Episode 118: Controversy

  • A new segment to kick off the show.
  • We discuss the impact of Equus coming to Broadway.
  • Will it be overtaken by fangirls?
  • How long can it run if HBP is released just two months later?
  • The Lexicon Lawsuit is making a lot of press and we respond.
  • Should the book hit store shelves or do WB and JKR have a point?
  • How other Potter books (including ours) on the market don’t compare.
  • We address some listener rebuttals, most of which focus on Dumbledore being gay.
  • Our views on Christianity are cleared up.
  • One listener asks us how to handle parents who are now considering banner the books from her.

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Running time: 1:14:39, 25.7 MB

Transcript 117

MuggleCast 117 Transcript

Show Intro

[Show music stars]

Mason: Hey there MuggleCast listeners! I am back to inform you of some excellent news. GoDaddy.com is having better deals than ever for only $3.59 a month for 12 months you can get GoDaddy.com’s economy package with 250 Gigs of bandwidth, 5 gigs of storage, and up to 500 e-mail accounts. You can get your own website up and running with success, and as usual, enter code MUGGLE, That’s M-U-G-G-L-E- when you check out save an additional 10% on any order. Some restrictions apply, see site for details. Get your piece of the internet at GoDaddy.com.

Andrew: Today’s MuggleNet podcast is brought to you by Borders. In May, thousands of Harry Potter fans descended upon New Orleans for the Phoenix Rising Conference. Borders was there to take in the sites and share a lively discussion of the series that has bewitched the world with some of Harry’s most dedicated fans. Listen in and watch the action yourself. Check our The Phoenix Rising, Borders Book Club discussion at BordersMedia.com/HarryPotter, or click on the Borders banner at the top of the MuggleNet page.

Ben: This weeks show is brought to you by Audible.com. The internets leading provider in spoken word entertainment. Get a free audio book download of your choice when you sign up today. Log on to Audible.com/MuggleCast today for details.

Micah: Because… [Ben impersonating Dumbledore] “it is our choices Harry” …this is MuggleCast Episode 117 for October 2th8, 2007.

[Show music continues to play]

Ben: [imitating Dumbledore] It is our choices Harry, far more than our sexuality that determines who we truly are.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Oh boy, oh boy. Dumbledore is gggggg-great.

[Laura and Eric laugh]

Laura: Well, that too.

Andrew: [whispers] Should we say it? Should we say it?

Laura: I don’t know. First the ‘B’ word, and now…

Andrew: Well, JKR said it, Andrew. JKR said it.

Ben: So, if Jo says it, it’s all right.

Laura: Yes.

Ben: Dumbledore’s gay. And I’m back, by the way.

[Everyone laughs]

Ben: In other news, Ben Schoen’s back on the show.

Laura: Dumbledore being gay pails in comparison to Ben coming back. Just so you all know.

Eric: There’s only one thing that presieve Ben coming back and thats Dumbledore being gay. So, we got that out of the way. Now Ben’s back.

[Laura laughs]

Ben: That’s what I was waiting on, actually. I was just waiting for some major thing, random shaking news. You know?

[Andrew laughs]

Ben: Then I decided…

Andrew: That’s what you’re all about.

Ben: Yep, shaking up the fandom. It’s what I do.

Andrew: Anyway, we’re going to be talking a lot about Dumbledore being gay. It’s a big revalation and we’ll all explain our reactions and a lot of people are excited to hear what we have to say
about it. We will be talking about that today. We’re going to be talking about…

Ben: Well, one quick thing, though. I think the funniest thing that’s come out of this Dumbledore gay thing, though, is on facebook today I saw a group called ‘Dumbledore’s Army: The New Gay/Straight Alliance’. I thought that was awesome.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Honestly, Ben.

Andrew: That’s great.

Ben: What?

Eric: No, nevermind. Nevermind.

Andrew: That is very good and so I’ve created a new website where I am taking a stand against this issue…

Ben: Dumbledoreisnotgay.com. [laughs]

Andrew: No, you ruined it! You ruined it! Also, my voice is slowly recovering . I’m Andrew Sims.

Ben: I’m Ben Schoen.

Eric: I’m Eric Scull.

Laura: I’m Laura Thompson.

Micah: And I’m Micah Tannenbaum.

[Show music continues to play]


Andrew: Micah Tannenbaum is in the MuggleCast news center with this past weeks top Harry Potter-Dumbledore-Is-Gay news stories.

Micah: All right, thanks Andrew. At her final tour stop in Ontario, Canada on Tuesday, JK Rowling received questions from the press concerning her revelation that Dumbledore was gay:

“The plot is what it is,” said Rowling. “(Dumbledore) did have, as I say, this rather tragic infatuation, but that was a key part of the ending of the story so there it is. Why would I put the key part of my ending of my story in Book 1?”

David Thewlis, the actor who plays Professor Lupin in the Harry Potter series recently did an interview while promoting his new book, The Late Hector Kipling in Toronto for the International Festival of Authors. One of the questions he answered was in response to the recent news concerning Dumbledore’s character, saying he initially believed Lupin to be gay due to initial conversations with Prisoner of Azkaban director Alfonso Cuaron.

The Harry Potter series picked up two prizes at the 2007 Scream Awards hosted by Spike TV. Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix won in the catergory of “Best Sequel” while actor Ralph Fiennes was named “Most Vile Villian” for his role as Lord Voldemort.

The awards were handed out on October 19th at the Greek Theatre in Los Angeles, California.

The Wiltshire Times had a report earlier this week from the first day of on-location filming for Half-Blood Prince, which is set to be released on November 21st, 2008. The scene involving Harry and Dumbledore going to visit Slughorn is the scene the crews are working on, and Dan Radcliffe is scheduled to be on set. Filming has continued throughout the week with various photos and reports emerging online. For the latest information be sure to check out MuggleNet.com.

Director Guillermo Del Toro recently had a chat with MTV about the Potter movies. In this new interview, he mentions that he had previously turned down Prisoner of Azkaban because the films were too “bright and happy and full of light.” But, after seeing the previous two adaptations, he has begun to reconsider the offer. “They seem to be getting eerie and darker… If they come back to me, I’ll think about it.” Del Toro is known for his work on Pan’s Labyrinth and the Hellboy series.

The French and German translations of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows were both released on Saturday. Hundreds of fans queued for hours to get their hands on the book, with large release parties being organized in several towns and cities.

Finally, according to HarryLatino.com, the DVD for Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix has been released in various Latin American countries including Chile. You can see video of the opening menu as well as individual screenshots by logging on to MuggleNet.com.

Remember the DVD of the fifth film will be released in the UK on November 12 and in the US on December 11.

That’s all the news on this October 28th, 2007 edition of MuggleCast. Back to the show.

Andrew: All right, thank you Micah.

Micah: You are welcome.

Initial Dumbledore Reaction

Andrew: You know, Micah, as our news anchor – as the man sitting in the MuggleCast News Studio. [strange noise] My mic just shook. Is that all of the news coming into the studio right now? I mean, that’s all everyone wants to know about. That’s all the media’s been covering, Dumbledore is gay.

Micah: Yeah. That’s what it’s all about. I mean, even from all the actors. David Thewlis and Tom Felton. That’s all anybody is talking about. Forget about Half-Blood Prince filming. Forget about awards and all that other crap. It’s all about Dumbledore.

Andrew: It’s hot gossip, I have to say.

Micah: I know, and it…

Ben: Well see, here’s what happened. The night that – Andrew was there. Andrew, you and Laura both were there when she said it.

Andrew: And Micah.

Laura: And Micah.

Ben: And Micah. Yeah, you three were there. And I’m sitting at home – Or actually, I’m in the car and I look down at my phone and I have a new text message and it’s from Andrew. And it says, “Dumbledore is gay. Jo said so.” [laughs] And I was just like, “What?”

[Andrew laughs]

Ben: I was like, “Are you serious?” And then a little bit later I was with Emerson. And he got a phone call from one of his friends at school. They’re like, “Is it true? Is it true?” And it was just like the night was crazy.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah [laughs] It’s amazing. Laura, Micah, and I – when we were sitting there and she said it. Well, let’s – I mean, we weren’t going to talk about this until later on, but I guess we have to now.

Laura: Yeah. [laughs]

Andrew: We’re just all a little excited. When we first heard it, [laughs] my mouth actually just dropped. And I just started applauding. I thought it was the funniest thing she could have said.

Laura: Yeah. It was fabulous.

Andrew: Ever. [laughs] Micah and Laura, what were your reactions?

Laura: I cheered. I thought it was great. Like, I remember everybody around me kind of gasped a little bit.

Andrew: Mhm.

Laura: And then it seemed like there was this simultaneous just roar of applause and cheering. It was really, really fantastic.

Micah: Yeah.

Laura: Everyone received it very well.

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: I was shocked. I really didn’t know how to react to that. Then, like both of you said, there was just this simultaneous applause after…

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: …a huge pause in the audience. But, I was shocked.

Laura: And there were a couple of guys who stood up in the audience, who were clearly very supportive of this. So…

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: I guess it’s quite liberating, too. Such as…

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: There’s this sort of, you know, iconic figure and character being homosexual. And it’s really good like that. That was really – I mean a lot of people are quite happy with it. As well. And I am, too. Just the openness that she approached it with. She wasn’t afraid to say it. She said it, she outted him.

Andrew: Jo actually said in an interview later on – actually at a press release in, press thing in Canada. Excuse me. That it actually inspired someone to come out right there at Carnegie Hall. So that was nice. Micah, was that you?

Micah: Yeah, yeah.

[Ben and Laura laugh]

Micah: I just stood up and went crazy. No.

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: No, no. That wasn’t me.

Ben: We’ll talk more about this later.

MuggleCast Down Under

Andrew: Yeah. We’ll spend another hour on it, I’m sure. But Eric, there were two big MuggleCast events going on in – somewhere that none of have been to before.

Eric: Right.

Andrew: Except you.

Eric: Yeah. And you guys should definitely come down. I was in both Sydney and…

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Melbourne, Australia. Come down under, you guys. I’m serious. It was actually two great shows…

Ben: It’s only like a 60-year flight to get there.

Eric: Yeah, it is a 60-year flight. Now it’s just about, I reckon, about 19 hours or so. So it’s not that bad. And you guys have been to London. Well, actually to London from the east coast is six hours. Anyway, look guys, the MuggleCast Down Under was a success. Both the events were freaking amazing. It was really great to see our Australian fans. And guys, I know you don’t realize this, but our Australian fans were quite competent. They were quite keen to talk about Harry Potter. They all had really interesting theories. It was all just really good stuff. So that’s my status report. The shows were quite successful. Thank you guys for contributing, especially Micah. Everbody on this show, right now, did contribute. But half of them were a little bit late on that front. So, we didn’t actually get to show you guys, Laura and Andrew. And actually, Micah, we showed your – because Micah did a segment, he did a news segment which was fantastic. We showed that at both events. But, then you three guys did a “Dumbledore is gay. Oh my god!” video afterwards, which didn’t make it into the show. But that’s okay, because that’s what we’re talking about now. Anyway, thank you guys for contributing footage. I really appreciated that. And also, right now the status is there will be video of both events. Especially the Sydney one. I wanted to talk to you, Andrew, about this. Because the Sydney video, there’s actually Journalism and Media students who are working on editing it. And they had this whole camera crew there, doing the thing. And they’re going to be editing. So I expect the video to be quite exciting. And I said this at Sydney, I think maybe we should do this as a video podcast, do you reckon? That could be possibly released on the feed?

Andrew: What non-linear video application are they using to edit this video?

Eric: Oh, I don’t know. What non-linear video application should they be using, Andrew?

Andrew: Final Cut Pro.

Eric: Really? Okay. I’ll put in a request for Final Cut Pro.

Andrew: But, anyway.

Eric: Anyway, so the only other thing is that the overall turnout of the people is actually – it was quite shocking. We had great shows. About 80 people showed up at either show. But, it was only half the people who we received RSVPs from.

Andrew: Tsk, tsk, Aussies.

Eric: Tsk, tsk, Aussies. Now everyone who did come out – and it’s possible, I mean, in Sydney there was – It was during exams and stuff. So, we don’t know exactly why, but people RSVPed and then didn’t show up. And it’s just created a teensy problem because we booked these big, big venues expecting more people than RSVP’d and we got half. So what happened, is just as a general rule of thumb, we didn’t sell enough t-shirts to cover the costs of the show. Basically. So, what we’re doing is, actually guys, the Sydney and the MuggleCast Down Under t-shirts are officially memorabilia. What we’re doing is we’re shipping them, we’re posting them. We have them on sale, all our remaining stock of MuggleCast t-shirts. If you didn’t get to make it to MuggleCast Down Under, but really wanted to and you’re still in Australia. And for whatever reason you RSVPed and couldn’t make it, we would really appreciate it if you still support the show and you can still get a cool MuggleCast Down Under t-shirt. And we post that to you. So, details will be on MuggleCast.com about that. It’s just a little, teensy problem. But if you still want to support the show, lots of people – I mean, now you’ll see pictures on the Facebooks and everything. There’s all sorts of albums. It was a really good event. And the fan response just shows, guys, that you guys should come down to Aussieville because that’s where it’s all going on. There were a lot of good stuff.

Andrew: Well, I guess we have to roll a few more GoDaddy ads before we do that. That’s pretty expensive.

Eric: Hmmm. Well, and understandable, but it was great fun, and I want to just thank everybody at HP Events Australia for that. That was really good. That was good fun.

Andrew: All right, we’re going to jump straight into news discussion now. That’s basically all this show is going to be about because JK Rowling revealed quite the good amount of information at her final US reading in New York City at Carnegie Hall on—oh, what was the date?

Laura: October 19th.

Andrew: It was October 20th? 19th? Was it Friday night?

Laura: Yup.

Order of the Phoenix DVD

Andrew: Oh. Okay. But first I want to get to two news items I thought were worth discussing. The first one, and this happened a couple weeks ago, Order of the Phoenix to offer digital download right on the DVD. So basically, you’ll be able to take the movie file on the DVD – I assume it will be separate from the actual file that you’re watching in your DVD player. You’re going to be able to take that and specifically format it for your Zune – like anyone has one of those – and iPod. And iPhone and iPod Touch. So you’ll be able to watch these on your portable media player for no extra cost, which is really cool, all you have to do is buy the DVD and then you can watch it on the go. Anyone else think that’s cool, or am I just really nerdy?

Ben: That is awesome.

Laura: That’s pretty sweet. No, no, that’s really cool, if you actually can afford an iPhone or an iPod Touch.

Andrew: Santa’s coming, Laura. Santa’s coming.

[Ben laughs]

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: I don’t know, guys, what do you think? Because this is – portable DVD – they’re experimenting, which is good. I like the idea that they’re experimenting with portable media and video and format and stuff, so I really don’t know, I don’t know what to think.

Andrew: Well, I think it’s good. There’s the piracy thing, of course, there’s a question of piracy, but I don’t know how digitally protected it could be. But we’ll see when it comes out. It was just an interesting story.

Eric: Well, didn’t they hack the iPhone like three hours after its arrival?

Andrew: Yeah, but that has nothing to do with movie files.

Eric: Well, it can’t be much more…

Andrew: That was just so you could put applications and stuff on it, like my iPhone.

Eric: Ahhh. [laughs]

Half-Blood Prince Filming

Andrew: And then another story, on location Half-Blood Prince filming has commenced, so basically filming is now underway. Filming occurred in Lacock, somewhere in England.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Oh, grow up. Grow up.

Micah: Oh you knew that was coming.

Andrew: No, Lacock.

Ben: Was Dumbledore present in Lacock?

Andrew: Dumbledore was present, and Michael Gambon was actually present in Lacock. He was there to film the scene where he is arriving with Harry to go meet with Slughorn.

Ben: [condescending tone] Oh, no, I can’t even stand his relationship – I can’t even look at his relationship with Harry in the same way anymore.

Andrew: I know. We’ll get to that too. Moving on.

Eric: Yeah, we will, actually.

Andrew: They’ve been filming there for a couple days. They plan on filming from – it’s a heavy, heavy filming schedule. It’s like from 5 PM to 5 AM every day until Saturday night. So they’re going to be busy there. Of course all the neighbors there are very excited because they’re filming Harry Potter in their area, so that’s all very exciting, and more filming reports will be coming out frequently now that filming is seriously underway. At least on location filming. We usually don’t get many set reports. Hopefully, we’re going to be invited to the set again. I can’t wait to go. [pause] Nobody was listening. The joke was that I can’t wait to go again. Forget you guys.

Laura: Oh, well, no, no, I figured that’s what would happen, so it just…

Micah: Yeah.

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: I didn’t even think about it.

Carnegie Hall Reading

Andrew: Oh, well if I have your blessing now, then I’m there. Thank you. Makes things a lot easier. Okay, now let’s move on to the events that occurred at Carnegie Hall. We’re going to get to the “Dumbledore is gay” later. We’ll save that for last because there’s so much to talk about. But Laura and Micah, while we were there, I have to say Jo was in a very peppy mood. She was in a very good mood, it seems.

Laura: Yeah, she really was. She’s very enthusiastic.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: Like, when you compare this reading to the reading at Radio City Music Hall, this just easily trumped it, I thought.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah.

Laura: She was just very enthusiastic and very into the reading. For those of you who don’t know, she read from the part right after Ron came back and where Hermione essentially flipped out on him, and it was great. Her imitation of Hermione ticked off was just spot on. It was really, really good.

Andrew: Right, yeah. And I think the thing with Radio City was that she was still writing the book. With this reading there was a lot less pressure.

Laura: Yeah, I think so too.

Andrew: Although I don’t understand how you can be so happy at your reading when you know you have 2,000 books to sign in a matter of minutes.

Micah: I don’t know, I thought she felt a lot more comfortable with the adult audience. She seemed really happy to be talking to an audience that was comprised more of adults than children. I could really – that kind of sense that she gave off early on when you said that she was feeling just into the whole thing a little bit more than we had seen her in any other place.

Andrew: Right.

Laura: Yeah, well…

Eric: Do you reckon that’s from talking to so many schools before hand, she was ready to talk to adults?

Micah: She was sick of all the kids?

Andrew: [laughs] No.

Eric: No, no, I’m asking.

Andrew: There were quite a few kids there, I mean don’t get us wrong. The majority was kids.

Laura: But didn’t – yeah.

Ben: But I think there’s so many factors that would play into her mood during the reading. I mean, what if for example when she was going to Radio City she stubbed her toe before she went on stage. You know what I mean?

Laura: Oh, and I’m not saying that that was bad.

Ben: You really can’t say that Radio City – I mean, sure, she may have been happier and the one at Carnegie Hall may have been more pepped up, but it could have a lot to do with, you know, she’s finished the books now, a lot of the pressure’s off her like Andrew said.

Andrew: Oh, yeah.

Ben: But I don’t think it necessarily – I mean, there’s so many factors that anything we say is just speculation, but that’s what we do. [laughs]

Andrew: Well, yeah. Don’t get us wrong. We’re not trying to analyze it, we’re just saying she was in a good mood.

Laura: Yeah, definitely.

Eric: Which is good, which is good.

Laura: I think a lot of it had to do with her being able to address more adult issues, too.

Micah: Right.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: I mean, kind of leading into some of the stuff that she talked about, we got an answer about Aberforth and those goats.

Andrew: Yes.

Eric: Which she filtered for kids.

Andrew: She did filter it for kids, because it was what? An eight year old asking the question?

Laura: Yeah.

Micah: [laughs] Which we can talk about that in a little bit, too, because I don’t know how that girl came up with that question.

Andrew: Yeah. We have all the questions here.

[Eric laughs]

Question: Did Neville Find Love?

Andrew: We’ll go through them in the order that they were asked, except for the Dumbledore one, we’ll save for last. So, the first one was about Neville and if he had found love. And Jo said that he actually ended up marrying the landlady from the Leaky Cauldron, which happened to be Hannah Abbott, which sounds like a good match, and living above the Leaky Cauldron would have impressed his students at Hogwarts, so that’s why he was living there. And then married Hannah Abbott, so good for him.

Laura: That’s happy.

Eric: Hmmm… Yeah the… Harry sort of blows up his aunt and that gets him a room above the Leaky Cauldron and Neville has to marry the landlady to get a room above the Leaky Cauldron.

Micah: Yeah.

Question: Why Molly Killed Bellatrix?

Andrew: The next question, which I thought was a very good question, it’s one of those questions we were like dying, well I personally was dying to hear the answer to. Interestingly though, still no answer about the veil. But anyway, someone asked her why she chose Molly to kill Bellatrix and she wanted to, this I think was basically our thinking anyway, she wanted to show that Molly was a really talented witch even though she spent most of her time in the kitchen, so she sort of comes out of nowhere and attacks. And then she also wanted to compare the obsession Bellatrix had with Voldemort to Molly’s maternal love for her children. So that was very fitting.

Laura: Yeah, I liked it a lot.

Andrew: It was very nice.

Laura: I thought that was good because I know even I felt, like before the book came out that I wanted Neville to finish Bellatrix off, but just thinking about her answer and thinking about the way she did it in the book, I thought it was perfect.

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: And she did address the whole Neville side of it too, she said…

Laura: Yeah.

Micah: …she knew that a lot of people figured that it was going to be Neville because of the torturing of his parents but she decided to go with Molly instead.

Question: What if Arthur Had Died in Order of the Phoenix?

Andrew: Right. So the next question she was asked referred to what would have happened if Arthur had died in Order of the Phoenix, which was also a very good question because she revealed at one of her, I think it was the online chat session a while ago, after Deathly Hallows came out, she revealed that Arthur was one of the characters that got the reprieve, only it was actually in Book 5. So Jo said that it would’ve changed Books 5, 6, and 7 and that Ron’s character would have lost his sense of humor and it would’ve taken away Harry’s refuge at the Weasley home. And she also mentioned that Ron’s humor stemmed from insecurities and immaturity and that he was the last to become an adult by facing his fears in the last book. So, that was also a very good question.

Eric: Hmmm. Yeah that is interesting. Though, she doesn’t say though does she if – I know you said she didn’t answer the veil thing – but if Arthur Weasley died in Book 5 would Sirius still have at the end?

Laura: No, she didn’t say anything about that.

Eric: Oh okay, cool, cool, cool. Just checking.

Micah: Well, didn’t she say something about, and I could be wrong, killing off two of his father figures in one book wouldn’t have been a good idea?

Laura: I don’t remember…

Micah: You guys remember that at all?

Laura: …it specifically.

Andrew: I don’t remember that either.

Micah: Okay. I’m making it up. Anyway…

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: I thought I heard something about that, but maybe not.

Question: What is with Aberforth’s Goat?

Andrew: All right well, Micah, the next question really got you excited.

Laura: [laughs] What?

Andrew: An eight-year-old girl named Mia came up to and asked about Aberforth’s goat, and Jo asked her age and said that just for her – she said at the very end this answer was just for you, [laughs] which was very funny. So she asked about Aberforth’s goat and Jo said that the goats were easy to keep clean and that they had curly horns.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: And the audience basically just exploded at that because it was funny on multiple levels. I guess we won’t go into it but I think most mature listeners to our program will get what she’s trying to say. [whispering] Aberforth had a very special fascination with goats. We’ll just leave it at that.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Wait. Aberforth liked goats?

Andrew: Yes.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: He did.

Micah: They have quite the family.

Eric: What?

Micah: You know that?

Andrew: Dumbledore…

Eric: That’s not cannon.

Andrew: …or Micah was standing…

Eric: That’s not cannon at all.

Andrew: …standing up and applauding for that.

Micah: I was. That question – I was standing up. It was a little awkward, but you know?

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: I think this whole Aberforth and the goat thing is controversial. Why isn’t that getting just as much attention as the Dumbledore thing?

Andrew: Because nobody cares about Aberforth. He’s a secondary character and the goat…

Ben: Because we’ll get to that later why I – why personally why I think that Dumbledore is getting a lot more attention.

Andrew: Is it going to be a “give me a butterbeer?”

Micah: Should be.

Ben: Maybe an impromptu one. [laughs]

Andrew: Impromptu one.

Ben: Yeah, I think Andy’s article…

Eric: As opposed to planned…

Ben: ..was a “give me a butterbeer.”

Eric: Do you actually plan these butterbeer things?

Question: How did Ron know Parseltongue?

Andrew: It was. You should just read that and make it your own. So the next question was the Dumbledore question, we’ll get to that later like I said. And then she was asked about Parseltongue. And I think the question – questioner said to her, you know, how could Ron learn it so quickly and Jo answered that Ron had mastered one sound but it wouldn’t be a language someone could learn. Which is another thing…

Ben: I think that sounds so bogus though.

Andrew: It really does. It really does.

Ben: How can Ron master a sound? You know what I mean? I thought that…

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: How can he master the sound that means open? You know what I mean? How would he get up there…

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: How would he get up there and know what open was?

Laura: He heard Harry say it in the second book though didn’t he?

Eric: Oh and he was paying so much damn attention to the sounds he was making.

Ben: [laughs] Yeah.

Eric: The sound it makes – the sound of that…

Ben: And the way…

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Because he’s thinking at that moment when he’s trying to rescue his sister and is about to encounter the…

Laura: Yeah, but…

Eric: …giant snake skin. Oh I should remember this…

Laura: Haven’t we seen that…

Eric: …in case I ever need to come back down here.

Ben: [laughs] Yeah.

Laura: Haven’t we seen that he has like a really good…

Eric: A photographic memory?

Laura: No. Like, haven’t we seen that he like has kind of a talent with voices? Like at one point he mimics… Who is it?

Ben: I know, but what I’m saying…

Laura: Gosh I can’t remember. I feel like he mimics a character at one point.

Ben: I know but okay…

Laura: And I’m not saying it’s valid justification, I’m just saying that she did kind of lead up to it.

Ben: Okay. Not really because here’s what the argument I’m making is that going up there – and the word open – think about how many words there are in the English dictionary. Okay? There’s thousands and millions of words. If in Parseltongue there has to be something equivalent to each word, in some way whether it’s, like the phrasing may be different or whatever, but how would he get up there an just know to randomly hiss? Like, you know what I mean like, how would he know to do open because there’s so many things, there’s so many words. Like if I didn’t know a language, if I didn’t know Spanish, and I got up and I needed to say “open” in Spanish, I wouldn’t know what to do. I would have no idea what to do. You know what I mean?

Eric: Oh wait, Ben. Are you…

Ben: Is this making sense?

Eric: Are you debating that Ron – sorry, are you arguing that Ron shouldn’t have known what or shouldn’t have listened to what Harry said and been able to reproduce it accurately? Or are you saying that Harry shouldn’t have been able to open the chamber in Book 2 by just saying, “open”? Do you think he should have said instead like, “give me cheesy puffs or something”? And you know…

Ben: No, I’m saying Ron, Ron shouldn’t have been able to open the chamber.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Oh well, yeah.

Ben: Because he didn’t – that one sound – I don’t care if he heard Harry say it because like you said he was in the moment he wasn’t actually going to remember what that sounded like.

Eric: Oh, no, right. No, I get exactly what you’re saying, yeah. You’re right and I mean how much diversity – I mean you’ve probably got to use dialect. It’s just that, I feel like that was a weak point, and JKR just wanted to move on with it.

Ben: Yeah.

Eric: But I think that’s an obvious flaw in Book 7.

Ben: Let’s move on, too.

Question: What was in Dumbledore’s Letter in Book 1?

Andrew: Yeah. Next question was, and these are really a great set of questions, what was in Dumbledore’s letter to the Dursley’s in Book 1. Jo responded by saying that Petinua had wanted to go to Hogwarts, and by taking in Harry, she was taking in a part of the world that she never participated in. Because, like I just said, that we’d found out that Petunia wanted to go to Hogwarts. Which I guess is a pretty nice explanation. Better than some.

Ben: That is a good explanation, I think.

Eric: I liked it, yeah.

Ben: I mean, that makes sense to what she would say.

Andrew: Right.

Ben: To what Harry would say. I mean, excuse me, what Dumbledore would have said to Petunia. Sorry. [laughs].

Eric: Yeah, so I’m confused guys, just because – I think this is a great answer, but are you sure that Dumbledore said that Petunia couldn’t go to Hogwarts? Because I think I remember him saying she could if she wanted to, even though she’s a muggle? Because I honestly thought somewhere in the book when it was talking about that, that he had said she could, that he would make some kind of strange allowance. Because I know normally muggles can’t see Hogwarts. I think somewhere in the book, didn’t it say he could make an allowance for her, even though muggles can’t normally see Hogwarts and all that stuff?

Laura: I don’t think that he said that, I think that Lily was trying to give Petunia hope.

Andrew: Ahhh. Yeah.

Laura: Like she said something along the lines of maybe he would consider it, or something along those lines.

Eric: Oh.

Micah: Yeah.

Laura: You know, maybe if you appealed to him he might, but I don’t think Dumbledore said that.

Eric: Okay, because I thought that he did, but then Petunia for some reason turned it down a little bit.

Laura: No.

Eric: Because I was…

Laura: No. Because he wrote her and told her “no,” like she wrote him and then…

Ben: I think if there’s a any wizard that would let a muggle into Hogwarts, it would be Dumbledore though.

Laura: Oh yeah, definitely.

Eric: But he did write a letter to Petunia, didn’t he?

Ben: You know what I mean? Just because of like, how tolerant he is.

Eric: Yeah. No, I agree.

Ben: Yeah.

Eric: Hmmm.

Question: Why did the Basilisk Fang not kill the Horcrux in Harry?

Andrew: Another question, was a question that a lot of fans had ended up figuring out anyway. It was in reference to the Basilisk, and why did it not kill Voldemort’s soul in Harry. Rowling stated that “Harry was not destroyed beyond repair because Fawkes was there to heal him, but later conveniently absent when other horcruxes were destroyed.” So that was another easy question to address.

Question: Why didn’t Harry consult Dumbledore’s Portrait?

Eric: Okay so, Jo replied, when asked about Dumbledore and why Harry didn’t consult Dumbledore’s portrait, assuming he was at Hogwarts enough to, she listed three options which I think cover it. “One, the portrait was not available as it was at Hogwarts, two, Dumbledore didn’t want to tempt Harry with the Hallows, but wanted him to learn of them slowly due to Harry’s flaws, and that three, it was too easy and there wouldn’t have been much of a plot if Harry just spoke to Dumbledore’s portrait.” So.

Andrew: Exactly.

Eric: What was this reaction in the guys? Because I wasn’t there, obviously.

Andrew: Well, answer three was met with a lot of applause, wasn’t it?

Laura: Yeah, it made people laugh.

Andrew: People were like, yeah Jo, duh!

Eric: [laughs] Yeah. And this was a good point though.

Andrew: Good point Jo!

Eric: There were so many questions after the Dumbledore one, that it just seems to awkward that anything would have continued, you know, because sort of the rest of the world stopped ticking for a little bit.

Andrew: Right, right. Well, let’s…

Eric: You know, there wasn’t even a mysterious ticking noise. It was just sort of, the world stopped ticking.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Yeah. Well lets move on, let’s move on as we inch closer to the big reveal.

[Ben laughs]

Eric: Oooh!

Question: Were the Death Eaters based on the Nazis?

Andrew: So someone asked a very intelligent question, another thing we’ve talked about on the show before. Someone wanted to try to confirm with Jo that the Death Eaters were based on the Nazis. And Jo answered by saying that “it was a conscious decision and people will die, and that you shouldn’t believe what your government or newspapers tell you” which was also met with applause.

Laura: Oh yeah.

Andrew: So, you know, she said, well what do you think “conscious decision” meant? Like, just that she felt…

Ben: It just means that she meant to draw that parallel.

Andrew: Oh, okay.

Laura: And she said that she wasn’t only trying to draw a parallel specifically to the Nazis, that she, like you said, was trying to draw a parallel between governments and corruption in general.

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: Right.

Laura: It just so happens that, you know, there’s a strong correlation there with the Nazis.

Micah: When she said that you shouldn’t believe what your government or newspapers tell you, she said something else, I can’t remember exactly what it was, but she took a little shot at possibly someone who is in power right now.

Laura: Yeah, I remember specifically what she said too. She was, “like certain political regimes we all know and love.” But she said it extremely sarcastic.

[Andrew and Micah laughs]

And at that point, I just cheered. I thought that was great

Micah: Yeah, I stood up for that too.

Laura: Send me hate mail if you want, I don’t care.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: Goats and politics.

Andrew: Micah actually had pom poms, and whenever something came out that was really exciting to him, he would just swing them around. It was pretty funny.

[Ben laughs]

Eric: Oh god. I can see that on YouTube now.

Micah: Goats and politics. That’s what I cheered for.

Question: How did it feel to finish Book 1 compared to Book 7?

Andrew: Someone asked Jo, “how does it compare, finishing the first book compared to finishing the writing of the seventh book?” and she said that it actually felt the same, it felt very similar, and her husband, who was in attendance, heated her for a few weeks after Book 7 was finished because she was “unbearable to live with” I guess just being very emo. If you will. Because, you know, the book is over.

Ben: Imagine how weird that would be though, after how much time you’ve put into it…

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: All the things you’ve done, all the money you’ve made. [laughs]

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: You know, just to sit back and thing wow, it’s done.

Extra Questions

Andrew: It’s done. Yeah. And let’s see, then oh guys, this was the big surprise of the night. It was actually the disappointment of the night. Jo had answered 12 questions at that point, and then a voice came over the speaker system in the place, and it was a loud booming voice, and he pretended to be God, and Jo played around with him like, oh am I in trouble? Or something like that.

[Eric laughs]

Laura, Micah, do you remember what she said?

Laura: She said, “and they say I don’t believe in you.”

Andrew: [laughs] Oh yeah.

Eric: [laughs] I didn’t hear about that. I’m sorry!

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: And everyone was like oh, what’s the big surprise? They were like, the guy was like “we have a surprise!” and this guy comes out, nobody knows who he is, he’s just some schmuck from Scholastic who was trying to entertain the crowd while the book signing was occurring. But anyway, he comes out and is like “big surprise, Jo is going to answer more questions for everyone!” Which was good. We got what, three more questions? Or four more questions.

Laura: Yeah.

Question: Does Draco owe Harry a life debt?

Andrew: So the first question was if Malfoy owed Harry a life debt, and Jo stated that “there was no magical tie between the two, but Malfoy had to be forever grateful to Harry for saving his life after all.” It’s sort of like the thing that always happens with the bad guy where the good guy saves the bad guy’s life and then the bad guy doesn’t really owe him anything, but the bad guy just always has to admit, yeah you did save my life, that’s true.

Eric: And sort of backs off – the whole prejudice thing.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah.

Bad M.C. and Panting Lady

Andrew: Right. And then the next question was from the very top of Carnegie Hall, this girl had to book it all the way down to the bottom.

Laura: Oh, yeah. That was hilarious.

Andrew: And, you know, this guy who was hosting was a good M.C. – no wait he was terrible…

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: …Worst host in the world. Way to go Scholastic.

Eric: You guys should have me her.

Andrew: Yeah we should have, quick pre-show.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: It did take her like two hours to come down so…

[Ben laughs]

Andrew: …it would have been good filler. But…

Ben: “The Pre-show”.

Andrew: “The Pre-show”

Ben: Still looking for that tape by the way.

Andrew: Yeah. So, this guy M.C.-ing is waiting for this chick to come down and the whole time I am thinking “Why not call someone else up?”

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: The next person was right in the front row anyway. She could have taken two steps to the microphone. But, like I said we had to wait for this, anyway whatever, its all said and done now, but…

[Eric laughs]

Ben: Yeah. I mean I am sure that is what you are thinking about, gosh.

Laura: That was what I was thinking.

Ben: “I have to wait a whole two minutes for her to come down.

Laura: Well, no…

Andrew: That is what I was, no seriously…

Laura: That had to have been embarrassing for her too.

Andrew: I was sitting there thinking, “Call someone else up”.

Laura: Because when she got there she was panting and heaving for breath and like, trying to ask her a question I would have been…

Eric: And then she falls over and dies. [laughs]

Laura: and she was up on a big screen too so you can see her like, gasping for air.

Ben: Well, maybe the M.C. is just a jerk. You know what I mean?

Andrew: Maybe, yeah he was. He was just a bad M.C.

Ben: Okay, almost like, a quick question. Laura, how did you Andrew, and Micah get into this thing? That is what I am wondering.

Andrew: Well, we will get to that at the end.

Ben: All right.

MuggleCast 117 Transcript (continued)

Question: Would Snape’s Portrait be hung at Hogwarts?

Andrew: We will thank those who let us in. All right so the next question, the last question of the night besides the Dumbledore question, referred to Snape’s portraits and Rowling answered that Harry would have insisted that it would be hung in the Headmaster’s office at Hogwarts but that he would probably have not visited it to converse with Snape. And Jo still surprised when she said that fans are torn about Snape, who is a complicated character and stated that Snape was bitter, vindictive and mean and everyone, once Jo revealed that Harry would have insisted that Snape’s portrait be hung in the office I think there was a collective, “Awww!”

Question: What did James, Lily, Sirius and Lupin do for work?

Micah: Did we answer these two questions?

Eric: Yeah, okay Donna, the one who, and I can not make fun of her because I have not seen her and I would not make fun of her so, she just says “What were the occupations of James, Lily, Sirius, and Lupin, after they graduated Hogwarts?” and actually I can make fun of Jo’s response because she just basically says, Lupin was unemployable, because he is a werewolf, which does not leave any hope for any fan fiction. You know, werewolves, they never get jobs so them as a class they are just diminished. And also everyone else was a bit of a slacker. They never had to be employed because James was rich. They also worked full time for the Order. Which I suppose is a respectable job in the after fact because there was a war going on at the time. So, I will not make fun, but I do think it would have been fun to see them suitable for other jobs. Like, ask any of them…

Micah: But, is that a sufficient answer though? I mean…

Eric: Yeah, it is, it is sufficient. Well, I mean are you saying it might not be? Because, like they work for the Order?

Micah: Well, yeah like wasn’t there a lot of talk about Lily’s job being important?

Laura: Yeah. There was.

Eric: Oh, oh, right.

Micah: She’s just a bum.

Laura: I was convinced that she was either a Seer or she worked in the Department of Mysteries or something crazy like that. And then we find out that she didn’t. [laughs]

Eric: Yeah, people thought about that.

Micah: So basically James was her sugar daddy?

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: Well, love, money, [sighs] yeah. [sings] “I ain’t saying she’s a gold digger.” [laughs] Okay.

Andrew: [laughs unenthusiastically] Yeah.

Laura: Eric, no. [laughs]

Andrew and

Eric: [singing] “I ain’t saying she’s a gold digger.”

Eric: [continues singing] “She aint messing with no broke, broke…”

Ben: How about [sings] “Soulja Boy…”

Laura: Is it me or is everybody’s school is doing that dance? Everyone is doing that dance.

Ben: Ummm, actually the only person I have seen do it is Emerson and I didn’t think it was funny at all.

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: It is ridiculous everyone I know is doing that dance and I just stand there and watch them like “why?” I would never in my life, but anyway.

Andrew: I do not even know what that is. All I know is the moves in Hairspray.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Anyway, I…

Laura: Speaking of which… [laughs]

Dumbledore’s Sexuality

Andrew: And now for a complete change in subject Dumbledore is [high pitch] gay! You see my voice…

Ben: Wow.

Andrew: I still have my high voice back. Did you guys hear about this? Dumbledore, it was revealed by J.K. Rowling at this Carnegie Hall book reading, Dumbledore is gay. This girl came up and said “What about Dumbledore’s love life? Where has it been? What girl was he hooking up with?’ and she revealed “Well, I always pictured Dumbledore as being gay. And that, it did not sink in for me at first because it did not feel like a definitive answer because she said “I always pictured as Dumbledore as being gay” like, that is what she said right?

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: Is that all she said?

Andrew: “I always saw as Dumbledore being gay”

Laura: Yeah, but then she said that he was in love with Grindelwald. So…

Micah: Yeah. Well, when I first heard this I thought it was going along the lines of, “Well, I always saw Dumbledore,” and then I thought I was going to hear a “with professor so and so”, like “with Professor McGonagall” you know? And, I do not know, I was really shocked. I did not expect to hear that.

Ben: I do not know. But see, I woke up I was not – the news did not change much.

Laura: Yeah.

Ben: You know what I mean? I did not really care because; okay for example, I got this e-mail here from someone who sent it in. It was a 45-year old from Lake Whiley, South Carolina, I’ll leave the name out of this, it said:

“I know I have no way of relaying this message to the author herself but maybe you can. I know you often have opportunities to discuss certain issues with her. I am a reasonably tolerant person with the tenant of live and let live, but with her announcement with Dumbledore “coming out of the closet,” that just ruined the whole thing for me. Yuck. That was a really stupid move on her part.”

[Everyone laughs sarcastically]

Ben: “It would have been better if he had an unrequited love for Minerva or Bethilda, or someone we had not have met yet.”

Eric: Better for your agenda.

Ben: “I will never read the books in the same light ever again and I have probably never have been so disappointed in anyone in my whole life.”

[sigh] That is pretty sad.

Eric: All right.

Ben: “I will have to try and have to put this out of my mind and pretend she never said this in order for me to read the books again. If you can, please relay my comments I am definitely sure that I am not the only one who feels this way and I am sure that it is going to jump up and slap her in the face at some time.”

Andrew: Oh, my god.

Eric: Oh, it won’t slap her in the face.

Ben: “Most sincerely yours.”

Eric: Okay you would get ignorant fans sending this in, e-mails okay?

Ben: Okay, but see, what I am saying is that I just do not understand how anyone can actually react this way.

Laura: No.

Ben: It is an issue that, is is really deep in our society and I think it has gotten better over the years.

Andrew: Definitely.

Ben: Gay, homosexuality in America has become a lot more tolerated, but at the same time you still have those people who have the mentality of a jock, in high school who thinks “Oh my gosh, someone is gay, you know?” You know, “Loser.”

Eric: Yeah.

Ben: …you know, that is the first thing that comes to my mind. How could they ever be like that you know?

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: And I still don’t see how anyone can really criticize, because they weren’t Dumbledore. They didn’t grow up in the same circumstances he did. They didn’t have the infatuation with Grindelwald. They just didn’t know, you know? And they didn’t – I don’t know. I just think…

Eric: And being 150 years old, nobody could have sort of grown up with him.

Ben: No, you know what I mean though.

Laura: It’s not even that. Does him being gay, does it change anything?

Andrew: No.

Laura: Does it change his wisdom and all the good things he did? No! It doesn’t.

Eric: No. Okay, the whole thing is, and my initial problem when I heard it, my initial fear was oh great, because the previous Mugglecast Episode, 116, “Pig for Slaughter,” we were thinking well, I tried to raise some issues against Dumbledore. I tried to say maybe he is not so great. I tried to say that maybe he is not the greatest hero of all time.

Andrew: Yeah…

Eric: So, I kind of made a case type thing and then all of the sudden he is gay, and that is such a big issue in history and in current culture and society, I thought, oh great! Whereas I wanted to point him out as a flawed character, now that he actually is gay, anything that I might have said is now heald for the case against Dumbledore, which certain homophobic people might turn against and say, “Oh you know he is weak and he is stupid and he’s gay.” So…

Micah: Right.

Eric: So, we shouldn’t read the Harry Potter books. Also, I know several people who come from fundamentally Christian families who that upset and whose parents gave them another reason to hate Harry, and I’m not saying that Jo shouldn’t have mentioned it, but I am saying that it was quite sensitive that she did mention it. Maybe it should have been treated a little bit more sensitively, I think, because of the uproar.

Laura: I don’t think so. I completely disagree.

Eric: Because of how much, how large the fan base is.

Ben: Okay, but do you think, do you really think, do you honestly think that Jo has always seen Dumbledore as being gay, or do you think that she saw after the fact, that “Hey, now that I have sold all my books…”

[Andrew laughs]

Ben: “…now that I have done all these things, I can come out with a statement for something that I believe in?” You know, obvoiusly, I bet she’s a supporter of gay rights.

Eric: Oh, of course.

Ben: Yeah, and maybe she is coming out and saying this, becuase she wants to take someone in a powerful position, someone who is regarded as “the greatest wizard of all time,” you know, and he is gay. You know what I mean?

Andrew: Yeah, It’s a great thing to – I agree with what you are saying.

Laura: I don’t know. I don’t think that…

Ben: I support her in what she has done.

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: I give her the thumbs up.

Andrew: I am glad that you brought this email up, because I was trying to find a e-mail that was a negative response – was this sent to your personal e-mail address?

Ben: Yeah. I was.

Andrew: Oh, okay. I was looking through the mugglecast at staff, and I couldn’t find anyone giving a negative opinion, which was good.

Ben: And someone else sent me an e-mail saying “a Christian response to homosexuality.”

Laura: Oh, yeah. I saw that.

Andrew: Yes, we all got that

Ben: Really? Okay.

Laura: Ohhhh…

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: And there was just line after line of quoting the Bible…

Laura: Of crap!

Ben: …and quoting all these things, and it’s just…

Eric: Yeah, look…

Ben: I am not saying Christians are right, Christians are wrong.

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: I am not saying anything like that, but what I am saying is, you have got to face the facts. Not everybody is a Christian, and for a Christian to say that you should have to, or that everyone should have to follow what I believe, and that because I say homosexuality is wrong, then it is wrong, that’s just even more closed minded.

Eric: And religions are that way, but I just wanted to draw a distinction. You asked, “How does that effect how he taught Harry?” That is the real question and the real answer is, I don’t think it does.

Andrew: No, of course not.

Eric: And the whole, the whole thing behind it – and there is a clinical reason behind it too. There is quite a differece. There is quite a difference between homosexuality, being a gay man, and liking or corrupting little boys.

Andrew: Oh yeah. [laughs] And come on, Eric. You are pushing it now. We know that.

Laura: No, no, no. That is a little… Yeah.

Ben: But Eric is right though, when he is saying that is what the reaction has been from people. They say things like, “I can never see his relationship with Harry the same.”

Andrew: Yeah, which is “BS”.

Ben: That is the equivalent of saying that if in the books, Dumbledore had a really close relationship with Hermione, that that is a bad thing, because if he was straight. If he was straight and he had a relationship with a younger female, where he taught Hermione a lot, that it was a bad thing. Just because someone is gay, doesn’t automatically mean they are a pedophile. If someone is straight, it doesn’t mean – you know what I mean?

Eric: No. Pedophilia and homosexuality, yeah.

Ben: People just try to make that association, and it is just stigmatised in our society is all it is, and to be honest with you, it annoyes me that it was a big deal, because the morning – day after J.K. ROwling announced this, the next morning, Emerson, I’m living at his house now. He gets a phone call from Fox News, Geraldo wants Emerson to be on to talk about this.

[Eric sighs]

Laura: Of course.

Ben: I am all for publicity for MuggleNet, but at the same time the first thought that came to my mind was, “Why is everyone making such a big deal out of this?”

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: Why does this change anything? Why does this a big deal, but I guess some people out there aren’t as tolerant.

Andrew: Yeah, I’ll tell you what…

Laura: Well, to be perfectly honest, what really annoys me – I am sorry to cut you off Andrew, but…

Andrew: It’s okay.

Laura: If you will remember, when we were in the City after that reading, every time we got in a cab and you put the radio on…

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]

Laura: All you could hear was, “Author J.K. Rowling says Albus Dumbledore is gay.”

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: Okay. Nevermind that there are fires in California and people dying all over the world…

Andrew: Ugh.

Laura: … but who cares, because Dumbledore is gay.

Micah: Right.

Laura: And that really bothered me alot.

Micah: The thing was, I told Andrew that this too, I had three people come up to me on Monday morning…

Laura: Oh my god.

Micah: …and ask me what is up with this? What is going on? Is this ligitimate? Is she serious? And…

Laura: Everyone here is saying the same thing.

Micah: What I want to say about this though is that it is a perfectly legitimate answer to the question that was asked by this girl.

Andrew: Right, exactly.

Micah: People are thinking that she just stood up and made this proclamation to the audience, which she didn’t do!

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]

[Eric laughs]

Micah: She asked a perfectly legitimate question, and she gave a perfectly legitimate answer, and she explained that answer to.

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: I don’t understand what the big deal is about that.

Andrew: And it was a very direct question too, and she wasn’t trying to – at the beginning of the day she wasn’t thinking, okay somehow today I have got to get into the question and answer that Dumbledore is gay. It was a very straight, direct question, “What about Dumbledore’s love life?” What is she going to do? Lie? Just be like, “Eh, it was all right.”

Laura: That is what she said.

Andrew: The fans want this information.

Eric: There was another further clarification that she made in the news a few days later, and she said that she thinks that kids will see that relationship in Book 7 with the writing letter between Dumbledore and Grindelwald, that kids will see it as a friendship and more sensitive adults will see it as an infatuation.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: And that is what she said. So, I don’t know how she clarified it in the event I thought maybe you guys could…

Andrew: I mean, but no – I mean, all she said after our reaction, the audience reaction, was, “Oh, if I knew that you were going to take it that tremendously I would have told you sooner.” So, I mean, I think she has – going back to what Ben said a little bit ago, I think she has had this in her head from the beginning. I think she said in an interview. She was like, she was getting mad at the press in Canada because that’s all they wanted to talk about, and I think she said, “Well, if I revealed it back during Book 1, there would have been no mystery to it.” She said, “I couldn’t reveal it any earlier. I had to wait for all the books to come out.”

Eric: It is – in a way, I can see how it relates to Dumbledore’s story as told in Book 7, you know?

Andrew: Yeah.

Dumbledore and Grindelwald

Eric: And really not much the rest of it. Though I mean, she calls him – on one hand, she does call him gay, like, immediately. She says, “I always saw him as gay.” On the other hand, she draws close attention to his relationship with Grindelwald as having sort of a, I mean, he had a – I wouldn’t call it a man-crush. It was an infatuation, but Dumbledore was…

Ben: [laughs] A man-crush.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: I’m just saying, Dumbledore was 16 at the time, and Grindelwald was very powerfully minded, and they sort of tried to – I mean, now I’m just hearing all these jokes about Grindelwald being in his jail cell and Dumbledore going to visit him, and there’s all sorts of- you know? But I just – I’m tired of hearing that stuff. But it’s really a question of did that relationship continue, and some of the questions in the show notes, was Grindelwald gay, too, or what was the deal with that? And sort of, Grindelwald really hurt Albus’ sister, and did he kill Kendra? So, how exactly did that go down? I just think people want a little more clarification, as well as to what exactly that means because people were asking, “What does that mean?” And then everybody in the room…

Micah: But who cares?

Andrew: That’s the thing.

Eric: Prejudice gets all into…

Andrew: It’s not that big of a deal. It’s a fun fact.

Eric: And I said jokingly after this event when we were walking back to the hotel, I said, “You know what? The fandom is dying down, news was slow. I think Jo just did this to just get the fandom rolling again.” But I was kidding.

[Laura laughs]

Laura: Yeah.

Ben: No, but it definitely, all of a sudden, Harry Potter, you know, the books and the hype is starting to die down, and then “Oh my god, the old white-haired dude is gay!”

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, it explodes. Yeah, I mean, I knew this was more press than Book 7 coming out, almost.

Eric: I think so, too, actually

Andrew: It’s up there. It was the number one story on Digg last week. The top story in all topics for one day.

Laura: That’s ridiculous.

Eric: Still, I don’t think it’s publicity. She has to consider like…

Andrew: It’s not publicity.

Eric: I just think, is it? Yeah. It can’t be publicity. Like Micah said, it was a legitimate question. I’m just wondering if it hurt more people than it saved.

Andrew: Well, it didn’t hurt…

Laura: It doesn’t hurt anybody. It’s ridiculous.

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: Anyone who hurt from that was taking it the wrong way.

Andrew: Yeah, and needs to get a life.

Eric: I’m not talking about the people you heard from, Ben. I’m talking about the people who – like the children, whose parents are banning them from the books or some [omitted]. I mean, I agree that that’s ignorant.

Banning Books From Children

Andrew: Okay, let’s talk about that. Let’s talk about that. Hold on, wait. First of all, we have no evidence parents are banning the children from the books, just because of that. I mean, there’s no storyline in the actual books themselves.

Ben: But I can see that though.

Laura: And the thing is, there are a lot of…

Andrew: Could you?

Laura: People I’ve heard from, even here at school, that have come up to me and say, I’m not upset that Dumbledore’s gay, but I’m upset she took that ambiguity out of the books. And my first response is, well, you’ve already finished reading the books, so what does it matter to you, and my second response is even though she said he’s gay, it’s still open in the books. You can read that so many different ways. It could have been simply down to the fact that Dumbledore and Grindelwald had a deep intellectual relationship. It didn’t necessarily have to be sexual. If you want to read it that way, that’s your perogative, but she’s the author, and she has a right to sit there and call out the facts when she’s asked questions.

Andrew: And it’s her characters.

Eric: Yeah. But that makes it a fact in the book. That – if she always believed he is gay, is he even without it being canon, words in the books? That’s the question of what becomes – who’s the author of a text, who determines meaning, if it’s not written in the book, does it still mean something? And I mean, just like any question she’ll answer that’s post after the fact would you consider it as canon, or – I mean, she’s giving canon answers, so yes, it is canon, in a way. But, again, I mean, what you said the person said, they take the ambiguity out of the books, and I’m just worried that it will work sort of against the series.

Laura: There is plenty of ambiguity still there in the books.

Eric: I mean, I’m not saying it should. It shouldn’t.

Ben: I agree with where Eric is coming from here. I thought about the same thing. Isn’t this going to give more fire to the religious fanatics who are saying – the Laura Mallory camp?

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: Who cares though?

Ben: Isn’t it going to give a lot more fire to them?

Laura: You’re never going to change the minds of those people, so why does it matter?

Ben: I’m just saying that there are some people who would like Harry Potter and ignore the religious objections, but when something like homosexuality comes into play, even though it’s not actually in the books, the fact that the author said that, everyone is talking about it, everyone knows that Dumbledore is gay now, would definitely add – fuel the fire of the people who want to ban the book.

Eric: Hey, look, Ben, I mean, I just don’t want to think of Dumbledore as sexual, let alone homosexual, or heterosexual. I thought of Dumbledore in the books as – he’s the role model.

Laura: He’s asexual. [laughs]

Eric: He’s the wise old wizard, but he’s so much more intelligent. There are so many allegories that Dumbledore makes about – and so many things he tells Harry about “the high and lonely path,” about “being cleverer than more men, your mistakes are bigger, but it’s lonely.” And if all that was just sort of talk because he was having some kind of difficulties in a relationship in his current situation, I just think I would view Dumbledore as non-sexual, or asexual, let alone…

Laura: I don’t know. I don’t think so because…

Ben: Wouldn’t have been awesome if Jo would have come out and announced that Dumbledore as metrosexual?

[Everybody laughs]

Ben: That would have really shaken up the fandom right there.

Laura: The idea of Dumbledore as somebody – I mean it’s a very Kantian idea that, you know? I live my life without any sort of sexual – you know, any sort of sexual relationship, whether that relationship is purely mental, or whether it’s actually physical. And I don’t think Dumbledore would operate that way because…

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: …he continually emphasizes the importance of love.

Andrew: Right, yep.

Laura: So, him to you know – no. He’s not a Emmaneul Kant, thank god.

Ben: Regardless of which set of genitals Dumbledore prefers…

[Laura laughs]

Ben: It doesn’t change the fact that he was an absolute pimp.

Andrew: Yeah, absolutely.

Ben: The things he did! You know what I mean, who else could blast a room full or aurors? I don’t care – I don’t care if he likes other guys, you know?

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: Little guys?

Eric: Not little guys, he’s not a pedophile.

Laura: He said other guys.

Ben: Other guys, not little guys.

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: Then Flitwick would be in trouble.

[Andrew laughs]

The Fandom’s Acceptance

Laura: And what it comes down to is, I’m sorry, there is nothing wrong with being gay, so just get over it. Like, that’s what I have to say. Chill out. Please.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Well put, Laura.

Ben: I don’t have a problem with putting my opinion about that out there. I mean…

Laura: No, me neither.

Ben: Someone – I can argue with someone all day about that so if you have a problem with it…

Andrew: Well, here’s…

Ben: …take me on.

Andrew: Here’s one very good thing…

Ben: You know what, guys? I need a whole keg of butterbeer for this one.

[Everyone laughs]

Ben: You know what I mean? This issue just gets me so fired up.

Andrew: I know. Well, here’s one good thing about the Harry Potter fandom. The fandom is very…

Laura: [laughing] Diverse?

Andrew: …accepting of gay people.

Eric: Didn’t you say, Laura, before the show that 75% of the fandom…

Laura: Eric, we can’t say that.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: We’ll leave that out.

Andrew: We will – we will say there’s a large…

Laura: There is a gay community within the Harry Potter fandom.

Andrew: Well, yes.

Ben: I’m not going to lie. Yeah, that’s totally true. I grew up in Kansas, you know, and Kansas has – is not very tolerant of homosexuals and I didn’t meet a person who was gay until – it was – it was through Harry Potter! It was through the Harry Potter fandom that I met a lot of gay people, and it – I’m not saying – of course, I just preached about gay rights and how I support gay rights so, obviously, I’m not saying it’s a bad thing that I’ve met those people because they’re wonderful people. There’s a lot of homosexuals I’ve met that are absolutely great people.

Eric: Same.

Andrew: Mhm. And I’ll say right now and – there’s more than one, at the least, bisexual person producing MuggleCast. And everyone’s accepting of it. Everyone is very embraceful of it, we’ll say. And there are even more people – I’m not trying to out anyone – there are even more people on MuggleNet who are. And it’s amazing just because even the people on staff are, you know, very accepting of it and it helps them get through it.

Laura: And the thing is, like, no one even gives it a second thought. That’s the thing. We just don’t care.

Eric: No, it’s true.

Andrew: Right, right.

Eric: Harry Potter spoke to all of us, you know what I saying? I mean, these books have been so amazing. They get people of all different types and everything into the fandom. That’s what makes our fandom, sort of – I don’t want to say the best, but, you know, our fandom is really cool like that. And, you know, Harry Potter speaks to such mass amounts of people. Not just girls, not just guys, that sort of thing. It speaks to everyone.

Tangent: Aberforth and The Goats

Micah: Then, what does it speak to if it doesn’t speak to men and women?

Andrew: Dude, Micah, you got to get closer to the mic.

Eric: It speaks to goat lovers!

Micah: Sorry.

Eric: Yeah, you do.

Andrew: Yeah. It speaks to goat lovers.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: Goat lovers. [laughs]

Andrew: We are very accepting of goat lovers.

Laura: Uh…well.

Andrew: If there are any of you in the closet, so to speak, please e-mail in.

Ben: See, I mean,I mean, come on, if anything, if anything is disgusting – I mean, you know what I mean?

Andrew: Yeah.

[Laura laughs]

Ben: People think that…

Laura: A goat.

Ben: Homosexuals are disgusting, but come on, there’s a dude in the series who loves the goat.

[Everyone laughs]

Ben: Why is everyone freaking out about that, you know what I mean?

Eric: Yeah. Yeah. Honestly, I mean…

Andrew: That’s a great point.

Ben: You see, not only was Dumbledore gay, but his brother was in love with goats, you know? It’s gross.

Andrew: Yeah. What was his sister into, you got to wonder?

Eric: You know, some people…

Ben: What a weird family.

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: You know what, I have my own interpretation about what happened with his sister, actually, but that’s probably for another show.

Eric: Some people feel bad for the mother, because your son’s into goats – your one son’s into goats, your other son’s into guys and your daughter gets killed, so you won’t have any grandkids, you know?

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Fair point.

Eric: Someone said that. That shouldn’t even be funny. Somebody said that.

Micah: That’s horrible.

Ben: What did he say?

Andrew: No, that’s very…

Eric: You should feel bad for Dumbledore’s mother, you know, just because the parental thing is to always, sort of, want grandkids. And Dumbledore would adopt…

Ben: But he could adopt.

Eric: He’d have to find a mate, and he’s so intelligent that…

Andrew: He can adopt, he can adopt. It’s true.

Eric: See, I didn’t think Dumbledore was compatible with anyone because of how intelligent he was.

Ben: Actually, I heard men can get pregnant in the wizarding world.

Andrew: That could happen, you know?

Eric: Yeah, or they could turn themselves…

Andrew: Men have holes, too.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Into – they could use Polyjuice. Whoa, Andrew! That’s uncalled for.

Ben: I’d take that part out. You would know.

[Everyone laughs]

MuggleCast 117 Transcript (continued)

Back to Grindelwald

Andrew: Oh, god. Okay, well, let’s – let’s keep advancing this discussion here. I mean, it raises the question – was Grindelwald gay? But…

Ben: But, see, the way that Jo put it, like, I don’t know if – I don’t know whether to infer that he was because, I mean…

Andrew: Yeah. I don’t think he was.

Ben: Look at the letters. We see letters between them and if it’s true, I mean, if Jo said it’s unrequited then, it for sure – I don’t think that Grindelwald would necessarily have to be gay.

Andrew: Yeah. I think I agree with that.

Ben: I mean, I guess if Grindelwald…

Laura: I mean, he could have been, but…

Ben: …could – I guess Grindelwald could have been gay, but just not like Dumbledore, but I have a feeling that Dumbledore and Grindelwald were tight when they were teenagers, you know, they were really close then and Dumbledore just fell in love.

Andrew: Mhm. Yeah. I think so too.

Laura: Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense.

Remus and Sirius

Andrew: Okay, and this begs the question – now what’s interesting is that a while ago, I want to say a year and a half ago – year to year and a half ago – Jamie suggested that we have a discussion on – oh, what were the two characters? Lupin and…

Laura: And Sirius.

Andrew: And Sirius possibly being in a relationship. And we told him “no” because it’s sort of – it wasn’t the right time to do that and it just wasn’t really appropriate for, you know, the listeners. But now, we have to ask, what other characters are gay?

Laura: I mean, yeah, it’s obviously – it’s something she’s been thinking about, so it’s possible that there is someone else.

Andrew: I think it’s very, very, very, very possible that there are more than one that we know of. We just don’t know them yet.

Ben: Guys, guys, guys, I think, you know, I really hate to put this out there because I have friends who really like this character and stuff, but I think Dawlish might be gay.

[Andrew laughs]

Andrew: Dawlish? What evidence leads you to that.

Ben: Yeah. I don’t know. Just his name. Just the way people say his name, too.

Andrew: It is kind of…

Ben: [drawing it out] Dawlish.

Andrew: Yeah. I hear what you’re saying.

Ben: Sounds kind of gay to me. I don’t know.

Andrew: We don’t have to sit around and speculate it because we’ve been talking about this enough, but…

Eric: No, no, it’s all ambiguous. Should we – should we ask Jay – should we ask Jo if that’s…

Andrew: Yes, absolutely, someone should be asking her.

Laura: I think so.

Andrew: I…

Eric: It shouldn’t get more…

Andrew: Who else has had a love life that we don’t really know about? Like…

Eric: Remus Lupin.

Laura: No, he’s not.

Andrew: No.

Eric: That’s a question. With news – Remus and does that really mean because you guys take a look at the David Thewlis news.

Andrew: Yeah, he thought.

Eric: Micah, did you put this in your news this week?

Micah: What’s that?

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah, but he still could be.

Ben: Yeah.

Eric: He still could be because, in fact, I reckon that Remus Lupin’s character in the whole book series – there’s actually a lot between, behind the Remus/Sirius shippers.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: I reckon – I thought that was the most canon relationship in slash to be honest. I mean, I actually thought that was true. And if you actually want to read, sort of, between the lines in Book 7, I think a lot – I mean, how else would you explain, in a way, Remus’ insecurities? I think a lot of what happened was that he wasn’t sure in Book 6 if he wanted to get with Tonks because he was still feeling – maybe he was feeling bad about Sirius. There’s honestly…

Laura: Or maybe he…

Eric: …certain ways Remus behaved allowed me to think that he might be homosexual or have had sort of more than friendly feelings for Sirius in the past. Now, just because he married Tonks and got her pregnant doesn’t mean he wasn’t gay. And, additionally, maybe he married her because he got her pregnant. I mean…

Micah: No, I…

Eric: Is that sort of…

Laura: Oh, that’s…

Eric: How did that work out?

Laura: …completely possible. At the same time, you have to consider his only reason for not wanting to marry her in the first place isn’t just that he might have been gay. I mean, marriage is a huge commitment. He was thinking about her in terms of him being a werewolf and the idea of them having children.

Eric: It’s… Right.

Laura: So, it’s not just the consideration that he might have been gay, there’s a whole lot more to consider there…

Eric: Right.

Laura: I mean, I’m not ruling it out, but I’m just saying, that’s not it.

Eric: No, but even when Tonks said, well, look at Bill. Fleur still loves him even though he’s him, even though he has werewolf cuts, Remus went silent. He was like, “Yeah, well, you know?”; sort of beating around the bush. That’s just what I felt like. I felt like if Jo was going to out somebody it would be Remus. I have to be honest.

Micah: I think his insecurities stemmed from the fact that he was shunned by society for his entire life. I don’t think it has anything to do with – yeah, we all had talked about possibly doing a show on that, but I mean, I just see the relationship between Lupin and Sirius as being friends. I mean, they were close friends. You can’t overanalyze every group of characters…

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: No, you’re right.

Micah: …that are close friends in the series.

Ben: And, do you realize that the majority of the people shipping Lupin and Sirius, I hate to say it, but I heard a lot of just older women.

[Micah laughs]

Laura: It’s true.

Eric: No, it’s true.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: It’s absolutely true.

Laura: It’s true.

Ben: It was just a lot of older women in their 40s who were saying, “Yeah, these two were gay together.” It’s whatever. They’re really close friends. Could they have possibly had sexual relations in the past? Yeah, but does that change the fact that Lupin’s a werewolf? Does it affect the plot, does it affect the storyline?

Eric: And even more…

Ben: Is sexuality really even a part of the series to begin with?

Eric: Yeah. Yeah, they don’t have to be, they’re both good role models to Harry. In the third book they’re my two favorite characters. I mean…

Dumbledore as a Role Model

Ben: Wouldn’t you agree, wouldn’t you guys agree that Dumbledore is still a good role model, 100%?

Laura: Yes, absolutely.

Ben: Like, despite the fact, just because someone – it just baffles me that just because someone, like I said before, just because of the set of genitals that you like that means that it changes who you are as a person. You know? There are more important qualities like…

Laura: Yeah.

Ben: …treating people right, being tolerant of others, you know, accepting people for who they are.

Eric: Yeah. Uh huh.

Ben: You know? Those things don’t matter, but the fact that you like other guys, you know, huge deal.

Laura: And the thing about it is, what I find more important than any – whenever I consider Dumbledore’s love life, what bothers me is that he loved Grindelwald as a person and Grindelwald turned out to be just…

Eric: Quite evil.

Laura: Yes. It’s not that he had a penis; it’s that he was evil. [laughs] That has nothing to do with it, I just – what people, if people are going to question Dumbledore’s relationship or his love of Grindelwald, they should be questioning why he loved somebody who was clearly very flawed, not why that person happened to be of the same gender.

Eric: Right. It’s a security – it’s like an insecurity issue with Dumbledore, I think.

Laura: Yeah, I think so too, but I just…

Eric: Yeah.

Laura: It just ticks me off.

Eric: Yeah, I know.

Fan Response: It Doesn’t Matter

Andrew: Well, let’s get to some fan feedback now because we’ve been getting quite a few e-mails about this. Luckily all the ones I’ve found are positive, although I was trying to find a negative one so we could debate it, but that one Ben brought up was just perfect. First one comes from Callista, 15, of Temple City, California.

At first the news/rumors about Dumbledore’s sexual orientation seemed like a joke.

I don’t know what rumors she’s talking about.

It was kind of unbelievable seeing as that would sound like a joke someone would crack or say just to say what kind of a reaction they would get. I have nothing against homosexuality. I don’t believe in it, but I totally respect it. After some thought I started to feel what Jo said about Dumbledore being gay doesn’t really matter. To some maybe, but it doesn’t change what kind of person Dumbledore was, what he did, and what he was known for. Even though what he believed in is against my beliefs, I still respect and consider him a great person, and so should everyone else.

Good point, Callista.

Laura: Thank you.

Eric: That was very nice.

Andrew: It’s always nice to hear the fan say it, not just us.

Laura: And even from somebody who clearly has views that are different. You know? She flat-out said that it is against her beliefs but she’s not going to hold him to that standard.

Andrew: Because of what she…

Laura: Because of his sexuality. Exactly.

Fan Response: Breaking the Stereotype

Andrew: So, good. Credit to her. Next one, Sarah, 19, from East Lansing, Michigan. She writes:

Hey guys, I just have to send this MuggleMail after JKR’s revelation during the Open Book Tour about Dumbledore being gay.

As a side note, it’s funny Jo called it the Open Book Tour.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Sort of, like, Dumbledore’s being out there, he’s open…

Eric: [Laughs] Being like, whoa! Incredibly open book tour.

Tangent: Ian McKellen

Ben: Hey, Eric, Eric. What’s the name of the guy, Gandalf, Ian what?

Laura: Ian McKellen.

Eric: Sir Ian McKellen is actually, and let’s talk about this for a moment…

Ben: He’s gay. Wouldn’t it have been funny if he would have been casted as Dumbledore originally and then…

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: He would have done lots of fun with it. Ian McKellen had, or I’ve heard Sir Ian McKellen described as a princess, by some people. He was just recently in trouble, I think, in Singapore because he asked on live TV where the nearest gay bar was, and it’s illegal to be gay in Singapore. It actually is. So, he’s very tolerant of it and he’s very open about it, and I love Sir Ian McKellen, to be honest. He’s a really good actor, very Shakespearean. I think yes, it would have been funny if he were cast as Dumbledore. But, I mean, obviously the Gandalf, sort of, confusion, and he’s already got that series, so. And Da Vinci, so he probably wouldn’t be up for it.

Back to Fan Response

Andrew: Yeah. Anyway, Sarah goes on to write:

I love that she made the most powerful wizard of all time a homosexual. It breaks the stereotype and makes a powerful statement in that respect. I also do not believe that she made it up on the spot and I do believe it was important information to give fans. Her characters have so much background that we haven’t seen. She has detailed their lives far more than we expect. And if a fan asks a question, like in this case, she should be able to give an honest answer. The books are out; there is nothing more to hide. I figure that you might get a lot of crap e-mails from fans who do not support this revelation saying that it hurts their image of the books or of JKR. I felt the need to show some love and support to our beloved author. Bottom line, Dumbledore will always kick” – excuse my French – ass.

She didn’t say excuse my French.

Eric: See, what is it with Dumbledores and donkeys? What is it, honestly? Because with Aberforth the goats…

Andrew: The goats. They’re sort of an off branch of the animals.

Eric: Oh, Jesus. Okay.

Fan Response: Jo Wanted to be Controversial

Andrew: One more e-mail from Melissa, 13, of New York. She writes:

Earlier today, J.K. Rowling announced…

Yeah, we know.

However, I personally think she should have kept this little secret about Dumbledore to herself. I personally think that she only made this statement to be controversial. I believe she only said this because she wanted to see how people would challenge the books. And already the ‘Harry Potter’ series have been blamed for going against Christianity. I’ve always believed that ‘Harry Potter’ was not going against the Christian religion in anyway. Like the Pope said, “one must look at the morals of something,” and the morals of the ‘Harry Potter’ books are bravery and respect. However, I think Rowling is pushing her luck with the world by announcing that Dumbledore’s gay. What do you think? Keep up the show. Good work.

Micah: Can I respond to this?

Andrew: Well, hold on. Wait. Just one second. There’s a P.S.

I sound really mean and snobby, but I still love J.K. Rowling. I just love her a little tiny less.

Ben: Well, just so you know, though, J.K. Rowling does not have to pay any of that money back just because she announced Dumbledore’s gay.

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Ben: She had nothing to lose by doing this. She really didn’t have much to lose.

Andrew: I know.

Ben: I mean, when you have a billion dollars, I mean, it isn’t like she’s going to be risking her livelihood by announcing that.

Eric: [sings] If I had a million dollars, I’d tell you Dumbledore was gay. Oh so gay, with Grindelwald. If I had a million dollars – no.

Laura: Okay.

Eric: Guys, it’s not a publicity stunt, though. And that’s where I disagree, because I really don’t think it was a publicity stunt. This e-mail says, “pushing her luck” sort of thing. I actually think it was a true, honest answer, as this person does say. I think it was a true, honest answer. I mean, I’m shocked it was sort of said, and I thought maybe there should have been some care beforehand or something, but I thought, in general principle, what Micah said, “It was an honest question. Get an honest answer.”

Ben: Yeah, and I agree, because, like I said about the whole money thing and everything, is that she had – like the whole reason to be a publicity stunt would be if she was, you know, hurting for money or if she had some reason that she needed to spark more interest in Harry Potter all of a sudden. And what Jo – she isn’t narcissistic, you know what I mean? She’s not like that. She isn’t thinking, “Oh my gosh! Harry Potter’s about to die now! Now I need to do something to shake everyone up!” That wasn’t what it was about. It was – it was just how – it was just – he – Dumbledore liked another guy, guys.

[Andrew gives sarcastic gasp]

Ben: Get over it.

Laura: Oh no! The world is coming to an end!

Ben: Give me a butterbeer.

Eric: You could take it further, Ben, and you could say, well – no, listen okay? Dumbledore at the time was 16 and Jo has said to emotionally sensitive readers, it was an infatuation. Now, there are sort of books that – I mean, that aspect of the book might speak to teenagers. And a lot of people – we’ve gotten e-mails that said, “I’m really liberated because J.K.R. said that.” It encouraged some guy to come out at the show. And you know, things like that, like those are the good aspects of this and I think that that sort of relates to teenagers or teenagers in general. I’m not saying Dumbledore wasn’t gay the rest of his life. I’m saying that certain ambiguities and certain choices that you make in your – these are all things that affect teenagers. Crushes, you know, just in general, affect teenagers, and I think it’s really interesting that she puts Dumbledore, someone who we respect, into that kind of situation and show that Dumbledore was a teenager who faced the same problems that lots of us do.

Laura: Yeah.

Micah: The one thing I wanted to bring up about this was that – and Ben mentioned this before – when people are constantly referring to it going against Christianity and, you know, I think I missed the point where Christianity is the only religion in this country, and being somebody who’s Jewish, and when I constantly see these comparisons being made, I just don’t understand why they think that there is sort of this hierarchy where they’re at the top.

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah.

Laura: Yeah, and I mean, speaking as somebody who doesn’t practice an organized religion, I feel the same way. And last time I checked, Harry Potter wasn’t written to go for Christianity in the first place. Not saying that she’s writing it against it.

Eric: No, it’s not.

Laura: But it’s not a book based on Christianity, so I don’t see why these people act like it should be. [laughs]

The Bible, Homosexuality and Andy’s Article

Andrew: Here’s what I hate the most, and it’s going a little off topic. A lot of people, their big thing is [in a hushed voice], “Oh, well it’s against it in the Bible. Homosexuality is against the Bible. You can’t go to bed with another man.”

Laura: Okay, oh man. Here we go.

Andrew: Well, there are a few things that Andy brought up in his article and I’ve also seen before. Anyone consulting a medium is to be stoned to death. Okay, that’s kind of weird. It is forbidden to cut your hair or to wear clothing out of more than one fabric. Everyone should be killed.

Laura: So, guys, if you want to quote Leviticus, go right ahead. But then, walk outside and prepare to be stoned.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: It is, however, perfectly acceptable to sell your children into slavery, should you choose to do so. And another one I saw on a T.V. show was that it’s forbidden to eat fish. You can’t eat fish.

Eric: You can’t eat fish?

Laura: So many outrageous things. Like there was something that I read about – if a man dies, his wife becomes property of his brother?

Andrew: Yeah, yeah.

Laura: Really? Okay. We don’t do that anymore. So…

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: Too bad.

Andrew: We’re not denouncing the Bible right now. Let’s say that.

Laura: No, what we’re saying is that it’s a text – it is definitely a text of its time and this is not…

Eric: Wait. By that you’re calling it out-dated.

Laura: Yes! [laughs] In a sense I am because this…

Andrew: It sort of is.

Laura: These are not biblical times. You can’t sit here and pick and choose things out of the Bible that you want to apply…

Eric: Right, I completely agree.

Laura: …to issues you disagree with.

Eric: You either agree with it all, or you don’t. And someone who does, prepare to be stoned.

Laura: Yeah. This isn’t a cafeteria. You can’t pick and choose…

Ben: I don’t mind being stoned.

[Everyone laughs]

Ben: Cut that out. Don’t put that in.

Eric: “I don’t mind being stoned.”

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: No, I mean honestly. Micah’s right. Christianity is not the only religion. You cannot succeed on Broadway if you don’t have any Jews.

Micah: [laughs] What?

Eric: None of you get the reference. Everybody – every single one…

Andrew: Do you want to win the “Most Cut Out of the Show” award this week?

Eric: Why? What else have I said, honestly?

Andrew: Penis…a lot of stuff.

Eric: No, Laura said penis. Okay?

Laura: Yeah, I said penis.

Eric: She said penis.

Andrew: Okay, but Eric said something – I don’t know. Whatever. So yeah, it’s “BS,” you know? If we were considering making this an explicit – well I was [laughs] considering making it an explicit episode, because there’s just so much more I personally want to say about it, because it just really ticks me off when some people are saying some stuff, you know, about Dumbledore, just homosexuality in general. It’s very, very frustrating.

Laura: We should start a whole separate podcast.

Eric: People are ignorant. If somebody could eloquently talk to you about why it’s wrong, then we’d have them on, you know? Then we’d talk about it, but…

Andrew: You know, I was just thinking, I almost want to say, we invite someone who’s completely against it to come on the show and have a little debate. However, that could get a little nasty.

Eric: No, that would definitely get very nasty, very fast.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: So, back to Melissa’s e-mail. Yeah, I don’t – it doesn’t make sense how you could see J.K. Rowling any less. If it’s a fact, it’s a fact. It’s her character, she wrote him the way she wanted him to be written. If you think you have a better idea, go out and write your own book series. However, I don’t think it’s going to be as popular. So…

Thank Yous

Andrew: Okay, now is a good time to thank the people who did get Laura, Micah, and I in. First and foremost, I would like to thank Lucas, who was on the live show, our 12-hour live podcast a few weeks ago, and I think I was sort of bugging him for a ticket. He got me in, I took his sister’s ticket, so thanks to him a lot. Shout out to Lucas!

Eric: Thanks to his sister, as well.

Andrew: Laura and Micah?

Laura: I want to thank Laura Coratie, I believe – I think that’s how you say your last name, Laura, but she was really, really generous about – she e-mailed me like, literally, right after she got the ticket and offered it to me. And we spent some time on the phone talking about how excited we were and then we met up with her and we hung out with her for a few hours, too. She came by our hotel and we all went out to dinner together, and she was really, really nice.

Andrew: We bought her pizza!

Laura: Yes.

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: You give us a ticket…

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: …we buy you pizza.

Eric: God, I want pizza.

Laura: And she was really great, so thank you again, Laura, like, I…

Andrew: Unless your name is Lucas.

[Laura laughs]

Micah: Yeah.

Laura: It was really great to get it.

Micah: And I would like to thank Mariah Wilson-Barrone. She actually came all the way from New Mexico to be there, and I just lucked out, because apparently she was with two other people who had a child, and they didn’t know if the child was going to be able to sit on the parent’s lap, which ended up happening, and that freed up my ticket. So, thank you to Mariah.

Andrew: We called Micah like 15 minutes before the event actually started…

Micah: [laughs] Yeah.

Andrew: …and I was like, “Micah, run down here!” And he ran. When he came, he was out of breath. He was like, “Dude, you shouldn’t have done that to me.”

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Andrew: But, Micah, you’re in shape. You work out. Come on, man.

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: You go to the gym.

Micah: I made it there.

Andrew: Yeah, you did make it there just on time. Just on time. So, yeah, okay.

Meeting Jo

Andrew: Now let’s talk about when we actually got to meet Jo. Let’s see, who went up first? Laura went up first?

Laura: No, Micah did.

Micah: I did.

Andrew: Oh, Micah did.

Laura: Micah was before me.

Micah: I did.

Andrew: Micah, how’d it go?

Micah: It was good. It was good. It was a quick “hello,” and I – I don’t know. Maybe there was a connection there, I’m not saying anything, but…

Andrew: [laughs] What, you’re not saying anything?

Micah: Yes.

Andrew: That’s very suggestive.

Micah: There was a connection, you know. We had that little site update thing going on.

Andrew: Right, right, right.

Micah: No, but it was cool. It was definitely cool and – said, “hello,” she said, “hello,” and not as exciting as the two of you, but…

Laura: Oh, yeah. [laughs]

Micah: Well, at least Andrew – Andrew’s was coolest, but…

Andrew: [laughs] Thank you.

Laura: The thing that’s really disappointing about it is, you know, you think, you know, Eric, you’re sitting here saying, “You met J.K.R., you met J.K.R.,” and it’s like, I stood in front of her for ten seconds and we exchanged about five words.

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: And I had a MuggleNet shirt, and as they took my book from me and started to hand it to her, I slid it on the table and she looked up at me while she was signing someone else’s book, so I felt kind of bad for them, and I was like, “Hi, I’m Laura from MuggleNet and we just wanted you to
have this shirt on behalf of our staff.” And I just kind of babbled something about how we love her or whatever, and she was like, “Oh, cool, thank you so much!” And she like, looked, you know, right up at me and she smiled really big and then she signed my book and then the Scholastic people shoved me away, and they gave me another signed copy on accident, and then they took it away from me when they realized what they did, so I was very disappointed.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Eric: Oh, god.

Andrew: So then I’m going up. A few rows later, I’m going up, and I got my man Lucas behind me, and I’m like, “Lucas, I can’t do this, man. I can’t say anything to her. I’m just – I’m going to lose it. I’m going to
screw it up.” And he’s like, “No, do it. You have to do it. You have to do it.” So, I got inspired to do it and just say that I’m from MuggleNet, that’s all I was really whining about. And I’m about to go up, and this kid a few spots ahead of me gives her a high five, and I’m thinking, now that would be a cool story. I could say I said “hello”, I could say I gave her a handshake, or I can say I gave Jo a high five.

[Eric laughs]

Ben: You should’ve gave her a high ten.

Andrew: A high ten. [laughs]

Ben: If you really wanted to go for it all.

Andrew: Double the – yeah, why didn’t I do that? Damn it.

Ben: Dude, yeah, yeah. You screwed it up.

Andrew: I fail.

Ben: Don’t even finish the story, now.

Andrew: You’re right. Well, no, I have to finish the story. She had one hand always signing stuff anyway, so I was like, “Jo!” I came up to her and I said, “I’m Andrew from MuggleNet.” She gave me like a silent, like, “Ahhh.” Like, I’ll illustrate it for – I’ll make a sound for podcasting purposes. And I was like, “Jo, can I have a high five?” And she keeps staring at me, while she’s finishing signing, you know, this book. Book number, like, 1,800. And then finally, she comes up, and it’s like, it’slike slow motion, it’s like [sings] da da da da do doo…

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: And like, she did it slow, because, you know, she’s high-fiving the Andrew Sims. It’s a big moment for her. So she’s coming up for the big high five, you know?

[Ben laughs]

Andrew: And then boom, we made contact, and I was like, “Yeah, Jo, you rock!” And then I went off and was happy. [sighs] So, that was that. Over all, great event. [laughs] We’re all very happy we went.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: And – wow, I guess we’re all now winded out.

Laura: And I’m fearing for the life of my copy of the book [laughs], here at school.

Eric: Laura…

Andrew: Okay, so…

Eric: …what’s your dorm number again? [laughs]

Laura: What?

Eric: What’s your dorm number?

Laura: Uhhh, no.

Eric: How good’s…

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: How good’s campus security, Laura?

[Ben laughs]

HUH!? E-mails of the Week

Andrew: Okay, now it’s time for just a quick two Huh?! E-mails of the Week. My voice is dead, so I can’t do it to the full potential. Two of them – as everyone knows, we didn’t have a show last weekend because our voices were gone. We were all sick and sort of busy in New York City. So this first e-mail comes from Josh, 14, of Florida. He writes:


He quotes what I said on the MuggleCast.com blog.

Monday, 7 PM, Laura calls and tells me her voice is gone. That’s what I put on the blog. He says, Laura calls you and tells you her voice is gone. Sounds like a load of crap to me, but you are entitled to say what you like.

[Ben laughs]

Andrew: Explain to me how exactly she calls and tells you her voice
is gone when her voice is, well, gone.

[Laura and Ben laugh]

Andrew: Sorry, didn’t mean to come off rude or anything. Don’t cry.

[Laura laughs]

Ben: That is funny, though.

Laura: Wait, what?

Ben: Because I used to work in an office, and I did a lot of tech stuff, and I had people e-mail me and tell me their e-mail wasn’t working.

[Eric and Andrew laugh]

Laura: Well…

Ben: You know what I mean?

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: So, it’s the same thing.

Eric: Same deal. I used to work for my school district and lots of people would come in, but they had to do a guest account and stuff. That’s how they did it, but yeah.

Laura: Wait, so what is this Monday 7 PM…

Andrew: That’s what I wrote on the MuggleCast blog. I had a schedule of events.

Laura: Oh okay.

Andrew: Okay, so listen, Josh, I mean, if you lose your voice, you still have a raspy voice. You don’t completely lose it. We didn’t mean literally her voice jumped out of her throat.

Laura: No, and Andrew and I are both sitting there and our voices are cracking like we’re 13-year-old boys.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah.

Laura: I mean that’s what we sounded like. It was really bad.

Andrew: Yeah. So, sorry, Josh. Sorry. Sorry, dude.

Eric: It’s not like Ursula came up and got Laura to sing and then, you know, took her voice.

Andrew: Yeah. You know what, Josh? You caught us. You caught us. We just wanted to annoy you. We knew you would catch us.

Laura: We were thinking, “I want to annoy Josh from Florida. I’m going to lose my voice just for him.”

Andrew: Oh, good. Okay so next Huh?! E-mail of The Week comes from Miranda, 19, of South Dakota:

Now that we know that Dumbledore is gay, how do you think this will
affect the last two movies? In the book, he’s never portrayed as being flamboyant, but I’m afraid now the movie people (specific, I know) will try to portray his character as a stereotypical gay person.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Not that I’m against gays at all, but I’m afraid that it will ruin the character of Dumbledore by trying to bring in characteristics about him that aren’t in the books just because of this revelation. What do you guys think?

Laura: Dumbledore not flamboyant?

Eric: Have you guys seen Stardust?

Laura: Are you kidding me? That man is like the definition of flamboyant.

Eric: Yeah. Just not necessarily tied to gay.

Laura: No, no, no.

Micah: Well, you know, I’ve got the answer.

Andrew: Well, we do have a lot of respect for our listeners, but, listen Warner Bros isn’t going to change the movies just because of this fact. They’re not going to do anything.

Micah: Even if they did, you wouldn’t be able to tell because Michael Gambon can’t act, so… [laughs]

Show Close

Andrew: [laughs] Right. I think that just about does it for today’s show. This was another very long show but I guess it makes up for us not being around last week because we did “lose our voices.”

Laura: I really did!

Andrew: Which is really strange, Laura, Micah, and I. All three of us. I guess we all caught the same thing, whatever weird thing that was.

Eric: Were you guys kissing again? Snogging in the backroom?

Andrew: There was a little of that. Not going to lie.

Eric: Have you guys all seen the Caption Contest, by the way?

Andrew: Yes, we have. Eric, re-did the entire Caption Contest. Go to MuggleNet.com for more details.

Eric: Sweet.

Andrew: I think that does wrap up the show for today. We need to give you some contact information, though, just in case you have some rebuttals or any other problems with us. Or maybe you love us so much, you just want to give us some love. Laura what is the P.O. Box if people want to reach us that way?

Laura: It’s P.O. Box 3151

Cumming, Georgia

Andrew: Laura, you told us the other day your mom reported that a glass pickle came in the mail?

Laura: It did and I can’t remember the name of the girl who sent it. I will get that, though and report to you next week. But yeah, she did send a glass pickle. So…

Andrew: Thank you. Can I have it?

Laura: Yeah! Sure. [laughs]

Andrew: There are also other numerous ways to contact us. Of course, you can call us via the MuggleCast hotline. If you’re in the United States, you can dial 1-218-20-MAGIC. That’s 1-218-206-2442. If you’re in the United Kingdom, you can also dial 0-208-144-0677 and if you’re in Australia, you can dial 028-0035-668. You can also Skype the username MuggleCast. Just go to Skype.com to download the program for free and give us a call that way. Just remember no matter which way you call us, to keep your message under 60 seconds and try to eliminate as much background noise as possible. Maybe we’ll try to get to some voicemails next week about the whole Dumbledore being gay topic. I’m sure lots of you have some responses whether they are negative to ours or good to ours. Just keep in mind no matter how many calls we get with people saying, “No, you guys are wrong, Dumbledore being gay is wrong,” you’re always going to get shutdown by us no matter what you say.

There is also a handy feedback form on MuggleCast.com, or you can contact us with your questions, rebuttals, comments, etc.

And do not forget our community outlets. We have the MuggleCast MySpace,
the Facebook, YouTube group, Frappr group, Last.FM group, and fanlisting. The fanlisting does exist but some new forums are coming soon. Of course all of this information is over at MuggleCast.com.

Eric: dot com.

Andrew: Hey, don’t forget MuggleCast ringtones! Okay that is it. I need a drink.

Laura: Oh, wow.

Eric: Hey, guys, if you’re in Australia, thank you for coming out toe MuggleCast Down Under, it was freaking awesome, and if you have any questions, stuff about shirts, that sort of thing, and if you want to tell us how much you loved the event, mugglecastoz at gmail dot com. MuggleCast-O-Z.

Andrew: We apologize for taking two weeks off, but we won’t do that again. Sometimes we just get really busy, especially with school going on now, but we are going to work the kinks out.

[Show music begins]

Andrew: And we’ll get some live shows going on soon. I have the mixer set up but there are still a couple kinks I need to work out and I need to buy a couple of little small things. Laura, I’ll be seeing you tomorrow.

Laura: Yes, we’re getting together for the release of Leopard. It’s very exciting!

Eric: What’s Leopard?

Andrew: Heck yes! Leopard’s the new OS 10 operating system for Macintosh.

Laura: And where are we going, Andrew?

Eric: Oh, I thought it was a show when I read the e-mail.

Andrew: We’re going to…

Andrew and Laura: [singing] Baltimore!

Andrew: [singing] Every day’s like an open door!

Eric: Oh, geez.

Andrew: I’ve seen Hairspray four times now.

Laura: I’ve only seen it once.

Eric: What’s the title of MuggleCast this week going to be?

Andrew: Dumbledore’s Gay.

Eric: No, that can’t be the title.

Laura: Dumbledore Takes It.

Andrew: Oh, Laura, we’re still live.

Eric: People are – or Andrew’s quote. Guys Have Holes Too.

Micah: What?

Andrew: What?

Eric: That was Andrew’s quote. He said that.

Micah: What? You cut off.

Andrew: You broke up.

Eric: Oh. Guys Have Holes Too.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Should I cut that or should that stay in?

Eric: Yeah you should – keep it. Keep it, keep it.

Micah: Ehhh…

Laura: I thought it was hilarious. This show is going to offend so many people anyway.

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, you know, I’ll put a disclaimer at the beginning of the show.

Eric: Just call it “Offensive Content.”

Andrew: We thank you all for listening, we hope nobody was too offended and we were getting off topic a little bit. We’ll see everyone next week for Episode 118 for MuggleCast. Once again, I’m Andrew Sims.

Ben: I’m Ben Schoen.

Eric: I’m Eric Scull.

Laura: I’m Laura Thompson.

Micah: And I’m Micah Tannenbaum.

Andrew: Bye-bye!

Laura: Bye!


[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: That’s really all the news is about.

Laura: I know. All it’s going to be is Micah going, “Dumbledore is gay.”

Andrew: “Back to you.”

[Laura laughs]


Episode 117: Butterbeer by the Keg

  • Dumbledore is gay – initial thoughts from the hosts!
  • Eric gives us a full report on MuggleCast LIVE in Australia!
  • We go over each of the questions answered at the October 19th reading in NYC.
  • Andrew, Laura, and Micah talk about meeting Jo. (Yes, life is now complete.)
  • Should Jo have revealed Dumbledore’s sexuality?
  • Why does it matter, and why is it front-page news?
  • This leads into a discussion on the presence of homosexuality and how it is regarded in society, as well as our own experiences.
  • The hosts become quite opinionated when it comes to fans who act as though Dumbledore being gay tarnishes his character.
  • The message of this episode: embrace differences and donÕt blindly follow the doctrine that all people must be one way, which is deemed the “right” way.

Download Now

Running time: 1:30:46, 31.3 MB

Transcript 116

MuggleCast 116 Transcript

Show Intro

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Mason: Yeah. When you check out, enter code Muggle- that’s M-U-G-G-L-E- and save an additional 10 percent on any order.

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Lauren: Wow! Do any restrictions apply?

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Lauren: dot com.

Andrew: Today’s MuggleNet podcast is brought to you by Borders. In May, thousands of Harry Potter fans descended upon New Orleans for the Phoenix Rising Conference. Borders was there to take in the sites and share a lively discussion of the series that has bewitched the world with some of Harry’s most dedicated fans. Listen in and watch the action yourself. Check our The Phoenix Rising, Borders Book Club
discussion at BordersMedia.com/HarryPotter, or click on the Borders banner at the top of the MuggleNet page.

[Intro music starts]

Micah: Because sometimes pigs are made for slaughter, this is MuggleCast Episode 116 for October 8th, 2007.

[Intro music keeps playing a little louder]

Andrew: Well, we’re back for another week of Harry Potter podcasting here. Or should I say, I’m back. Hehehe..

Laura: Wooo.

Andrew: Thanks, Laura.

[Laura and Eric laugh]

Andrew: And also Jerry’s here again and joining us this week.

Jerry: Hello.

Andrew: Because nobody else wants to talk to you guys anymore.

[Eric laughs]

Eric: It’s just the 4 of us. It’s just…

Andrew: Yeah, I’ll tell you what, the news has been so slow lately.

Laura: It really has.

Andrew: There’s nothing to talk about anymore.

Laura: I feel really depressed, like, I think about the times before the book came out and just how much news we had and now I just look at the main page and it’s dead.

Andrew: Yeah, we would have spent an entire episode just on the news.

Laura: [laughs] Yeah.

Andrew: Now it’s like an entire minutes just on the news.

Eric: Actually, just last week it took us 40 minutes to get through the news. That could have been me, but… [laughs]

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Well, oh yeah, and there’s that whole thing with the tickets.

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: But…

Jerry: Yeah.

Andrew: So, we’re going to get through some news this week and then we’re going to have some Muggle Mail and apparently nobody like the name change.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: You guys were like, making fun of me. We don’t have to call it Muggle Mail. We can keep calling it rebuttals. I just thought…

Jerry: I like it.

Laura: Muggle Mail’s fine. I just like to make…

Jerry: Because they email it…

Laura: Fun of you. I’m sorry.

Andrew: Last week you’re like [blows raspberry]

[Laura laughs]

Eric: I think it’s because some of our listeners posts their e-mail?I mean… No mail is posts…

Andrew: What? Posts are e-mail? That’s an oxymoron.

Eric: No…

Andrew: Mail as in e-mail?

Eric: Well, Muggle Mail. You know most of the wide world calls it post, therefore…

Andrew: Right.

Eric: Just the fact that you’re using Muggle Mail is strict Americanism that should be stopped dead, but…

Andrew: Oooh, I get it.

Jerry: Muggle groups!

Laura: Oh no! Americanisms on an American show.

Eric: You can’t call it Muggle Post because that’s copyright.

Andrew: It doesn’t roll off the tongue as well.

Eric: And it doesn’t roll off the tongue.

Andrew: Muggle Post. Muggle Mail. Muggle Mail, Muggle, Mail, Muggle Mail.

Laura: I like Muggle Mail better.

Andrew: Yeah, basically.

Jerry: Me, as well.

Andrew: I’m Andrew Sims.

Eric: I’m Eric Scull.

Laura: I’m Laura Thompson.

Jerry: And I’m Jerry Cook.

[Intro music continues louder]


Andrew: Micah Tannenbaum is in the MuggleCast News Center with this weeks past Harry Potter news stories. Hey, Micah.

Micah: Another set of JK Rowling’s autographed Harry Potter books has been put up for auction by the National Braille Press last week for the Hands On! Books for Blind Children charity. This organization “strive[s] to eliminate the literacy gap that separates blind children from the mainstream.” The auction will continue until October 25, 2007, at 9:00 PM EDT and on the next day it will be featured live at the gala hosted by The Tonight Show‘s Jay Leno.

The Order of the Phoenix movie is not the world’s 6th highest earning film accumulating a staggering $933.9 million worldwide. Sorcerer’s Stone is at number 4 with 976.5 million. On top of that the 5th film has surpassed Goblet of Fire‘s US sales of $290,013,036 earning its self $290,189,393.

In a new interview with Variety, Harry Potter producer David Heyman discusses what lies ahead for him after the last two films as well as what it has been like to work with actors both young and old. Heyman takes little credit for the development of the young stars citing their relationships with actors such as Gary Oldman and Maggie Smith:

“It’s because of their commitment and curiosity to develop their craft. We’ve given them the platform, but they’re here because they’re good.”

Finally, The Daily Mail is reporting that the 11-year old nephew of Voldemort actor Ralph Fiennes is set to be cast as young Tom Riddle in Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince. Director David Yates says he has found someone to play the part, but couldn’t comment on who it is:

“I’ve found a really interesting kid to play Riddle. I can’t tell you who it is yet– it’s early days.”

That’s all the news for this October 8th, 2007 edition of MuggleCast. Back to the show.

News Discussion: Harry Potter is Wizard of the Month

Andrew: All right, thank you Micah. We have, as I said in the intro, as you can tell by Micah’s news, there was some news, there wasn’t a lot. Not as much to discuss, either. One thing I did want to point out. J.K. Rowling Wizard of the Month for October is Harry Potter.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: It’s sort of been building up. It started with the Four Founders, and Godric Gryffindor was last. Then it went to Dumbledore?

Laura: Yeah, he was a Wizard of the Month. I just don’t remember when.

Andrew: And then it was to Voldemort. I know Voldemort was last month and now it’s Harry Potter, and I’m just thinking, she keeps building up to the greatest Wizard of the Month sort of seems like what she’s trying to get across. Now, I’m wondering who’s next. Who could be greater than Harry Potter?

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Or do you think she’s going to go back to normal wizards? Know what I’m saying?

Eric: Ginny Weasley, his…

Andrew: Ginny Weasley?

Eric: This is what the thing will read: “Wife of Harry Potter puts up with all his crap, and his angsty moods.” No, I really don’t know.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: I don’t know. I just thought it was some Food for Thought because…

Laura: Yeah, it’s interesting.

Andrew: …it seems like it keeps building up.

Eric: Yeah…

Andrew: The wizard. They’re getting bigger and bigger.

Laura: I just wonder how much longer she’s going to keep doing that.

Andrew: The Wizard of the Month?

Laura: She’s going to run out of Wizards eventually.

Andrew: Yeah. That’s true. Can’t have a Wizard of the Month…

Jerry: There is a paragraph of work. I mean, come on.

Andrew: Yeah, that’s true.

Jerry: She can manage it.

Eric: It’s not like she’s writing books.

[Eric and Andrew laugh]

Eric: But, I mean, it can be done automatically. I mean, it is just the first of every month. If it isn’t already…

Andrew: I’m sure Jo’s not sitting there…

Andrew: Oh, I’m sure Jo’s not sitting there, “Oops, 7:00! Publish.” Like, you know.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Sorry, not 7:00, but…

Eric: Why not? Why couldn’t J.K. Rowling have a direct hand in her website? That’s how I imagine it.

Jerry: I’d like to think she does.

Andrew: Jo’s not sitting up at midnight every…

Eric: When I go to JKRowling.com – Hey, Andrew, I’ve sat up at midnight and hit publish before on that little section of MuggleNet I do. And…

Andrew: Well, you’re insane like that.

Laura: Ok, so yeah you’re not a best selling author, either.

Eric: I just imagine… That’s true. Not yet. Not yet, that’s true. Not yet. But, it’s – I just imagine that it’s Jo to us, you know what I’m saying?

Andrew: I would love to see…

Eric: That he updates JKRowling.com.

Jerry: Her hand presses that button.

Eric: Like, when the door locks, for instance. I imagine it’s her on the other side of the door, not letting us through. [laughs] It’s just me.

Laura: Well, it is, but she doesn’t – it’s all automatically done. It’s timed.

Andrew: Yeah.

[Jerry laughs]

Andrew: I would love to see the admin panel for that site.

Laura: Oh, that would be cool.

Andrew: [weird voice]I would love to see the Administration Panel.

Jerry: Or is it all just kind of flash programming?

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, I think that – I wonder if Jo has like, you know how like we have MuggleNet Accio. I named it that, MuggleNet Accio.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: I’m meaning like all-encompassing. I wonder if she has one where like she clicks the tabs and updates the site herself or…

Laura: J.K. Rowling Accio.

Andrew: If she just – yeah. [laughs] She just e-mails like Lightmaker.

Jerry: Mhm.

Andrew: Like, you know, “Here’s my latest blog post. Post it, please.”

Eric: Well I wonder, because it begs the question, how many other people do we know…

Jerry: Hmmm.

Eric: Because Lightmaker makes a lot of other sites too. We know a few people who they’ve made sites for, don’t we?

Andrew: Well, Emma Watson’s official site is created by Lightmaker.

Jerry: Yeah.

Eric: Oh, yes, of course.

Andrew: That’s the most recent one. There are some other ones. Let me just go on their website real quick.

Jerry: The official website design company for Harry Potter movies.

Andrew: Right. Well, not the Harry Potter movies, are they?

Jerry: No, no. Harry Potter actors.

Andrew: Okay. Kid’s Choice Awards, they designed the Kid’s Choice Awards site for Nickelodean. Dominion Chick. Whatever that is. The FA Girls United, which is “a microsite supporting the England Women’s Football Team.”

Eric: Oooh, interesting.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: How are they doing, Jerry? Have you ever seen that?

Jerry: [laughs] Didn’t know they existed? Shows how much attention I pay to sports.

Andrew: Oh, wait, looks like they also do a lot of video games, sports pages.

Jerry: I wonder if Jo’s site was their big break in mainstream sites. Big mainstream sites.

Andrew: I would think so.

Laura: Mhm.

Eric: I wonder if she found them.

Andrew: I’m looking at their portfolio now and there’s a lot of more recent, like, video games and stuff like that. Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire and also Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix website, I think I remember was created by Lightmaker too.

Jerry: Hmmm.

Andrew: So, they get around. They definitely get around.

Jerry: Hmmm.

Andrew: Moving on. A new actor…

Eric: Wait! Wait! Wait! Wait!

Andrew: What?

Eric: Quick speculation on Harry being the Wizard of the Month in October.

Andrew: Go for it.

Eric: As opposed to July, where July’s when he and, obviously, J.K. Rowling are born. Now, October was – I mean, Halloween night, October 31st was the night that Voldemort attacked Harry. Do you think that has any significance here? Like…

Jerry: Yeah, could be.

Andrew: Well, maybe.

Laura: Well, yeah, that’s what I was thinking.

Eric: Because, like, October’s when Harry first brought hope to the world. Though, arguably that was in November. Because the beginning of the first book is either November 1st or 2nd dependingif you subscribe to the Lost Day theory or Missing Day. But it’s – McGonagall says, I wouldn’t be surprised if this was Harry Potter Day in the future. And it was because like it’s the day that everyone is running around with cloaks and stuff and was all happy? So, do you guys – like I would have thought it would be kind of November or something. Or, at any rate…

Laura: Well…

Eric: I think people should kind of pick that up and have celebrations on November 1st or 2nd as opposed to just, like, July 31st for Harry parties.

Laura: I think the point is that Voldemort actually attacked them on October 31st. And, of course, people were celebrating the next day. So, I think that’s…

Eric: The next day’s a whole other month, though.

Laura: Okay. But, I think that if there’s any significance to her making Harry Wizard of the Month of October, it’s because October was the month in which his family was attacked.

Eric: Yeah, okay.

Andrew: But then begs the question, why would Voldemort be Wizard of the Month for August?

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Sorry, September, September.

Eric: I mean, just looking at it. If you think about it, if he attacked them late at night on October 31st British time, it was already November 1st in New Zealand.

[Andrew laughs and coughts]

Laura: Okay. And she clearly cares what time it was in New Zealand.

Jerry: She has a huge dice that she rolls

Eric: But it puts a kink in the Missing Day theory, because technically anything happened on two days. So, I don’t know, but – Just my thoughts.

Andrew: You know, speaking of, like, a big Harry Potter Day, a lot of people are trying to organize a big event. I’m trying to find e-mails now, because I know I’ve been e-mailed about it. Have you guys heard about this? It’s, like a big Harry Potter day – oh, what year is it? It’s the day in the Epilogue.

Jerry: King’s Cross, yeah.

Andrew: And everyone wants to gather…

Laura: Oh, at King’s Cross Station.

Andrew: Yeah.

Jerry: Yeah.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah. Have you guys heard about that? I’m trying to get the exact day.

Laura: Yeah, I did.

Andrew: But it’s so far off from now, that I just think everyone’s going to forget about it.

Eric: It’s like 2026. Andrew, when you do that, the other thing is still on Harry Potter in the text-only site, or actually anywhere. For Wizard of the Month, it says, “Potter joined the reshuffled Auror Department under Kingsley Shacklebolt at age 17, rising to become Head of said department in 2007.” So, she’s actually made it so that in the storyline, which she now subscribes to, surprisingly. The storyline is that Harry just became Head of Auror Department this year. So, if he were living…

Andrew: Oh, Okay.

Jerry: Perhaps it was this month this year.

Laura: Hmmm.

Eric: Well, it just says in 2007. So, she made him Head of the Department this year so I bet everyone’s really happy. I bet Severus is really happy for his daddy.

News Discussion: Tom Riddle Actor

Andrew: Yeah, that’s cool. So,I guess moving along now. New actor to play Tom Riddle. Previously in Chamber of Secrets it was Christian Coulson. But this is a young Tom Riddle so he had to be recast. And I don’t think Christian Coulson was up for it, anyway.

Eric: You don’t know that.

Andrew: I thought we heard he wasn’t up for it.

Eric: Oh, did you?

Laura: Yeah, I heard he wasn’t interested.

Eric: That’s a shame.

Andrew: But then I was just looking at his IMDB profile – well, first let’s get to the story and then we’ll talk about it. Titan Tiffin is supposed to be cast as the young Tom Riddle. This comes from a recent article in the Daily Mail, so it’s not the most reliable source, but it seems to be picking up some steam here. And David Yates was quoted as saying, “I’ve found a really interesting kid to play Riddle. I can’t tell you who it is yet. It’s early days.” Meaning early days in the filming process. However, it seems like with Goblet of Fire and Order
of the Phoenix
with my experience, even before they started filming we would get these casting confirmations. But it seems now that Warner Brothers is trying to hide all of it until later. Which seems kind of strange.

Eric: Well, what kind of cards do they have to play? They can’t hide a book. So… [laughs]

Jerry: Hmmm.

Andrew: Yeah, I know. I know. So, this guy has a little connection to Ralph Fiennes. He is the eldest son of Ralph’s younger sister Martha, an award-winning film director, and Old Etonian George Tiffin, a novelist and film producer. Martha’s the award-winning film director and George Tiffin, his father is a novelist and film producer. But a quick search on IMDB will reveal that Titan Tiffin has never been in
a movie or anything before. So, he’s going to be a brand new actor.

Jerry: But he has an amazing name.

Andrew: It is a cool name. Ttitan Tiffin.

Jerry: Very cool name.

Andrew: Yeah. So, we’re still waiting on confirmation on that from Warner Brothers. We have no idea how old this kid is or anything, so I guess we’ll just have to wait.

Eric: I’m pretty sure there will be, as soon as it’s confirmed. There will be all sorts of information on him. And the thing that I have with IMDB is that great actors like Ian McKellen often do a lot of stage plays, and there’s no – that stuff just doesn’t show up on IMDB anyway. There’s just no place for it if they do stuff on stage in acting.

Andrew: Yeah.

Jerry: Hmmm.

Eric: So, it’s possible he does have acting experience.

Andrew: He could. Yeah, that’s true.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: There was just nothing listed – movies, TV shows. He doesn’t even have a profile on there.

Eric: Oh, yeah. Not even commercials are listed on IMDB, which is a shame. Or music videos. Well, maybe music videos. I’m not sure.

Andrew: He’s a nobody.

Laura: Yeah, I do wonder how old he is because in the book we see Tom Riddle as an 11-year old and then as a young adult.

Eric: Yeah. We see him through various stages of life.

Laura: So, yeah.

Eric: I don’t want Christian Coulson to play 11-old Tom Riddle, but I wouldn’t have minded–I was actually supporting him being the 25-year old one, or something like that. I mean, if it can’t be done, or whatever–but they’ve got to cast several Riddles, is the thing, don’t they?

Andrew: Right.

Laura: Yeah, that’s what I would think.

Andrew: Well, I was looking at Christian Coulson’s IMDB and he’s not doing anything right now, at least when it comes to movies or TV shows. He has been doing things like this year and last year, but they’re all complete. He has no films in pre-production or currently filming, so I guess some people just aren’t interested in coming back, or maybe they didn’t even approach him. Who knows. But they do need him.

Eric: Yeah, well, it could help. Some little continuity between the films. We’ve been talking about that before on the show.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Just some general kind of principles that would help it move along a little bit easier.

Andrew: Right. Okay, moving along, unless anyone had any other news they want to discuss?

Eric: I don’t – news, let’s take a look at the schedule.

Andrew: Professor McGonagall’s birthday, but other than that, there really isn’t much going on.

Jerry: Book auction? I don’t think any of our listeners are in the market for 40,000 pounds.

Announcements: Vote on Podcast Alley

Andrew: Yeah. There’s book auctions all the time, too, so we really never talk about those. All right, I guess that’s it. Moving on to announcements now, don’t forget to vote for us on Podcast Alley. It is a new month, as the co-hosts mentioned last week. And by looking at the top ten list, we’re number five right now.

Eric: Hooray.

Andrew: That’s okay, I guess. We used to be number one.

Laura: Who are we under?

Andrew: Nobody Likes Onions. We’re under the Super Secret Backstage Show, whatever the heck that is. Keith and the Girl is number two, Free Talk Live is number one.

Laura: Okay.

Andrew: So, we encourage everyone to please place their vote over at Podcast Alley. We like being in the top ten list because Podcast Alley is one of the sites that a lot of press go to to check out what’s hot in podcasting, and we like to be featured in news articles because we’re always referred to as those Harry Potter kids, those Harry Potter podcasters. So, be sure to vote for us – hmmm?

Eric: [laughs] I still remember your acceptance speech at the Podcast Awards, Andrew.

Andrew: Oh, yeah.

Laura: Oh, that was so good.

Andrew: Why the hell did those Harry Potter kids?

Eric: I know what you’re thinking. How did Harry Potter – yeah. It was great.

Andrew: How the hell – yeah. I should have been like how the heck did those Harry – because I’m sure that was what they were all really thinking.

Eric: Well, I think you shocked the wine-tasting guys. The wine-tasting guys were all really shocked that you said that.

Andrew: Really? Why? They taste wine. And they’re shocked at Harry – whatever.

Announcements: MuggleCast Down Under

Eric: Okay, next announcement. Mugglecast Down Under, guys. Listen, everybody. Mugglecast Down Under. Mugglecast in Australia. T-shirts now available for pre-order. Yes, I’m reading this from a script. Listen, guys, t-shirts for the event are now available. What we’re doing is we’re pre-ordering them because actually we’re giving away these t-shirts–well, not giving them away, but we are selling them. They’re twenty Australian dollars each. What they’re doing is they’re actually funding the shows. So just quick information, we have about three hundred people we’re expecting to attend, but the problem with that is venues are quite tricky to find. We’re still looking for places to accommodate our rising numbers, and pretty much the only way we can do any of this is through pre-ordering t-shirts. Otherwise we have to charge at the door, or something like that. So basically, we have these cool t-shirts ready for you, and they’re actually quite awesome. You can choose from two different colors, and if you would like a t-shirt, please, please, please pre-order ASAP through Mugglecast.com, and you will get one. You can choose what event you’ll be at. It will be amazing. These shows are going to be great. We have lots of cool stuff planned, and I think the official dates are the 19th of October in Sydney, after school for those people who were worried, the school kids, and the 21st of October in Melbourne, mid-afternoon.

Andrew: Awesome.

Eric: And that’s pretty much it. Mugglecast Down Under in a box.

Andrew: Laura… Thank you, Eric. Laura and I were talking about this earlier, and we realized you really have your act together for this. This is pretty impressive.

Laura: Yeah. It’s really well-organized. I was very impressed.

Andrew: You got quite a good event going on here. Not to say that we didn’t think you could do it, but you got quite the event going on here.

Eric: No, no, no, not at all. And I will ask you guys, as soon as we have a venue, I’m going to ask you guys to try and contribute content. Because depending on what kind of multimedia stuff we can get, I want – if you could record a bit of video or something for the Sydney fans.

Andrew: Yeah, that’d be fun. Just for the Sydney fans.

Laura: Yeah, that’s cool.

Eric: Well, and the Melbourne fans as well. But the Australians are going to want you there, so it’s just natural that you have a hand in the show.

Andrew: Yeah. I’m going to have Steve Erwin in mine.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Well, I might have to edit it.

Andrew: Why?

Eric: Because we’re looking to have a projector screen and stuff at some of the venues, and we’re actually looking in lecture theaters and stuff like that, sort of around the unis is our current status. So…

Jerry: That’s cool.

Andrew: Cool.

Laura: Andrew, you just reminded me of being at the aquarium.

Andrew: Why?

Laura: Do you remember that? When we were at the manta ray tank.

Andrew: Oh, yeah.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Wait, what? Oh, god. I already know what happened, without knowing the story. It’s horrible.

Announcements: Ringtones and Jamie

Andrew: Hey, don’t forget, Mugglecast ring tones are also available over on Mugglecast.com. I really need to add a link. I’m going to add a link on the Mugglecast website. I just realized that there is no link, so that’s probably why nobody’s getting them right now. So there are Mugglecast ringtones for sale, right now my wizard rock single is – I’m going to get the Mugglecast theme song up there sometime this week as well, so be sure to check them out. They’re only a few dollars, and we only get about half of that, so it goes to supporting the show. So thank you very much if you do purchase one. Another more depressing announcement.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Jamie is going to be off the show for awhile because he is back in school, so he won’t be on for a few weeks. And I’m just saying it because otherwise we’re going to start getting emails once he starts disappearing for a couple weeks. So, just so everyone knows now, he will be off the show until his winter break because internet does not work there at Durham University. Well, his internet connection is not fast.

Jerry: And winter break is about the first week of December.

Eric: You hear that, Durham? You’re slow.

Andrew: However, Pickle Pack members are still getting a dose of Jamie every week because that still works for him.

Eric: Yeah that we can’t exactly…

Laura: When do they go on winter break there?

Andrew: Ummm, early.

Laura: Is it the beginning of December?

Jerry: Yeah about, first week.

Andrew: I’m guessing it’s the beginning…

Jerry: The first week.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: Oh, okay. That’s not bad.

Andrew: Yeah, okay. And also just one thing I wanted to touch on quick because we do have all this new studio equipment, well I do here in my room, I just wanted to mention we are starting to consider taking, doing more regular live shows. We actually did a test live show just for Pickle Pack members via Ustream on Friday, and that went over pretty well. We had some technical glitches but it was a test to show, it was a test show to make sure everything is working okay which it seems like it. We’re still ironing out a couple of glitches but once we get through those we should be able to put together some seriously good live broadcasts. And we want to know what everyone thinks about that, maybe like once a month doing a live show. And one of the things we started considering as of lately was having Eric and Laura and even Micah come over to my house to record together, because if we’re all together to record, not only would we interact a lot better but it would also sound a lot better. I mean these sounds – these episodes do sound pretty good edited but just the interaction you would notice better chemistry, better quality, just overall a better show.

[Everyone laughs]

Muggle Mail: Refilling Basin

Andrew: Okay, yeah, let’s move on to some Muggle Mail now…

Eric: Ooo.

Andrew: …because you guys don’t want to call them rebuttals, I don’t know. I guess this first email is a rebuttal.

Eric: From Kevin, age 19, location Germany. Subject is the refilling basin, not an inconsistency. Heard about us from the MuggleNet main page.

“In episode 115, Laura, Kevin, and Eric were talking about the Horcrux in the cave and how Voldemort had to refill the basin when he’d made Kreacher drink the poison. You said it was a small inconsistency but it doesn’t necessarily have to be one. You have to realize that the locket wasn’t in the basin before Kreacher had emptied it. Voldemort only dropped it there afterwards (see chapter 10). This leads me to the thought that whatever potion was in the basin in the first place was probably not exactly the same one Regulus and Dumbledore drank later. It might not have even been made by Voldemort because why would he fill the basin without putting his Horcrux in first. So, I think he used a potion which would refill itself after someone drank it and he filled the basin with it for the first time at his trip with Kreacher. I know I might be nitpicking, but it’s fun.”

And then there’s a little emoticon.

“Hear you all, love the show, Kevin.”

Laura: Hmmm…

Jerry: I would have thought that Voldemort would’ve put potion in first so to make Kreacher drink it just to test the potions efficiency.

Laura: Yeah, that’s what I thought.

Eric: Does he test his own work? Does he have faith in his own kind of thing by now? Is he suave in his step?

Jerry: Depends on how egotistical he was then, doesn’t it?

Eric: Yeah, it does.

Muggle Mail: Micah Not Seeing Order of the Phoenix Early

Andrew: Yeah. The next rebuttal comes from Laurel, 22, of New York. She writes:

“Just wanted to send a note in defense of Micah not having seen the most recent movie right when it came out.”

Because as most people know we were ragging on Micah a couple days ago or a couple weeks ago for not seeing the show. Well, you guys were. Sorry, not seeing the movie yet.

Laura: Yeah, it was me and Jamie.

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]

“A person’s love of a book, any book, cannot be measured by their excitement, or lack thereof, to see the movie. That would sort of be like saying that a person doesn’t legitimately enjoy Charles Dickens writing if they weren’t first in line to see ‘Great Expectations.’ I consider myself a very devoted fan of the ‘Harry Potter’ series and read all of the books many times, but I have not yet felt any need to see all of the movies. I did see the first movie and was rather disappointed and so I skipped the next few and only saw the most recent because a rather attractive guy asked me to go with him.”


Laura: Oooh.

Andrew: “Anyway, the point is, give him a break guys. The movie doesn’t even compare to the books. Apples and Oranges, folks.” Ummm, I like to stick up for…

Laura: Okay…

Andrew: …Laura and Jamie right off the bat and say that they were just playing.

Laura: Yeah, we really weren’t being serious. And also, we do run a Harry Potter talk show, so…

Andrew: Yeah, so it is important…

Eric: We are expected to see this kind of stuff. But at the same time I mean I guess apples and oranges. But yeah, wow, that’s interesting seeing the first movie and being so disappointed that you wait until the fifth. Huh.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: And only because an attractive guy asked you out.

Eric: Yeah, well clearly there’s other things…

Laura: That’s a good reason to go.

Eric: …on your mind, which is great you’re a more well rounded human being than us geeks, but…

[Eric and Andrew laugh]

Eric: …that’s sad. Ummm, anyway…

Andrew: I mean so it was just something I wanted to point out, that we’re not – most of the time we joke on here and I don’t know if you guys know Jamie very well but when he tends to run into like a good joke or something he likes to run with it and keep going with it, for the duration of an episode. Say like the Prison Break thing, or this. There’s other examples, I can’t just…

Laura: Yeah, and we all like to give each other a hard time like…

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: Because we’re all friends here so…

Andrew: Yeah and it was funny because once, while I was editing that show Micah saw it, he wanted to see it before I actually released the show because he was afraid that he would get too much crap about that, so…

[Laura and Eric laugh]

Andrew: So, there’s also a second part of this email that Laura and I guess the rest – and I sort of wanted to address too.

Laura: Yeah.

Muggle Mail: Harry’s Fate

Andrew: “There’s one other little thing that I thought I’d mention since I am writing in and it has been bugging me for quite a while. I can’t remember which host said this but before Deathly Hallows came out, and you all were debating whether or not Harry would die, it was mentioned several times that basically once he killed Voldemort, Harry wouldn’t have anything to live for since Dumbledore, Sirius, and his parents were dead. So he might as well kick it. That sentiment struck me as unbelievably heartless and really disgustingly insensitive. Millions of people grow up without parents or family, but God willing, they have to move on. Hopefully, putting the worst of it behind them and get through it. I would like to think that a character, about whom seven books have been written, countless website devoted to, and who is the subject of your very own podcast, would have the strength of will to overcome such a misfortune and go on to lead a healthy life. I just hate to think of any people or children out there who have suffered the loss of their family and loved ones hearing you guys saying that they don’t have anything to live for. Maybe an apology would be in order. Anyway, sorry for the overall critical tone of this e-mail. I really do like your podcast and have enjoyed your debates and speculations on the books. Keep on keeping on. Cheers, Laurel.”

Eric: Okay, whereas I was thinking – whereas we weren’t really joking about Micah, we were really serious he’s a loser for not seeing the movies, we were actually joking about this whole Harry should kick the bucket thing. I don’t know who said it, I don’t think it was me, but we are not condoning that people with no parents and no family should die and that’s…

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: …that’s just the bottom line. That actually was a joke. I’m sure, I’m sure it was a joke. Without knowing who said it, I know that it was a joke.

Andrew: It sounds like something I would say. I don’t know.

Laura: Well, and also remember during the lead up to Book 7, we had the debate segment a lot and a lot of what the debate segment was surrounded around was stuff like should Harry live or should Harry die. So, and what I think listeners should know is that we would randomly be assigned sides to these issues and we had to argue them even if we didn’t agree with them. So it wasn’t necessarily a matter of I do think Harry should die, it’s a matter of oh we’re having this debate to bring forth different viewpoints so I’m going to argue that Harry has to die. It’s not actually that we thought he should. You know?

Andrew: Right.

Eric: And I assure the world that we’re all glad that he didn’t.

Laura: He… uh yeah, okay. Again I bawled through the whole chapter where I thought he was going to. I was very upset.

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]

Laura: I was relieved when he didn’t and I really don’t think that – even if anybody on the show did say that Harry, who is a fictional character, should die because they feel like most of his loved ones are dead and that I don’t know if they would think that he would be reunited with them in the after world, that’s the only way I could think of anybody actually justifying that, I really don’t think that can actually be linked to us saying that real people have nothing to live for if their family’s dead.

Eric: That is well, yeah. That’s true. That’s an inappropriate connection.

Laura: I don’t think anybody on this show would ever say that.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah, so we’ll move on from that, but every once in a while we like to clear things up.

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: Okay.

Andrew: That was one thing.

Muggle Mail: Pettigrew in Gryffindor?

Eric: From Zarah, age 14, location West Plains Montana. Right, MO?

Andrew: Missouri! Missouri!

Eric: Oh, what?

Andrew: Oh come on. You’ve been out of this country way too long.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: Time to come back buddy.

Eric: What’s Montana then? MA?

Jerry: Oooh.

Andrew: MN.

Eric: MN? That’s Minnesota dude.

Andrew: Is it?

Eric: Yes, it’s Minnesota.

Andrew: I’m pretty sure.

Eric: Jerry, Jerry, resident Brit, look it up. Find out what MO is. In the mean time…

Laura: MO is Missouri.

Eric: [laughs] “Why was Pettigrew in Gryffindor? On Episode 115 I really liked Micah’s explanation of why Pettigrew was a Gryffindor.”

Me too.

“However, as I was listening to the voicemail I immediately thought of Dumbledore’s quote in ‘Deathly Hallows.’ Sometimes I think we sort too early. I’m not saying Dumbledore was referring to Pettigrew as well as Snape, but it is possible” – or rather – “is it possible that Pettigrew was braver when he was 11, and that he grew to be a coward as he aged. I’d love to hear what you think, and Laura you’re my favorite. Pickles, Zarah.”

Laura: Awww, thank you.

[Jerry laughs]

Andrew: I just want to clear up real quick, Minnesota is MN, Missouri is MO, Montana is MT.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: So does that mean I was right the entire time? [laughs] Ha! Oh yeah!

Andrew: No.

Eric: 10 years in a foreign country, American-ness still intact!

Andrew: What are you talking about?

Laura: What?

Andrew: What are you – you said Montana.

Laura: [laughs] Montana.

Eric: Yeah, was MO.

Andrew: No!

Laura: No.

Andrew: MO is Missouri.

Laura: It’s Missouri. [laughs]

Eric: You said MT was…

Jerry: I’m having fun.

Andrew: No, MT is Montana.

[Laura laughs]

Jerry: Listeneres will judge.

Andrew: I’m looking at the United States Postal Service website.

Eric: It’s your neck if it’s MA.

Andrew: It’s not MA. Laura did I say that? Jerry?

Laura: No, you said it right.

Andrew: Yeah, I had it right.

Eric: Sorry. Sorry, Missouri is – well I was right about Minnesota though. Minnesota is MN.

Andrew: I said Minnesota is.

[Laura laughs]

Whatever. No. Okay maybe you were right about that I thought Montana was MN.

Eric: But we’re both wrong. We’re both wrong, and that’s okay.

Andrew: Well, ut you were wrong first. So, I beat someone.

Eric: I was, yes, I was. I concede.

Andrew: Okay. Next rebuttal, Lisa, 27 of Charlotte – oh, was there anything else to talk about, about that other e-mail?

Laura: Ummm.

Eric: Just Dumbledore and asking whether or not that related to Pettigrew, if he was born a coward or if he was raised a coward.

Andrew: Oh right, right, right. I think we’ve talked about this on the show, people can change.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: I mean, especially in the beginning of their magical career ’til the end. Like…

Eric: So do you think…

Andrew: I think that’s why we’re saying the Sorting Hat is almost flawed because, you know?

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: It sorts you – but, then again, is it smart enough to really put you in the right house through your entire seven-year career?

Laura: Yeah, I mean it can’t really tell what you’re going to grow up to be necessarily. I mean, there’s no proof that Pettigrew was going to grow up and end up betraying his friends to their deaths. So….

Andrew: Right.

Eric: Hmmm. Then again, he could have chose…

Jerry: Hmmm.

Eric: As we talked about last week, there was a pretty good point raised about how he could choose to go to Gryffindor because you know, he didn’t want to be with the scary Slytherins, but at the same time you know, he ended up in the house of their mortal enemies, so. Yeah.

Muggle Mail: Expelliarmus

Andrew: Right. Next rebuttal comes from Lisa, 27, from Charlotte, North Carolina.

Eric: What was that Andrew? Next rebuttal?

Andrew: Next MuggleMail. Whatever. I’m going to say rebuttals forever when I do that transition.

Eric: Fair enough.

Andrew: Next MuggleMail,Lisa, 27 from Charlotte, NC, that’s North Carolina for those of us living in New Zealand and completely lost touch with the United States.

[Eric laughs]

“There was an argument about whether Harry defeating Voldemort with the Expelliarmus spell was not a good ending. Well, JKR set us up to know how very important that spell was in one single line. Please remember when the DA first got together in ‘Order of the Phoenix’ and Harry wanted to teach them to disarm, and one of them thought it was a waste of time. Harry said that the spell had saved his life. There’s your connection, the spell saves his life and therefore it is important. I guess I kind of look at it as foreshadowing, what do you think? Next I agree with Laura, Voldemort was too smart for his own good. It’s like Einstein, he was a genius but couldn’t write a grocery list. Also, Eric have a Coke and smile man, you seem uptight!”

[Laura and Eric laugh]

I don’t think so.

Eric: Well, thank you Andrew, no no I – I’m still not convinced though.

Andrew: Bad week?

Eric: I’m still not convinced.

Andrew: Oh.

Eric: I mean, I love the scene in Order of the Phoenix when, it was when Zacharias Smith was in the DA and he was talking about, oh you know we’re going to learn how to use Expelliarmus and that’s going to save our life, and Harry just with that snappy retort like, it saved mine last year. That was good, but I didn’t expect Jo to pull that card for the next two books. I mean, I thought it was a good sort of, you know, realization, but just the fact that the final battle ended in Expelliarmus is still and may always be just disappointing for me. I’m sorry I feel that way. I’m really sorry Lisa from NC, North Carolina, now that I’m knowing the postal things again. I’m sorry, but I think I’ll always feel that Expelliarmus was a rip off, and I’ll always feel like it was used too many times, just like Polyjuice Potion and stuff. I just wish it were different, that’s all.

Andrew: But I think Lisa provides a good argument, I mean.

Laura: Yeah, I think so too.

Eric: What, that it saved his life there, therefore it should be used every single time Harry has to escape a battle?

Andrew: I don’t… I don’t…

Laura: No, but it is a nice little bit of foreshadowing.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: Like Harry specifically said “it saved me from him last summer” so I mean it saved him from Voldemort who had just gotten his body back, and was somewhat at the height of his newly-restored power because Harry didn’t really know anything about Horcruxes at that time.

Andrew: Right, right.

Eric: Well…

Laura: He didn’t have the knowledge that he did in Book 7, so…

Eric: Can you call it foreshadowing, or just a reoccurring plot theme, or plot device, or something. You know, plot device. Harry needs to defeat a wizard that’s over competent for him, Expelliarmus!

Laura: Well it could be, yeah, it can be a recurring plot device that’s also used for foreshadowing.

Eric: Yeah, I’m just trying to – see, I’m trying to strip everything that I thought would be foreshadowed as opposed to everything that turned out wasn’t, so for instance we can’t really talk about certain things about the chamber. There were certain references people picked out to the Chamber of Secrets in Book 5 and 6 thinking that it was going to be a really big thing in Book 7 and it wasn’t, and so a lot of people I just know were disappointed. I mean, I guess this rebuttal is pretty – this rebuttal is alright. Sorry, I seem so uptight! I should sing and dance a little bit more. If you guys watch my Blickles, I sing and dance all the time. But you know, whatever.

Muggle Mail: Attendance in Book 7

Andrew: One final e-mail this week, comes from Rebecca, 20 of Boone, North Carolina. She writes:

“Hey guys, love the show! I’m listening to Episode 115 right now, and you brought up the point that why would parents of any normal, ie non DA or kid of a Death Eater student, allow them to remain at Hogwarts while it was obviously overrun by dark magic. I’m currently rereading Book 7 and on page 210, Lupin tells the trio, attendance to Hogwarts is now compulsory for every young witch and wizard. It’s a change, because it was never obligatory before. Thanks a lot for the awesome podcast, y’all.”

Okay, well thanks for clearing that up.

Eric: Yeah, that was intelligent.

Laura: Yup.

Andrew: A little sarcasm, what?

Eric: No, I was not being sarcastic.

Andrew: Okay.

Eric: Why do people think I’m being sarcastic? That’s why a lot of people really – no no, that was really intelligent, that was…

Jerry: Maybe you’re picking up a New Zealand tinge in your voice, and it’s making you come off a bit sarcastic.

Eric: You know, I hear Australians are the most sarcastic people in the world. I don’t know if that’s true.

Jerry: Mhm.

Eric: They also talk about goats a lot, but that’s a side reference.

[Jerry and Eric laugh]

Just the Australians I’ve met working for this event. But apparently sarcasm – no, but I really liked that. That was – and that quote, I don’t know how they would make people go to Hogwarts. That’s cool that they are, but that’s just, yeah.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah. So, that’s good.

Main Discussion: The Morality of Dumbledore

Andrew: Yeah, so this week, our main discussion, quit a lengthy and sure to be interesting discussion written up by Eric.

Eric: Woot!

Andrew: The Morality of Dumbledore a.k.a. the Magical Pig. Am I missing something here?

[Eric laughs]

Laura: Yeah, I don’t…

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: No, it is like Harry Plopper from The Simspons Movie. But that is what I thought of when I wrote “The Magical Pig” which was the original title of this discussion.

Andrew: Oh okay.

Eric: You guys it will make sense in a while I will tell you.

Jerry: Okay.

Eric: It is time to reach a conclusion here as we have seen seven books of happenings to guide us. Few episodes – okay, blah. few episodes ago we were asked if it was “Moral” the Dumbledore may have been and I quote “Raising Harry like a pig for slaughter,” do you guys get it now. And are you familiar with the term?

Laura: Yeah.

Jerry: Mhm, vaguely.

Eric: “The Magical Pig.”

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: Dumbledore is raising Harry for slaughter, okay. It is true that in seven books Harry has Dumbledore guiding him subtly and not so subtly until finally becoming the one that maps out his entire fate. Therefore, was it morally correct encouraging Harry psyching him into battling Voldemort when the outcome was likely to be Harry’s own death or is Harry was the only one who could defeat Voldemort, is it good that Dumbledore bestowed so much care and guidance, love that Dumbledore showed in raising Harry to fight that it overrules anything bad or was Dumbledore just saving his own skin or putting the Wizarding World before a boy? What do you guys think, just generally on the side?

Andrew: But was it likely? Was the outcome likely to be Harry’s own death?

Eric: Well, I think it was. Wasn’t it?

Andrew: When we go back to point one?

Eric: Well, ever since the day…

Laura: Well, yeah.

Eric: …of the prophecy “No one can live while the other survives.”

Andrew: Well, I don’t see how it is likely if he would end up living throughout the story anyway.

Eric: He died. You remember.

Laura: Well, I think…

Eric: He did die.

Laura: …no he did not die.

Andrew: He didn’t die. He was in Limbo. He came close I guess you can say.

Laura: Yeah he was between worlds, but I think a lot of the point was that Dumbledore had to be very, I guess, categorical in his raising of Harry. Like, instilling in him the unconditional moral obligation that was binding in every circumstance. And it was not dependent at all upon Harry’s purpose. So like, Harry could not know that he had to die or else that might have changed his perception of how he should fight up until that point. Because, but Dumbledore not telling – by Dumbledore not allowing Harry to have that knowledge until the last possible minute, it really made all the difference. Because Harry really was not looking toward to the final battle as “I have to die” in Book 4. He was looking towards, as “I have to defeat Voldemort.” So, he does not have the whole idea of his death looming over him. Which I think was a big crucial part of this.

Eric: Well…

Jerry: It definitely is a case of knowing something about yourself affecting the way you see the situation. I mean, I have just been reading – not to make a tangent here – His Dark Materials and that’s also got permissive about the main character having a destiny to fulfill that is they knew for themselves it would change the entire course of the experience.

Eric: Well, that’s is the thing. So much of Harry’s destiny wasn’t certain it just seems that Dumbledore is a manipulating old man. Maybe we were meant to think that in light of Book 7 but it just seems that Dumbledore manipulated Harry quite a bit and it does not even matter not telling him his destiny that he could face his destiny because from what Dumbledore said a lot of the prophecy was, you know, kind of set in store only if Voldemort acted on it and Voldemort would always choose to act on it and sort of other stuff would happen and it was not entirely clear. So what I have done is I have mapped out some examples of times in the book when Harry looked up to Dumbledore. So, all you guys have this so I would not mind if you guys take turns reading so it is not all me talking. So, Laura?

MuggleCast 116 Transcript (continued)

Mirror of Erised

Laura: Well, first of all what we have here is that Dumbledore saw his family in the Mirror of Erised just as Harry had and he lied about what he saw. He told Harry that he saw socks and so by doing this he was keeping a distance from Harry?

Andrew: [laughs] But is it a lie though? Like, it is so stupid that Harry’s…

Eric: Well no, it’s not.

Andrew: …he is joking isn’t he?

Eric: [laughs] and it is funny I guess I should not have made the first point, He lied about socks [laughs] for the discussion, but…

Laura: But, I do not think that the point here is that he was trying to distance himself from Harry but I think that it was very painful for Dumbledore to look in the mirror…

Andrew: Oh yeah.

Laura: …and see his family there.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: It is probably not something that he wanted to talk about.

Jerry: Mhm.

Laura: And Harry even noted that it had been a very personal question.

Dishonesty Early On

Eric: Okay. Okay so how about then, and this is the first disappointment I had. Number two, at the end of Book one in the hospital wing, Harry asked him flat out the first question and it references later in the books, he asked why Voldemort wanted to kill him and Dumbledore does not really tell him and that really is understandable. He justified it in Book 5, was it? That Harry was too young to know of the prophecy, I am kind of okay with that but lets move on to the Book 2 events.

Laura: Really?

Eric: Yeah might be, might be. [laughs]

Laura: Well see, I am kind of surprised that you would say that because I love the way that she did it in the book think the point was to show that Dumbledore was not perfect and to take – I guess the best move that he could have taken would have been to keep Harry informed about the prophecy from the start probably. Honesty is the best policy.

Eric: Hm.

Laura: So, when you look at Dumbledore, like if that were a real life scenario that would be a huge problem but he waited five years until after Voldemort had come back and Voldemort had killed people that Harry cared about to actually tell Harry what his….

Eric: Well, wait a minute you are right. Wait a minute, he only told Harry about the prophecy after Sirius was dead.

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: So maybe there is more to be gained by this whole – Laura you are right. You bring life into my own eyes, I appreciate well…

Laura: Well, I think the point is that Dumbledore was human and made mistakes.

Eric: Yeah.

Laura: And his mistake was he cared too much. And he did not want to worry Harry. So…

Eric: In this main discussion I do not want to just say that Dumbledore is a flawed character. I agree with that. I am sure we all agree with that now. I want to determine that Dumbledore was, not sinister but seriously flawed. Beyond the sort the compassion of an old man. Some of this stuff as the title or the ex-title says, “Harry was raised like a pig for slaughter.” Dumbledore just basically focused all of his attention to Voldemort and that is all Harry could think about and often times ignored Harry and treated him “questionably.”

Back to the Mirror

Andrew: Yeah. I sort of want to – are we going to go to all these points and try to defend Dumbledore too? Because, for the first point I sort of want to stick up for Dumbledore and say that Harry was too young at the end of Sorcerer’s Stone when they were looking into the Mirror of Erised. I think that one is excusable, you cannot go into details with Harry at that point.

Eric: Well, Dumbledore could have warmed up to him and said, “You know I see my family too. We come from similar families and I know what it is like to lose a brother too.” You know? He could have, you know, lose a…

Andrew: “And, that is that.”

Eric: They could have said that.

Andrew: “Tell you more six years from now.”

Laura: Yeah, but also think about the student-teacher relationship.

Eric: Yeah.

Laura: And I mean…

Andrew: You have to keep the distance.

Laura: …obviously that changed a lot as the books went on as things got more serious, but I am sure at that point Dumbledore was thinking about protecting Harry by not becoming overly-involved in his life because what else could to do to Harry Potter to make Voldemort want to kill him more.

Eric: Yeah.

Laura: …than being best friends with Dumbledore.

Eric: That is true.

Jerry: Well, I think we can safely say though, that even if Dumbledore hadn’t talked to Harry about [break in audio] and Dumbledore visits the young Tom Riddle in the orphanage in that scene, and Tom Riddle asks him if Dumbledore is going to keep and eye on him, and Dumbledore says, “Of course.” I’m sure Tom Riddle didn’t know most of the time that Dumbledore was thinking about him, but I’m sure he was.

Laura: Yeah, that’s true.

Eric: Good point, Jerry.

Asking For Answers in Book 2

Andrew: In Book 2, Dumbledore does not confide in Harry, but instead asks Harry to confide in him to guilt Harry to be entirely open with him.

Laura: What are you talking about?

Andrew: Yeah, what are you talking about?

Eric: Do you remember the scene, well at least in the movie, where Dumbledore asks Harry, “Do you have anything you wish to tell me?” And Harry really feels guilty that he is not telling Dumbledore about the voices he is hearing in the corridores.

Jerry: Yeah.

Andrew: Oh yeah.

Laura: Right, yeah, that was in the book.

Andrew: Did that happen in the book?

Eric: It’s in the book as well.

Laura: Yeah, I think so.

Eric: It seems that Harry only found out that the Chamber was openned through Dobby, through Collin Crevey in the hospital wing that night, and maybe it was Dumbledore’s intentional wording to say that the Chamber of Secrets has been openned again, but it just seems like sort of an off hand thing where Dumbledore lets Harry get up to his own stuff, but then when it comes time and Harry actually does find the culprit, as he tends to do, it just seems like Dumbledore is like, “Well have a way at it, Harry.” You know? And he just let’s Harry deal with everything, and it is one thing to let Harry be free, but Dumbledore really could have invested a little bit more time in not only just talking to Harry, but Dumbledore could have had a bigger presence in the outcome of Book 2, I think. Not that Harry needed him there, because he did fine on his own, but I think it would have been a lot less dangerous for a 12-year old in the Chamber of Secrets with a basalisk if Dumbledore was on his side. We see this great scene in Book 6 where he says, “I am with you Harry,” and there is this whole Dumbledore-Harry thing. I am saying that could have happened as early as Book 2. If anything, Dumbledore the headmaster of the school, knowing so much about the school and sort of leaving Harry to his own accord with Hermoine Granger who thank god wasn’t killed, but petrified searching the library and finding out what the creature was. I’m saying Dumbledore could have had a little bit more of a hand in that, don’t you guys think?

Andrew: I guess so.

Laura: So, you’re basically you are saying that Dumbledore should have been more involved in the investigation that the trio was doing in the Chamber?

Eric: In Book 2 it’s interesting how Dumbledore behaves, because of all the uh – when Fawks bursts into flames and Harry get’s sent to his office after the Justin Finch-Fletchly incident, he basically says, “I don’t suspect you, but I’d like you to tell me everything you know.” That’s like sucking Harry dry for information and not giving any in return in a way. I mean…

Laura: Well…

Eric: …he gets his concent sort of thing where he is like, “I am not going to convict you, blah, blah, blah,” but it just seems like there is some part of Dumbledore that is never fully explained about why he doesn’t really care as such. He has his own headmaster duties to attend to I’m sure, but if the whole thing is about preparing for Voldemort, Dumbledore could have been doing it a lot earlier than he was. Maybe that is a character flaw.

Andrew: I think if Dumbledore were to get involved with the trio’s discovery of the Chamber of Secrets and learning more about it, I think he would have been either too afraid to give them too much information or just he didn’t want to help them, because again the student-teacher relationship, helping them get into the Chamber of Secrets and discover it, he would – what’s the wor for it?

Eric: I’m not saying he could help them, I’m saying he could…

Andrew: He would approve of it.

Eric: I’m saying he could prevent them. He could find it first or something. In a way, Dumbledore might not have known that Harry could speak parseltongue until at least the event at the dueling club, but I think that it just would make sense, even in the myth and the lore of the Chamber – a monster that only the heir of Slytherin could control, Dumbledore knew by this point that Voldemort was the heir of Slytherin or the current heir of Slytherin or highly suspected him or something, and there should just have been a little more caution taken by Dumbledore. We don’t know what steps Dumbledore took in the school. The school was facing closure.

Jerry: Mhm.

Eric: Dumbledore himself was expelled, in what? You didn’t hear it in Two? As early as Year 2, it seems like there is merrit in all of these things that the Ministry is saying. I mean all these attacks and Dumbledore is just sitting there.

Andrew: Yeah…

Laura: I just can’t help but wonder what else he could do. I just don’t feel like that even if he were willing to help the trio find the Chamber, I don’t think that they would have confided that in him.

Eric: I don’t think that they – and that’s fair enough. He did ask Harry to confide in him. Harry said “no,” and that’s a lie. You are right in a way, but additionally, Dumbledore could find the cave, and know what you had to do to open the cave, terrific, how to pull the boat even though you can’t see the chain, and that’s not enough. He’s not a Parseltongue. I do think, it just seems that Harry, Dumbeldore lets Harry do his discovering all year, but it just doesn’t seem very wise as a parental figure or as the headmaster of a school to let your students go in danger without first knowing the extent of it yourself is quite dangerous, and no matter what Dumbledore says about wanting to give Harry a fighting chance, it just doesn’t seem all that practical.

Jerry: I guess what you have to…

Andrew: Maybe Dumbledore… Yeah?

Jerry: I guess what you have to say is that looking past the actual characters themselves, if Dumbledore had all the answers and helped Harry along it wouldn’t have been a very good book, would it? It would be hardly any character development and there would be hardly any story.

Laura: That’s the thing.

Eric: Oh Jerry! Don’t tell me it wouldn’t have made a good book!

[Jerry laughs]

Eric: It would have made a great book.

Jerry: It would have been a lot shorter.

Andrew: Maybe Dumbledore would have stepped in if he had realized they weren’t doing what had to be done. Or maybe he was keeping an eye on them and checking in to see what they were up to. And plus, he needs to let Harry do these things on his own so that he can be prepared for fighting Voldemort in the end.

Eric: That is exactly what we are talking about, Andrew.

Andrew: What?

Eric: We are talking about raising Harry as a pig for the slaughter, so is Dumbledore or isn’t Dumbledore doing that?

Andrew: Dumbledore…

Jerry: I think if he was raising him as a pig for the slaughter, he wouldn’t have done anything to help him, not anything.If he wanted to…

Eric: Why not?

Jerry: …he would have stopped adventuring because all that stuff, built up his courage and the scars. Dumbledore would have wanted to raise him as a placid pig.

Harry “The Fighter” Serves Everyone’s Best Interest

Eric: Well why not? It’s in everybody’s best interest that Harry is a trained fighter. It’s in everybody’s best interest that I’m just taking an interesting stand point here, or trying to. [laughs]

Laura: Right. Well, the question is then, did Dumbledore know that Harry wouldn’t die, because if he knew that Harry wasn’t going to die, then he knew that he wasn’t raising him as a pig for the slaughter. Snape just thought he was. See what I’m saying?

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Well, I don’t think that he thought he really was going to die, but at the same time you bring up a fair point about…

Laura: Well I think there was though.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Knowing that the blood relation or whatever since Voldemort shared Harry’s blood, it tied him too the earth, etc. The thing is and I don’t think you guys, I mean maybe you guys picked this up, but Dumbledore told Harry he had a choice whether or not he was actually dead at the scene. He could choose to have died at that very moment or he could chosen to go back and feign death for a little bit and then defeat Voldemort, and Harry did choose life which is a great big thing about choices, but because of the ambiguity or because of the choice Harry had to die or to live I still consider that moment as Harry’s death in a way. I mean your heart can stop beating and it can still start up again. You know what I’m saying? So, I choose to believe that Harry did die when that happened, and it’s simply that, you know, he chose to come back and he was able to like Neo – like Neo, you know in the Matrix? But, you know – but I choose to believe he died, and I also choose to believe death was a necessary part of the thing for Harry. That’s my chain of reasoning for that, and even though he did come back.

Andrew: Mhm.

Eric: I would like to think that Harry did die, and that’s why – that’s where the fuel is coming saying the inevitability of Harry’s death makes him being raised by Dumbledore.

Laura: Well, see, I don’t think he died, though. Because…

Andrew: He died. Jo said this herself, I think.

Laura: Well…

Eric: There are points where Harry’s scar hurts so much that he thinks he’s going to blank out. That’s almost dying, or that’s almost passing out.

Andrew: All right.

Laura: Yeah, that’s kind of far away from dying.

Jerry: Well, I think you can say that part of the soul that’s living inside him died, and perhaps that’s what allowed him to experience that…

Andrew: Yeah.

Jerry: …near-death experience.

Andrew: That was it, wasn’t it?

Laura: Yeah, but it was a near-death – see, I don’t…

Eric: But, you see, he’s come so close to near-death, is all I’m saying. I want something to make this special in my mind, because he’s gone – Harry’s gone so close to near-death. He’s head has been splitting in two, he’s been possessed, he’s this and that, and the other thing, and it’s just – that’s why I just pass it off as this was a death of Harry’s. I mean it was Harry’s death even if…

Laura: But see…

Eric: Even if he was faking it the entire time, and maintaining consciousness. It was a death of Harry’s, as far as many people are concerned.

Laura: I think the important concept here isn’t necessarily his death, but his willingness to die for those people at Hogwarts, because it wasn’t – I mean, yes, Lily’s death was that act that actually gave Harry the blood protection, but it was her willingness behind it, her absolutely laying her life down, with no questions, that gave Harry that protection, and I think Harry having that same willingness for the people at Hogwarts is really what is important.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: And that’s what protected them, not that he died.

Eric: Did he have this willingness, or that Dumbledore…

Laura: Yes, he…

Eric: Dumbledore himself was dead.

Laura: He walks to his death.

Eric: Everybody else was dead, you know, Harry had nothing to live for in his own mind. And please don’t write in – please, he’s not saying he had nothing to live for.

Laura: Wait a second. Ginny, Ron, Hermione, the Weasley’s minus Fred, they were still all alive.

Eric: I was just proven wrong. I just – I stand corrected.

Jerry: You could have just said Ron.

Eric: Well, Dumbledore himself – I’m saying this could all be an affect of what Dumbledore bestowed in Harry. You know what I’m saying? That’s – that again is the point of the main discussion. I’m saying that all of these thoughts could just be Dumbledore’s inside Harry, and was it moral for Dumbledore to do this to Harry, to make him, you know, not value himself over anybody else, and, you know what? Maybe that’s a trait Harry already had.

Did Dumbledore Brainwash Harry?

Jerry: Are you saying that effectively, Dumbledore brainwashed him?

Andrew: Yeah, he sort of did.

Eric: Well, did he – did he? That’s the question. Did he is the very question and we should just continue this, because we got a lot to get through, but I’ll skip it. I’ll skip it.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: I mean, because…

Andrew: Well, okay, let’s talk about brainwashing real quick. I don’t – I don’t think he brainwashed him, because he wasn’t really giving him anything.

Laura: Yeah, exactly.

Andrew: He was brainwashing in the sense that – well, okay, no. He just wasn’t brainwashing him. He…

Jerry: He was more like conditioning him.

Andrew: He was fooling him.

Eric: Well, hy didn’t he tell him…

Laura: He constantly – he constantly gave Harry a choice.

Jerry: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: A choice? Was that really wise, then? To give Harry a choice all the time if – I mean, if…

Andrew: Yeah, because I think this is all part of his training.

Laura: Yes. This is all part of his training to become, you know, to be able to fight Voldemort.

Eric: I still think it’s like – I just think it’s like giving Harry choices like faking giving him a choice, because he didn’t have a choice, did he? He couldn’t walk away, because Voldemort would always look for Harry. Harry would never be safe. Him and his loved ones, it’s a Spiderman effect. He wouldn’t…

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: I think he did always allow Harry to go out there and do these things – do all these battles, you know, and in the Chamber of Secrets, in the maze, eventually going to fight Voldemort. But I think that Dumbledore was keeping a close eye on him and was willing and ready to step in if he was ever needed. I mean, you know, like look at Fawkes coming in, in Chamber of Secrets.

Jerry: Hmmm.

Laura: Yeah.

Jerry: He was definitely keeping – I mean we view the events in the book through Harry’s perspective, don’t we? And it’s quite clear that Dumbledore’s keeping a closer eye on Harry than Harry ever realized himself, and therefore, we’re kept in the dark about it too.

Andrew: Mhm.

Eric: But is that – is that moral? I’m not going to ask that question again, I’m just going to – that’s good though. That’s good. I mean, just let’s – let’s just keep going.

The Issues of Horcruxes

Andrew: Let’s keep moving, and then we’ll answer, “Is it moral?” Next point, Book 3.

Eric: Okay, at Book 2’s conclusion Dumbledore gets all the evidence he needs that Voldemort has a Horcrux.

Andrew: Oh…

Eric: He said that to Harry in Book 5 or Book 6, actually. “I thought I had all the evidence right there at the end of Book 2 when you handed me the diary.” But basically, besides standing up to Lucius Malfoy, he pretty much says his “please and thank yous,” and goes on his jolly way. If Dumbledore had banned – and been particularly harsh about banning Horcruxes, and the knowledge of them, as Slughorn says, Dumbledore is “particularly fierce about that kind of talk, and who-ha.” It seems Dumbledore would have banned them before that point in time, so Dumbledore would have banned the books on Horcruxes just after Voldemort left school, or certainly earlier. So, if – my chain of reasoning is that if Dumbledore knew enough about the sort of area that Voldemort was dipping into, ban Horcruxes and the books on Horcruxes from the school libraries, then it shouldn’t have been that much of an epiphany to Dumbledore about the diary, and I don’t think it was. In all of the story telling, Dumbledore was the one that brought up, you know, “I wish – why was it that Lord Voldemort chose to act through Ginny?” or something, and everybody was shocked, and because nobody had mentioned Voldemort, or Ginny, at that point before, you know what I’m saying?

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: So, it’s like Dumbledore just got suspicions, and he got confirmation of suspicions. He basically relied on Harry, in Book 2, to bring him all the evidence he needs that – that Voldemort is making Horcruxes, and it doesn’t seem like that’s safe. I mean, again, it’s Hogwarts…

Andrew: I’m just going to keep on going back to this training thing, because, like, you know, okay, it could come across like Dumbledore’s having Harry do all his dirty work, so to speak, but then Dumbledore’s also doing some dirty work on his own.

Jerry: Mhm.

Andrew: We just don’t really ever hear about it. I mean, like, in Half-Blood Prince, in Order of the Phoenix, we know he’s doing dirty work, we hear that – we hear that he’s up to something, but we don’t know what.

Eric: At least then Harry’s 15. We’re talking about when he’s 12. You know, it’s like the thing. Okay, just like the thing where originally people were saying, “Could 11-year olds find the Sorcerer’s Stone?” Could they, or did Dumbledore want them to? I mean, I think it was an honest mistake that Dumbledore was in London that day, but he did come back and presumably, he actually did save Harry at the end of the first book. Presumably there was some kind of interference with what was left of Quirrell writhing, or whatever.

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: And that would be a good point to bring up in this discussion. But just… Hmmm…

Laura: I think – I think something important to remember, though, is that would Dumbledore put such a high amount of responsibility on any 11-year old’s shoulders? No, he wouldn’t. The reason that Harry is different is because Harry had a full-grown wizard mark him as his equal when he was an infant.

Eric: Well…

Andrew: Mhm.

Laura: So, automatically, that puts him a step above everyone else.

Andrew: Above everyone… Yeah.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Fair point.

Eric: But he’s still a kid. He still needs love. He still needs all sorts of stuff that he hasn’t had and, I mean, Dumbledore felt sorry for him. And I…

Laura: He does, but…

Allowing Harry to Participate in the Triwizard Tournament and Not Recognizing Fake Moody

Eric: I agree that Dumbledore’s compassionate, but let’s continue. In Book 4, the seemingly apparent will of Dumbledore to keep Harry safe, except that it’s under Dumbledore’s order that Harry becomes the unofficial fourth champion. Remember, the founding people of the schools – Beauxbatons and Durmstrang – are kind of pissed at Dumbledore. They think he’s finagling a little bit and – and put Harry’s name in, or whatever. And Dumbledore says, “Well you know, the rules of the Goblet say whoever comes out must go in the thing.” Dumbledore could’ve kind of stopped Harry…

Laura: Actually, wasn’t that Crouch who said that?

Eric: …from going – from being the fourth tournament, from being the fourth champion, but, and this is what I wrote very biasedly, the culprit would only come out if Harry played the game and Dumbledore went all year talking to Moody without realizing that he was Barty Crouch Jr. What the heck? Don’t you know your old friend? What else important was he doing Year Four? I mean, what was Dumbledore doing that made him sort of – and Harry was the fourth champion and that was, if you ask me, that was one of the best examples of using Harry as bait. And he did so, so blindly with Moody being or with Barty Crouch Jr. being right next to Dumbledore all year long. I mean, I’m not saying Dumbledore isn’t a flawed character, because he is, but this – this is a serious flaw, I think.

Andrew: Well, the first point about Dumbledore ordering that Harry still be one of – still compete in the Triwizard Tournament. I mean, I just think that’s Dumbledore believing that whatever Triwizard – the Goblet says should be done. Whatever…

Laura: Also…

Andrew: It was the rules.

Laura: Was it really Dumbledore that said that?

Eric: Is it the rules?

Laura: Wasn’t it – wasn’t it Crouch that said “These are the rules, and he has to compete”?

Eric: Maybe it was, but Dumbledore…

Jerry: I think you refer to Crouch in saying…

Andrew: Oh! Oh yeah, yeah. I think Laura’s right. Yeah.

Eric: Hmmm.

Andrew: But I mean, well, then it could be argued that Dumbledore still didn’t object.

Eric: And Dumbledore still didn’t put…

Andrew: Dumbledore knew he was right.

Jerry: We don’t know the level of the bond though, do we? It’s a magical contract – we’re told it’s a magical contract. We don’t know what the level of that is within…

Andrew: That’s true. It’s true.

Laura: Oh, yeah.

Eric: It’s true though. Given what we’ve seen of Dumbledore’s power, I wonder if he could not override it, but…

Andrew: Hell, Dumbledore was probably excited he got in!

Eric: Well, no, no…

Andrew: Maybe a little worried…

Eric: He was scared…

Andrew: But at the same time, he’s training him.

Eric: Andrew…

Andrew: It’s part of his training.

Eric: That’s exactly what I’m saying though. Andrew, haven’t you seen the movie? “DID YOU PUT YOUR NAME IN THE GOBLET?!” [laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, that’s a Michael Gambon touch.

Jerry: Wow!

Eric: Scared for Harry. And by the way, we’re skipping movie and Book 3 because I really had no complaints about Book 3 and Dumbledore. That was all right. He fixed everything with the time.

Andrew: Mhm.

Eric: nd Movie 3, I just wrote down the casting of Michael Gambon, but…

Andrew: See? See? Dumbledore had to step in. He had to step in.

Eric: Well, no. Book 3, I just argue it’s still one of the best books, so I don’t have a lot fo complaints about Dumbledore’s behavior. At the same time, though, Dumbledore didn’t object and Dumbledore – I mean, this is the Triwizard Tournament. You know, Dumbledore himself puts the age restriction that prevents Fred and George from putting their names in. I mean, Dumbledore himself protects this thing and then once Harry gets chosen, he lets him waltz right up. I mean, is that not – do I have no basis for any kind of evidence here? Any kind of argument?

Laura: I think Dumbledore was somewhat flabbergasted that Harry’s name came out fo the Goblet. Like, that’s – when you think about scenes that they copied almost exactly from the book onto the screen, that was one of them – where Dumbledore just sat there and stared at him.

Eric: Yeah, but it’s times like those when you have to act.

Laura: How did this happen?

Eric: It’s times like those when that’s where you have to do these things.

Laura: Yeah, but he – he’s not going to act in front of 500 students…

Eric: He did in the movie!

Laura: In the middle of the Great Hall.

Eric: He backed him up into the big trophy and started yelling at him.

Laura: No! He waited until they were somewhere private.

Jerry: Yeah.

Laura: That he didn’t have to yell at him in front of everyone.

Eric: Still, in the book he was like “Okay, Harry, please just tell me you didn’t put your name in the Goblet.” And most mysterious is the – the personage that he adopted really. But I still think, I mean – and going all year with Moody, with Barty Crouch Jr. as Professor Moody, that is actually a character flaw. I mean, that’s – that’s pretty intense, I think. No matter…

Laura: Oh, he was far too trusting.

Eric: Well…

Jerry: Hm.

Laura: But that’s what we’ve known about him all along.

Andrew: Mhm.

Eric: And that’s fair enough. So now…

Andrew: Yeah.

Harry Neglected in Book 5

Eric: Book 5. We found out at the end of the book that Dumbledore didn’t really want to be around Harry because he thought it might arise the dragon – the dragon that’s inside Harry whenever he looks, sort of, Dumbledore in the eyes because Voldemort’s looking through Harry’s eyes, or even if he’s not, the temptingness would draw Harry over the edge given the light of the new connection established between Harry and Voldemort. Now, but at the same time, you have to admit, when Book 5 opens, there does seem to be a serious amount of – well, a serious lack of news for Harry. He’s really pissed nobody’s writing to him about the slightest thing. Would it not be possible, and this is my question for Book 5, for anybody to have written in a letter and say, you know, “Harry, I suspect Voldemort can see into your mind and, therefore, it would be dangerous for me to contact you.”? A simple explanation like that…

Laura: Well…

Jerry: That would freak him the hell out though, wouldn’t it?

Eric: And again, and again, that’s about – I can see a response about letting Voldemort know how much you know, but I’m trying to see if there’s any kind of thing that could be done about Harry’s ignorance because nobody was telling him and it was really not making matters worse or better for anyone that Harry was left in the dark.

Andrew: I agree with that. Laura, were you going to bring up a point?

Laura: Well, I was going to say that if you send Harry a letter that explicitly says, “Hey, by the way, I think Voldemort can see in your mind, so I’m not going to talk to you”…

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Is that any more awkward that any of the questions he would have had to face later?

Laura: If Voldemort…

Eric: I mean…

Laura: Well, it’s not a matter – it’s not a matter of awkwardness. It’s a matter of if Voldemort could see into Harry’s mind at that point and realize what the letter said…

Eric: Yeah. He would realize the connection himself.

Laura: Then that would be – that would be a problem. And he would have realized the connection much earlier in the book.

Andrew: Mhm.

Eric: And it was just speculation, but I think Dumbledore should have included Occlumency way before the attack on Arthur Weasley. But I mean then, one would – one would argue that he wouldn’t…

Laura: Oh, yeah. Oh, definitely.

Eric: Have seen the attack on Arthur Weasley and that would be a big plot point and Weasley would have died and Tonks and Remus would be with their happy child .

Andrew: Exactly.

Jerry: There would be lots of happy rainbows and sunshine.

Eric: But, yeah…

Andrew: Well, wait, wait, wait. I mean, Jo was planning on killing Arthur anyway. So maybe he was going to give him the lessons beforehand in, like, the original – one of the original layouts for the book.

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: Well, no. I think for the plot of the book, I don’t think he was going to give him lessons. I’m saying, assuming, and this is the whole thing, I guess, accepting that the books – accepting the books as books is one thing, but if you want to take them into a world and say “Was it really moral to do this?” Of course, it’s how the book is written. Of course, these are all plot points. Of course, the books had to be written that way. They were, but was Dumbledore a moral character for that? I mean, now it’s time to, sort of, suffer, in a way, as J.K.R. has written him, was it actually a bad idea to do what Dumbledore did? You know, no one agrees – no one disagrees rather that if the books were different…

Laura: Well…

Eric: If Dumbledore was different, the books would be completely different. That’s fine, but, you know, further.

Harry: The Sacrificial Lamb

Laura: Yeah. So you’re looking at this like a real world approach, like, is it morally acceptable to raise one person as a pig for slaughter for the benefit of the overall community. That’s the question you’re asking, correct?

Eric: Yes, and, I mean, because the thing is I don’t think it’s too unrealistic to make this a real world scenario only because…

Laura: No, I understand.

Eric: …the children reading this book are going to try and take or parents are going to try and take morals. Or, you know, people always argue in essays on Harry Potter, you know, the book has so many good themes and so many good – you know? I’m just trying to pre-empt anything that people might take out of these books. And I mean, I think one of the best ways to do that is starting with Dumbledore. I mean, our hero, the wizard – the aged wizard, the genre specific old wizard, wizened old man.

Laura: Right, and I think that’s a good question to ask. But I think the difference that comes in and makes what Dumbledore is doing acceptable to a point. I’m not saying that everything he did was right, because he certainly made a lot of mistakes. But, Harry also had that moral obligation to do what he did and I think that regardless of whether or not Dumbledore chose to help him, Harry would have tried to defeat Voldemort anyway. So, it was just to Harry’s benefit that Dumbledore decided he also had an obligation to help Harry, or to train Harry to defeat Voldemort.

Eric: So, do you reckon that Dumbledore was simply, you know, kind of, making sure that Harry was in an environment where he wouldn’t get too far in danger? Do you think that Harry was, I mean, do you think that Dumbledore was – yeah.

Laura: I think Dumbledore knew Harry was going to be in extreme danger. I don’t think that he was blind to that. But I think he also wanted to foster an environment in which Harry would be able to flourish, in a way.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah.

Laura: You know, to be able to find out, to test his strengths.

What if Harry Relied Too Much on Dumbledore?

Andrew: Yeah. I mean, Eric, just imagine if Dumbledore was helping him through all this. Where would he have been when Dumbledore died? After Dumbledore died? He would have been lost, he would have been too reliant, he would have been looking for Dumbledore’s help and advice.

Jerry: That’s a fair point.

Eric: Are you actually going to make that argument?

Andrew: He would crash and burn.

Eric: Are you actually going to make that argument, Andrew?

Andrew: What? Which one? Which part?

Eric: Because Harry still relied on Dumbledore. After Dumbledore’s death…

Laura: Yeah, so imagine how bad it would have been.

Andrew: Yeah, exactly

Eric: After Dumbledore’s death – no, but you made the opposite point. You said that if he didn’t rely on him, then he would be in trouble, but he’s – you think, or you said, in your point, that Harry learning to cope on his own was essential, because, if he hadn’t learned to cope on his own…

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah, that’s what you said.

Andrew: Right.

Eric: But Dumbledore’s will and everything left all of the pieces of the clues of J.K. Rowling’s book series.

Andrew: But that’s exactly what they – but they needed those things. There was no other way they were going to get those items.

Eric: Right, but then it’s not a case of Harry learning to defend himself; it’s a case of Dumbledore fostering Harry, which is the whole point. Was it right to do that?

Andrew: That was very…

Eric: Or…

Andrew: That was a very small part of it. I mean, I’m not saying Dumbledore shouldn’t help them out a little bit. He should, especially when they absolutely need it. But when they don’t absolutely need it, which was proven through of the several books.

Eric: When was it proven that they don’t actually need it? I mean…

Andrew: Well, they went through, they successfully unlocked the Chamber of Secrets on their own.

Eric: Well…

Andrew: Dumbledore – Harry successfully fought Voldemort in Goblet of Fire.

Eric: Uh-huh.

Laura: He warded off hundreds of dementors on his own.

Eric: Well, that’s…

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Actually arguable.

Andrew: He created a Patronus…

Eric: Only because of the time loop…

Andrew: …with the help of Lupin.

Eric: It’s already happened. The whole thing is somebody would have had to originally ward off the dementors, because Harry – saying Harry saw himself in a time loop means that there would have eventually had to be a first one. That’s just a paradox. I mean, I’m willing to just agree with you guys, but at the same time, some people agree that Dumbledore would have had to sort of mess with time and be the original person Harry saw, or something. And meanwhile, if J.K. Rowling ever felt the need to explain it, she could say that Dumbledore used Polyjuice Potion to turn into Harry to make him see himself. But…

Jerry: No. That’s a very weak argument. Physics doesn’t state that there has to be a first case.

Laura: Yeah.

Jerry: It’s a recurring loop because there’s two events that go around and around and around.

Eric: Yeah.

Jerry: I mean, he’s just seeing a point in the future. He isn’t seeing a first person do it and then do it again and do it again.

Eric: Well, that’s a question fair enough. Just, the whole will and testament and everything about Beedle the Bard and just the fact that Hermione could say, “Accio Horcrux books” and have them fly right to her, it just seems so flawed in a Dumbledorian sense, and I’m…

Andrew: When did she ever do Accio Horcrux?

Eric: That’s what she said. That’s how she got every single book on how to do a Horcrux.

Andrew: Oh, she did, didn’t she?

Eric: Yeah, she did. She said, “Accio Horcrux.”

Laura: But what does that have to do with Dumbledore?

Andrew: Yeah, that doesn’t really relate to Dumbledore.

Eric: I know.

Andrew: That is one of those loopholes. I think we’ve said on the show a couple of times, why can’t you just accio everything?

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Why can’t you accio Voldemort?

Eric: People were accio-ing me when they want to talk to me in the chat. I feel like some kind of celebrity of something and don’t know why. But…

Andrew: Yeah, I get accio-ed all the time.

Eric: Yeah, you get accio-ed a lot too, Andrew. Accio Andrew. But, anyway. [laughs] But it has to do with Dumbledore, because I’m just trying to see – well, okay. If Dumbledore was going to do it he should do it right and if Dumbledore, I mean, sure, he has flaws, but is Dumbledore raising Harry for, I mean, that’s – I don’t know that I’ve presented the right scenarios to attack the problem correctly. Maybe a listener, maybe Muggl eMail can help. But, I mean…

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah.

Eric: I’m trying to just bring up this. It’s still a matter of what Dumbledore did and didn’t do.

Andrew: Well…

Eric: And, yeah.

Andrew: Let’s keep moving…

Eric: Let’s keep chugging along.

Andrew: …through the rest of the books.

Dumbledore Misleads Harry at the End of Book 5

Eric: In, we’re right here now. In, okay. At the end of Book 5, just quickly, “I’m going to tell you everything.” Now I’ve written this, I’ve written this specifically. This is the most self-conscious we’re going to get, or self-aware. Maybe that’s just the fault – It’s a book series, constantly evolving, so, maybe it’s not that much of an issue that Dumbledore said he was going to tell Harry quote quote everything, and then obviously there was more to follow that had to be spread across Books 6 and 7. So I’m saying, maybe that’s not that much of a complaint, but it’s still in my mind a complaint that…

Andrew: It is misleading.

Eric: It is misleading.

Andrew: I mean, it was misleading to us, too. Especially when Scholastic used that as a teaser for what was coming in the book.

Laura: Oh yeah, that was kind of…

Andrew: That…

Laura: Mean the way they did that.

Andrew: I don’t think I’ve ever been excited in my, been more excited in my whole life. I was like, “Everything. Everything, Dumbledore?”

Eric: Really? Huh? You know?

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. Wha? I’m saving my “Huh?” for something later.

Eric: Sorry, sorry. I didn’t want to pre-empt your “Huh?”

Andrew: It’s got to build up.

Laura: I really, whenever I saw that advertised, I didn’t think that we would learn everything just because we saw…

Eric: No, but a damn fair amount more than we did.

Laura: Well, I don’t know, I think we learned a lot.

Andrew: We did, but it wasn’t everything.

Laura: The prophecy is a lot of information.

Jerry: I think also, being very dedicated fans we got a completely different concept of what the word “everything” means, as well.

Eric: It’s true. I mean, I guess. I guess, it’s true.

Andrew: Mhm.

Laura: I think, I think…

Eric: But that’s the world J.K.R. fosters, so she should know how to deal with it and explain everything in it.

Jerry: Mhm.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: I think that by everything he meant I’m going to tell you what your destiny is, by the way.

Eric: Well…

Laura: Like, I’m going to tell you that either you have to die or Voldemort has to die.

Andrew: So, why didn’t he say that?

Laura: What?

Jerry: I’ll tell you everything about this.

Andrew: Why didn’t he say that?

Eric: Then instead of saying I’ll tell you everything – I mean, okay, he told them that a prophecy was made. He showed him the memory of the prophecy being made by Trelawney. Okay, so that shows “oooh…”

Andrew: I guess it was everything crucial at that time.

Eric: Do you think, though? I mean…

Andrew: Yeah. The prophecy stuff is what mattered…

Eric: True, I guess.

Andrew: …in Order of the Phoenix.

Eric: But he didn’t tell him it was Snape that found out. But then again, that would have just worked for Harry to hate Snape, which was not a good idea, considering Snape was a good guy.

Laura: And he also promised Snape that he wouldn’t tell.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: See? Now Eric’s learning. Eric’s learning.

Jerry: It’s definitely a case of pertinence, isn’t it? He’s only telling him what’s relevant, really. What he needs to know.

Eric: What he needs to know. Well, it was hardly everything. And maybe that’s just a fault of Dumbledore’s – character flaw.

Andrew: Well, anyway, we said we were going to keep that point short. So, let’s go to the next one.

MuggleCast 116 Transcript (continued)

The Burnt Hand in Book 6

Eric: So, in Book 6. The mystery surrounding Dumbledore’s burned hand. I wrote this down as a bull-crap moment.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: Dumbledore put it off so long, but what was the end result. Reflex issues? Beause, like, they made a point in Book 7, oh, his reflexes weren’t as fast. That’s fine, Remus Lupin, you just tell – you know, talk all night about Dumbledore’s crap reflexes. But, I’ll tell you what, if all it takes to destroy Horcruxes is some Basilisk fangs, surely Dumbledore would not have had a problem destroying the ring. Or was it the curse on the ring that was making Dumbledore’s hand burn? Because I’m not sure, because didn’t the ring also have a curse on it? The ring that was of course the heir of Slytherin’s, and also the Peverell crest, and also the Deathly Hallow.

Laura: But do you think that Dumbledore… [sighs] I don’t know.

Eric: Why was he so ambiguous about it? He wouldn’t even tell Harry about the burn. “Later, Harry!” And it seemed like this big deal and it’s just a matter of…

Andrew: No it didn’t! Only Harry made a big deal out of it.

Eric: Well, therefore, we did.

Andrew: Well, Dumbledore always brushed it off as nothing.

Jerry: Yeah.

Eric: Well, no. He said it has a very interesting answer to be dealt with later. That’s what he said.

Andrew: Did he say…

Jerry: No, he said, “the story was interesting.” He didn’t want to spoil it by revealing it too soon.”

Eric: Oh, the story was interesting.

Andrew: Yeah. I mean, of course it had a good story. I mean, if I showed up to a live podcast with a burnt hand would you expect a boring story?

Eric: No, I would expect you to…

Laura: Maybe.

Jerry: “I burned it.”

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: I’m sure half the audience would be like, “WTF?” So…

[Jerry laughs]

Eric: [laughs] That’s just…

Andrew: What’s that mean?

Did Dumbledore’s Death Leave Harry to Die?

Eric: Oh what’s that mean? Okay, Book 6 then. Okay, this is, I think, the concluding point. Dumbledore died presumably leaving Harry with everything he’d need to continue, but in an end result that would kill Harry. Now, all in all, is it moral to raise the only one to defeat the Dark Lord? To do such, knowing the pain that he went through?

Andrew: Yes.

Eric: Harry did lose Sirius in Book 5, he lost his parents to begin with, he was with the crappy Dursleys. And Dumbledore did love Harry, and it was explained, you know, and it was shown that Dumbledore did care about Harry and did love him, but it was just a point to it where we’ve seen in Book 7 Dumbledore becoming so, at times, so egotistical. And it was his own self revelation what Grindelwald was doing was wrong that made him, you know, change his mind and fight Grindelwald to begin with, and save his family, and become the moral man, and never take the position at the Ministry because he was tempted with power, and he knew that about himself. There’s good things about Dumbledore, but even though he didn’t take the position at the Ministry, was he abusing the privilege as Headmaster or, as the person who can train Harry up, to play mind games with him? Did he play mind games with Harry?

Jerry: In sense of morals, he’s having to face a moral choice that every leader, every hero in every story ever written has had to face: Not to make that choice or to sacrifice one person’s happiness for the sake of thousands of others. He’s making Harry uncomfortable, but in turn, it’s resulting in the savior of hundreds of thousands of people, so…

Eric: You’re right. I guess if you, if you ask me…

Laura: And I mean, technically, I mean, when you consider, I mean, there are lots of studies that go into this kind of thing. Like, is it okay to make one person suffer to benefit tons of other people.

Eric: The question generally…

Laura: If it creates – yeah. If the amount of happiness outweighs the amount of hurt, is it okay? And I think what makes this scenario different is that Harry knew that he was going to have to suffer anyway.

Andrew: Mhm.

Laura: So, I think again, reiterating my point, Dumbledore knew he was going to do it anyway, so why not help him? Or why not give him the necessary tools?

Eric: Did he help or did he hurt him? I mean, he caused Harry, certainly, a little bit more pain…

Laura: I think – okay.

Eric: You know?

Laura: I don’t think so. Think about how much more pain he would’ve gone through if he hadn’t had any guidance at all.

Jerry: Mhm.

Laura: Like, I mean, if he didn’t…

Eric: Well, no, no. I’m not saying about no guidance at all. I’m saying if Dumbledore would’ve guided and told him everything, at least at the age of 15 or 16, everything before he died or everything – I mean, there stands that there is something to be gained by Harry learning it all on his own, but the way Book 7 progressed, I really don’t think Harry learned much on his own. I really don’t think so. That long time in the woods didn’t really make Harry learn anything. There was some weird thing about a snake inside a lady, but that was about it.

Laura: And about those little things called Deathly Hallows, too.

Jerry: It’s just a small point.

Andrew: Oooo…

Eric: Which happened to be what? The opposite of a human being? Thank, Hermione Granger, who happened to Accio a book out of Dumbledore’s office. You know? I mean, I’m sorry.

Final Thoughts

Andrew: I guess we should go around the table now and just final thoughts on…

Eric: Do you think it’s right?

Andrew: Do you think it’s right? Yeah.

Eric: Okay. Well, two questions. Do you think it’s right to sacrifice one person’s happiness or one person’s life for the lives of many, first of all, and then do you agree or do you think there’s something to this argument about Dumbledore being more than a flawed character and actually committing some serious crimes on Harry?

Andrew: Okay, I’ll start. First point. Should – was it wrong for Dumbledore to…

Eric: All right, well, first of all, is it okay to sacrifice one person’s life…

Andrew: Oh, right.

Eric: …or happiness for the life of others.

Andrew: No, it’s not. But I think Dumbledore…

Eric: Really?

Andrew: Yeah, it’s not. But I think Dumbledore was – well, first of all, it depends on the person. I mean, I don’t want to make, like, a Hitler reference, but if you’re going to kill off Hitler, you know.

Jerry: Mhm.

Andrew: You’ll kind of save some other people, you know? That would be good.

Eric: [laughs] Well, okay, let’s rephrase. A good person. A good person then, an innocent person, in fact. Is it right to corrupt the innocence of youth to sort of bring into reality…

Andrew: Okay. No.

Eric: …the burdens of the world?

Andrew: It’s not all right, but I think Dumbledore was confident enough that Harry would not be sacrificed and Harry would make it through. Maybe Dumbledore had some inkling – had some shred of evidence that would prove that Harry would definitely make it through. And so, no, I don’t think that you should sacrifice a good person in order to benefit a larger group of people, and I don’t think it relates to this discussion because I think Dumbledore was sure Harry would make it.

Jerry: Mhm.

Andrew: Would be successful in his battle.

Eric: So the odds were in Harry’s favor? Could that be successfully argued?

Andrew: Yeah, of course. Well, yeah. I don’t even want to call them odds. I would think that Dumbledore saw more than just odds.

Eric: Well, a lot of it came down to chance, didn’t it?

Andrew: Yeah. Yes, but…

Eric: I mean, about Peter Pettigrew redeeming himself or not and…

Andrew: Yes, but I’m hoping… Yeah, I know, but I’m hoping that Harry or that Dumbledore – something just made him confident in believing that Harry
would make it through. I cannot see Harry – I cannot see Dumbledore being okay with losing Harry and Harry being sacrificed in order for a larger group of people to be happy and survive and get past Voldemort and move on, you know?

Eric: Okay, Jerry, what do you think?

Jerry: Well, I’m of the opinion provided that if it’s a single person’s life and also that through Dumbledore’s actions, Harry was conditioned to, when it came to it, be ready to die. I mean at the end he wasn’t suffering.

Andrew: Mhm.

Jerry: He had an amazing sense of calm that he knew this was going to happen and he was okay with that. I mean, in the end, is he suffering? Is his death something that’s causing him anguish? No, he was ready for it and he took the responsibility. He knew his actions were going to benefit these people and he was happy with that, and I think that’s what it comes down to, really. I mean, the fact that he didn’t die is of course a good thing, and perhaps Dumbledore did have the foresight to see that killing a single piece of soul would release Harry.

Andrew: Yeah. Laura?

Laura: No, it is not morally permissible to sacrifice one person’s happiness for the happiness of other people, but that question implies that you are taking that from them without giving them a choice, and Harry was given a choice up until the absolute last minute. Like, he was in a limbo between the world of the living and the dead, and Dumbledore said, “You can die if you want to. You can end this right now. You don’t have to go back and fight him. You can just end it and you can be done.” And…

Eric: No, was that a choice? Because Voldemort would’ve still been alive and then all the people Harry feels responsible to would’ve been let down by Harry.

Laura: Well, it doesn’t matter.

Eric: Is that a real choice?

Laura: Sure, it’s a choice. Harry could’ve decided that, “Hey…”

Eric: “Screw ’em all”? [laughs]

Laura: “…you know, I’ve had enough of this.”

Eric: “Screw ’em all, the afterlife is the place to be.”

Laura: Yeah, he could’ve said it, but he didn’t, and I think that’s the point. Dumbledore always knew that Harry was a good person and he would make the right choice, so I don’t think that Dumbledore forced him into anything.

Eric: It’s so interesting. The question, you know, “is it right to sacrifice the life of one to save many?” is, I think, in my mind, followed by the question “can you guarantee that this person’s life or death will affect those people in that said positive way?” You know, what power do you have to actually guarantee that that sort of thing will happen? I mean, obviously if it’s Hitler, that’ll happen, but I think, in the end, I’m kind of borderline on “yes, it is,” but at the same time, I don’t think
that kind of thing can be known, so it’s not morally permissible. I think there should be ways around it. But, again, because this is a book series, too, I’m trying to, you know, pull myself from the reality and say, “Okay, so it’s not really permissible.” It’s a novel idea, a novel concept, that if you could control every situation, one, you know, could die to save others, and that’s the whole point of martyrs, et cetera, and that’s all good and fine. Now, I do think that Dumbledore was, in a way, leading Harry. I do think there could’ve been a sort of better, or different, character in Dumbledore, but then, perhaps, it wouldn’t be Dumbledore and
we wouldn’t be talking about it with such uniqueness. We’d be making references to other books. Well, maybe we haven’t read any other book series, but I just think it is Dumbledore, and maybe that’s – that’s the whole thing about Harry Potter; it exists as something that we can discuss literally for – how many episodes now? 116? I mean, we’ve been doing this, and shows like this, where we can pick a point, this thing, and talk about it. And maybe it’s just me begging the question, maybe I’m annoying everybody, maybe…

[Jerry laughs]

Eric: …everybody turned off the show thirty minutes ago, but…

Andrew: Everyone’s nodding their heads. Yeah.

Eric: Everyone’s nodding their heads.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Just kidding.

Eric: But… [laughs]. But this, just the fact that this can be discussed is actually, I think, something in itself, and I think…

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: …your guys’ conclusions was really good.

Andrew: Mhm.

Eric: I think I liked your guys’ conclusions very much so, and I’m personally a little happy, so – yeah.

Andrew: Well, I think the discussion went well.

Laura: Yeah, very nice.

Andrew: And I’m sure there’s going to be plenty of feedback about this next
week, and so, we didn’t really talk about the second point that you wanted to address, but, I mean, we could save it for next week because this is quite a long show now. Okay, so next week, Eric, you want to talk more about Dumbledore’s family and we’ll also extend on our discussion this week with rebuttals…

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: …and…

Eric: And we’ll have extra people working on the main discussion, so it won’t be kind of circular and trying to ask a big question about literary discussion.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: I mean…

Andrew: Well, I think it was still good.

Eric: …we will be talking about Dumbledore.

Andrew: It was interesting.

Eric: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was good.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: So, I mean, next week will just be about the family and the cool parts about what we learned.

Andrew: Okay.

Andrew’s “HUH?!” E-mail of the Week

Andrew: Yeah. It’s time for my, “Huh?!” E-mail of the Week. It
comes from Nicki, 13, of Rochester, New York. Subject: Andrew Andrew Andrew! How they heard of us: MuggleNet main page. IP address:

[Jerry, Laura, and Eric laugh]

Andrew: .Her message:

“So I hear you’re on the market now. I, too, am single at the moment. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge. So, want to get together? Anyways, keep up the good work on the show!”

[Jerry laughs]

Andrew: “Love it. Best wishes, Nicki J.”

May I read again, her age is 13.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: And she’s from Rochester, New York. Well, age is no definition of maturity, Andrew. You should know that. You were young when you started this show…

Andrew: Not when I was…

Eric: …and look at where it’s come.

Andrew: Well, fair point, but…

Laura: Okay…

Andrew: I’m 18 now. I want more out of a relationship.

Jerry: His age is a legal age.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: I don’t think I’m going to be with a little 13-year old. Yeah.

Eric: Oh, right, you have to be legal.

Laura: Not to mention that – yeah…

Andrew: I mean, that’s not – well, I mean, no. That’s not what I was implying.

Eric: Well, begs the question, Andrew. Are you on the market?

Andrew: It’s time for a Chicken Soup For The MuggleCast Soul.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: This comes from Sidney…

Eric: But you can’t do a Huh?! moment!

Andrew: …11, of Burke, Virginia.

Eric: No, that was not a Huh?! segment!

Andrew: Yes, it was!

Eric: I’m rejecting that.

Andrew: It was just a weird e-mail.

Eric: No.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Oh, fine.

Andrew: I have one about a hermit crab, too. You want that one?

Jerry: Yeah, sounds good.

Andrew: “Dear Andrew, I got a hermit crab last night and I almost named it Andrew…”

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: “…but then I realized hermit Crabbe, C-R-A-B-B-E, so I named him Vincent. Love, Shannon, 14, of New Jersey.”

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Laura: Nice. [laughs]

Andrew: “In case it entered your mind…

Eric: [laughs] Vincent.

Andrew: …yes, I am the same Shannon from New Jersey who said your voice is sooo dreamy during the live event.”

Okay, so, that’s that.

[Eric laughs]

Chicken Soup For The MuggleCast Soul

Andrew: Chicken Soup. Sidney L., from Burbank, Virginia, 11-years old.

Eric: Burke. Burke, Virginia.

Andrew: Burke. What’d I say?

Laura; Burbank. [laughs]

Andrew: Burbank. Burbank, California! Burke.

Laura: “About two years ago, my sister, Rachel, was diagnosed with acute lymphoblastic leukemia. She had to have much treatment, even a bone
marrow transplant about five hours away. We had to visit her every weekend, so if you add that up, that’s ten hours of boredom per week. Then my dad got me a video iPod. When I got my iTunes account, my dad first searched for
Harry Potter and subscribed for the first free thing there.”

[Eric and Laura laugh]

“I’ve been an avid listener ever since. The first episode I ever listened to was Episode 50. Yes, I have 67 MuggleCast episodes on my iPod. Also, this summer, I was stuck in either Durham, North Carolina, or summer sleep-away camp, where I couldn’t bring my iPod. You were the only thing that saved me from my boredom. I even made a poem for you. I got an A plus.”

Andrew: Oooh.

Laura: And here’s her poem:

“At the end of the week
When I’m feeling meek
And I go
on MuggleNet
And start to fret
And then go on iTunes
It’s no time for balloons

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

I double-click on MuggleCast
I really want it to last

Jerry: Awww.


And then my
frown turns upside-down.

Pickley love, from Sidney.

Andrew: Oh, I – first of all, I like the sign off.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: Pickley love.

Laura: Yeah. [laughs] That’s really cool.

Eric: Oh, and there’s a postscript, there’s a postscript.


Laura: What’d she say? Oh, oh.

My dog can…”


“…probably eat more pickles than all of you.”

Andrew: Weird. I wonder what the grade was based on. Like, was it rhyming, like rhyming schemes, or – because…

Eric: I think it’s about overall content. It’s the whole thing.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: Or was it a – what are those poems called? It’s like, 4-6-4. Or like…

Eric: Haiku?

Andrew: Haiku.

Eric: 3-5-6.

Andrew: Obviously not a haiku, but…

Laura: This isn’t a haiku.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Well, that would be weird, though. MuggleCast haikus, you can do a listener challenge.

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Show Close

Andrew: Well, I think that does do it for this episode of MuggleCast. We do thank everyone for listening. If you have any parcel mail you would like to send – Eric, you’re sighing, what’s going on?

Eric: Oh, no, I was trying to come up with a haiku.

Andrew: Oh, okay.

Eric: Because I Googled haiku and it’s 5-7-5 syllables.

Andrew: Oh, right.

Eric: And I’m trying to think of a MuggleCast haiku…

Andrew: Okay, well…

Eric: …based on that lovely poem.

Andrew: …while you think of that, we’ll go through the contact information. Laura, if someone has parcel mail, how could they get it to us?

Laura: You can send that to:

P.O. Box 3151
Cumming, Georgia

Andrew: You can also call in a voice mail question or comment, a listener rebuttal, Muggle Mail, whatever you want to call it. Just keep your message under sixty seconds and eliminate as much background noise as possible. To dial, if you’re in the United States, you dial 1-218-20-MAGIC. That’s 1-218-206-2442. If you’re in the United Kingdom, you can dial 020-8144-0677. And if you’re in Australia, Down Under, you can dial 02-8003-5668. We just renewed that number. It cost us $60 for a year, so if you’re wondering where…

Laura: So use it.

Andrew: Huh?

Laura: So use it, please

Andrew: Yes, so use it. Yeah.

[Andrew, Eric, and Laura laugh]

Andrew: I guess their prices went up. I don’t remember paying that much last time, but – so if anyone’s wondering, “Well, where does this money go? Like, your ring tones and stuff.” That’s where it goes to. Phones numbers, hosting costs, our food, stuff like that.

Laura: Yep.

Andrew: And you can also Skype the username MuggleCast. Just visit Skype.com to download the free software, then you can add MuggleCast as a username. Then you can make a free call to us. Skype is completely free as long as you’re calling another Skype name, such as MuggleCast.

You can also e-mail us using the handy feedback form on MuggleCast.com or use any one of our first names at staff dot mugglenet dot com.

There are also many community outlets to reach us. We have the MySpace, Facebook, YouTube, Frappr, Last.FM, there is the Fanlisting, and I do want to point out that the forums, unfortunately, no longer exist.

Eric: Well, they will be back.

Andrew: Will they?

Eric: They will be back. Yes, apparently there’s something on the site right now that says the official MuggleCasting forums will be coming back up and revamped and I don’t know much about it.

Andrew: Let me read this. Oh yeah, what do you know? What do you know? “An all new, completely revamped site is coming soon. If you are interested in being involved with the new site as a moderator, please send Alice an e-mail with your name, age, forum experience, ideas you have for the site (which could make it better and more active) and, in 25 words or less, why you want to help out.”

[Laura laughs]

Eric: So, anybody interested in working on the new MuggleCast forums…

Andrew: Well, that’s why I’m reading it, so…

Laura: Oh, okay. I thought you were actually – I thought you were… Yeah, nevermind.

Andrew: No, no, no, if anyone’s interested, because we always get e-mails saying, “How can I help the show?” On the forums, the fan forums are a great way. And maybe we’ll start promoting that more to get more people involved on it and discussing the show, and also Harry Potter.

Eric: Yeah, because there’s not much of a venue sort of thing for all the new fans, even, to discuss.

Andrew: Exactly, yeah.

Eric: I mean, the forums where what they had and then they got taken down and now they’re coming back up so we should do that.

Andrew: Yeah. MuggleCastFan.net/Forums, and then Alice had her e-mail address there where you can contact her to apply for a position. I’m sure they’re going to do a great job no matter what they do.

Eric: Guys, I have my Haiku ready.

Andrew: Okay, hold on, just continuing with the community outlets, you can also visit Digg.com and digg the show for us. That’s like a vote. And you can also vote for us once a month at Podcast Alley and rate and review us on Yahoo! Podcasts. So visit MuggleCast.com for all that and much, much, much, much more. Eric, please. Shower us with your Haiku.

Eric: Okay, 5-7-5, guys.

Each week, I always listen
Those kids know what they’re talking about
MuggleCast is lots of fun.

Andrew: What was the first line? “Each week I always?”

Eric: “Each week I always listen.”

Andrew: No, that’s more than five.

Eric: Five words. Oh, crap that’s right. No, I did it in words. I did five words, seven words…

[Everyone laughs]

Jerry: You did words, not syllables.

Andrew: Oh, no it’s syllables. It’s syllables.

Eric: Oh, crap. I’m going to re-write this real quick. Do the show – do the closing again.

[Show Music begins]

Andrew: That’s embarrassing. I can’t believe you thought it was words.

Eric: Okay, no. “Each week I listen. Those kids know what they’re…” One, two, three, four, five, six…

Andrew: Doing.

Eric: “…saying.” Saying.

Andrew: Saying.

Eric: “Those kids know what they’re saying. MuggleCast is fun.” There we go! Okay, so. Revamped.

Each week I listen
Those kids know what they’re saying
MuggleCast is fun.

Andrew: Excellent.

Laura: Yay.

Eric: Yes! That’s awesome.

Transcribers to be Hired

Andrew: All right, thank you, everyone, for listening. Another quick shout out – we do this every once in a while – I just want to say thanks again to all the transcribers and everyone working on the show. Because it really is a big team behind this whole podcast, especially the transcript area. Micah’s working on hiring some new staff there, so if anyone is interested in becoming a transcriber, e-mail micah at staff dot mugglenet dot com. I know he wanted me to announce that this week: micah at staff dot mugglenet dot com saying you want to help out. He’s looking for dedicated people. All you have to do is transcribe a few minutes of the show every week. That’s it.

Eric: Accurately.

Andrew: Accurately, that’s important too.

Eric: And if it’s not accurate, then we’ll drag your name through the mud.

Laura: Yes, and if you e-mail him and say, “I can tell the difference between Laura and Jamie’s voices, especially,” he will not hire you.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, you should know the difference between everyone’s voice and be good at spelling and all that. So, thank you, everyone for listening. I’m Andrew Sims.

Eric: I am Eric Scull.

Laura: I’m Laura Thompson.

Jerry: And I’m Jerry Cooke.

Andrew: Jerry, thanks for joining us, by the way. Over at FandomForecast.com, right?

Jerry: Yup.

Andrew: This is the most unorganized out-tro I’ve ever done.

Eric: Now, you guys had the Black Sisters on this week, haven’t you? From YouTube?

Jerry: Yeah, we have. We meant to have you on as well but…timezones…Internet.

Eric: Yeah. Hey, next time. Next time.

Jerry: Yeah.

Andrew: All right, everyone, thank you for joining us this week.

Eric: Woot!

Andrew: We will see you next week for Episode 1-1-7. Bye.

Laura: Bye!

Jerry: Bye!

Andrew: Bye!


Eric: Well, wouldn’t that defeat the purpose of getting a mixer? If you can’t mix our individual audio tracks?

Andrew: I don’t – what are you saying?

Eric: Well, I’m saying if we are all in the same room or any proximity in which we could hug or dance or something, wouldn’t our audio streams kind of cross over and make us quite difficult to edit?

Andrew: Well, we would be…

Eric: Oh, that quality would be so good that it would far surpass…

Andrew: Well, yeah, and we won’t be talking over each other once we’re actually here.

Eric: [laughs] And if we would, we’d be…

Andrew: You’d just be stupid.

Eric: Yeah.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Absolutely, yeah, that was what I was… [imitating an echo] “Yeah, um, we just need to – we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, need, need, need, to, to, to, to work out the kinks, kinks, kinks, kinks, kinks, kinks, kinks, in the audio, audio, audio, audio, problem, problem, problem.”

Laura: What are you doing, Eric?

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Well, you wouldn’t hear feedback! You wouldn’t hear echoing here. It would be very easy to set up. There would not be any problems if everyone was just here.

Eric: No, no, it sounds good. Let me just get back to you when I get home to the states in December. So…

Andrew: Yeah. Well, I know you’re crazy to drive out here at least once a month.

Eric: No, it’s true, it’s true.

Andrew: You’ll do it, right?

Eric: Yeah, I will.

Andrew: And Laura would come, and maybe Micah, and we’ll go out to eat afterwards, and watch movies, and cuddle and stuff.

Laura: Aww, that’d be so fun.

Eric: We’ll go to Chick-fil-A.

Andrew: Oh god, Chick-fil-A. Oh, so good.

Eric: I love that stuff.

Laura: I just had that yesterday.

Andrew: Ohhh.

Andrew: I have a good lesson for all the kids out there who are in middle school, high school, even. I had to do a poetry project in eighth grade for my English class. So, I did this whole… We had to write up all these different poems and stuff, and then I lucked out because two years later, we had to do another poetry packet which included basically the same types of poems. So, what did I do? I just used my one from eighth grade.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Okay, that’s not much of a lesson.

Eric: I did that once too.

Andrew: Yeah, I mean, what I’m trying to say is that it’s okay to reuse some of your old schoolwork.

Eric: It actually is. Sometimes. I mean, you’re plagiarizing yourself.

Andrew: Yeah!

Eric: But, but…

Andrew: And is it plagiarism if you’re plagiarizing yourself?

Eric: And the whole thing is, I mean, when you’re older…

Andrew: Right.

Eric: ….you’re expected to have a better writing style so you should probably just improve on what you said, but that’s fine.

Andrew: Yeah, that’s what I did basically.

Eric: It’s like saying you could never write about a movie you’ve written about before.

Laura: I did that all through high school. I recycled essays and all sorts of stuff.

Eric: That’s how you got through. By eighth grade, you were set. You had written everything you ever needed to.

Micah: Because pigs are sometimes made for slaughter, this is MuggleCast, Episode 117 for October 16th – I don’t even know what the [word bleeped out] is going on. What episode are we on?


Episode 116: Pig For Slaughter

  • Jerry Cooke from Fandom Forecast joins us this week!
  • Where is Jo going with Wizard of the Month?
  • Titan Tiffin as young Tom Riddle?
  • Eric gives a reminder about MuggleCast Down Under.
  • The news that launched a thousand shrieks: Jamie will not be on for a while.
  • Was Pettigrew braver at age eleven?
  • We discuss the morality of Dumbledore.
  • Was he raising Harry as a pig for slaughter?
  • Did he help Harry by distancing him?
  • Was what Dumbledore did morally permissible?
  • Would Harry have chosen his path if not for Dumbledore?
  • HUH?!
  • Chicken Soup for the MuggleCast Soul.
  • Bloopers.

Download Now

Running time: 1:43:49, 47.6 MB

Transcript 115

MuggleCast 115 Transcript

Show Intro

Mason: Hey Lauren! Do you want to know about a good deal?

Lauren: Why, yes, Mason. I would love to!

Mason: Good because I have a deal with your name on it.

Lauren: Tell me more!

Mason: Well, in that case… GoDaddy.com is offering the best deals of a life time. For only $3.59 a month for 1 year, you can get GoDaddy.com’s economy package.

Lauren: Amazing! What do I get with the economy package?

Mason: You can get 250 gigs of bandwith, five gigs of storage and up to 500 e-mail accounts, you can get your website up and running.

Lauren: I can?

Mason: Yeah. When you check out, enter code Muggle – that’s M-U-G-G-L-E- and save 10 percent on any order.

Lauren: Can you spell that again?

Mason: Yeah, I can. That’s M-U-G-G-L-E.

Lauren: Wow! Do any restrictions apply?

Mason: Some restrictions apply, see site for details. Get your piece of the internet at GoDaddy…

Lauren: Dot com.

Andrew: Today’s MuggleNet podcast is brought to you by Borders. In May, thousands of Harry Potter fans descended upon New Orleans for the Phoenix Rising Conference. Borders was there to take in the sites and share a lively discussion of the series that has bewitched the world with some of Harry’s most dedicated fans. Listen in and watch the action yourself. Check our The Phoenix Rising, Borders Book Club
discussion at BordersMedia.com/HarryPotter, or click on the Borders banner at the top of the MuggleNet page.

[Different intro music starts]

Micah: Because Laura has a million questions that only Jo can answer, this is MuggleCast Episode 115 for October 1st, 2007.

[Intro music starts]

Laura: So, Micah.

Micah: So, Laura.

Laura: After Jamie and I, we railed on you a little bit last week for not seeing Order of the Phoenix.

Micah: Yeah, you did.

Laura: Yeah, we gave you a pretty hard time, but I have to say that after last weeks show, you did the responsible thing that any MuggleCaster would do and you went and saw the movie. So, just in a nutshell, what did you think of it?

Micah: Overall, I thought that it was done pretty well. I didn’t really like the pace of it too much. I thought it went a little too quickly, and not that these movies don’t have to go quickly because obviously they have to cover a lot, but I thought that it lacked a lot of explanation. There was a lack of dialogue between the scenes and it really didn’t help you explain what was going one scene to the next.

Laura: Okay. I’m just curious, how’d you manage to find it?

Micah: Find what?

Laura: The movie.

Micah: It’s still playing, actually, here in a place about 45 minutes from my house.

Laura: Oh really?

Micah: Yeah, so movie theaters do that, sometimes.

Laura: Awesome!

Micah: They hang on to movies for awhile.

Kevin: You drove 45 minutes to see it.

Micah: I did, yeah. Come on!

Eric: That’s how dedicated he was. Man, Micah’s just…

Micah: Well, I knew what the reaction was going to be if the following week I came back…

Eric: Yeah, of course…

[Laura laughs]

Micah: …and I hadn’t seen it.

Laura: Yeah, I had an intro all prepared just to be like, “So, Micah. How do you feel still not being the only one MuggleCaster who hasn’t seen ‘Order of the Phoenix’?”

[Kevin and Eric laugh]

Micah: Yeah, and probably the only MuggleCast listener who hasn’t seen Order of the Phoenix, either.

Laura: Probably the only Harry Potter fan in the world…

[Micah laughs]

Laura: Micah.

Micah: Yeah.

[Intro music plays louder]


Laura: So, why don’t you give us the scoop in the past week’s top Harry Potter news stories.

Micah: All right, thanks Laura. Two new audio interviews with Harry Potter movie producer David Heyman and set designer Stuart Craig have emerged online. In the first interview, with Heyman, the producer discusses, among many things, why David Yates was given the director’s helm for Movies 5 and 6. He says that Alfonso Cuaron was given the option to do Movie 4, after Prisoner of Azkaban, but was too tired and
Mike Newell the option for Movie 5, after directing Goblet of Fire, but he was exhausted as well. David Yates when approached for Half-Blood Prince, after directing Order of the Phoenix was not.

The second interview, with Craig, he discusses the challenges he encountered while working on Order of the Phoenix and briefly mentions the sixth film.

A trailer for the upcoming release of the Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix DVD has appeared online. You can watch it over at MuggleNet.com The DVD will be released on December 11th in the US and November 12th in the UK.

And the fifth Harry Potter film dominated the National Movie Awards, winning three of the six prizes. Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix won the award for best family movie. Emma Watson picked up best female performance for her role as “Hermione,” while Daniel Radcliffe who plays the lead won for best male performance, beating Daniel Craig from the Bond movie, Johnny Depp, and co-star Rupert Grint. Rupert has this to say about losing to Dan: “Obviously I didn’t expect to win,
because I think Dan deserves it more than me.” The winners were picked solely on public votes.

Finally, we previously told you that JK Rowling had agreed donate and auction a signed set of her beloved series for Books Abroad, a charity that seeks to “help to educate children worldwide by sending free school books that are carefully chosen to match the need of each school.” Earlier today at midnight the auction on eBay had closed with the winning bid at 18,200, or $37,100 with the starting offer at 100. To prevent the books from being stolen, they were locked in a jail prior to the auction. Books Abroad said they currently “don’t have any specific use (for the money) in mind.”

That’s all the news for this October 1st, 2007 edition of MuggleCast. Back to the show.

Welcome Back

Laura: Okay, thanks Micah. Now, before we dive into some news discussion I’d like to welcome back Kevin. You were gone for a long time, weren’t you?

Kevin: Yes, I was. Quite a long time…

Laura: You were on two shows all summer. [laughs]

Kevin: Yeah, well…

Laura: And where were you? Just curious.

Kevin: I was actually in France.

Laura: Oh, but you’re not there anymore, right?

Kevin: Not anymore. Oh, no.

Eric: Geez, are you sure? Because I swear – When did you come back? There was no – that’s just because I haven’t heard from you, man.

Kevin: I came back two weeks before the start of the semester.

Eric: Wow!

Kevin: So…

Laura: Just a little bit of background information here. Before we started recording the show, Eric was talking to Kevin as though Kevin was still in France. And it just kind of went on for a few minutes and nobody said anything.

[Kevin and Eric laugh]

Laura: And then finally…

Kevin: I actually let it go on for a few minutes.

Laura: [laughs] And I was like, “Eric, do you think he’s still in France?”

Eric: And then I was like – because we were talking about riding boats with his G-Force 8, right? Don’t they do that, Kevin? Can we talk about this?

[Laura laughs]

Kevin: Oh, sure.

Eric: Yeah. The powering boats, sort of like they did in Stuart Little

Kevin: Although, was that with the fan on the video card? That example work?

Eric: Yeah.

Laura: Yeah. So, you were gone for awhile. Eric, you haven’t been on in a few episodes.

Eric: No, same here. I mean…

Laura: It’s been awhile, yeah.

Eric: Couple shows, maybe. Three or four since Book 7? So…

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah, it’s good to be back, good to be on.

Laura: That time difference is ridiculous. It’s like 16 hours, isn’t it?

Micah: Yeah, so people can…

Eric: It’s 17 hours.

Micah: Understand a little bit why it was so hard to record in the summer. With people in…

Laura: Yeah.

Micah: …various countries and all different time zones around the world.

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Kevin: Just a bit.

Eric: Yeah.

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: No, it is quite shocking. But New Zealand is funny too, because even if we did I couldn’t even get used to the time change. Because what happened was they just changed over today, which was Sunday. They changed over and I didn’t know about it. It’s obviously, you know it’s a few weeks ahead of changing over – I guess you guys will change over in about three weeks time? The end of October? Something like that.

Interviews with Dan and David Yates.

Laura: All right, so welcome back you guys. Really glad to have you back on the show. As we all know, recently the filming for Half-Blood Prince commenced. And it seems that both Dan and David Yates have talked about the film, did you guys see any of that?

Kevin: Yeah, the interview with David Yates was good. Because he was talking about the romantic aspect and how he intends to make it a very large part of the movie.

Laura: Oh, fabulous.

Eric: Yeah, he was talking about the movie in general, I think and I expected it to be – you know, so-so. I mean it’s six minutes long, just audio. I mean, there’s a sort of collage picture that you can watch while you’re listening, but it’s not bery exciting, doesn’t really move. But it’s a six minute audio interview that – Let’s see, it’s a six minute audio interview that the guy does with David Yates and, yeah, I recommend checking that out, believe it or not. Because it is exciting and it’s a piece of news and any news is good news in the Harry Potter world today. And yeah, it’s really comprehensive. It’s really good. Like, David Yates seems really into making the sixth film and he answers a lot of good questions.

Laura: Yeah, I’m pretty excited to see him direct the sixth film because I actually really liked Order of the Phoenix. And one of the things I’m excited about was Dan talked about how he’s going to have, like, four days of filming for the cave scene with Michael Gambon. And I’m so excited to…

Micah: Yeah, it takes Gambon a little bit of time to get things right. So you know, that’s probably why they’re doing it for four days.

Laura: Whatever, Micah.

Eric: Yeah. No, it’s true. It’s true.

Laura: I don’t care what you have to say.

[Micah laughs]

Laura: Actually, I do.

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: I’m just kidding. Just kidding. Anyway. But it’s pretty exciting, I think. Because if you look at the way that the Department of Mysteries and the Ministry was set up in the fifth film, I’m pretty excited to see how they set up the cave.

Kevin: With the same set. It’s going to have, like, pillars on this time.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Like they did – well, I mean, I guess they did that on purpose.

Kevin: They did that for Chamber of Secrets and they reused the set for Order of the Phoenix.

Eric: Oh, did they?

Laura: Did they really?

Kevin: Yeah.

Laura: Which one?

Eric: Oh, you’re right. Son of a gun.

Kevin: That was the set. You didn’t recognize…

Laura: Really?

Eric: The Ministry.

Kevin: Yes they did.

Laura: Oh, wow.

Kevin: They revamped it. But if you noticed, the atrium is exactly like the hallway in the – or the actual Chamber of Secrets, I should say.

Laura: Interesting.

Eric: They must have just kept that set sitting there in Leavesden studios. I do not know why they didn’t do a studio tour then of the Chamber of Secrets. Because that would have been cool to have for the past three years until they used it.

Kevin: Probably because they were remodeling [laughs] for the…

Eric: Yeah, for three years.

Kevin: Three years.

Eric: They really work hard. You never know, though.

Laura: Cool, well, Warner Brothers recycles.

Eric: Yeah, but there was – yeah, the interviews were really good. There was a point where David was talking about Harry’s unrequited feelings for Bonnie, even though he means Ginny. And he corrects himself immediately afterwards.

Kevin: Yeah. That was pretty ironic.

Eric: I thought that was funny because – well, not ignorant, I thought it was funny just because I have unrequited feelings for Bonnie, as well. And I don’t know – I probably speak for a lot of other people.

Laura: I’m sure you do.

Kevin: Now that we’ve got a restraining order against Eric.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Oh wait, that’s right. Yeah, sorry.

Laura: All right, is there anything else anyone wanted to bring up before we move on?

Eric: Yeah. Sorry again. Just one final point. He does – David talks about, it’s just one quote here, he talks about balancing the intimate with the epic. Like, I thought that was very well worded, balancing the intimate with the…

Laura: Interesting.

Eric: What? Yeah. He says – you know, along the lines of you need to sort of, if as long as the characters can be related to by the audience, that’s what essential. He says you know, you can show them all sorts of spectacle. What really matters is if the characters – he says that in movie 5, the first screening, when they, you know showed it to the audience, he was just surprised how much the characters meant to the audience. And sort of how much – You know, how much dependency it sort of had on the enjoyment of the film and the meaning of the film and that sort of thing. So, he was really…

Kevin: He also mentioned that this film is largely character-driven.

Eric: Yes.

Kevin: So, he’s trying to build the characters as much as possible because, you know, people have grown up with them. So…

Half-Blood Prince Will Be Character-Driven

Eric: Which is interesting. Do you there’ll be – I mean, because in Movie 5, obviously, I mean it might be in this too, now that you’ve seen it. But in Movie 5 there’s sort of the fun scenes with Dumbledore’s Army where it’s – would you call those scenes character-driven? Because they’re obviously the characters we love and know sort of escaping the tyranny of the character of Umbridge. But, I’m just trying to distinguish whether or not the scenes will be sort of cheesy or if they’ll be, like really good character scenes or what sort of – I mean it’d be impossible to tell, but what do you think he means by character-driven that’s going to be so different from Movie 5?

Micah: I think it’s got to be Snape. I mean, there’s no other character that needs to be more developed, I think, in this movie than Snape. It goes back to, even Order of the Phoenix. I mean, he was in the Occlumency scene and really that was about it. And even that scene, I felt was rushed. I mean, obviously they didn’t do it the way that it happens in the book. You know, it’s Harry going up to Dumbledore’s office right after the attack. And then two seconds later Snape is there and Snape takes Harry down to his office to do the whole scene. But, I just feel like Snape has been underdeveloped as a character throughout the entire first five films. And I think he really needs to be developed in Half-Blood Prince because, you know, Deathly Hallows, obviously he’s going to be playing another major role.

Kevin: Yeah, he’s going to playing a key role, so if they don’t get it right it’s going to hinder the ability of the director to direct the last one.

Laura: Oh yeah, it’s definitely really interesting, now that we’ve read the seventh book, seeing all the things that they’ve left out of the movies, and we can just sort of sit back and go, “Hmmm, I’m wondering how you’re going to fit all of this into one film so that it makes sense in the last one?”

Eric: See, I don’t even know if they’ll have that problem as much. I mean, what else have they got to do besides here’s an – I mean, Jo essentially just kept introducing stuff, including the Elder wand.

Laura: Well, what about Lily, though?

Eric: What about Lily?

Laura: She wasn’t in the Snape’s Worst Memory scene at all. If in the seventh film, all of a sudden we see that Snape and Lily were friends, that comes out of nowhere.

Kevin: It does, yeah.

Eric: Okay, well, flash back to the scene in Movie 3, then, when Lupin’s on the surprise secret bridge and talks to Harry about Lily seeing the good in people, that they never did before.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Because JKR was really pleased with Cuaron for that, for doing that scene about Lily that was – now we see it was actually, as Jo put it, preemptive for the seventh book. Lupin talks to Harry about her.

Laura: Actually, it was.

Eric: So they can just flash…

Laura: Do you remember when everybody thought that was kind of Lupin’s way of saying that he loved Lily, or something like that.

Eric: Yeah.

Laura: I remember everybody thought that.

Eric: It was quite questionable, actually.

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: But I don’t know. Lupin and Tonks and stuff – it’s just good, I think. One of the things I liked about Movie 5, and maybe you guys agree, was just the amount of actors they had in it, just the amount of quality actors.

Laura: Oh, yeah, definitely.

Eric: No matter how many scenes, obviously. I mean, Lupin didn’t even have much screen time at all. I mean, he’s there to kind of hold Harry back at the end, but beyond that, I think he has one line, and if I remember correctly, you don’t even see him speaking it when he says it, he’s at the table or something in the headquarters. It’s very low, minimal screen time. Same thing with Snape.

Micah’s Favorite Line

Micah: Speaking of lines, there’s one line, and it’s really my favorite line in the entire series.

Laura: Oh, boy.

Micah: And I…no, no. Wait.

Eric: Oh, boo hoo, and you didn’t see it in the movie, and it wasn’t in the movie, and boo hoo hoo.

Laura: Oh, okay, I thought you were about to rail on Michael Gambon again.

Micah: No, no, no. It’s in Order of the Phoenix, and I’m happy, I’m very very happy that they kept it in. And it’s actually said by Kingsley in the movie, but in the book I think it’s said by Phineas Nigellus after Dumbledore flees the office.

Eric: Yeah, it is. You’re right.

Micah: And he says, “You may not agree with everything Dumbledore does, Minister. But you’ve got to admit, the man’s got style.”

Eric: Yeah.

Laura: Yeah, that was…

High Standards for Half-Blood Prince

Micah: And it’s one of my favorite lines in the entire series, and I’m really happy that that was kept in. But going back to what you guys were talking about before, one thing that I wanted to say was that there’s no excuses now to leave out crucial plot elements, because now all the books are out.

Kevin: And they know where it’s going, yeah.

Micah: They have all the information. So for Half-Blood Prince to lack anything would be a disappointment.

Eric: I quite agree. And I mean, Alan Rickman’s a great actor. I mean, come on, nobody denies that. And he’s keeping active. I’m looking at his IMDB page right now. He has four movies in advance. I mean, maybe I’m just not looking at the right websites, but where are the Alan Rickman interviews that are saying, “Okay, you play evil Severus Snape. What’s going on with that? Are you excited? What’s your game plan?” I don’t know much about Alan Rickman as an actor, if he likes to be approached by interviews, but I love to read that kind of stuff all the time, about how the adult actors portray their characters and are looking forward to the next installments and have been reading the books along with the trio. Do you know what I’m saying? I mean, the only actor we do hear about is Michael Gambon, who pretty much says he can’t be beeped [Laura laughs] to learn what it’s all about.

Laura: Oh my gosh.

Eric: So you know, I’d like to hear from Alan Rickman. I mean, he’s 60, he’s sexy, and he’s still acting, and he’s ready to go. I mean, come on, seriously. I’d just like to get an Alan Rickman interview, if that’s not too much to ask.

Micah: A lot of the interviews you get with Alan Rickman, though, are usually related to the other stuff he’s doing.

Eric: Yeah, that’s true.

Micah: And then occasionally, the interviewer will throw in a question about Harry Potter. You don’t get anything exclusively Harry Potter with him, which hopefully will change because of his role in Half-Blood Prince.

Eric: Yeah, I think they might even – I think it would be pretty cool as spin on the whole sort of marketing–I mean, what else are they going to do besides spin what they’ve already done? Then to center around Snape for the Movie 6 poster, do you reckon? I mean, not specifically Snape, of course, because that would give away the identity of the Half-Blood Prince, oooh. But Movie 5 was this whole kids, uprising, government. They show literally all the students that we know, the main characters, on the poster, which looked great, but what are they going to fit into “6”? More people? Or are they going to turn it into something different, and do like an Alan Rickman, Dumbledore, Voldemort’s past thing? Like what do you think?

Laura: I think that’s probably what they’re going to focus on, because if you look at the significance of Dumbledore’s Army, in the book it didn’t have a great amount of significance, except for the end when Neville and Luna came back. But it wasn’t like you really saw the same focus on that group of students as you saw in the fifth book, even. So, I think that there’s definitely going to be more of a focus put on the Harry-Dumbledore-Snape dynamic.

Eric: Oh, crap, that reminds me. Kevin, you don’t remember – because he didn’t really talk about Voldemort, did he, David Heyman, in the new interview?

Kevin: No, he didn’t.

Eric: Oh, that’s a shame, though, because he’s talking about Kloves – sorry, Steve Kloves – turning in a fun script, and sort of balancing romance with intrigue and spectacle, but I wonder where the whole Voldemort back story comes into that. Just thinking preemptively. I’m not saying just because we didn’t hear it in this interview it won’t exist. I don’t want to say that, but I’d like to hear about how they plan on doing that, because that’s quite a – it’s one thing to do a Hitler allegory in a book, in a contemporary book. But then to do it in mainstream cinema as well, you’ve sort of got to know what you’re doing.

Kevin: And don’t you mean David Yates?

Eric: Sorry, what did I say?

Kevin: Heyman.

[Kevin and Laura laugh]

Eric: David Yates, yes, of course. Well, there’s always these Davids, Davids, Davids.

Kevin: Yeah.

Laura: Okay, if that’s it, everybody? Everybody got their input out on the table?

Eric: That was incredible.

Laura: Yes? No? Maybe? Okay, let’s move on to some announcements now.

Eric: Yes.


Laura: Our fearless leader is gone once again this week. He and Jamie are essentially the biggest fan girls on earth and they just had to go spend a weekend in London to see the final performance of We Will Rock You. So guys, he’s abandoned you again. I think that listeners should start complaining.

Eric: No!

Micah: Don’t say that, we’ll get a lot of e-mails.

Eric: He’s still editing the show isn’t he Laura?

Laura: Okay, quit trying to make me feel guilty.

[Eric laughs]

Laura: Shut up, Eric.

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Eric: That’s why you haven’t had me on.

Laura: All right. But hopefully he’ll be back – hopefully he will be back next week as well as Jamie and we hope that they had a good time. Also Pickle Pack registration is now closed. The cut off date was September 30th. So thank you to all of those who signed up, we greatly appreciate your support of the show and at this point we don’t know about any sort of re-opening date for Pickle Pack. So, don’t count on it, but don’t think that we’ll never do it again. We’re just not sure at this point.

Scholastic Ticket Distribution Discussion

Laura: Also, one final thing before we let Eric take the floor on a special announcement of his, as everybody knows Jo’s going to be doing a reading in New York City at Carnegie Hall in the next couple of weeks. As far as I know, Micah you’re going to be there right? Well you’re going to be in the city?

Micah: Right.

Laura: Correct?

Micah: That is right..

Laura: Right. I’m going to go. Kevin, you were a maybe?

Kevin: Yeah.

Laura: Last time I heard.

Kevin: Still a maybe.

Laura: Okay, yeah, Kevin might be there, but essentially we all decided way back in July that regardless of who got tickets and regardless of whether anybody got tickets at all we were all going to get together in the city and hang out. I am actually very excited because I did end up with a ticket.

[Eric laughs]

Laura: So I will be going to the reading. Why are you laughing Eric?

Eric: I’m just laughing.

Laura: Okay.

Eric: I’m singing, “I got a golden ticket, I’ve got a golden ticket.”

Laura: I did. [laughs] Actually a listener Laura, who I think her name is an awesome name, what do you guys think?

Kevin: I don’t know.

Micah: Just get to the story, would you?

Eric: I think that ticket was meant for a Laura, Laura, but it might not have been Laura. It might be Laura who is originally intended, so Laura gave Laura a ticket, everybody and so thanks to Laura for giving Laura a ticket.

Laura: Yeah. It was – I can’t express how much – like how thankful I am to her because that was such a generous thing for her to do, so thank you again Laura, I really really appreciate that and I am looking forward to going to the reading.

Micah: That is really cool, but…

Laura: So, yeah?

Micah: One thing that we also did talk about, I don’t remember which show it was but, this whole idea about having the tickets distributed in this type of a way, through these raffles, contests, whatever you want to call them, I don’t particularly like this. You go back to 2006 in the summer with Radio City, it was a little bit different type of atmosphere with her coming in and reading with the other two authors and it all was going towards charity. I don’t understand why something similar to that wasn’t done this time. Why it’s such a select group of people that are going to be able to go? Because even when you’re looking at the three cities that she’s doing, only one of those shows is for people who aren’t in school. And I understand her appeal to those types of people, but she appeals to so many more that are now restricted from going. And us in particular, you know we’re not going to go out and put our names, well except if you’re Laura, we’re not going to go out and submit…

[Laura scoffs]

Micah: …to these contests.

Laura: [laughs] Oh my gosh! No!

Eric: Okay guys, we’re pretty…

Laura: Let me make something clear. Okay, I sent in an entry but I did not win tickets, how dare you Micah!

Eric: Wait Laura, Laura did win tickets.

Laura: We’re not friends anymore.

Eric: And Laura has a ticket. MuggleCast Laura now has a ticket. I don’t know, I…

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: I see a parallel.

[Micah laughs]

Eric: I see a connection.

Micah: No but not poking fun at Laura. Putting this all aside, I wanted to get your guys’ opinions on this because as staff members of a Harry Potter website we’re not going to go and submit to these contests because then it would seem as if it was unfair if we came out on the other end with tickets and we’re essentially taking them away from somebody else.

Eric: Right. Because we would never do that.

Laura: Mmmm. Okay. Yeah. I mean you’re talking about basically the exclusivity of the event. Like, how it’s become – how it seems like it’s becoming somewhat difficult to get into these things?

Eric: Well, nd it’s limited. Such a limited audience. I mean yeah school children are sort of – yeah but Micah’s just saying she appeals to so many more people and if she’s going to do these sort of secluded events, how are we going to see her? Is that what you’re saying Micah? Like how – wnot just how are we, but how are the majority of fans – but I think it’s a matter of there’s no venue big enough, you know? I mean there’s no – and this is certainly just the first sort of wave of readings she’ll be doing. She might do an international tour or J.K. Rowling on the Orient Express, you know something like that maybe sometime in the future.

Micah: I disagree with that though because you go back to Radio City last summer and those shows weren’t sold out. You know there were still seats available the day of. So, to think that she is going to fill up all these places…

[Eric mutters something]

Micah: …which she very well might if she opened it up to more people being able to come and see her other than – and I’m not saying it’s her.

Laura: No, it’s not her.

Micah: It may be Scholastic who’s setting these guidelines saying that this is what needs to happen. So… But I just think, you know, we feel, I feel left out like I have no power to go ahead and to ensure that I would be going by going and purchasing a ticket.

Eric: Oh hey, Micah, you used to do a segment on this show right? And didn’t it used to produce results? From JKR? Do you think you could try your hand in that old magic hat again?

Micah: [laughs] Uhhh, yeah.

Eric: Maybe get something to change and she’ll be mentioning that all of you yanks in America will be going to – and yeah maybe she’ll pay your plane fare too, Kevin, from France because I guess it’s quite expensive.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Geez, you’re not in France…

Kevin: Well I think that the thing is that she can’t please everyone and they have to set a cap on the number of people and I think JK Rowling enjoys more intimate events where there’s fewer people and she can interact with the fans directly…

Eric: That’s the other thing too…

Kevin: …and she doesn’t have enough time to be greeting 10 – 20,000 fans, it’s just impossible.

Laura: Yeah, not to mention everybody at this event is getting a signed book. So…

Eric: Oh, wow.

Kevin: Exactly, so her hand has to be braced and iced.

Eric: [laughs] We were talking about that. Yeah she might not need to ever write again so it wouldn’t matter she’d still need to sign.

Micah: Well I mean, intimate setting, I unerstand what you’re saying Kevin, but the Kodak Theatre in Los Angeles is not a small place. Carnegie Hall is not a small place.

Kevin: Right, but the setting comes from the number of people as well.

Micah: Well I agree, I’m not saying you open it up to more people, I’m just saying allow an event where you’re not restricting, you know, everybody is able to purchase tickets, when you limit it to a contest you, you know, you’re not giving everybody the opportunity to go ahead, and it’s not – I don’t know, I just feel like in a way, you’re restricting people with these types of readings.

Eric: Well, I think I have an idea.

Kevin: Well, she’s making it luck and not financial resources.

Eric: Yeah, yeah. I mean that’s the other thing too. When you get…

Micah: Well, age as well.

Eric: Well, when you fet tickets, Micah, that’s the thing. If something is hot, if it’s like, a hot ticket, like We Will Rock you, for instance, it’s final show. I don’t know how Andrew and Jamie got tickets. But the fact is, when you get tickets for, you know, hot tickets, what happens? Same thing with the iPhone and PlayStation 3, right? People buy them up and sell them for five times more on ebay the next day.

Kevin: That’s true.

Eric: And it’s all the gamers that are – not the gamers but, you know, 30, 40-year old guys…

[Laura laughs]

Eric: …Who ae grabbing thse tickets from these oherwise school children who have to beg their moms and dads to you know, dip into their college fund to pay for JKR. You know? I mean it’s not, obviously, that dramatic, but doing it with the school I’m thinking okay, so if JKR wants to sort of get rid of the whole money, competition, because money is evil, lets face it. It’s one of the big evils, you know? If she wants to get rid of that, she can just do this thing with schools. And it’s true, it’s not necessarily, it’s not open by any means, but it is luck and it is a raffle, and she can choose sort of schools in the area and say okay, this one’s going, you know? Yes, it would – it is – people would – you know, people are getting left out, but I’m thinking, what would be the alternative? People running away with a truck full of Half-Blood Prince and holding someone at gunpoint? I mean, you know, these things have happend in the past.

Laura: [laughs What!

Eric: I think JKR – that happend, that was a real story! Wasn’t it? There was a gun involved in the Half-Blood Prince.

Laura: Yeah, but it was a fake gun.

Kevin: You do also have to realize that the thought was put into the contest.

[Eric laughs]

Kevin: If you notice, she didn’t have any internet sign up, she made you send it in. I mean, just that as, at least from a computer science standpoint, I know exactly what she was doing, and what she was doing, or Scholastic was doing, was making it so you couldn’t submit you name multiple times under different addresses, and it makes it so that there’s like a bottleneck where you actually have to sit down and write out the, you know, the submission. Because if you put it i online, people will create scripts that will submit their name 10,000 times in a different way.

Eric: Could you write a script for that, theoretically for that Kevin?

Kevin: You could. Absolutley. And the same thing happens with tickets online. If – I can guarnetee you that I will get the first ticket, or nearly the first ticket, for any event if I spend enough time coding the script to do it.

Eric: And that’s it before Kevin gets taken away.

Micah: And before we all get arrested.

Eric: So now we are going on to…

[Everyone laughs]

Kevin: No, it’s not – it’s by no means illegal.

Eric: It’s not a threat.

Kevin: It’s not illegal.

Eric: Oh, it’s not illegal?

Kevin: It’s totally legal. No, not at all. I’m allowed to use it.

Eric: To write a script?

Kevin: To sign myself up for tickets online, absolutely not. It’s totally legal. But what it enables, what computers enable people to do is manipulate the system where all of a sudden this fair competition isn’t so fair anymore.

Eric: So we’re thinking the fact that so many children are getting to see it, who are otherwise just school kids, might be the whole point in and of itself. It’s not that we’re all getting out, but we’re in the non-safe world where people cheat, and so maybe I mean, just for this event. And she did open one up to the public, is the Canada one going to be public as well?

Micah: No, I think it’s school-based as well.

Laura: I don’t know.

Micah: Because they were – I forget the exact wording of it, but I believe that it’s all being done through the school system. And look, I’m not saying – don’t get me wrong, there’s nothing wrong with that, I think it’s a great idea how she’s doing that with all the different schools. My point is, can you have one event where it’s not a contest-related event. You’re able to go if you can, you know, pay your way to go.

Eric: Well, you can have one event, that’s the New York event, isn’t it?

Micah: No, that’s – wasn’t that all contest-based?

Laura: No, you had to win tickets.

Micah: Yeah.

Laura: Yeah, it was all contest based.

Eric: Oh, so.

Micah: And me, myself, and I know a lot of MuggleNet staff, aren’t going to go and enter those contests for the exact same reason that I mentioned before.

Eric: We don’t want to disadvantage the fans.

Micah: And you don’t want it to be seen as some sort of favoritism, so you know, then it falls on – it’s just like working for any company. You know, if you work for Major League Baseball, you’re not going to enter into a contest to win tickets to the World Series. You’re not allowed to do that. You know, it’s against your contract or whatever. You legally can’t do that. So, I mean it’s the same thing in our place, you know. We’re not going to go an enter a contest because we work for a Harry Potter fansite.

Eric: Yeah. Except for some of that is…

Laura: Unless you’re me. In which case, you do. [laughs]

Eric: No unless you get a girl with your exact name. What’s this other Laura’s last name, huh? Are you sure?

Laura: I’m not going to tell everyone her last name.

Eric: No, I didn’t actually want you to, I didn’t actually want you to.

Laura: [laughs] Okay. I was going to be like, no.

Eric: I was actually talking without thinking, which is very dangerous when I do it.

MuggleCast Down Under

Laura: You had a special announcement, right Eric?

Eric: Yes, I did. Now as few of you may have heard this on, at the end, the tail end of last week’s amazing episode. I haven’t heard it all yet, but I know that Jamie was really funny and I really want to listen to Episode 114 but, MuggleCast is going down under. That’s right, yes. MuggleCast is coming to Australia and we are doing two events, one in Melbourne and one in Sydney. Actually that’s strike that, cross that, reverse it. Sydney first, Sydney event, Sidney, Australia, and then the Melbourne event. It is official, we are doing these events. We’ve already got a Facebook group called MuggleCast-Down Under!. And that’s actually just the signs, not spelled out. And we have a logo which you guys might see if you’re all on Facebook. You can join the group if you’re not coming, I think, it’s just, we’ll have an event coming out as well once we know more details. Now, it is official, though. I am stressing that because before I was talking about it being preliminary, you know, sort of not completely official, but it is official. It is official. We are definitely doing a MuggleCast meet-up, however, because it is going to be the same weekend that you guys – the rest of the MuggleCasters – are in New York City. So, it’s going to be the weekend of the 19th, the 20th, and the 21st. It could be that Friday and Saturday or Friday and Sunday. We’re still working on details, but I do want to stress, it is actually official. And so we’re taking sign-ups, we’re taking – sorry – we’re just taking RSVPs, just to hear back from how many people could make it because we’re trying to finalize details with the venue and things like that. It’s all a bit complicated, I’ll mention it on MuggleCast.com, but the only announcement I guess left on the shirt?

Kevin: The shirt?

Eric: Sorry, thinking ahead of myself. The only announcement left to make just on here quickly is t-shirts, which is – I’m just happy to announce it because we haven’t talked about t-shirts on the show, and I just love talking about t-shirts on MuggleCast. Okay, what’s happening is the logo that you see on Facebook group will be used to create some really amazing t-shirts, which are actually essential to these shows. They’ll be available specifically by pre-order; that’ll be the only way to guarantee that you get one, and they’ll actually be pre-ordered through a website that will be available, but they have the really cool kangaroo holding an iPod with the MuggleCast Down Under sort of logo thing. So, we’ll be giving more details, everything, just check MuggleCast.com, and Sydney helpers are wanted. We’re still trying to – Melbourne we’ve got the most response in, I’ll tell you that. That’s surprising people, that’s surprising. But, just generally, we need – if anybody’s interested in helping us out with Sydney, possibly, like event staff type people, please just let me know. Details MuggleCast.com, thank you very much.

Laura: Cool. That sounds really exciting, Eric. I’m really looking forward to hearing how that goes.

Eric: It’s really taking off.

MuggleCast 115 Transcript (continued)

Podcast Alley

Laura: Yeah, it sounds like it. It sounds like you have a lot of people who are hyped up for it. So, good luck with that. One final announcement, it is a new month, so please be sure to vote for us on Podcast Alley. We’ve got to beat Keith and the Girl and all those other people.

Eric: Are we going to beat them up?

Laura: We haven’t actually, you know, we haven’t actually jabbed at them for a while on the show, so I thought it was appropriate. So let’s move on to some of our newly named “Muggle Mail.” As you know, these used to be called rebuttals, but apparently, Andrew decided they needed to be renamed.

Eric: Oh god. Why doesn’t he just call them, like, Pickle Poppers or – I don’t know.

Muggle Mail: Clearing Up a Name

Laura: Yeah, I don’t know. The first one comes from Jessie, 21, of Virginia. She says:

Jaime read a feedback e-mail regarding the live episodes, and said that the e-mailer hadn’t left their name, but thought they were from New Jersey because they went all fan-gasmic about Andrew. Nope! ‘Twas me, Jessie, from Virginia! Virginians love Andrew, too. I promise. It must be known that the now-dubbed Mrs. Sims hails from Virginia, only because Virginians aren’t recognized often enough on MuggleCast (our fault, I believe). That’s why I figured I should e-mail this response-to-my-response, not at all because I would rather not be associated with New Jersey. No, not at all. Love from, Jessie.

Eric: What? So there’s a rivalry between Virginia and New Jersey now, and not only did she clarify that it was Jessie from Virginia, but now she has said that we dubbed her “Mrs. Sims.” That’s a very tricky way to dub yourself Mrs. Sims.

Micah: I dubbed her – I dubbed him – well, is it a her or a him?

Eric: Jessie?

Micah: Do we know?

Eric: With an “i.”

Laura: I’m assuming that’s…

Eric: J-E-S-S-I-E. Is that really going to be a guy?

Micah: I don’t know, I don’t want to offend anybody.

Laura: Okay, let’s just put this out there: we are assuming because you said “Mrs.” So…

Micah: No, I called them “Mrs. Sims.”

Eric: So, it could…

Laura: Okay, well, I think they would’ve corrected you if you were wrong.

Eric: Yeah, I think so, too.

Micah: All right, anyway, do you want me to read the next one here?

Eric: Unless they like being called” Mrs. Sims.”

[Laura laughs]

Laura: Hey, some people… Some people are really…

Micah: All right.

Eric: Shout out to Virginians, shout out to Virginians everybody. We do know – hey all, holla. Holla, Virginia fans. Love you all, goodnight.

Micah: Okay…

Kevin: Oh boy.

Laura: All right, Micah, you want to read the next one?

Muggle Mai: Bill Nighy as Rufus Scrimgeour

Micah: All right, sure. The next one comes from Richard, 16, in Denver, Colorado about actors in movies six and seven, he says:

Hi, I’m a big fan of the show, I started listening to it this summer while I was on vacation, and I was counting the seconds for each podcast to come out during the weeks of the ‘Deathly Hallows’ hype. Anyway, I’ve heard a lot of stuff on the show about suggestions for actors for the future films, and I always thought that Bill Nighy…

Micah: Is that how you say that?

Laura: Yeah, that’s right.

Micah: …who plays Davy Jones from ‘Pirates of the Caribbean’ playing Rufus Scrimgeour. I read somewhere about him considering a role in ‘Harry Potter,’ joking that he was the only British actor to not be in a ‘Harry Potter’ film. Well, I hope you find this interesting. Good luck with future shows, and nice job with the 12-hour podcast.

So, what do you guys think?

Laura: I would actually really like that. Whenever she said that, I don’t know if you guys have seen the second – or not the second one, the third Pirates of the Caribbean. There’s one point where you actually see Davy Jones as he appeared before he grew tentacles, and I was thinking about that somewhat in context of what Aberforth might look like, and I really like Bill Nighy looked with, like, the white beard – or, the grey beard and everything. So, I think he’d be good, like, looks wise, at least. He’s a great actor, so…

Micah: He’s a straggly-looking guy.

Laura: Yeah.

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah.

Laura: Who likes goats.

Eric: I mean, when they did that Pirates, I didn’t know what they were doing it. I mean, it was cool to look at, but, at any rate, it’s him and, what is it, Bob Hoskins, we mentioned at the live podcast in London and there was a fan who said that she heard that JKR, through an interview somewhere, said that she had a role reserved for Bob Hoskins in the seventh film, which we can now speculate might be Luna’s Dad, Xenopheleous Lovegood. That’s just my own personal opinion, I’m not starting a rumor – but, so it’s Bill Nighy and Bob Hoskins are the two actors I think I’d like to see in Harry Potter 7.

Laura: Awesome. That sounds really cool. I really like that.

Micah: And where would we know him from?

Eric: Bob Hoskins? He played Smee in Hook with Robin Williams and Dustin Hoffman and Julia Roberts.

Micah: Okay.

Eric: Yep. That’s my favorite movie with him in it that I’ve seen, but I think that’s probably the only one that I’ve seen. So…

Laura: Okay. Eric, do you want to read the next one?

Eric: Yep, sure, let me just see in Firefox, by the way, shout out to Firefox.

Laura: It’s Alex.

Muggle Mail: Could Harry Have Survived Another Killing Curse? Priori Incantatem vs. Resurrection Stone Beings

Eric: Okay, so this is from Alex, age 14, Charlotte, North Carolina, and this is a couple of questions for discussion. Message is:

Awesome show guys, just some questions I’ve had after finishing ‘DH’ for the 50th time.

Somehow, I’m doubting this guy’s credibility.

During the final battle scene, could Harry have survived another ‘Avada Kedavra’ from Voldemort, since Lord Voldemort had, as Dumbledore put it, ‘tethered [Harry] to life while he lives’? If so, would a Killing Curse from someone else be unable to kill him, or would it have to be from Lord Voldemort? What was the difference between the ‘beings’ that appeared from Harry using the Resurrection Stone, and the ‘beings’ that appeared during the ‘Priori Incantatem’ sequence in ‘Goblet of Fire’? Thanks, and keep up the good work!

Should we take the second question first?

Laura: Sure, yeah. I have more thoughts on that one, but you go for it Eric.

Eric: I am just guessing that the Priori Incantatem – that is a good question though. Just imagine, actually I have a long reply so why don’t you guys go first?

Laura: Okay.

Micah: Okay.

Laura: I was going to say that I am not sure that there is a different in the actual beings. I think of the difference as more of the way of invoking them. We know that the reason Harry saw all of those – and they were not even ghosts, Dumbledore referred them as “shadows” was because of Priori Incantatem, Harry forced all of the previous spells on in backwards order to erupt from Voldemort’s wand. So, of course, we saw the last people he had killed. The Resurrection Stone, obviously shows you people that you love or people that are related to you who are dead. But, I don’t think that they are actually spirits, if that is part of your prediction.

Micah: Yeah, I was just going to agree completely…

Kevin: I think so too, yeah.

Micah: …what you said Laura. Yeah.

Eric: Do you think that they are not spirits?

Laura: I do not think…

Eric: From the Resurrection Stone. I mean from, do you really think that they are not though? Like from, because they seem to…

Laura: Because…

Eric: …have current knowledge of Lupin and Tonks – or Lupin said, “I wish I would like to see my son grow up but oh well J.K.R. killed me off lets move on.”

Laura: Yeah, but I almost wondered if a lot of that came from Harry’s subconscious whenever he was at the “King’s Cross” area with Dumbledore and Dumbledore said to Harry “This is all in your mind.”

Eric: Yeah, but the Resurrection Stone is not something imaginary its not like it is something that will bring something back imaginarily to you. It was something that…

Laura: I guess, I do not know. But, I think it has something to do with the idea that Dumbledore said that the ones who love us never truly leave us, or was that Sirius, I do not remember who said that. [laughs]

Eric: You’re right though. You’re right though.

Laura: But, I do not think that necessarily Lilly and James trailed along behind Harry invisibly all of his years of life.

Eric: Well, no. I mean, whether or not the sprits were – I guess it is kind of irrelevant to think that but because – not what you think but that spirits wouldn’t be – because it does not matter really if they are spirits or if they have been in Harry all along in a way, just because they are there to offer him guidance in ways that he would not, you know, otherwise predict. It does not matter that they exist because there is an afterlife or it does not matter simply because his psyche is willing them into being I guess because if they are in the Resurrection Stone then the fact is they sort of offer their character or whatever. I was just thinking though, I did think that there are spirits, like out of Priori Incantatem it seemed like not that Lily and James were trapped in Voldemort’s wand or anything forever but, you know this sort of wand thing will hold him off, sort of his intelligence seemed to be sort of a spiritual entity to me. I just remember reading an R.L. Stine’s “Goosebumps” book The Haunted School which reminded me of something to do with students trapped in school for a real long time for a really good reasons, probably my favorite “Goosebumps” book. It just seemed to me that they were sprits. That they possess some sort of sentient knowledge that was always beyond Harry, but does not necessarily mean that they were not spirits.

Laura: But, can’t that be some what related to the portraits. I mean we know that the portraits are really – I mean they are not living people. But, they possess the knowledge of…

Kevin: I was thinking that – see, it seems to me that the portraits are, well, different because the portraits were at one time painted or created with magic to hold the personality of the person who would eventually go into them. But with the Resurrection Stone I am somewhat inclined that they were somewhat like spirits, but called by the Resurrection Stone itself.

Laura: That would make sense.

Kevin: Where it is not necessarily – with the wand I think it may have been different because it was re-living – it was sort of recounting the experiences of the wand and just like the portraits it picks up the personality and certain, maybe vivid memories of the person that had been killed with the wand, but it wasn’t like Dumbledore said, “shadows,” you know, the shadows of the person cast at the time of their death.

Eric: And wasn’t the original story of The Beatle and the Bard about the Resurrection Stone? Wasn’t that – didn’t it say something about the love ones wanting to bring loves ones back? The brother who was trying to bring his – because I am trying to think that when Harry turned the Resurrection Stone specific people appeared to him, which is the same with Priori Incantatem, you know, the previous spells or whatever, but Lupin appeared to him and Sirius and all the people who could make his final decision whether or not he wanted to sort of go in guns ablazin’ or try and give faith into the Hallows. Like, it just seemed like specific set of loved one were there and those were the ones that he originally seen all along and after this journey. It seemed to possess more of a knowledge and more of a presence than something that was specifically there because it had to be or for Priori Incantatem or a portrait or something.

Laura: Yeah. I like it. Very good.

Eric: The first part was just about Avada Kedavra‘s death-cursing Harry. Could Harry have jumped off a cliff and survive just for the mere fact that once Voldemort was in human form his blood was tying Harry to the world.

Kevin: I don’t think so.

Eric: I don’t think so either.

Kevin: Because you have to realize the prophecy and all that was surrounding it was giving certain circumstances: would Harry ever jump off a cliff? No. And because of that he would, you know, he would die if he jumped off the cliff but he would never jump off a cliff? You know what I mean?

Laura: Yeah. It is self-fulfilling.

Kevin: Yeah, exactly.

Eric: As Harry Potter that would suck. It would be like The Sopranos ending, it would just cut to black, you know?

Muggle Mail: Motorcylce Connection

Laura: Oh gosh. All right. The next one comes from Kim, 19 from Texas. She writes:

Hey Y’all. I just wanted to add something to your last discussion about parallels between the 1st and 7th books. I loved how in the 1st book, Hagrid and Harry rode the flying motorcycle to the Dursley’s (for Harry’s first time) and then in the 7th, Hagrid and Harry left the Dursley’s (for Harry’s last time) on the motorcycle as well. It was a nice touch of Jo, I think. Love the show!

Yeah. I didn’t think about that at all, and then I saw about it in the Writely, and I thought it was really brilliant.

Micah: Kim’s on top of things.

Laura: Yeah. I liked that a lot.

Eric: I want to cry now.

Muggle Mail: Voldemort in Books 1 and 7

Laura: Awww. Okay. The next ones comes from Bill “Gabrielle,” 53, from Brisbane, I think that is how you say it.

Eric: Yeah. It’s Brisbane, and I think it is Bill “Gabriel.” Give the man some masculinity here.

Laura: “Gabriel?” Okay, Gabrielle, my bad. I’m sorry. I’m a girl. I read things differently.

Eric: Yeah, I know.

Laura: He’s from Brisbane, Australia, and he writes:

There are seven books. The most obvious symmetry is that Voldemort attains physical form in ‘Goblet of Fire.’ Up until then he was a shadow and afterward a corporeal being.

Did I say that right?

Eric: Yeah, corporeal being. Yeah, something like that. Nobody knows how to pronounce that word for real. Don’t send in e-mails.

Voicemail: Peter Pettigrew

Laura: Yeah. All right. Thank you everybody for sending in those rebuttals, or Muggle Mail as we now call it. This week we will be moving into an all voicemail show which we haven’t done in a while, so we are pretty excited about that. Kevin, are you ready to roll the first one?

[Audio]: Hi, this is Louise, and I’m from Tennesee, and I was calling because I have a question about Peter Pettigrew. I’ve just, I’ve always had a hard time understanding why he was sorted into Gryffindor. I thought he would redeem himself in the seventh book, but he never really did anything in my opinion that made it make sense that he was in Gryffindor, so I was wondering if you guys could talk about that. Thanks! Love the show!

Eric: Micah, what do you think?

Micah: Oh, thanks for throwing it right to me.

[Laura laughs]

Micah: Uhhh, I think…

Eric: I thought I’d catch you off guard.

Micah: No. You didn’t catch me off guard. I actually have a response, so…

Eric: Oh. Well darn!

Micah: You tried your best. You tried your best.

Eric: Laura, what do you think?

Micah: No, no, no! Um, I think…

Eric: All right. I pass.

Micah: I think that there are different forms of bravery, and I think that with Pettigrew, he was brave in a different way. I takes a tremendous amount of courage, I think, to betray your friends, and to go and do what he did.

[Kevin sighs]

Laura: Oooo!

Eric: Wait a minute.

Laura: That’s dark, Micah!

Eric: Wait a minute. It takes fear. It takes fear, Micah.

Micah: No, no. It takes courage, because you may not be seeing – I think part of with Pettigrew was sorted into Gryffindor is also Jo’s way of saying not every bad wizard is in Slytherin.

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: And I think she meant to demonstrate that point, but I think if you look at Pettigrew in that aspect, you see what he does. He is a Gryffindor, I think that there is an element courage in what he does, and it may not be courage in the good sense, because people like to think about courage in the good sense all the time, but it doesn’t necessarily exist that way.

Eric: Or something to be – yeah. Yep.

Kevin: Well, I thought of it in a different way. The way I thought of it was, at the end of Book 7, Harry leaned down to Albus was it? Hello?

Laura: Yeah.

Kevin: Albus…

Eric: Albus Severus. Give the kid his middle name back. Hyarr gve it to him. Never take it away.

Kevin: And said that you don’t necessarily have to be sorted into a particular house, you can ask.

Eric: Well, it’s that the choices aren’t – It’s not FINAL based on…

Kevin: Exactly.

Eric: Yeah.

Laura: Yeah.

Kevin: If Peter had found friends who were in Gryffindor, what do you think he would have said to the Sorting Hat given that his friends all got sorted into Gryffindor?

Eric: Or not even that. Let’s keep with his personality. Maybe he thought all the mean kids in Slytherin would beat him up. [laughs] So he’s like, please don’t put me in there. I know that I’m a rat pip-squeak, but those kids are going to beat me up. Please put me in Gryffindor, which happened to be their rival. Maybe he didn’t know, and so the Sorting Hat did.

Kevin: Exactly, so I think it’s not necessarily him being brave either. It’s just possibly that he had asked.

Eric: I think that I would probably plea not enough info.

Kevin: Well, of course, yeah.

Eric: The whole thing is just speculation.

Micah: No, I don’t think he would have asked. I don’t think that his will is as strong as Harry’s. I don’t think that. I think that Harry was a specific case asking to be in Gryffindor. He sort of willed it to happen. It was his choice. I don’t think Pettigrew would have had that sort of power.

Eric: Oh, you’re probably true. Though, again, do we know or do we not know what house Dumbledore was in? I’m sorry if I asked that stupid question.

Laura: I believe he was a Gryffindor, right?

Eric: Yeah, because Dumbledore’s quite questionable, isn’t he now? In light of Book 7, it’s questionable whether it was moral to go – and I’m not going to go into a rant except to say that some of it is actually – and Harry questioned Godric Gryffindor’s, I don’t want to say, integrity. Godric Gryffindor himself- it was rumored by Griphook that he stole the sword from the Goblins and all that sort of thing, so there could be a nepharious quality or character trait in Gryffindors and I think it shows that writing a book with four houses, you have to make cuts and say, look this house is this. This house is this, without actually meaning it, and luckily Jo has provided us with some different characters that are ambiguous to their house.

Kevin: Well, either way I think Micah was right. His character was used to say that, you know, Slytherin isn’t the only house that produces bad wizards.

Laura: Yeah. I agree with that.

Eric: Yeah, and Snape, obviously Snape was, you know?

Voicemail: Moaning Myrtle and Horcruxes

Laura: Mhm. All right. Next voicemail:

[Audio]: Hi. This is Katy Barrett. I’m from Idaho. I was just listening to Episode 97. It’s kind of a long time ago, I know, but I was noticing how you guys were talking about the Horcruxes and how you thought Tom Riddle could have made a Horcrux from Moaning Myrtle’s death, because he used the basilisk, and whether it was the malicious intent or whether it was the actual killing. I don’t think that Tom Riddle sent the basilisk to kill Moaning Myrtle. It was by sheer happenstance that she was in the bathroom at the same time that the basilisk was sent out to probably harm or stun or petrify someone else. I was just wondering about your comments on that, because I don’t think he really sent that to her, but I do think that it is the actual killing that has to do with the Horcrux. Anyways, I love the show. I just started listening. It’s a favorite of mine now, okay. Thanks! Bye!

Eric: That’s awesome.

Laura: Yeah. I think that was a very good point.

Eric: That’s the best. A new listener. So, I think it would follow then that he didn’t make a Horcrux with the killing, because it would have just been an accident that he killed Moaning Myrtle in the first place, and I think that is probably right given Myrtle’s account in Book 2.

Kevin: See, but see the thing is is that I don’t think – I think he could have made a Horcrux with it, because he sent the basilisk out, which was with malicious intent. Whether it killed her by accident or not, it doesn’t matter. It still killed her with his order to go out into the school.

Eric: That’s like saying – no that’s not like saying. I’m not sure I agree with that.

Kevin: It’s sort of like saying, I’m going to set up a gun, so that if anyone pulls this door handle, the gun is going to go off and fire at them…

Eric: Right.

Kevin: And then when your good friend opens the door handle, and pulls it and gets killed from the gun…

Eric: Dude…

Kevin: It’s still…

Eric: Have you been watching Saw?

[Laura laughs]

Kevin: No, but what I’m saying is…

Eric: Ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, Saw IV, October 26th. Don’t go see it, okay?

Kevin: No, but what I’m saying is that perhaps your intention was a thief kept breaking into your house and, you know, doing something, but the intent – you set up the gun, knowing that it could hurt someone.

Eric: Well, look, these days…

Kevin: Just like he sent out the basilisk knowing it could easily kill someone.

Laura: I can tell you’re in a philosophy class right now.

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Eric: Kevin, remember, these days if a thief breaks into your thing and gets hurt, he can actually sue you.

Kevin: Yeah, this has actually happened.

Eric: [laughs] So…

Kevin: This has actually happened.

Eric: Oh god, so you know the story?

Kevin: Where someone actually set up a gun, because a thief kept breaking into his summer house, and it ended up…

Eric: And his friend?

Kevin: No, it ended up seriously hurting the thief, and he sued and got arrested, the guy who set up the gun. But…

Laura: Wow!

Kevin: Yeah.

Eric: Now that’s a little bit messed up.

Micah: Back to the basilisk.

Eric: I was just going to say how hard it must be to go after the family, that’s just questionable.

Kevin: But, what I was trying to say was, the intent of doing- sending out the basilisk, was knowing all the consequences surrounding it.

Micah: Oh yeah, no, I agree with that.

Eric: That’s true.

Kevin: Okay.

Micah: But I don’t necessarily think that he initially was going to release the basilisk to create a Horcrux. I think he was doing it to just kill all the people who weren’t pureblood, and so, you know, I agree with what the person who sent in the voicemail said. I think that it was just an unintentional death. I don’t think that he created a Horcrux out of Moaning Myrtle. I think she just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Kevin: Well, hasn’t…

Eric: Well, I think…

Kevin: Hasn’t J.K. Rowling said which Horcruxes were created from which people?

Eric: I wish. No.

Kevin: I could…

Eric: I mean, I would assume – I mean, I just don’t remember, but I assume that Tom Riddle, at the point, was interested in finding out all the secrets as much as he could, as to quote, about Salazar Slytherin. Somehow he found the Chamber- -god, I’d like to know actually.

Laura: Yeah.

Micah: Laura, that’s…

Eric: But…

Micah: That’s your…

Laura: What?

Eric: Or not as much about Horcruxes.

Micah: Laura, that’s you question. Don’t you get to ask a question? Or is it selected people get to ask questions?

Laura: Yes, everybody does get to submit a question, and then they select a certain amount of them, just like they did…

Micah: That’s a good question. Ask J.K. Rowling who died…

Laura: [laughs] Okay.

Micah: …ro create all these Horcruxes.

Laura: Which Horcruxes, okay.

Kevin: I’m fairly sure she said Moaning Myrtle was a person in an interview.

Eric: But that’s messed up. Even if it did, I’m sorry, I would say that would be messed up. Not…

Laura: [laughs] Well, if she said that, it’s not.

Eric: Not out of spite, but I think that that’s just condensing everything. That’s like saying, “Okay, I wrote it in the book because that’s when it was.” That’s like saying, “Nothing that didn’t happen in the book didn’t happen.” Which is unrealistic in a way. It’s sort of unrealistic to say she chronicled all of the important events in Voldemort’s life already in the past. I don’t k now that that would make her an expert author, as much as it would, sort of – it seems like things were- were sort of being pushed in and saying, “This was this, and also that, and by the way.” You know? All that sort of stuff gets a little bit confusing, cramped, I think. To say that Moaning Myrtle not only was the girl who died 50 years ago to serve Book 2’s plot, but the entrance to the Chamber of Secrets, that she died by this and was…

Micah: Well, Wikipedia, here…

Eric: I’m not saying- it’s a possibility.

Micah: No, Wikipedia here is saying that she was used to create the diary Horcrux. Now, whether that- there’s no evidence saying that J.K. Rowling said that. There’s no link to an article.

Kevin: I have – I’m looking at that, too. One sec.

Laura: Yeah, let’s look at that really quick and then correct ourselves if we were wrong.

Micah: But that’s what Wikipedia says.

Eric: Don’t- no, don’t believe Wikipedia. I mean, that’s the first time I’ve ever said that in my life, because I’m writing an essay, right now, and they tell you Wikipedia is not a credible source, so…

Kevin: Yes, I was – I was right, during her little web chat with Bloomsbury, Lady Bella asked, “Whose murders did Voldemort use to create each of the Horcruxes?” J.K. Rowling’s response, “The Diary, Moaning Myrtle. The Cup, Hepzibah Smith, the previous owner. The locket, a Muggle tramp. Nagini, Bertha Jerkins. The [stumbles over word] Diadem…

Laura: Diadem.

Kevin: …an Albanian peasant. The ring, Tom Riddle, Senior.”

Laura: Okay.

Micah: Oh, wait a second…

Eric: And Harry.

Micah: So much for killing meaningful people. The tramp and the peasant.

[Laura laughs]

Micah: I mean come on.

Eric: Well, it wasn’t about killing meaningful people. It was about meaningful, significant deaths. Oh yeah, that’s the same thing. [ laughs] Oh gosh.

Micah: Well, I guess the item has to be significant, not the person that he killed.

Eric: I don’t know, man. You got Jo, man.

Micah: A tramp and a peasant.

Eric: You got her.

Micah: She was grasping for straws. She wasn’t ready for that question.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Yeah, actually I agree. Maybe we can ask her that – Laura, ask her that same question. See if you get a different answer.

Laura: No, I’m not going to ask her the same question. I’m pretty sure she knows what she was doing. So let’s move on to the next voicemail?

Micah: Sure.

Voicemail: The Potion Basin

[Audio]: Hey, Mugglenet, this is Julian from Andover. I’m calling to say I love the show and I have a question about Deathly Hallows, about how the potion basin refills itself. Because in Chapter 10, Kreacher says that when he goes to the lake with Voldemort, Voldemort makes him drink the potion and then he has to refill the basin, but who refills it when he goes with Regulas? Regulas, obviously, isn’t in a state to do that. Anyways, just wondering what your thoughts were on that. I love listening to the show. Thanks for your time. Bye!

Eric: It’s like a screensaver.

Laura: Oooh, good question.

Eric: You know, after five minutes of inactivity, it goes back.

Laura: [laughs] That is very interesting. Because I was actually just reading that and it did specifically say that Voldemort had to refill it the first time.

Eric: Oh crap.

Micah: Hmmm.

Laura: Hmmm.

Kevin: My- my inclination would be that there were instructions. I would say that J.K. Rowling initially intended to write it so that either Kreacher or Regulas refilled it, because he did not want to leave it so that Voldemort would have an inclination that something was wrong. But I would guess that she, either through editing or, you know, by mistake, left out that.

Micah: Now, who refilled it, though, after Dumbledore drank it? ‘Cause, does – in the scene where Voldemort goes to the cave, doesn’t he have to…

Eric: Oh, isn’t it there again?

Kevin: Oh, you’re right. I don’t know.

Eric: I think…

Laura: Maybe she intended for it to actually refill itself.

Micah: Yeah, that’s what I thought.

Laura: And there was just…

Eric: Like, I mean – like, I mean, you can drink it and it doesn’t refill itself immediately. Like, the only thing that can affect it is if you drink it, but we’re talking, like, you know, an hour, two hours.

Kevin: Yeah, but…

Eric: Like, after you don’t drink it, it refills itself.

Kevin: It just seems strange that Voldemort would refill it though.

Eric: Yeah, like…

Kevin: There’s -t here…

Eric: I’m going to come back here a refill it. He would have never expected.

Kevin: I would say – I would say it’s one of those small inconsistencies that were left open.

Laura: Yeah.

Kevin: You should ask that, Laura.

Laura: Yeah, but I’m not going to ask her about an inconsistency. That’s…

Kevin: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like a technicality type thing…

Laura: Ridiculous.

Eric: Where she can just go…

Kevin: So, you can nitpick everything she does. Yeah.

Laura: Yeah, so she can glare at me and be, like…

Kevin: You’ve only written over five, six-thousand pages, you know. Why’d you make this one mistake in…?

Eric: Laura – yeah, yeah, honestly. There, Kevin’s got it. She wouldn’t glare, though. She’d smile. Very big JKR smile.

Laura: Okay.

Eric: Yeah. You know, because she respects people. The – the thing I like is that all this scene in the green phosphorescent goo is all going to be a set as opposed to CGI. I mean, I don’t know about the goo, but that’s the other thing. They didn’t say it in the interview, but the cave is going to be a set, as a opposed to, you know, just sort of a CGI – blue screen type thing.

Kevin: I wonder if they’re putting it…

Eric: It’s going to be cool.

Kevin: In a real cave. I think that would be cool.

Eric: Or real actors to play the corpses.

Laura: That would be awesome.

Eric: That would be awesome. So that we get like a bunch of guys in scuba gear in, like, the set pics. And that would be awesome.

Laura: [laughs] All right, well that – pretty sharp eye there. Good job. Next one.

Voicemail: Slytherin’s Outcome

[Audio]: Hey there, MuggleCast. This is Delve, 26 in the UK. I tried to call in to the MuggleCast Live, but unfortunately, it seems I’ve been unsuccessful. Well, my question for you guys is how do you feel about how Slytherin comes out at the end of the book? Personally, I was hoping that they would come to maybe have a little bit of good in them, but I guess other than one or two things we see in the fight, she gave the idea that Slytherin equals evil. So, what do you guys think about that? Okay, bye!

Laura: I don’t think that she left it with the idea that the house itself was evil. I think she was talking about the people who had sort of given it that reputation.

Kevin: I think so, too. Yeah.

Laura: And I – yeah, I think that by the time Harry’s children go to Hogwarts, those people aren’t necessarily there anymore because, if you think about it, anybody who would ardently support Voldemort at that point would not be going to Hogwarts.

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: They would be going somewhere where they could learn dark magic. So…

Eric: You couldn’t support Lord Voldemort anymore. [laughs]

Laura: Well, yeah. Anybody – anybody who still wanted to operate under the very flawed theories that he had could not go to Hogwarts at that point.

Eric: Yeah.

Kevin: And you also – you also have to remember that the Gryffindors had somewhat of an advantage over the Slytherins when choosing to stay because of their involvement with Dumbledore’s Army and stuff like that. Like, all the other houses, I should say, had an advantage over Slytherins. And I think that she – it would be difficult to write in that kind of sub-story given that she would also have to convince people that the person was very willing to stay. You know what I mean?

Laura: Yeah, that’s a good point.

Kevin: Because if you think of that situation, if you’re not involved with anything regarding Voldemort and Dumbledore’s Army and stuff like that, why would you stay?

Laura: Yeah, that’s true.

Kevin: Your – your parents are telling you you have to get out of there.

Eric: Look, dude, you could just have just a regular liking for Hogwarts. I mean, I’m not saying you’re wrong. I’m just saying that there are probably other people…

Kevin: Yeah, but our expectations of a kid at that age are pretty high…

Eric: Oh, yeah. True.

Kevin: Because we’re basing them on Dumbledore’s Army and Harry Potter.

Eric: Well..

Kevin: But if you’re a normal kid, given the life or death situation that’s, you know, presenting, if your parents tell you to get out of there, you’re going to get out of there.

Eric: Well, maybe though, I mean there were – I mean, again Gryffindors, of course, because that’s the only people we’ve heard from, there were people sort of contesting their parents’ wishes and saying that, well, you know, isn’t – doesn’t the whole world really believe that Hogwarts is a safe place? But then again, even saying that, Hogwarts wasn’t really a safe place the entire seven years. Sirius Black got in and everything else happened, and yeah. So, I wouldn’t really – sorry. I refrain from comment.

Micah: I have a question, though, about the end scene talking about Slytherin. It’s something that always confused me and maybe it was the wording surrounding Slughorn. Because – and I’m sure somebody’s sent something in about this, but it almost seemed like – the way that the – whoever he was in the scene with – it seemed like he was fighting against, whether it was Bill or Charlie, I can’t remember, but the way that the scene was worded. And I didn’t know if that was supposed to mean that he was secretly a Death Eater or what the deal was. Do you guys know what I’m talking about or am I going to have to get the book?

Laura: I can’t say I do.

Kevin: I can’t say I do either.

Eric: I just think it’s so depressing really, not just how little of Hogwarts we saw, but Slughorn was kind of a good character in Book 6 and – I mean, not a good character – well, I – a thorough character and I mean, its very much established to be discarded in a certain way and that’s life. You’ve got to get on with it. But I – I just wish Slughorn was – I’m sorry, it was just too quick a departure, you know what I’m saying? Like, I didn’t – I didn’t misread that scene. I wasn’t quite sure what was going on with Slughorn, but I think – do you guys remember – was it – was it Slughorn who helped chase Snape out? Because wasn’t Snape – there was a scene with Snape and he ran into McGonagall and a few others and he sort of ran out and then they chase after him, firing off spells or something sort of like that. Do you guys remember that? Like, wasn’t…

Laura: Hang on. Let me check it really quick.

Eric: There’s a scene – yeah, there’s definitely a scene where he sort of met them, like, either the Heads of Houses or something and he met with them and then ran off.

Micah: Well, it always – something else that kind of was in the back of my mind was in the first chapter there’s a man that’s described similar to Slughorn at the table, but Jo never says exactly what his name is. Hold on, I’m looking to see here. But, I mean, it says later in this chapter that Voldemort was dueling with McGonagall, Slughorn, and Kingsley, but I don’t know. It was just really weird the way it was phrased.

Eric: I – I’d like to see, like, a play-by-play. I mean, just – just like, generally, like. I wonder if she sat there with like chess pieces or figurines – the action figures, of course! They’d be the action figures. She’d grab the action figures and play them out in the battle.

Micah: Oh, I see.

Eric: I was just thinking, you know, how does JKR plan this stuff?

Laura: Yeah, I don’t see Slughorn mentioned here.

Micah: Now I know why it was confusing. Because it says “Charlie was, overtaking Horace Slughorn…” but it was referring to the people running up the steps, not battling each other.

Eric: Oh!

Micah: So that was – because I had seen a couple rebuttals about that, but very poor wording.

Eric: So, overtaking. Yeah. Poor wording? Oooh.

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: That’s harsh. No, I agree with you. I agree with you. That’s – that’s – if I were to have misread that, I would have had something else to complain about.

Laura: [laughs] All right, are we ready for the next one?

Eric: Like I need that. Yep.

MuggleCast 115 Transcript (continued)

Voicemail: Pouch on Harry’s Neck

[Audio]: Hey, MuggleCast. I was just saying you keep referring to the thing that is around Harry’s neck on the cover of the U.S. edition of Deathly Hallows as the locket, but I think it’s actually the moleskin pouch that Hagrid gives him, because he doesn’t have the locket at that point. Thanks, bye!

Laura: Yeah, I think that that’s completely right. I’m positive, in fact, that it was the pouch. I don’t see why it would be anything else.

Voicemail: Clearing Snape’s Name

[Audio]: Hi, guys. This is Summer and I had a theory on how I think they’re going to find out that Snape is good or bad. Why can’t they look at Dumbledore’s Pensieve? If he figured that people would think he was evil after killing him then maybe he’d have left some kind of will or something like that, which just said, you know, “go look at the Pensieve.” And he could have, you know, he could left a memory of when he was discussing it with Snape. And wouldn’t that just be brilliant, like, I don’t know. And can you look at a dead person’s Pensieve? I don’t – I kind of want to hear you guys’ thoughts about that. So, anyway. Great show, I love listening whenever I’m driving to and from the home to work. So, anyways, ummm, pickles!

Eric: No, no. no. There’s no need to do an external thing about the will. Because Dumbledore, at the time of his death, wouldn’t know how things would turn out. Maybe Snape would actually li – well, I don’t want to say, “live,” but just in the end, I mean, Harry was obviously grateful enough to Snape to name his kid after him, in a way, that I’m pretty sure that Harry would have cleared Snape’s name…

Kevin: And I think…

Eric: …among the list of things to do when you’ve…

Kevin: I think she said that in an interview, as well.

Micah: Yeah. In that chat.

Kevin: Yeah.

Micah: She said something.

Kevin: Beyond, everyone knows what he did. So…

Micah: She felt that Harry would have let people know exactly what Snape did, or something along those lines. I don’t remember word for word what she said, but suffice it to say that everyone knows.

Laura: Yeah, I think it would turn out exactly like it did with Sirius, where Fudge admitted at the beginning of the sixth book that his name was cleared and it was out in the open now. So…

The Muggle World in Book 7

Eric: Turns out he was innocent, too, and yeah, turns out this and that. What was…? Oh yeah, the beginning of the sixth book had the Muggle…

Laura: The Prime Minister.

Eric: …you know, that great sort of Muggle thing. What did the Muggle world have to do with Book 7 as far as it affected it? Because she did a quite good portrayal, I mean a quite massive portrayal of the whole wizarding world being affected, but it just seemed like it never quite made it to the whole Muggle world.

Laura: Oh, I think it did.

Eric: Which is good.

Laura: I think that was the point of the first chapter of Half-Blood Prince. There were all these tragedies going on during that week that the Prime Minister was talking about.

Eric: Yeah, but people never knew. The whole wizarding world wasn’t exposed; otherwise there would be something about that in Book 7.

Laura: Well, no, they weren’t exposed, but it still did affect the Muggles.

Eric: I’m saying it’s… Oh, it affected them. I’m saying, though, how did Book 7 – how did any of the events in Book 7 when the whole wizarding world is being corrupt and they’re going after purebloods and Muggle-borns, they’re – it sort of wasn’t touched on the Muggle aspect of how many, you know – what are Muggles seeing? That there’s just obviously anything Muggles saw, would not have been, you know, covered up anymore as a result of the fallen Ministry. Or you know, everybody else was Death Eaters inhabited and running for their lives, and stuff like that. I just don’t remember reading anything about the Muggles themselves. Muggles, if that was at all important. You know? Those non-wizard folk.

Laura: Yeah. I don’t know. I mean, I think that they were definitely affected, but I think there was also a lot to cover in Book 7.

Voicemail: Was Quirrell a Horcrux?

[Audio]: Hey, MuggleCasters. This is Henry from New York. I was just calling to see what you guys think about my theory, that, I think Quirrell might be a –
Quirrell might have been a Horcrux, because Voldemort had latched onto the back of his head. So, he sort of – so, I guess he sort of incased his soul inside of Quirrell. So, Quirrell might have been maybe, like a temporary Horcrux. And, so I was just wondering what you guys
think about that theory. All right. Thanks. Bye.

Kevin: Uh, no.

Micah: No.

Eric: No, no, no.

Kevin: Because you have to remember that that piece of Voldemort’s soul was Voldemort, it was not a piece, as it were. It was what was remaining after he cut pieces off, so it was Voldemort and therefore…

Eric: [laughs] Right.

Kevin: …could not have been considered a Horcrux.

Laura: Right. Although, I do see where you’re coming from on that.

Kevin: Yeah, it makes sense.

Laura: Because it does have somewhat of a…

Eric: Like if a horcrux is a piece of soul.

Kevin: Yeah.

Laura: Voldemort seems to like to…

Eric: And then a piece…

Laura: …latch himself on to and into things. He’s a…

Eric: Very parasitic, very, you know, sort of – which is interesting, because isn’t the whole thing that Voldemort needs no one, and yet he exists in the book so much as parasites, yet he needs no friends, sort of operates alone. Yet, clearly, he doesn’t.

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: That’s brilliant.

Laura: Awesome.

Eric: That’s brilliant.

Voicemail: Crookshanks

[Audio]: Hey, guys, this is Kelsey from California. I was just wondering what you thought about the theory that the cat mentioned in Lily’s letter to Sirius is actually Crookshanks. It would time out relatively well, because the shop owner where Hermione bought Crookshanks said that he’d been there for a while. I just wanted to know what you guys thought. Thanks!

Laura: Ummm…

Eric: I like this but I don’t.

Laura: Yeah. It would be a really cool connection, but at the same time, I don’t know. I just feel like if that were the case Jo would have said something in the book.

Micah: Ask Jo.

Kevin: I don’t know if she would have.

Laura: And…

Micah: Laura.

Laura: Hmmm?

Micah: That’s your question for Jo. I mean…

[Laura laughs]

Micah: I think…

Kevin: We keep suggesting all these questions.

Micah: I’ll give support to it.

Eric: [laughs] Micah, Micah, Micah. Get your own ticket.

[Micah laughs]

Eric: Get a guy named Micah to give you a ticket…

Micah: No, no, no.

Eric: …Micah.

Micah: No, no, no.

Eric: Because there’s a guy somewhere named Micah who has a ticket.

Micah: Hold on, hold on. I’ll give evidence to support it. You look at how well in Prisoner of Azkaban Crookshanks gets along with Sirius. Could that be a relationship that was developed previously?

Laura: Oh yeah, that’s a good point.

Kevin: That’s true, too, yeah.

Micah: So.

Eric: Oh, wow.

Micah: There you go, give you a little…

Laura: But why wouldn’t Sirius have said anything? Like, “Oh, by the way, Harry, that’s your cat.”

Eric: Becaue, because he Oh, I know why. Because if he did, that would be, not necessarily a father figure for Harry, but it would have to go.

Laura: What? [laughs]

Eric: Because, see, Hedwig had to go. Under some kind of stupid logic, okay? I don’t want to call it stupid logic. Hedwig went. [laughs] Hedwig went with a big bang, and I’m entertaining myself here. But, yeah, if she introduced Crookshanks as a member of the…

Micah: Well…

Eric: …family.

Micah: If you want me to add more to it…

Eric: It would be on a death list.

Micah: …it would also explain why the cat always chased after Scabbers.

Laura: Awww yeah! Awww….

Eric: Well, I mean, that could have also been – I mean, that was already explained, though. That was already explained, though, about the, you know, that Kneazles – if Crookshanks is a Kneazle, well, as opposed to a regular household cat (and that was confirmed), that they just are very suspicious of animagus and not trustworthy of…

Micah: Hey, I’m just trying to support…

Eric: You know, Crookshanks could sense that Scabbers wasn’t…

Micah: …the voice mail here.

Laura: Yeah, but…

Micah: Give it a little bit of credibility.

Laura: Micah, he does have a good point.

Eric: And it does have credibility.

Laura: Because Sirius said that he got Crookshanks to trust him when he was in dog form. So I doubt – I mean, I’m sure he encouraged Crookshanks to try and kill Scabbers.

Eric: Yeah. Crookshanks doesn’t really like Ron, does he? Because doesn’t, at one point he just jumps on him?

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: Or something? Hurts his – oh yeah, well he jumps on his face to begin with. I don’t know what the Weasleys ever did to upset the Potters, but I’d like to read about that. Laura, that’s your question.

Laura: [laughs] Oh my gosh.

Kevin: You’re only going to have 15 questions, Laura.

Eric: Why does Crookshanks have it in for Ron?

Laura: Oh yeah, really. Okay. [laughs]

Eric: Yeah. Yeah. Choose wisely. Do a poll. We’ll do a poll.

Laura: Okay, sure.

Voicemail: Lack of Non-Verbal Spells

[Audio]: Hi, MuggleCast! I got a question for ya. I was just listening to the August 12th podcast live show and you guys started complaining about the absence of Inferi in ‘Deathly Hallows,’ and I have say, I agree with you, because I was expecting to see zombies all over the place, but the only Inferi we saw was the fake Dumbledore Inferi at Grimmauld Place. But more frustrating than that, to me, was the complete absence of non-verbal spells! You know? That’s a main plot point of Book 6, you know? And especially like the big Snape/Harry fight at the end of the book where he just keeps shutting him down. You know, “blocked again and again, Potter, until you learn to shut your mouth!” You know? Stuff like that. And there was nothing about non-verbal spells in ‘Deathly Hallows.’ Can you answer me why that is? Thanks.

Eric: [sighs] There’s just so much in her world. She just couldn’t keep up with it in the end. You roll a snowball, and it gets so big and so big and so big, but she’s doing – you do what you can. But yeah, you’re right. I would’ve liked to have seen non-verbal spells, but that’s the thing. Harry couldn’t really – Harry didn’t return for his seventh year at Hogwarts, so he couldn’t really learn them. You know what I’m saying? Like, we can assume that in – by the epilogue he knew them, or, you know, at least if he’d, you know, revolutionized the Ministry, he was pretty well off with spells. But, in the current context of the story, non-verbal spells didn’t really – like, I mean, let’s face it. The only thing youhad to do to destroy a Horcrux was, well, stick a – I don’t want to say stick a sword in it. But you think of how Hermione got the information on the Horcrux books. Come on, accio Horcrux books? [laughs] And they flew out of Dumbledore’s window? Come on! That’s not even a non-verbal spell! It’s just – I think that Jo gave up.

Laura: No, I don’t think so.

Eric: That – that’s the only answer. Accio Horcrux books? Come on.

Laura: No, I don’t think that’s it. I think that – I think part of this and, not to state the obvious here, but I think we and people who enjoy listening to shows and spending time on message boards look a lot further into these things than the average reader, and then what Jo would expect. Like – but do you remember…

Eric: I think they would be going, “Where’s the non-verbal spells?” Beause she’s set that up.

Laura: But do you remember whenever we all finished the book and we were ranting about how the U.S. book cover was extremely misleading because Harry and Voldemort both had their hands up in the air and we were like, “Yes! They’re doing wandless magic!”

Eric: [sighs] Wandless magic, yeah.

Laura: Yeah, that. It didn’t end up happening at all.

Eric: Yeah, you’re right. So, I guess the question is then – does verbal spells have anything – are non-verbal spells that important, or were they just another thing to teach during the lesson, such as Grindylows and D.A.D.A. and that sort of thing?

Laura: You also have to consider it might have been something Jo was throwing in to kind of lead us off the scent, because she didn’t necessarily want us to be able to guess right off the bat how Harry was going to kill Voldemort. So, by throwing the non-verbal spells on the table…

Eric: That’s true.

Laura: …that kind of gave us a theory to play with while she actually had this whole story of the Elder Wand to kind of throw at us and be like, “Ha! Guess what? You were wrong!”

Micah: Yeah! “Hey, Expelliarmus!” Book’s over.

Eric: Yeah, you’re probably right, it just – yeah.

[Laura and Eric laugh]

Eric: Cut to black. Just like Sopranos.

Ending of Book 7

Micah: That’s what I didn’t really get to talk to you guys much about this, but did you feel that that was a sufficient ending? I mean…

Laura: What? The Elder Wand?

Micah: No, no. The whole…

Eric: Well, he defeated Voldemort with Expelliarmus.

Kevin: I liked that.

Laura: I thought it was awesome.

Kevin: Because that was…

Eric: Wait. Let me guess, let me guess. You guys think – you guys think that it shows Harry’s innocence and purity?

Kevin: No…

Eric: …because he didn’t have to use the Death Curse, or…

Kevin: No, it was because he got to use his spell. Like that’s what – that – exactly.

Eric: His signature move.

Kevin: And he finished Voldemort with a spell that you’d think would be harmless, and yet…

Eric: So, it’s further insulting to Voldemort. I think Voldemort’s character took enough hits in this book being so stupid. Making these stupid…

Laura: [laughs] What?

Eric: …stupid mistakes.

Laura: The book was not stupid, Eric. It was brilliant.

Eric: No, no, no, no. Voldemort was.

Laura: Oh, okay.

Eric: I’m saying Voldemort…

Laura: I was going to be like, “Ummm, no.”

Eric: No, no, no. I said Voldemort. Andrew, please make sure that makes sense. I meant Voldemort is the one who makes all the stupid – Voldemort’s character took enough hits in this book by making so many stupid mistakes. Things just not following through with the whole – I mean, if you’re going to have a plan do it right, and Voldemort just didn’t. It was flawed in many, many, many, many, many, many, many ways. And it just occurred to me that I really like the term MuggleMail as opposed to Listener Rebuttals.

Laura: I’m glad, Eric.

Eric: That just hit me right now.

Laura: Yeah, I think a lot of it goes back to Voldemort being so powerful that he doesn’t consider anything simplistic. Like, Hermione was saying that Voldemort would never consider the power of a House Elf. Therefore, Dobby – or not Dobby – Kreacher was able to disapparate from the cave.

Eric: That’s a stretch. That alone is a stretch, I think. To say that Voldemort, oh you know, wouldn’t consider anything, you know, but maybe he doesn’t even learn from his mistakes. Some people just don’t. But overall, the majority of mistakes and just not – I mean, it’s one thing not to know anything, but I thought that Voldemort made a lot of just stupid character misjudgments that I wouldn’t have particularly expected from him given the set up in Book 6. You know, I was always – he was a well studied student. You know, he’s either intelligent or not. He found the Chamber of Secrets, which no one had done, even teachers, you know, searching and searching and searching. And, you know, obviously he was a Parseltongue, so that assisted him. He could walk around the walls saying, “Open, open, open,” in Parseltongue until something happened. Yeah, that could be a benefit, but Tom Riddle was either one of the most brilliant minds of his age, or he wasn’t. You know, Jo can’t seem to…

Kevin: Yeah, but…

Laura: Right but…

Eric: …Jo can’t seem to decide.

Kevin: Yeah, but just…

Eric: But then again tainted with a half soul.

Kevin: Just because you’re intelligent does not mean you’re ignorant. And…

Eric: You’re allowed to make mistakes. And Voldemort can be ignorant. But he was too ignorant, in my opinion.

Kevin: I don’t think so. He was blinded by his power.

Laura: Yeah.

Kevin: He was fully ignorant.

Laura: It’s like you think about people who…

Eric: That’s too easy to say though.

Laura: …are so intelligent they lack common sense, because they – it’s true. There are people like that. And if you remember in the first book, whenever Harry and Hermione were in Snape’s potion chamber before they got to the stone, Hermione said some of the greatest wizards out there haven’t got an ounce of logic and they would be stuck in here forever.

Eric: And that’s a good quote. Okay, so, let me ask the question then without arguing with any fundamental principles – which is against the law of philosophy – I have a philosophy course too, by the way. I love it. But do you guys think that you would’ve preferred if Voldemort were ignorant as he was in Book 7? I call him stupid or ignorant and both, which he was, or would you have preferred if Voldemort were sort of the ultimate villain in that he had thought of everything. Would you have preferred a really truly, sort of intellectual match against, you know, match of minds – duel of intelligent powers as opposed to what I would call cop outs, only much more fairly – this sort of luck or sort of weaning out of situations that Harry
did throughout the whole book series. You know, and, “Oh! I’m going to count on Voldemort’s forgetting this because I only know Expelliarmus!”

Laura: But Harry didn’t count on Voldemort forgetting.

Eric: Wouldn’t you…

Laura: He was terrified throughout the whole book.

Eric: Maybe he was terrified! Good for him. But Voldemort still did forget a lot of stuff, or was very ignorant and that allowed to his downfall. I think it would’ve been much…

Kevin: But that’s the whole point of the story.

Eric: The point of the story is that, well, I – that Voldemort’s not a compelling villain?

Kevin: That…that…

Eric: I mean he killed so many people.

Kevin: No, that he was compelling because he was so powerful and he could’ve easily won and yet he decided he was so ignorant about his power that he lost.

Comparison with Hitler

Eric: I suppose I’m trying to figure out, again, why the whole Hitler allegory was… I mean, you know, she sort of said – there was a line by Dumbledore in Book 6 about Dumbledore, you know, sort of, you know – “dictators everywhere create their own enemies” sort of thing and they always fear for their lives. And it was just – I’m just trying to think where she was reaching, because I think – I mean, Hitler wasn’t necessarily a – intelligent, in a way. I mean, I don’t want to say that because I haven’t studied the period enough, but I’m saying I just think it would’ve been – I would probably go onto a book where I want to read sort of a really compelling villain, like arch nemesis, you know, sort of, really – and not have the hero – you know, have the hero really have to duel it out. I know it took it out of Harry, I just – I’m trying to think why I’m not so sympathetic about it.

Micah: I thought – and yeah, there’s definitely comparisons with Voldemort. I thought Grindelwald was more of a comparison to Hitler, in my opinion, because you look at his symbol…

Eric: The Master Race.

Micah: …you look at his, you know, similar mentality to Voldemort in the treating of certain types of witches and wizards, and then also where he is at the end of the story. You know, he’s in that prison, which has a very similar name. I forget the name of it, but it has a very similar name to a concentration camp that – from World War II.

Eric: Yeah, that’s something to do with Dakau

Micah: So I always drew more of a comparison between Grindelwald and Hitler, as opposed to Voldemort, but there – I think you could go with either of them.

Laura: Yeah, I remember Jo – someone did ask her that in an interview a few years ago, and I don’t remember specifically what she said, but she did say that she wasn’t basing Voldemort on anyone in particular, like Hitler. I’m sure that there was definitely some influence there, but I don’t think that she was trying to base any of these bad guys in particular on the story of Hitler or Mussolini or any of these other terrible, terrible men.

Micah: And Grindelwald was a little more timely to the World War II time of events.

Laura: Well yeah, 1945.

Eric: Well, that was the whole thing. People really thought, you know, in the first book, when she said that in the wizard card, people were like, “You know what? That’s just the World War II, Jo’s tie-in, you know, to the whole World War II thing.” And, turned out – I mean, I guess we didn’t – we found out what we needed to about Grindelwald. And Krum, I mean, obviously was compelling because Krum was so mad at Xenophilius Lovegood, because he’s like, you know, “Grindelwald graffitied that at my school and it’s a horrible symbol, and I’m going to go beat Xeno, that ‘X’ guy, up,” you know, sort of thing. So, I mean, Grindelwald was obviously pretty tough and pretty scary, and Dumbledore almost followed him, and that was, you know – I mean, that’s Dumbledore’s moment. So…

Micah: Yeah, he’s in the prison here called Nurmengard. I mean, thatreminds me of Nuremberg…

Laura: Yeah.

Micah: …you know? So I think that’s where she was kind of going with that, but I’ll leave it alone because – I don’t know. [sighs]

Eric: Yeah. I mean, that’s just too many questions to ask J.K.R. You’re right, we do need that question.

Laura: I’ll ask her about that, too. Okay, you guys want me to do that?

Eric: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, don’t. Laura, I found the solution: Take all the questions. Once the transcript is out – do we still do transcripts,

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Once the transcript’s out, just do it in one really long sentence. [laughs] And just have her sit there and just do it in one really long sentence. That’d be awesome.

Laura: Wow.

Eric: They won’t “chose” it. They won’t choose it because it’ll be pre-screened, but you don’t actually have to ask what’s pre-screened. Oh, I don’t want to give the ideas, but, yeah.

Laura: Wow, somehow…

Eric: Just one run-on question.

Laura: Somehow we got from nonverbal spells to correlations between World II Two and Grindelwald. We need to make a flow chart…

[Micah laughs]

Laura: …so we can understand how we end up arriving at these conclusions. [laughs]

Eric: How do we get from that to that? I think it would have largely…

Kevin: So true.

Eric: …something to do with me, unfortunately. But I don’t know.

Laura: Probably, but it’s not a bad thing. It’s awesome.

Eric: Yeah.

Laura: All right, unless anybody has anything else to say…

Eric: Oh, no, it’s cool.

Laura: Yes? No?

Eric: For this time, for this time and this place?

Laura: Okay, I’m going to take that as a no.

Chicken Soup for the MuggleCast Soul

Laura: We are moving on to Chicken Soup. This one comes from Chelsea, and she lives in Snellville, Georgia, which is actually not far from where I used to live. She says:

Hi, MuggleCast! I just wanted to share a Chicken Soup with you guys. November of 2005, my uncle and godfather were diagnosed with Multiple Myeloma, a cancer that attacks the blood marrow. My uncle and his wife and daughter live 45 minutes away in Alpharetta. In the past 20 months as he got sicker and sicker we would make the long drive down the interstate to go visit with him. He went through three rounds of chemo and a stem cell transplant, both unsuccessful. On July 10th, he passed away. It was somewhat of a relief to our whole family that he was no longer in pain. But I just thought that I’d let you guys know that through the dozens of car rides to Alpharetta, I found solace in listening to MuggleCast. Hearing you guys joke around and debate theories kept my mind off of my uncle and I thank you for that.

Wow! Well, I – you know, I just can’t get it across enough that I really love that the show is able to make people laugh, and make them happy during hard times in their lives.

Micah: Yeah.

Laura: It really makes me happy to hear that.

Eric: We help people. We help people.

Micah: Yeah. Like, the pause that we had after you read that, it wasn’t because, you know – we just don’t know what to say when we hear those types of stories, that’s what it is, I think.

Laura: Yeah, it’s – yeah.

Eric: But they’re good. I mean, they really are. They’re compelling and empowering stories.

Laura: Yeah, and on that note – I kind of wish that we had a British Joke.

Eric: Yeah. Can we recycle one?

Laura: Awww.

Eric: Andrew? Because I bet you’re missing Jamie already, so can you please just cut in sort of…

Laura: Did you just call me Andrew?

Eric: No, I’m talking to Andrew. I…

Laura: Okay, I was like…

Eric: No, no, no, I’m actually talking to Andrew.

Kevin: No, he’s talking to Andrew.

Laura: Why would you do that to me? [laughs]

Eric: Andrew, can you cut in a previous joke? Note to editor…

[Show close music]

Eric: Beep beep beep.

Micah: That’s pretty impressive. You’re talking to Andrew, considering…

[Laura laughs]

Micah: …he’s flying across the Atlantic right now.

Laura: I do believe that wraps up this week’s show. As always, you have several options when it comes to contacting us.

Kevin: Oh my god.

Laura: If you live in the U.S…

Eric: Dial 1-218-20…

Laura: [laughs] …you can give us a call…

Eric: …MAGIC. [laughs]

Laura: Hey!

Eric: Okay…

Laura: Stop.

Eric: …didn’t want to encroach on approaching territory there, okay. Sorry.

Laura: [laughs] If you’re living in the U.K., phone in at
020-8144-0677, or if you’re from Down Under you can call us at 02-8003-5668. You can also Skype the username MuggleCast and leave us a voicemail. Please try to keep your message under a minute and eliminate as much background noise as humanly possible. Andrew can’t stress that enough. If you’d like to e-mail any of us individually, you can use our handy feedback form at MuggleCast.com or just e-mail each of us at our
first name at staff dot mugglenet dot com. Don’t forget about the community outlets. Help me out, guys. It’s MySpace, Facebook

Eric: Frappr

Laura: YouTube, Frappr, Last.FM, is that it?

Eric: Facebook, yeah.

Laura: Yeah. Oh, and…

Kevin: I think so.

Laura: Digg the show at Digg.com.

Eric: Yes, Digg us up. rate us at Yahoo! Podcasts, and I think that’s it, but if for any reason contacting us electronically isn’t your thing, you can also send parcel mail the to the MuggleCast PO Box. That’s:

PO Box 3151

Cumming, Georgia

I’m Laura Thompson.

Eric: I’m Eric Scull.

Kevin: I’m Kevin Steck.

Micah: And I’m Micah Tannenbaum.

Laura: We will see you guys next week. Bye bye.

Micah: Bye.


Eric: Yup, so, anyway. I was in the middle of telling a story.

Laura: I’m sor – you were talking about the time change, Eric!

Kevin: Yeah.

Eric: It was a funny story!

[Laura laughs]

Eric: It was a funny story! I had a good story to tell about how I missed worked because – and I was at the kabob place yesterday and the guy was like, “Oh, you know, the sunset’s going to start late and there’s going to be a time change,” but I have no radio in my car and no cable TV, so I couldn’t possibly know, and I was 40 minutes late to work.

Kevin: Relevance to Harry Potter? Zero.

Eric: Oh, relevance to Harry Potter? Well, I went to work,then, and I ended up reading about reviews that I had written on the first Harry Potter books because we’re doing product knowledge now at Borders.


Episode 115: Laura’s Questions

  • Micah sees Order of the Phoenix…finally!
  • Dan and David Yates talk Half-Blood Prince.
  • Eric is back and has info on MuggleCast Down Under.
  • Kevin returns as well after battling some technical issues (typical).
  • Laura has the golden ticket…which sparks a big book tour discussion.
  • One listener clears up that she is not in fact Mrs. Sims.
  • Bill Nighy as Rufus Scrimgeour?
  • Could Harry have survived another Killing Curse in the final battle?
  • What was the difference between the beings in the graveyard in Goblet of Fire and the ones that appeared from the Resurrection Stone in Deathly Hallows?
  • We take some more Muggle Mail in response to our book parallel convo last week.
  • Voicemails return!
  • Chicken Soup.

Download Now

Running time: 1:35:43, 43.9 MB

Transcript 114

MuggleCast 114 Transcript

Show Intro

[Intro music begins]

Mason: Hey, Laura! Do you want to know about a good deal?

Laura: Why, yes, Mason. I would love to!

Mason: Good, because I have a deal with your name on it.

Laura: Tell me more!

Mason: Well, in that case, GoDaddy.com is offering the best deals of a lifetime. For only $3.59 a month for a year, you can get GoDaddy.com’s economy package.

Laura: Amazing! What do I get with the economy package?

Mason: You get 250 gigs of bandwidth, five gigs of storage, and up to 500 e-mail accounts. You can get your website up and running.

Laura: I can!?

Mason: Yeah. When you check out, enter code Muggle – that’s M-U-G-G-L-E – and save 10 percent on any order.

Laura: Can you spell that again?

Mason: Yeah, I can. That’s M-U-G-G-L-E.

Laura: Wow! Do any restrictions apply?

Mason: Some restrictions apply, see site for details. Get your piece of the Internet at GoDaddy…

Laura: Dot com.

Andrew: Today’s MuggleNet podcast is brought to you by Borders. In May, thousands of Harry Potter fans descended upon New Orleans for the Phoenix Rising Conference. Borders was there to take in the sites and share a lively discussion of the series
that has bewitched the world with some of Harry’s most dedicated fans. Listen in and watch the action yourself. Check out the Phoenix Rising Borders Book Club discussion at BordersMedia.com/HarryPotter, or click on the Borders banner at the top of the MuggleNet page.

[Show music begins playing]

Micah: Because somebody still hasn’t seen Order of the Phoenix, this is MuggleCast Episode 114 for September 24th, 2007.

[Show music continues]

Jamie: Whoa! Welcome to MuggleCast Episode 1-1-4. We’ve got a great show lined up for you today. Excellent news, excellent theories, excellent rebuttals, and a great main discussion. I’m Andrew Sims.

Laura: I’m Laura Thompson.

Jamie: I’m Jamie Lawrence.

Micah: And I’m Micah Tannenbaum.

[Show music continues]

Jamie: Now, first of all, we go over to Micah for this week’s top Harry Potter news stories. Micah?


Micah: Okay, thanks, Jamie. Emma Watson, the actress who plays Hermione Granger, has updated the blog on her official site informing fans that she finished filming Ballet Shoes. She says, “I am really nervous to see the results, but mostly
very, very excited.”

It has been confirmed by Warner Bros. that the fifth Harry Potter movie DVD will be released in Britain on November 12th and in the U.S. on December 11th. Some quick facts: the single disc, both full-screen and wide-screen, will be priced at $28.98,
the dual-disc at $34.99, and the HD and Blu-Ray disc at $35.99. The dual-disc set will include a sneak peek at Half-Blood Prince. Additional seventeen minutes of Order of the Phoenix footage will be included on all the DVDs, and there
will be a limited edition gift set to include more than three hours of all new content from the past Harry Potter films.

From Order of the Phoenix to Half-Blood Prince, Jim Broadbent has confirmed that he will be playing the role of Professor Horace Slughorn. Broadbent described his new role in an interview with Dark Horizons saying, “He’s a
retired teacher of magic who’s drawn back out of retirement, because he’s got some secrets they need in the battle against the Death Eaters. And he’s quite star struck as a teacher. And he’s drawn back into the fold, because he likes to notch up celebrity students, and he’s drawn back by Harry.”
Broadbent would be recognizable to most Harry Potter fans for his role as Professor Kirke in The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.

Today, the MTV News blog had an online interview with Harry Potter actor Dan Radcliffe, who gave MTV the scoop on filming the cave and Inferi scenes. He said, “I’m really looking forward to filming the cave and all the stuff in there, with the
lake and the Inferi.”
Radcliffe enthused, “Me and Michael Gambon in a rowboat for a few days. It’s going to be amazing.” Dan also reveals that the cave will be filmed on a real set, rather than being inserted digitally.

In a new audio interview that will leave diehard fans very happy, Half-Blood Prince director David Yates talks about how he understands the fans’ connection with each film. With that in mind, he says he’s going to make Half-Blood Prince a very character-driven film with a coming of age story, thanks in part to screenwriter Steve Kloves’s fun draft. Filming began for Half-Blood Prince on September 17th and the sixth Potter film is due out November 18, 2008.

New York, New Orleans and Los Angeles were not enough! J.K. Rowling will make an appearance on the morning of October 23rd at the Winter Garden Theatre in downtown Toronto. It’s an all ages event hosted by Toronto’s International Festival of Authors and Rowling’s Canadian publisher, Vancouver-based Raincoast Books. Ms. Rowling will read from Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, entertain questions from fans, and autograph complimentary copies of the book. Until September the 27th, Canadian fans can visit Raincoast’s website and enter for the drawing that awards ten pairs of tickets every day. Tickets
are also being given out to Canadian libraries and the country’s 79 public and Catholic school boards. That’s all the news for this September 24th, 2007 edition of MuggleCast. Back to the show.

Andrew is Absent

Jamie: All right, thank you, Micah.

Micah: Thanks.

Jamie: How is everyone today?

Laura: Whoa.

Jamie: Whoa!

Micah: What was that “whoa” for?

Laura: Yeah, wow, I’m doing well. How are you guys? Andrew, you sound a little funny.

Jamie: [imitating Andrew] Well, you know, it’s – I’ve got a bit of a cold, and my audio is a bit messed up. But everything is good! [speaking as himself] Oh, that’s really great, Andrew! I’m really glad that your audio is messed up. Excellent. Micah, how are you?

Micah: I’m doing great.

Jamie: Good. Now we have some bad news. Andrew, unfortunately, has to leave now to go and do some stuff. He’s moved on to pastures new. So he can’t be with us today. How does everyone feel about that? Sad? Very, very sad, I know?

Laura: Eh, whatever. Go away, Andrew.

Jamie: Yeah, Andrew, go away! You’ve abandoned us – abandoned us – abandoned us…

Micah: Wow, Laura, geez.

News Discussion: Ballet Shoes

Jamie: …all the way. But we’re going to start off with a bit of news discussion to hopefully clear the air after Andrew leaving. So, Emma, as Micah has just told us, has just finished filming Ballet Shoes. Laura, you’re the resident
personal expert on Ballet Shoes

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: …so do you think you could give us a few facts about it?

Laura: If you could call it that.

[Jamie laughs]

Laura: I know that – I can’t say that I know a whole lot about it, but I know it’s based on a book, I believe. We were talking about how, if I get this wrong, like five hundred of you are going to e-mail, so. But…

[Jamie and Laura laugh]

Laura: …it’s based on a book, and I’m pretty sure it’s a BBC production. And as far as I know, apparently she dyed her hair blonde for it. That’s what I read on her site.

Jamie: Now, is she a natural blonde? Because I could have sworn…

Laura: I don’t think so.

Jamie: …I heard, a few years ago that Emma Watson is a natural blonde. Is that completely wrong?

Laura: I don’t – I mean…

Micah: Ask Ben.

Laura: I hate to turn this into a girly show, scrutinizing people’s hair color, but I mean…

Jamie: No, that’s fine. [laughs]

Laura: Just judging from – I don’t know. I wouldn’t say that it’s natural, but I don’t know for sure.

Jamie: How can you tell? How can you tell?

Laura: Because I’m a girl, and I dye my hair, and I can just tell.

Jamie: But…

Laura: Like, you can see roots and stuff.

Jamie: Really? Yeah, but surely, if it’s done for the movies then it could be that they’ve just changed a few things for that, but it isn’t actually dyed. Or I mean…

Laura: It could be. I mean, I don’t know, personally. I’ve never asked Emma if she dyes her hair.

Jamie: Well, Laura…

Laura: But I should have.

Jamie: …you need to come here more prepared! I mean, come on now.

Laura: I should have. I should have just gone up to her in L.A. and been like, “Hey, do you dye your hair? We really need to know. It’s a pressing question.”

Jamie: Yes. That was a poor effort on your behalf. But what did you guys think about Emma branching out after Harry Potter?

Laura: I think it’s really good for her, because – I mean, I don’t really know what kind of role she’s playing in Ballet Shoes, but if you consider the role that she’s playing as Hermione, it’s something that you could become slightly type-cast
as, you know? The know-it-all and, you know, the only girl. That type of thing.

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: So, I think it’s good. I know that she’s playing an orphan in Ballet Shoes, so I’m assuming that she’s going to be with a lot of other girls.

Micah: Oh, there’s a stretch from Harry Potter.

Laura: Okay, but she’s not the orphan, Micah!

[Jamie laughs]

Micah: Fair point, fair point.

Jamie: Well, Dan’s doing it as well in The December Boys.

Laura: Doesn’t he play an orphan there as well?

Jamie: He does, yeah.

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: It’s the “in” thing at the moment, I guess.

Laura: Yeah, really.

Jamie: But I think it’s good that she’s branching out as well. It would be so easy for her, Rupert, and Dan to be type-cast as Harry Potter people forever. And, I mean, we can’t
tell now if they’re going to be or not, but it’s good that they’re starting doing new things. I think, anyway.

Laura: Yeah, I agree.

Micah Hasn’t Seen Order of the Phoenix

Jamie: Micah, what about the Order of the Phoenix DVD?

Micah: The Order of the Phoenix DVD comes out on November the 12th over there in England. So are you going to be online waiting for it, Jamie?

Jamie: No, because it doesn’t normally come to my computer. [laughs] I’ll be waiting by the door for it, though, maybe.

Micah: Oh. Okay. But are you going to ship a copy over to me since I have not seen Order of the Phoenix yet? And I have to get it over…

Jamie: You haven’t seen it?

Laura: You what?!

Micah: No. [laughs]

Jamie: What’s wrong with you?

Laura: You haven’t – what?

Jamie: You call yourself a Harry Potter fan, Micah. Get out now. Let’s get Andrew back, Laura.

Laura: No, wait. Wait a second. How have you not seen Order of the Phoenix?

Micah: I haven’t seen Order of the Phoenix.

Jamie: Are you kidding? Is this a big joke?

Laura: You didn’t go to your local movie theater to see it?

Micah: [laughs] No, I’m not joking.

Laura: Oh my God, you are such a slacker. Where is Andrew? Come on. Get out, Micah.

Jamie: Micah, that is just – I think we should stop the show, this show, this week in like a moment of just desperation at the fact that you have not seen Movie 5. How long has it been now?

Laura: It’s been out since July.

Jamie: Micah, what do you have to say? [pause] Not much.

[Laura and Micah laugh]

Micah: Send me the DVD when it comes out.

Jamie: But doesn’t it come out there as well? How many days afterwards does it come out there?

Micah: About a month.

Jamie: A month?

Micah: It comes out on December 11th.

Jamie: Really? That is pretty poor.

Micah: Yeah.

Laura: Yeah.

News Discussion: Order of the Phoenix DVD

Jamie: I’m not too excited about the DVD, though. I like watching it, obviously, but the special features have never ever done it for me.

Laura: Yeah, we kind of talked about this last week, too…

Jamie: We did, yeah.

Laura: …just about how the special features are always kind of kid-ish, and they’re not really geared towards adults, really. They’re not – not even towards twelve year-olds, I would say.

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: They’re really geared toward much younger children.

Jamie: Well, the scenes are always good, the deleted scenes, and some interviews. But I’ve just always found them a bit boring, personally.

Laura: Yeah. Some – I personally like watching the interviews of the, you know, the directors and the producers and everything more so than the cast…

Jamie: I agree.

Laura: …because it seems like the cast always says the same
thing over and over. Like, “Everybody’s changing and the movies are getting darker…”

Jamie: Yeah, I know.

Laura: “…and blah, blah, blah.”

Jamie: And, “My character – I think my character has grown and developed a lot in this film. Obviously, she’s had to – she’s had to see completely different things happen to her friends. She’s had to move along in the, you know, maturity levels. But I think it’s really helped her.” It is the same every time, isn’t it?

Laura: Yeah. It really is.

Jamie: You’ve got to say that.

Laura: I mean, not that I’m putting them down for saying that, because…

Jamie: I am.

Laura: …there’s really not much else you can say. Like there comes a point where they just keep asking the same question over and over…

Jamie: Yeah, it is true.

Laura: …and you kind of come up with a generic response, so I don’t hold them at fault for that at all.

Jamie: But I’ve found that’s always, sort of, a side effect of having people interview Harry Potter actors who are just, like, the mainstream media. So people who aren’t Harry Potter related – who don’t know the films well enough to ask specific questions. So they have to ask – you know – movie questions like, “How do you think your character has developed from the first film to this?” Or, “What’s the most important thing you’ve done to prepare yourself for this role?” You know, stuff that isn’t specific to Harry Potter.

Laura: Yeah.

News Discussion: Jim Broadbent Cast as Horace Slughorn

Jamie: But I should make – a piece of very, very exciting news – well, for me personally, anyways, and I hope for everyone else – Jim Broadbent has just been cast as Horace Slughorn. Now, I know Jim Broadband – Jim Broadband! [laughs] That’s an interesting thing, Jim Broadband. He is personally an
extremely fast Internet connection. If you’re ever lost and you’ve got your laptop…

[Laura and Micah laugh]

Jamie: …and you see Jim Broadband – if you just plug it into, like, his leg or something, you will get download speeds that you have never experienced before. But we should try that.

Laura: We should send him to Kevin.

Jamie: Yes, we should, we should! Kevin’s already over it. If anyone’s wondering why he isn’t not on the show, was terrible…

Laura: Or, like, the past fifty shows.

Jamie: Yeah, the last fifty shows.

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: His audio is terrible. What happens is, you’ll speak to him and he’ll say something, but instead of just hearing it once you’ll hear it over and over again, like a rapper. I think we found the secret to every single rapper’s success: they just use Kevin’s audio and then it sounds amazing. But not too good for a Harry Potter podcast. So that’s why Kevin isn’t on.

Laura: No.

Jamie: Jim Broadbent. I finally got it right. If anyone has ever seen “Only Fools and Horses,” there was an episode where Del Boy has an arch-rival called Slater, Inspector Slater. He’s a police chief, and Jim Broadbent plays him in that. He’s absolutely awesome. Other roles he has done are Hot Fuzz -very, very funny – Chronicles of Narnia, Bridget Jones’s, Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull – not out yet, still filming. What else has he done? Vanity Fair, Around the World in 80 Days Nicholas Nickleby. He’s obviously a pretty, you know…

Laura: Seasoned actor.

Jamie: …seasoned actor. You know – exactly. And, I mean, I’ve spoken to a few people, and they seem extremely excited. What do you guys think? He looks the part, definitely.

Laura: Yeah, I think he does. I can’t that say I know too much about him as an actor. I mean, I’ve seen Narnia, obviously, but I can’t say that I’ve really seen any of the other movies you mentioned.

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: But just from the previous history of the adult actors cast in these films, I can’t say that they’ve ever picked somebody who was not perfect.

Jamie: They haven’t, no.

Laura: Ev – I mean, of all of the – Umbridge, Hagrid…

Micah: Michael Gambon.

Laura: …McGonagall – Michael Gambon is awesome, Micah!

Jamie: He is. Yes, he is.

Laura: Get out.

Jamie: Well, of course, Micah wouldn’t know, would he, considering he hasn’t even seen the film.

Laura: Oh yeah, you haven’t seen the fifth movie, Micah.

Micah: [laughs] I’ve seen the other ones he’s been in.

Jamie: Micah – Micah, quick quiz: how many books are there in the Harry Potter series? Do you know? Or…

Laura: Have you missed the last one?

Micah: Seven maybe? I don’t know.

Jamie: Good guess. Good guess, Micah. Very good guess.

Micah: Good guess?

Jamie: Excellent. But yeah, I think he’s going to be absolutely awesome. And – because he’s a very complicated character, Slughorn, and I think it’s going to take some work. I’d be surprised if Broadbent doesn’t read the books before he plays the role, because it is a – it is a kind of role that, you know…

Laura: You kind of do need to read the books.

Jamie: …you need the back story to develop the character…

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: …you know what I mean?

Laura: Yeah, I kind of wonder how much they are going to develop him. Are they really going to go into him, you know, running from the Death Eaters, or hiding from them? Are they – I just wonder how much back story we’re going to get on that.

Jamie: I agree.

Laura: Yeah, I mean…

Jamie: It’s going to be interesting to see how he does.

Micah: Well, I mean…

Laura: Although I think a lot of what they leave in the seventh film now is going to be based on how the series came out. Like, for instance, they’ve kind of screwed themselves now because they left Lily out of the entire “Snape’s Worst Memory” scene in Order of the Phoenix

Jamie: Yes.

Laura: …and then it actually has a huge significance, so I think that they better pay a lot more attention now.

News Discussion: Half-Blood Prince Filming Has Begun

Jamie: I hope they do. I hope they do. Something very, very exciting: Half Blood Prince filming has begun. A bit excited about that?

Laura: Of course. Isn’t that supposed to be November of 2008?

Jamie: Yeah, that is quite a long time. Is that normal for Harry Potter films? How long is the…

Laura: Yeah, it is! Because they switch off. Like one will come out in the summer and then the other one will come out in the fall of the following year.

Jamie: Oh. Oh yeah, of course they do. It is a long time, though. But it’s a long book as well.

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: So I wonder how much they’re going to take out and how much they’re going to leave in.

Laura: It’s such a complicated book. You know, I think about Books 6 and 7. It’s Book 7 particularly that I’m worried about with all the information we get. But Book 6, I really wonder how much of, like, the Harry and Dumbledore dynamic they’re actually going to focus on.

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: Because that’s so important…

Jamie: It is.

Laura: …and if they don’t give it enough attention, it’s not going to work.

Jamie: Exactly. And Book – sorry, Movie 7 – is then going to not have the back story to back up Harry’s anger at Dumbledore, and, you know…

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: …his anger at Snape and all that. So, I agree with you. Book 6 is like a springboard for Book 7, and if they don’t do it properly, it’s worrying.

Laura: Yeah.

Micah: Well, did you guys think at all that they could start taking elements of Book 7 and start putting it in Movie 6, just so they don’t have to…

Jamie: Condense a huge book? Yeah.

Micah: …go all out in Movie 7?

Jamie: If they can work it, but that’s pretty risky. I mean, if they do that badly then – and things that don’t match up…

Laura: Yeah. What do you mean by elements? Like actual happenings or just little tidbits, like facts and stuff that we find out in Book 7 that would make more sense in a…

Micah: Yeah, sort of starting to drop facts and things like that. Not taking actual events that took place in Book 7, but maybe start giving us more information in…

Laura: Like about Horcruxes?

Micah: Yeah.

Jamie: Maybe, but I mean, they set that up, kind of, with Voldemort and his – actually, was that line in the movies when he’s like, “I’ve gone further along the path of immortality than any other person,” or was that not in the movies?

Laura: Oh gosh, I don’t think it was.

Jamie: I guess they haven’t…

Laura: I was just thinking about it. Oh my gosh. Yeah, see, the thing is, when – I remember when I first read Book 6, a lot of people were complaining about how Horcruxes weren’t set up. They were just going on about how they weren’t, and it’s like, you go back through the books, and they actually were.

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: It was just so subtle. She just did it…

Jamie: Brilliantly done, yeah.

Laura: …so perfectly. Oh my God. But …

Jamie: But then…

Laura: I don’t know how they’re going to do that in the movies. It’s going to kind of – it seems like they’re going to kind of come out of nowhere. It’s going to be kind of like…

Jamie: Well, Movie 2 kind of did it with the – when Harry stabbed the diary, it looked like Riddle was, you know – a part of him was dying, kind of.

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: Or perhaps we can just say that now because we know what it was about, but it looks like that now with hindsight. I don’t know if…

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: …it really is like that.

Laura: She just did that so well, because when you’re reading that book at the time, you think that he’s just destroying like – you don’t think of it as a part of Riddle. You think that he’s just destroying something that he’s using to infiltrate Hogwarts, you know?

Jamie: Precisely, yeah.

Laura: Like, you don’t think of it as like an extension of his soul, which is really awesome. Oh my gosh.

Jamie: Oh wait.

Laura: I just get excited thinking about it.

Jamie: I’ve just completely contradicted myself. I think I just said that yes, you do see it as an extension of the soul, but then I’ve just agreed with you. I don’t know. I don’t know, because when you watch it, it looks like he is dying. You know, he comes out, and he screams, and it looks like a part of him is dying. I don’t know if we didn’t know about Horcruxes, perhaps we just think that it’s because, you know, it’s a memory, and the memory’s dying, but…

Laura: Yeah, see, that’s what she excused it as in the book.

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: He just called him – what was – and Riddle even called himself a memory.

Jamie: He did. Yeah, yeah.

Laura: So, oh my gosh. It’s so cool.

Jamie: But how can you plan seven books out like that?

Laura: Oh my God. She is amazing. That’s how she does it.

Announcement: The Live Show

Jamie: That is pretty impressive. That is very, very impressive. Okay, let’s move on to some announcements. First of all, thank you to everyone who tuned in for the live show. It was an experiment, a huge experiment. We think it went pretty well with a few minor slip-ups. The audio dropped a bit, and a few people have been complaining that our voices sound like chipmunks on the released one. Have you guys heard that? Because I haven’t checked it yet.

Laura: I haven’t heard it yet, but apparently I sound hilarious, from what I’ve heard.

Jamie: Really?

Laura: Yeah, apparently – apparently you guys all sound like, I don’t know, maybe you’re like alto chipmunks…

Jamie: Oh, right. [laughs]

Laura: …and apparently I’m a second soprano chipmunk.

Jamie: Oh, really?

Laura: So, yeah, that’s what I’ve heard, so it should be interesting to listen to.

Jamie: Well, I’m going to have to listen to that. That actually sounds exciting.

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: Not an excuse to complain. We have a piece of feedback from – they didn’t leave their name, but it’s about the live show. They say:

“Okay, I know I’ve been e-mailing a lot of feedback lately, but I really have to tell you how happy I am that you released the rest of the live podcast, and how amazed I am at the quality of everything.”

Apart from the chipmunk voices, I’m sure.

“It’s moving at the perfect pace, the sound quality is great, even though your voices are a little higher than usual, and your choice of conversation is just, again, perfect. This is like
Christmas or something.”

And this is where I think this person might just come from New Jersey, because they say:

“Go Andrew. You have been brilliant thus far, and I freaking love you. I’ve listened to MC since you released the first episode, and I am really very impressed right now. I love this, and I love you guys. Well done. Jessie.”

So that’s very nice.

Micah: Oh thanks, Mrs. Sims, for sending that in.

Jamie: Yes, thank you very much, Mrs. Sims. Extremely kind of you to send in your feedback. Second piece we have is from Cindy Patten, age 30-something, from Columbus. She says:

“I was real excited to find out that you did a twelve-hour show. I like to listen while I work, but when I downloaded the
show, I ended up listening to twelve hours of not much to do with
Harry Potter. It was all about the life and times of the show hosts. I usually love you guys, and if you want to spend hours upon hours talking about yourself, that’s fine, but maybe it should be on a different podcast.”

I would have to agree with that. It did completely lapse into that, but after a few hours, there wasn’t much else we could talk about without, sort of, collapsing, you know.

Laura: Yeah. It’s really a hard thing to kind of – it’s a hard thing to do when you want to do a show that long, because there are people like Cindy, who want to hear about Harry Potter, and then there are other listeners who would rather hear about some other things. They don’t want to…

Jamie: Some stories, yeah.

Laura: Yeah, they don’t want to be bombarded by Harry Potter for twelve hours, so we kind of try to find a happy medium where we discuss Harry Potter for a while, and then we discuss other things for a while, whether they be thing from our personal lives or…

Jamie: Stories we use.

Laura: …we just let people call in and…

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: …yeah.

Jamie: So perhaps we got it slightly wrong this time. But hopefully, when we do two or three hour shows, it’s going to improve a lot more. I think twelve, perhaps, was quite a sort of – start to do for our first big live show.

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: But, Cindy, all I can say is, you say it was about the life and times of the show hosts, but thankfully it wasn’t about the life and lies of the show hosts, right, Laura?

Laura: This is true.

Jamie: This is very true. Micah, what do you think about that?

Micah: I missed what you said there.

Jamie: You mean, you weren’t listening?

Micah: No, no. I couldn’t understand what you said. The second half of it.

[Jamie laughs]

Micah: It wasn’t about… [laughs]

Jamie: I said that – she said that it was about the life and times of the show hosts, but thankfully it wasn’t about the life and lies. Because we don’t like NC-17 podcasts, do we, Micah?

Micah: No, we don’t.

[Jamie and Laura laugh]

Jamie: Okay, Andrew has just ordered some new equipment to help make the show better. It’s extremely exciting; he’s absolutely pumped about it. I don’t know much about audio equipment, but it involves something called a mixer, some microphones, and he’s extremely excited. He’s trying to turn his bedroom into a studio-type setting. And this is going to help a lot on live shows, because many of the problems we experienced on that live show were due to trying to pump too much information through Skype, too much through Ustream, and not using appropriate equipment. But hopefully this is going to solve a lot of things, because we’ll be able to play music more effectively, take calls more effectively, and all that kind of stuff. I’m extremely excited about that.

Laura: Yeah, it’s going to be pretty awesome.

Jamie: I still long for the day when we all get our studio, and we all live close by, and we can all fly into it.

Laura: Oh, I know!

Jamie: And…

Laura: We were actually talking about that the other day, how cool it would be if one day we just had a headquarters…

Jamie: Aw, that’d be so cool.

Laura: …and – oh my God. Okay. [laughs] I can’t talk about that, I’ll get excited. But anyway…

Jamie: I was going to say, let’s take a moment to dream about that quickly…

Laura: Yeah. [laughs]

Jamie: …because it’s not going to happen. [laughs]

[Laura laughs]

Announcement: Pickle Pack

Jamie: Pickle Pack is open for one more week. It’s been open for a week already, and after this it will closed permanently until the end of this year when everyone’s subscription runs out. For everyone wondering what you get if you sign up now, because obviously it’s been quite awhile since the first sign-up date, you get all of the Blickles, all of the bonus content since then until now, and you get everything else until the end date. The only thing you don’t get is a badge on your profile, which says, “Original Pickle,” which we devised to – so everyone who signed up before got something on their profile. And you also don’t get a t-shirt. But you get all the bonus stuff. Only one more week to go, and so…

Laura: And you’re not paying thirty dollars this time if you register. You’re paying twenty-five. Is that right?

Jamie: Yes, Laura, you’re absolutely right. Twenty-five. Because you don’t get a t-shirt, we have reduced the price slightly. So you have one more week to go. Please sign up, it’s very, very, very enjoyable.

Laura: Yeah, and for those of you who don’t know, maybe we should explain what Blickles are really quick? For anybody who’s not…

Jamie: That’s a good point, yeah. Blickles are – we have on Pickle Pack seven different segments for each of the show hosts. And one – each show host has one day per week where they post their Blickle. And now, a Blickle is a word that has been created out of a combination of the word “pickle” and – what was the other one? – “blog.”

Laura: Mhm.

Jamie: A Blickle. So it’s a video blog, or a writing blog, every week from the show hosts, which says about what’s happening in their lives, Harry Potter news, discussion, normal news. What has there been? There’s been lip-synching songs, room tours, tours of the places where they live…

Laura: I played Guitar Hero.

Jamie: Laura played Guitar Hero, Andrew and his little brother modeled the Pickle Pack t-shirts. There’s been a whole host of stuff. And there are about a 150 bits of bonus content, I think, on there now. So if you sign up now, you have quite a bit of stuff to get through, with all the new stuff being released as well. We have a new piece every single day. So, one more week to go. We hope you get to sign up if you want to.

Laura: Mhm, absolutely.

Announcement: Ringtones

Jamie: Ringtones. Now, this is Andrew’s baby, but it’s a bit about ringtones. We have a website now where you can get Wizard Rock singles on your phone. You can get – what else can you get? You can get other bits of music from the show. And we hope soon to have the main theme tune on a ringtone. We’ll put a link in the show notes so you can download those and get them on your phone. And then if your phone rings in a place where there are MuggleCast fans, somebody will say, “Oh, wow! I know that! Do you listen to MuggleCast?” “Yeah, I do.” And then you make new friends through shared interests, which is always good, isn’t it, Laura?

Laura: Absolutely. I mean, who wouldn’t want their phone to ring and Andrew’s voice to play? [laughs]

Jamie: Precisely. I can’t think of a single person in this world – I mean, personally, I’d love it. Wouldn’t you?

Laura: Oh, I would, too. I’m going to buy one right after we record.

Jamie: [laughs] Buy one after you record. I’ve already got ten, Laura. Come on, now. Catch up.

Laura: Oh, my God. Fail.

Jamie: I won’t ask Micah, because he hasn’t even seen the fifth film…

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: …so how could he have a ringtone – a Harry Potter ringtone? We go to some rebuttals now.

Micah: Come on! It’s not like I don’t know what happens!

Jamie: Yeah, well…

Laura: No, you don’t. That’s the problem.

Jamie: You do talk about it every week.

Micah: I did read the book.

Jamie: Well done! Your medal is in the post as we speak. Okay, now we go to some rebuttals, but we’re thinking of calling them them a different name because they aren’t all rebuttals. They used to be, but now they’re just bits of mail, stuff that people want to talk about. So we’re thinking of renaming them “Muggle Mail.” What do you guys think?

Laura: Yeah, that sounds fine to me. Muggle Mail.

Micah: Yeah, it’s a cool name.

Jamie: Or we could call them “Micah Hasn’t Seen the Fifth Film Mail.”

Laura: [laughs] I think we should change the name of this show to “Micah Hasn’t Seen the Fifth Film Cast.”

Jamie: I agree, I agree. Get the word out, Micah! You should go and see it now, before we put the show out so you can redeem yourself.

Laura: You’d better see it by the time we record next.

Micah: Or?

Laura: Or you’re in big trouble.

Muggle Mail: Fred’s Death

Jamie: Very big trouble. You’re in deep water. Very, very deep water. Okay, our first piece of Muggle Mail comes from Emily, 20, from Reading, Pennsylvania.

“Hi, MuggleCast. I’m not sure if you’ve already discussed this, but I’m having problems coming to terms with one particular death in ‘Deathly Hallows.’ Why do you think Fred died? I’ve heard several theories, mostly that his death was simply a by-product of the Weasley family being so large, the idea that there is – that there is that the family couldn’t escape some kind of death. But the theory doesn’t make much sense to me. Look at the number of times they’ve been hurt and/or almost died. I really would like to hear your thoughts. Thanks a bunch. This is a great program. Good luck this semester. Emily.”


Laura: I think that it’s exactly what you just said. The Weasley family is enormous, and Molly said so herself in the fifth book that it would be a miracle if they all got out of it alive. The chances of them all getting out without dying would be between slim and none. It’s just such a huge family. You’re bound to have some kind of casualty, especially if you’re all fighting.

Jamie: Yeah, exactly. And also, more than that, it’s – Fred and George just seem like that pair that would not be split up, you know? And the humorous side, to me, sort of showed that humor can sort of – when you laugh, you forget the bad stuff that’s happening in the world, which is kind of true, but then his death shows that this war was a serious, serious war. Even people who are so close, powerful, confident people, can also be torn apart. Not in the literal sense, but in the – their affinity can be torn apart. But also, yeah, that their family was so big that somebody had to go. [laughs] That sounds mean, but I think it is true. Micah?

Laura: It’s really sad – go ahead, Micah.

Jamie: No, sorry, go on.

Micah: No, go ahead, Laura.

Laura: I was just going to say that it’s really sad because there was one point, I think in – it was Half-Blood Prince where they had the U-No-Poo sign up in their window…

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: …and Mrs. Weasley was like, “They’ll be murdered in their beds,” or something like that.

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: And then Fred dies, and I was just like “No!” It’s so sad.

Jamie: [laughs] I agree. It is sad. And it was an incredibly sad death. And to some people – quite a few people – completely unnecessary. But it’s – there were obviously more deaths that happened in this war that we just didn’t see.

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: And people think that if Jo doesn’t write about deaths then they don’t happen. Well, I kind of used to think that, then I realized, but there are other people dying who aren’t significant enough to be written about. They have to be main characters that die or it just completely loses its credibility, if that kind of makes sense.

Laura: Yeah, absolutely.

Jamie: Micah?

Micah: I think in one of the previous episodes I said that I thought one of them – I actually thought both of them were going to die, based off of that whole mention of Molly’s brothers dying in the previous war and them having similar initials.

Laura: Oh yeah, that’s right.

Jamie: Yeah.

Micah: But – and I was actually trying look at J.K. Rowling’s chat that she did on the web after the book came out, but I couldn’t find anything related to Fred’s death and why she killed him. I just – I don’t know. I think after what happened in the second chapter, where they’re being chased and George has his ear sliced off…

Jamie: Yeah.

Micah: …I just got the feeling that one of them was going to go, because you have all these near-death experiences so far. You go back to what happened in Order of the Phoenix with Arthur, and then George in the beginning of Deathly Hallows, Ginny in Chamber of Secrets, and Ron has a couple of close calls in Deathly Hallows as well. It just – it made sense that one of them was going to go. I mean, even J.K. Rowling was talking about, back in – how – was it Arthur that she spared in Order of the Phoenix?

Jamie: Yeah.

Micah: He was supposed to die.

Jamie: But then he didn’t, yeah.

Micah: He ended up not dying. So, unfortunately, one of them…

Jamie: Had to go.

Micah: …had to go.

Jamie: And it just unfortunately happened to be Fred. But it is an extremely sad death, and it hurt quite a few people.

Laura: Yeah, myself included.

Jamie: Really? Aww…

Laura: Well, yeah, you remember me. It was probably the last 75 pages of the book, I was just in tears the whole time. I was like, “No! Oh my God! Why?”

[Jamie laughs]

Micah: It should have been Percy.

Laura: And then Andrew just sat there and laughed at me the whole time.

Jamie: I remember that. That was incredibly funny. I’m not going to lie.

Laura: [laughs] You guys are mean. I don’t like you.

Jamie: No, no. But, Laura, it wasn’t that it was funny that you were crying. It was how you were doing it, which was just genius.

Laura: What do you mean, how I was doing it?

Jamie: Well, you’d read a page, curse pretty badly, burst into tears…

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: …recover, read a page, curse even worse, burst into – exactly. So it was like a repetitive cycle with recoveries in between. And Andrew was making it funnier by going, “Oh, oh!” You know, that kind of stuff.

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: It was…

Laura: That’s true.

Jamie: But I tried to act professional and be like, “Well, it’s an emotional time, Andrew. You’ve got to, you know…”

[Laura laughs]

Micah: Were you okay through Dobby, though?

Laura: Yeah, I actually didn’t cry when Dobby died. It was really sad, but I didn’t cry.

Jamie: Aww.

Laura: Like, at that point, I was just like – I don’t know, it was probably like three in the morning or something, and I don’t know. We were all really tired when we were reading.

Micah: Because he’s a House-elf he doesn’t matter as much? Is that what you’re saying?

[Jamie laughs]

Laura: No, it was almost too sad for tears. It was like…

Jamie: Oh, good save, Laura! Good save.

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: “Too sad for tears,” ugh! How many times have I heard that one? I think I’m just hard as rock, to be honest, but I only cried for Sirius.

Laura: Oh, really?

Jamie: Oh, wait! Oh, I – okay, well, that’s different when Book 7 came out. That is a completely different circumstance, but only for…

Laura: You made me cry. That was the worst part.

Jamie: Sorry, sorry.

Laura: I was perfectly fine, and then all of a sudden Jamie comes over and hugs me. He’s like, “Laura, this has been our lives!”

[Jamie and Laura laugh]

Laura: And then I just lost it.

Jamie: Aww! I know, that was sad. But Sirius to me was just – he’s probably my favorite liturgy – litratry – can’t say it now – character of all time. He’s just so – and the stuff he – he was so flawed, but so nice at the same time. And I think I just might go and cry now for a bit and then come back and restart the show.

Laura: Aww.

Harry Potter Vibrating Broom

Jamie: Now, following the show schedule that we type up every week, we’re up to number six in it. And that is “Harry Potter vibrating broom.” I know nothing about this.

Laura: Me neither.

Jamie: I think it could be a bit risky to talk about this if I know nothing about it. Laura, do you know anything about it? Or does Micah – do you know anything about it?

Micah: No.

Laura: I don’t know anything about it, and considering…

Jamie: I suggest we skip this and leave it for Andrew next week. Which brings us…

Micah: I think it was a tactic by Andrew…

Jamie: Huh?

Micah: …to throw it in there…

Jamie: I think it could be.

Micah: …to just make us say something completely inappropriate on the show and…

Jamie: Yeah. That probably…

Micah: …see if we actually did it.

Laura: Well, that goes to show what he knows, because we don’t have bad minds on this show. At least, the three of us don’t. We’re not perverted.

MuggleCast 114 Transcript (continued)

Main Discussion: Book 1 and 7 Parallels

Jamie: No, we’re not at all. At all. Which brings us nicely on to our Main Discussion, which is Book 1 and 7 parallels. Laura, do you want to introduce this?

Laura: Yeah. So, as a lot of people – or maybe you don’t remember – but pretty much ever since we started this show, I’ve been going on about how I think that the series is somewhat symmetrical. Like, Books 1 and 7 have a lot in common, 2 and 6, 3 and 5, and then Book 4 is the centerpiece. And so I really felt while I was reading Deathly Hallows that I noticed a lot of things that it did had in common with Book 1.

First Chapters Parallel

Laura: Now, to start us off with some little things, you’ll notice that Chapter 1 in Sorcerer’s Stone doesn’t start from Harry’s point of view, but it starts from the Dursleys’…

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: …and they don’t like him. And Chapter 1 of Deathly Hallows also starts in Snape and Yaxley’s – is it “Yaxley” or “Yakes-ley”? I never knew how to say his name.

Jamie: Yaxley.

Laura: Yaxley. It starts in their point of view, and they don’t [laughs] necessarily like him, either.

[Jamie laughs]

Laura: So I thought that was kind of interesting.

Jamie: That is interesting. I really, really enjoyed the chapters that aren’t from Harry’s point of view. And also in Book 6…

Laura: Oh, I know.

Jamie: …”The Other Minister.” Away from the circular nature of them, they were just awesome the way they were written.

Laura: Yeah. I love seeing things from – like you said, things that aren’t in Harry’s point of view, because you really get, I think, a more rounded view of what…

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: …of the kind of world that Jo is trying to create here.

Jamie: Exactly.

Laura: Because in Harry’s point of view, you kind of always see things through – and not to be funny here, but through his lenses.

Jamie: [laughs] Yeah, you do.

Laura: But he’s kind of like – he’s the kid who has had – he’s the hero who’s had everything pushed off on him. He never wanted to do this.

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: The only reason he’s so important is because he was forced to be. And it’s interesting to see the point of views of people who don’t necessarily have that responsibility for us to ponder.

Jamie: Exactly. And also, his narration is not objective, even nearly. He’s a flawed character, which isn’t a bad thing. But obviously, he’s a flawed character, which means we don’t get completely objective views of the world. And I would love, love to read the books from Snape’s point of view or from Voldemort’s point of view.

Laura: Oh my God, yes!

Jamie: Because Harry – it’s nice, but sometimes you get angry at the way he looks at things, because he doesn’t look. He doesn’t look at things perfectly the entire time or objectively, and he rushes into things; whereas I think Snape, to view it from an inquiring mind such as Snape’s, or an unemotional mind such as Voldemort’s would be fascinating.

Laura: Mhm. Especially Snape’s. That’s what I loved about seeing all of his memories at the end of the Deathly Hallows.

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: Where we saw – especially the whole scene where Dumbledore sort of implied that Snape cared about Harry…

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: …and Snape was like, “About him?” And he cast the Patronus and it was the doe, and it made Dumbledore cry. I was just – oh my God, that was just so good.

Jamie: That was an amazing scene, yeah. Micah, what do you think?

Micah: I like the comparison between the Dursleys and Snape and Yaxley. Are you trying to say that they are also a dysfunctional family, Laura?

Laura: Maybe. Actually, no.

[Micah laughs]

Laura: What I was trying to say was that it’s from the point of view of two people or two sets of people…

Micah: No, no, I know.

Laura: …who don’t like Harry.

Micah: I was just trying to make a joke.

Laura: The distinction that I was trying to make there was that we have seen other chapters that don’t take place in Harry’s point of view. But the comparison that I drew was that the Minister doesn’t necessarily not like Harry…

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: So that was the distinction I was trying to draw.

Micah: Right.

Laura: Sort of – sorry.

Jamie: No, go on.

Chapter Titles

Laura: Oh, I was going to say, sort of moving on, if you look at the chapter titles in Chapter One of Sorcerer’s Stone it refers to Harry in the title: “The Boy Who Lived.” And then Chapter One of Deathly Hallows refers to Voldemort: “The Dark Lord Ascending.”

Jamie: Yes. See…

Laura: I thought that that was pretty cool.

Jamie: That is interesting. And I thought, again, that was an awesome chapter because the tone was just completely different, because it had a completely different focal point. Harry, even though he can be angry and angsty, creates sort of a light, un-tense sort of feeling in – with everyone. But Voldemort – I mean, I felt nervous when I was reading that…

Laura: Mhm.

Jamie: …chapter. So I don’t know how all his Death Eaters felt being around him knowing that they could be instants from death. And it’s a completely different scenario, because in our world, your mind is free. You can think whatever you like, and thoughts can’t incriminate you because they can’t be read. But when you have an evil psychopath in front of you who can look into your mind, literally, and even though Snape says, “It’s not mind-reading,” to all intents and purposes it seems pretty like it to me. Perhaps I’m as unenlightened as Harry Potter, but if you think things, which he can use against you and use to justify killing you or hurting you, you’re going to be pretty nervous the entire time.

Laura: Yeah.

Micah: Yeah, I like that because just like what you were just saying with – you get a feeling for what it’s really like to be in his presence. Even somebody who’s as a big of a suck up as Bellatrix, he turns on her and talks about how her family has – I can’t put it the right way, but – I don’t want to use the word “betrayed,” but has just not been pure with Tonks and everything like that.

Jamie: Yeah.

Micah: That scene in particular where she starts to talk about Tonks’ marriage to Lupin and things like that.

Laura: Yeah, and that’s…

Micah: You get a feeling for just how nasty of an individual he is.

Laura: And that’s somewhat interesting that you bring up the idea of – in the first chapter of Deathly Hallows, everybody talking about the impurity, or so they believe, of certain family members, to be marrying people who aren’t purebloods.

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: You know, you look at Petunia. The second Vernon brings up that her sister is married to a wizard or that she’s a witch, Petunia doesn’t want to talk about it. She kind of shuns the idea; she doesn’t want to believe that they’re related. So I think that’s an interesting correlation.

Micah: See, and I thought that that was the biggest contradiction in the world, because – or she was just – she wanted to be a witch, though, that’s the funny thing about it. She didn’t want to have anything to do with it when she was around Vernon, but in the end she wanted to be at Hogwarts, so I just thought that that was kind of interesting.

Endings at King’s Cross

Jamie: Laura, your point about that both end at King’s Cross, I thought was excellent, because King’s Cross is extremely symbolic as sort of the place where you leave one world and go on to the other. You know, the Muggle world, the magical world. It’s also a symbol of safety, because all of the wizards there and that kind of thing. And also that it is sort of circular, as you say; it starts in one place and sort of ends in the other place, and Harry is happy in both places. Also, it’s because the people in both places are starting a new journey, so in the first book it’s Harry and his friends and in the seventh book it’s Harry’s children and his friends’ children. So it would be very interesting to see how their experiences at Hogwarts pan out, because Harry and his friends’ experiences were sort of experienced under a completely different sun than his children will be. There was a dark shadow over them with Voldemort, and even though everyone thought Voldemort was in hiding, perhaps a hiding threat is a lot worse than one which you can see in the open. So, that time at Hogwarts was, to all intents and purposes, sort of on a downer, kind of, because they had this shadow, whereas his children have more of a free life, and that kind of thing. Micah?

Micah: Yeah, I like the comparison that she drew, sort of as being the barrier between the two worlds, the real world and the magical world. But I also go back to that chapter when he’s with Dumbledore and thinking about how he compares it to King’s Cross, and it also being the barrier between the world – in my opinion – the world of the living and the world of the dead…

Jamie: Yeah.

Micah: …and there was such a religious connotation to the whole idea of King’s Cross, I think, throughout the entire series.

Jamie: I agree.

The Mirror of Erised

Laura: That’s interesting. Kind of moving on from that, in the first book in “The Mirror of Erised,” Harry sees himself… [coughs] – excuse me, I got dry throat here – surrounded by a loving family that is – wait – and that’s really how he finds himself in the epilogue of Deathly Hallows. And what I was kind of wondering was, does that mean that he would see himself exactly as he is in the Mirror now? Or has he gone through too much trauma for that to be a possibility?

Jamie: I would say that it would depend on how much closure he’s got on his previous life. If he still feels regret over what’s happened, and if he still longs for his family, then – I mean, obviously, he will always long for his family back, his parents. But if he’s accepted closure, then – then it’s – perhaps he would see himself as he is now, since he – you know, you can’t – if you change history, you don’t know what’s going to happen. So if he – if he longed for his past life, then he wouldn’t know if he’d have his children or if they’d be the same as they are now. So I don’t think someone like Harry would – well, I don’t think he’d take the risk of wanting to wish for something in the past when he’s happy now, and that…

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: …you know.

Laura: Well…

Jamie: What do you think?

Laura: …the impression that I got was that he was surrounded by his family because it was the one thing he’d never had. And then…

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: …at the end of Deathly Hallows we see him with that sort of family dynamic. And I think that he would see himself as he was, because I think that’s what he always wanted.

Jamie: Yeah, I – yeah.

Micah: Would he see anything, though? I mean, essentially, he’s achieved what his greatest desire was. I mean, if you take away the whole family aspect of it with his parents, wouldn’t – hasn’t he really achieved what he wanted more than anything else? I mean, he has a family now with Ginny. He has his two best friends, Ron and Hermione. I don’t know if he would really see anything if he looked in the Mirror.

Laura: Yeah, that’s what we’re saying. Like…

Micah: Because I think he’s achieved – yeah, sorry.

Laura: Like, Dumbledore said that the happiest man on Earth would see himself exactly as he is.

Jamie: But I think that’s a flawed thing of Dumbledore, because I don’t think you can ever be perfectly happy. There’s always going to be something more you want and stuff that happens changes you. So Harry’s family, I’m sure – you know, it’s an incredibly happy circumstance. But I doubt he’s completely happy. There could always be one more thing. Like, perhaps – perhaps, you know, he – perhaps he loves his son so much that he would be happy if his son wasn’t worried about Slytherin. So there’s always one more thing that could make him happier. So I don’t think…

Laura: I don’t…

Jamie: Especially someone like Harry.

Laura: Do you really think the Mirror goes that far, though? Like…

Jamie: Well, I don’t know. That’s what I’m not sure about. If it can sense that type of subtlety.

Laura: I don’t think it really goes that far. I think it kind of goes into, like, fundamental things that you would expect people to want. Like, obviously now we know that Dumbledore’s, you know, was something a bit more important than wanting socks.

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: So I think that it really goes into the…

Jamie: Well…

Laura: I think it really goes into the things that you want at the depth of your soul. Like, for instance, Hermione at the time that – before the end of Deathly Hallows, she would have wanted to see herself in the Mirror with Ron.

Jamie: Yes.

Laura: So I think it’s sort of more of a human interest. Not really, like – not really little things, like, oh, I wish that, you know, my son wasn’t worried about this. Or…

Jamie: Or I had a…

Laura: …I…

Jamie: …washboard abdominal muscles.

Laura: Yeah.

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: Or I want that new broomstick, you know.

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: I don’t think it’s like that.

Micah: Yeah. I think it goes back to what Jamie said, though. How much closure he had on the issue – or on the image that he saw initially. Because it would just seem to me that – when Jo answered what Dumbledore would see if he looked in the Mirror, she said that he would see himself perfectly happy with his family. You know, with his sister alive, with his mother alive.

Jamie: Yeah.

Micah: With his father alive. So – and no quarreling going on between him and his brother. So I just don’t know if Harry looked in there, if he would see himself with his parents again. I think that he – especially in that scene in Deathly Hallows, you know, where he’s walking into the forest. I think he put closure on that issue.

Jamie: Yeah, that is true.

Laura: Mhm.

Jamie: Very true. That is – yeah, that’s good.

Laura: That’s very good.

Jamie: And also, there’s a big difference between desire and happiness. Like, I mean, to see yourself with your family is not to see yourself as happy with your family. Do you know what I mean?

Laura and Micah: Oh, that’s true.

Jamie: So like, you know – it’s like a photo. He sees himself in the Mirror of Erised as a photo. But photos can’t reveal that much emotion.

Micah: So really what you’re saying is there’s three knives stuck into their backs, and you can’t see them…

Jamie: Yes, exactly.

Micah: …because they’re facing forward.

Laura: [laughs] Oh my God. Micah.

Jamie: [laughs] Micah, that could not have been more specific on what I was saying.

[Laura and Micah laugh]

Laura: That is rather violent. Okay. So note to self: never take a picture with Micah.

Jamie: [laughs] Yeah. You’ll feel the sharp pain in your…

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: In your kidneys at some point.

Ginny and Lily Begging to go to Hogwarts

Laura: So anyway, kind of moving on and still dealing with the family aspect. And this is just a little thing. But in the beginning of Book 1, Ginny was begging Mrs. Weasley if she could go to Hogwarts, whining about how she wants to go, and Mrs. Weasley kind of scolds her and says, “You’re too young.” And then, at the end of Deathly Hallows, little Lily Potter is begging Harry and Ginny if she can go to Hogwarts, and they both tell her that it will be a couple of years. And I just thought that was kind of a cute little correlation, like – Micah?

Micah: Yeah. No, I think that’s interesting.

Laura: Yeah.

Micah: Now Ginny is begging at the beginning, right, when they first get to King’s Cross?

Laura: Mhm.

Micah: So, I mean, I think there are little things like that that you can certainly make a comparison between.

Laura: Yeah.

Micah: I don’t think that, you know, it’s something beyond the reach of Jo necessarily. I think that she’s the type of person that would sort of draw those different parallels between the two books.

Laura: Oh yeah, I think so too. I think she definitely wrote that as kind of a way of bringing the whole story full circle. You know, Harry’s now at the train station with his family and he’s seeing his kids off, which is what he always wanted and he never had. So he’s able to give that to someone else. So I think that’s really good.


Laura: And then kind of moving off of the whole family aspect, we see a lot of Gringotts in Books 1 and 7. It’s mentioned, and we see it – I believe they do go to Gringotts in Chamber of Secrets, but it’s not really described in any great detail. But doesn’t Griphook take – go down with them both times? It was…

Micah: Yeah, I believe it is Griphook that takes them down.

Laura: Yeah, in the first book.

Micah: In the first book Harry and Hagrid go down with him and then, of course, in Deathly Hallows he’s the one that sort of sneaks them in. I’m not going to say that they went with permission, that’s for sure.

Laura: No. I found that idea interesting. I always liked the idea – we were kind of talking about, you know, before the book came out, the idea that whenever Harry, Hagrid, and Griphook were going down that Harry thought he saw a burst of flame, and we were thinking that could be a dragon, and then it turned out to be a dragon, so it was really cool. So I think we’ve pretty much wrapped up all of the little connections. Does anybody else have anything they want to say before we move on?

Jamie: Well, I just wanted to say, kind of unrelated, but I thought the Thief’s Downfall was one of the most awesome things I’ve ever read about in my life.

Laura: Oh God, yes. [sighs]

Jamie: I thought it was absolutely unbelievable. It was so cool.

Laura: I love how everything’s awesome to you, Jamie. [laughs]

Jamie: Well, no, no, no. It’s just like extremely specific things. I mean, for example, the Thief’s Downfall, the dust figure of Dumbledore…

Laura: Oh, that was so cool.

Jamie: …the genie in the enchanted globe. I think Jo writes these things – she has like a notepad and she has two headings, “normal” and “awesome,” and those things are under the “awesome” heading, seriously.

Laura: [laughs] We’ll have to – we should ask her about that.

Jamie: That is what I’d ask her, yeah.

Laura: If we ever run into her. No, I can just see it. Everybody at the reading in October is going to be asking these like, really difficult…

Jamie: In-depth, yeah.

Laura: …convoluted questions, and then Jamie just stands up: “Do you have a notepad in which you label things ‘normal’ and ‘awesome?'” [laughs]

Jamie: I would, I swear, do that if I was there. They’d be like, “Do you think the character of Hermione has sort of underdeveloped in a sort of post-modern chic sense? How awesome was that, Jo?” It would just be like that.

Laura: [laughs] Oh my gosh, I love you, Jamie.

Jamie: You too.

Laura: Aww.

Jamie: Aww.

[Micah laughs]

Laura: So – see, we all love each other on this show.

Micah: No, see, he didn’t say he loved you. He said he loved himself as well.

Jamie: No, I said “you too.”

Micah: Oh.

Jamie: Yes, I love Bono. Oh, he’s so cool.

Laura: Yeah, I was waiting for that.

Jamie: [laughs] Should we move on?

Laura: Yeah. So we kind of had, and I love bringing up things about Snape, because I love Snape, and I think Snape is just, as Jamie would say, awesome.

Jamie: Awesome, yeah he is.

[Jamie and Laura laugh]

Jamie: He’s so cool.

Laura: [imitating a British accent] “Awesome,” as Jamie would say it.

Jamie: Ah-some.

The Men With Two Faces

Laura: It’s not ah-some, it’s awe-some. Aww-some. So, in Sorcerer’s Stone you had Quirrell, who was sort of like our first bad guy. Kind of, you know. He was more of a vessel, though. He wasn’t – he was more evil in the fact that he allowed himself to be used for evil things because he was seeking power.

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: And you see him – he’s known as the Man who had – With Two Faces, from the chapter title. And I thought it was interesting that Book 1 sort of had this literal use of a man with two faces, and then in Book 7 we see Snape who has two faces…

Jamie: Who actually has two faces, yeah.

Laura: …in the sense that he was on both sides of the war. So…

Jamie: Actually, that’s so, so interesting, because Harry thinks Snape is the one with two faces, first of all, and then Jo thinks it’s Quirrell, but it’s not Quirrell. It is actually Snape and, you know. Do you know what I mean?

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: So I mean, Harry got it right first of all. I thought Quirrell was a disgusting character. I thought he was – I mean, there’s no problem with being weak, but he was, you know, weak in a bad way. Weak because he needed power to sustain his confidence, that kind of thing. I thought he was an awful character.

Laura: Yeah. Oh, he was. And I just – I hated him because throughout the entire book you kind of felt bad for him because everybody was kind of mean to him, and he stuttered, and he was really weak.

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: And then whenever Harry confronts him, he’s like – he loses the stutter and he’s automatically this power-hungry – I hate that guy.

Jamie: Exactly, he was an awful, awful character. But then I guess you would be if you had Voldemort on the back of your head. And how – and you couldn’t sleep on your back because Voldemort would suffocate.

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: You’d have to sleep on your side. So you…

Laura: Didn’t we have a debate about this a long time ago?

Jamie: I don’t know.

Laura: I want to say it was like a year ago, about why would you choose to be on the back of someone’s head?

Jamie: I have no idea.

Laura: Like… [laughs]

Jamie: But…

Laura: But where else would you go? Like…

Jamie: You – that is quite true, actually. And – but – I don’t know. I sort of…

Laura: Well, where would you go, Jamie?

Jamie: I would probably go on the chest or something. Because – actually no, no I wouldn’t. I probably would go on the back of their head. But then you can’t see what he’s seeing. So the arguments must be – God, look at that. What? That! But then as soon as one person turns around, the other person can’t see it. So I imagine they argued a lot, Quirrell didn’t get much sleep, because he had to only sleep on his side. I bet Voldemort snored as well, so I’m not surprised Quirrell was a bad person, actually. I forgive him. Do you?

Laura: Well, what I don’t get is why Quirrell didn’t just roll over and smother him in a pillow. Like…

Jamie: That’s what he should’ve done, shouldn’t he?

Laura: God! This whole problem would’ve been completely…

Jamie: These people have no…

Laura: …solved. Oh my gosh!

Jamie: No logical thought at all. It’s disgusting.

Laura: Yeah. So going off of one thing that Jamie mentioned about Snape being evil. You know, Harry thinks that Snape is evil in both books, and then at the end, he finds out that he actually wasn’t, that he was actually trying to help him.

Jamie: Which he doesn’t find out about Quirrell, of course.

Laura: Well, no, no, I’m talking about Snape though. Like, just…

Jamie: No.

Laura: Like at the end of Sorcerer’s Stone, Harry finds out that Snape actually wasn’t the bad guy. And then…

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: …at the end of Deathly Hallows, he finds out that Snape didn’t actually kill Dumbledore, because Voldemort ordered him to, you know.

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: And that he was in love with Lily.

Jamie: Aww.

Laura: Aww.

Jamie: I do feel sorry for Snape.

Laura: Oh my God!

Jamie: He is a tragic hero.

Laura: I was reading – I was re-reading that whole thing where Snape – you know, he looked at Harry and he said, “Look at me,” and I was just like – my heart, like, it just – oh my God. [sighs] It just…

Jamie: No, he poured out of him, yeah.

Laura: It just tugged – oh my God. It was so horrible.

Jamie: The thing – but…

Laura: So sad.

Jamie: The thing about the two faces thing, isn’t it kind of ironic? Because doesn’t Jo sort of teach us that everyone has – not two faces in the traditional sense of being nice in one or bad in the other – but she sort of says everyone has skeletons in their closet. Some have bigger ones, some have more of them, but everyone is not typically who they are to everyone. So people act differently in front of friends, family. People have bigger agendas. That isn’t to say that everyone isn’t nice, but…

Micah: Absolutely.

Jamie: You know.

Micah: No, I completely agree with that, though, because you have people at work who just act like complete and utter…

Jamie: Idiots. [laughs]

Micah: …snobs.

Jamie: Yeah.

Micah: And they suck up to the boss, and they act completely different around them than they would around any other normal people. So I think that’s – you know, it’s definitely an element in the Harry Potter series, as well. I thought that maybe Harry should’ve gotten a clue that Snape wasn’t…

Jamie: Yes.

Micah: …completely evil. In Book 1 when he saved his life…

Jamie: Yes. Yeah, that is very true.

Micah: But seeing Dumbledore die in front of him, I can kind of understand why he might take a different…

Jamie: The thing that got me, though…

Micah: …feeling towards him.

Jamie: …it’s quite a risk for Dumbledore to take. Because he knows that Harry is – although he’s not the most powerful wizard, he is a very able person. And he could have – considering he can channel his anger and his love more so – he could have killed Snape inadvertently, accidentally, or on purpose. and that could have ruined the entire plans. Because if he’d killed Snape, having not known the memory that Snape had to give him, the entire course of the book would have changed, and I doubt his victory would have been the same, if that makes sense.

Laura: Yeah. I – oh my gosh. I was just – you know, I wondered that at the end of Book 6 whenever Harry said, you know, “If I run into Severus Snape, so much the better for me, so much the worse for him.”

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: I was like, oh crap! He’s going to kill him, and then it’s going to turn out that he was actually good. [laughs]

Jamie: Yeah, exactly.

Laura: So that would’ve been awesome, I think, but awful at the same time.

Jamie: What? See, Laura, I think it would’ve been just awful if Harry had killed…

Laura: [imitating British accent] Awful! It would have been awful, not awesome.

Jamie: …the one person that would save the world. [laughs]

Laura: No, I…

Micah: See, I think that’s interesting, though, because in the entire series, or – sorry, particularly in the seventh book, it seemed as if Harry was building up to cast the Avada Kedavra curse, because there was the Imperius curse…

Jamie: Yes. Yeah.

Micah: …and then there was the Cruciatus curse on – I forget the Death Eater that was attacking McGonagall or being…

Jamie: Alecto.

Micah: Alecto being cruel to McGonagall, and you just thought, okay, this is building up. He’s going to cast this curse at some point in the series…

Jamie: Yeah.

Micah: …and then it never ends up happening.

Jamie: Yes.

Laura: I like that he doesn’t have to, though.

Jamie: But perhaps it’s on purpose that he doesn’t. Perhaps if you – I mean, the Cruciatus curse and Imperius curse perhaps can be cast through the feelings of love. But perhaps killing someone, as it’s been told throughout the entire books, it’s a violation of nature. And however many times you cast the Imperius or Cruciatus curse, it won’t ever split your soul in two. It’s only killing the [unintelligible], so perhaps Harry – the point that even though he has anger and he has love, he can’t bring himself to kill anyone using something like that.

Laura: No. All he has to do is say, “Expelliarmus.”

Jamie: Well, exactly, yeah.

[Jamie and Laura laugh]

Jamie: That solves everything. Absolutely everything.

Laura: It solves all of my problems.

Jamie: Me too, me too.

Ambiguity About Dumbledore

Laura: Branching off of that, going away from Snape and focusing on Dumbledore for a minute, we kind of have a lot of ambiguity that we see in Books 1 and 7 about Dumbledore. Actually, in Sorcerer’s Stone, if you guys remember, you don’t see a whole lot of Dumbledore.

Jamie: No, you don’t.

Laura: Harry talks to him on a couple of occasions. He talks to him at the Mirror of Erised and then at the end, and I think that’s pretty much it, isn’t it? There really aren’t any other instances, are there?

Jamie: But – no, there aren’t. Or if there are they’re very sparse. Very brief.

Laura: Yeah, and you just don’t find out a whole lot about him, and you see Harry kind of curious. There’s one point…

Jamie: I think that was part of his plan though. Dumbledore was not a stupid man, obviously, but his plan spans seven books, if that makes sense.

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: So he couldn’t have said in Book 1, “Oh, Harry, you have to die,” that kind of stuff. Everything was worked out and he had to gain Harry’s trust. I don’t think it would have worked if they’d just been talking. He had to be the mentor, father figure to Harry for everything to work out, because Harry effectively put blind faith in him and he’d have gone to the ends of the Earth for Dumbledore had Dumbledore wanted to, and I think he needed that for him to trust Snape’s memory. Because how did Harry not know that that memory – although, I guess it’s hard to fake a memory. A wizard as impressive as Snape and as powerful as Snape could possibly have done that on Voldemort’s orders or perhaps there’s dark magic that can do it. So, there had to be serious trust for Harry to do anything that Dumbledore wanted, which I think was characterized by their lack of contact first of all and gradually building up to the crescendo before he died.

Laura: Yeah, I think so too. I really like seeing Dumbledore’s plan come full circle…

Jamie: Definitely.

Laura: …because you look at the end of the first book where Dumbledore lies to Harry when Harry asks him why Snape saved him and he said it was because “he couldn’t bear to be in debt to your father.” And it was actually because he was saving him for Lily.

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: And I just – oh my God, it’s so brilliant the way she set it up. I hate to keep…

Jamie: It’s awesome, Laura. [laughs]

Laura: I hate to kiss the ground that she walks on and sound – even though I do – and sound like I’m just a complete suck-up here, but she’s – oh my gosh. I look at all these different parallels that she set up and everything that was set up from the very beginning and it’s so brilliant the way she did it.

Jamie: It is. It is. It is brilliant the way she planned everything. Dumbledore is just – he’s just such an interesting character as he is the tragic hero as well. His life is characterized by negativity and only trying to help others, but he’s flawed in how he does it as well. It’s such – he really is a sad character.

Laura: And when you go back and read Book 1 you don’t really imagine that about him. At all.

Jamie: He’s just awesome then.

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: He really is though. It’s just everything – again, I think it’s her showing us that people aren’t who they seem first of all and can and have backgrounds, and there are reasons why people do things. It’s not – people don’t do things illogically. There are reasons why people get upset at certain things because of their background or do certain things because of their background.

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: Her books are a wealth, a pool of lessons on life and everything has some type of lesson, I think, personally.

Laura: Yeah.

Micah: She really humanized Dumbledore, I think.

Jamie: She really did. Yeah.

Micah: And not that she took away from who he came across as through the first six books, because he was this all powerful wizard that we knew absolutely nothing about. In a way it bothered me the way that she did that in Book 7.

Laura: Really!

Micah: I don’t know why. It’s kind of like you take the man that’s been up on this pedestal for the entire series and then you show that he’s flawed.

Jamie: But, Laura…

Micah: Not that’s there’s anything wrong with that…

Laura: That’s actually Micah, Jamie.

[Micah laughs]

Jamie: No, no, no, but are we going to trust the opinion of someone who hasn’t even seen the fifth film here?

Laura: Oh, right. Yeah. How do you know that there’s not something crucial in the fifth film, Micah?

Jamie: It’s absolutely essential to the…

Laura: You don’t know.

Jamie: …plot of the movies, Micah.

Laura: And the books! And the books too.

Jamie: Exactly. You just don’t know these things. But apart from that, I loved it. I love it when characters are humanized.

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: I thought it was brilliant, to be honest.

Laura: I really thought that that was something that needed to be done for Dumbledore because he’s not God or a god-like character. He is a human being, and I think that we started seeing his flaws in Book 5 when he really messed up by not being more up front with Harry. And it caused so much turmoil, and I think that we really began seeing that he was not some kind of supernatural being…

Jamie: Exactly.

Laura: …despite how smart he is or how clever he is. He’s got his own problems.

Jamie: Exactly. And it was a turning point for Harry when he realized that Dumbledore was not invulnerable. Because that was a safety net for him the entire time, you know? When he thought that Dumbledore was there, there was nothing that could touch him, really. Anything. And even though he was worried about the war, there was Dumbledore, and Dumbledore came to save the day, and I think that was characterized in Order of the Phoenix when – even when the Order was fighting Dumbledore down in the Department of Mysteries, there was – something – things could still go wrong and did go wrong, but as soon as Dumbledore came, Neville became more excited. Everyone just relaxed slightly because Dumbledore does save the day and it was so sad to see that that is not the case and Dumbledore has worries and he was terrified about the whole Harry/Voldemort thing, that things wouldn’t work out, you know?

Laura: Yeah, and just kind of looking at this one quote here from Sorcerer’s Stone, it comes after Harry asks Dumbledore what he saw in the Mirror of Erised. It says, “It was only when he was back in bed that it struck Harry that Dumbledore might not have been quite truthful.”

Jamie: Exactly.

Laura: “But then he thought, as he shoved Scabbers off his pillow, it had been quite a personal question.”

Jamie: Exactly. Sorry, go on.

Laura: Just knowing that at that point, Dumbledore was actually – it was actually such a dark thing that he was seeing in the Mirror.

Jamie: Exactly, yeah.

Laura: It was like his family that he wanted. His sister, that we’re not really sure who actually killed her. It might have been Dumbledore.

Jamie: Exactly, yeah.

Laura: I mean, just knowing that he had been friends with Grindelwald, and that he had actually been for the – I don’t want to say persecution – but he was definitely of the opinion that wizards were higher than Muggles at one point in time…

Jamie: He was, yeah. He was, yeah.

Laura: …and just knowing all that about him, you know…

Jamie: But – sorry, go on.

Laura: You see all these conspiracy stories about public officials and stuff, you know – look at what they did when they were young…

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: …and everybody sort of holds that against them, and you wonder how he has gone the whole series without anybody…

Jamie: Finding out, yeah.

Laura: …having that information and finding out about him. He must have terrified…

Jamie: Yeah, absolutely.

Laura: …that someone would have found out about that.

Jamie: But also, I think she was showing two things doing that. She was showing that people cannot be blamed for their situational backgrounds, so you think if we’d been in the same situation, if our sister had been attacked by Muggles, and we hadn’t seen any further attacks from wizards on Muggles in that time, perhaps we also would have some sense of sort of persecution attached to them because they ruined or tore our family apart. But then she also shows that people can change, and that “it’s our choices, Harry,” you know, that make us who we are. So she’s giving two lessons in Dumbledore. Dumbledore is a heap of lessons.

Micah: Actually, Laura…

[Laura laughs.]

Jamie: A dead heap of lessons, but a heap of lessons nonetheless.

Laura: [laughs] Dumbledore is a dead heap of lessons. Let’s make that the title of this episode.

Micah: [laughs] Yeah, there you go.

Jamie: Dead heap of lessons? Nice.

[Laura laughs]

Micah: Laura – but this actually goes back to what you were saying before on the whole book coming from Harry’s perspective. He was never around anybody to hear differently. Nobody’s going to tell that story to Harry about Dumbledore based on the people that he interacts with. You know what I mean?

Laura: Oh yeah, I know, I’m not…

Micah: This is what Jamie was talking about as far as us never really hearing about it through seven entire books. Well, part of the reason is that it’s from Harry’s perspective, and Harry never interacts with the people that we would expect to say anything negative about Dumbledore.

Laura: Well, what – something that – what I was kind of referring to was the idea that especially whenever The Daily Prophet was out trying to dig up everything they could on Dumbledore, it’s somewhat surprising that you didn’t really hear about his – anything that he did when he was younger. Like, you would think that that would be the
sort of thing that they were out to try and find on him.

Jamie: Yeah, definitely, because it was like politicians ruining it, saying – completely undermining the person. Undermining their sort of beliefs and opinions to completely undermine their opinions on the current situation, if that makes sense. I’m surprised they didn’t as well, but perhaps they thought even that was beneath them. But not Rita Skeeter.

[Jamie and Laura laugh]

Laura: No.

Micah: I think it was because Jo decided to be better in Book 7. You know, guys? I mean, come on.

Laura: Yeah, probably.

Jamie: Yeah, that is true. She said to Fudge, “Look, okay, I’m planning it for Book 7.”

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: “Do not put it in The Daily Prophet now because it won’t be fair.”

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: And then he said, “Oh, but, Jo,” and then she said, “Look, I’ll buy you a new hat,” and then he gave in.

[Laura laughs]

Micah: or “I’ll kill you.”

Jamie: Yeah, or “I’ll kill you.”

[Laura and Micah laugh]

Jamie: One of the two. Okay, should we move on?

Anchors to Life

Laura: Yeah. And then the last thing we have on our list here is the idea of anchors to life that you see as a huge theme in these two books. We definitely know throughout the whole series Voldemort wants to be immortal, but you really see the largest presence of them in Books 1 and 7 because with Book 1 you have the idea of the Philosopher’s or the Sorcerer’s Stone, the Elixir of Life, which Voldemort is trying to get. And ten in Book 7 you have the Horcruxes and the destruction of them, and we really find out a lot about the Horcruxes in Book 7. I mean, we discover their presence in Book 6, but we really delve deep into what they are in Book 7.

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: One of the really striking images that I’m kind of reminded of by this whole idea is in Book 1 when Harry’s in the forest and he finds the dead unicorn.

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: And it’s like Voldemort has killed a very pure symbol of life.

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: And it’s such a striking visual. Like, you never really – and they even did that very well in the movie, like the way they set that whole scene up. It was really quite well done. Do you guys remember it?

Jamie: Yes, I do. I also thought it was awesome. For those reasons, and also because it just showed that innocence is not completely protected from evil, and that was sort of – even though the books got progressively darker and there were other turning points, that was a kind of – no one’s safe. This person is an absolute psychopath. He will do everything…

[Micah laughs]

Jamie: …he can.

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: And it also established that he – death was his greatest fear.

Laura: Yeah, definitely.

Jamie: And also, the whole anchors to life thing is again another thing from Jo that the – that says, you know, you need to live in the present. You mustn’t try and attain immortality because you’ll forget how to live now. And you shouldn’t be scared of death and all that kind of thing. Again, it’s another lesson.

Laura: Yeah, I mean, look at Voldemort, who – he spent his whole life trying to avoid death so by the time it came, he never actually achieved anything.

Jamie: Exactly, yeah.

Micah: Because…

Laura: What were you going to say, Micah?

Micah: Oh, I was just going to say, I like the whole comparison as well to – in Book 1, Harry isn’t in a race against Voldemort, really, because he thinks he’s trying – well, Snape and later Voldemort – to get to the Sorcerer’s Stone, and Harry’s sort of in a race against time with him, and same thing really in Book 7; he’s in a race to destroy the Horcruxes before Voldemort gets there as well, and
starts to realize…

Laura: Yeah, I didn’t think of that. That’s very good.

Jamie: That is interesting. Very interesting.

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: I – but – the – also, the entire Horcruxes/Hallows thing was just – even though Harry was like Horcruxes versus Hallows, both were evil in…

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: …essence, because both were trying to prolong something that shouldn’t be prolonged.

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: So like, the Horcruxes were saying you shouldn’t tear your Earthly soul apart to try and prolong your life indefinitely. The Hallows were like – the Stone was like, you shouldn’t try to bring people back when they’ve moved on, you need closure. The Wand was that you shouldn’t ask for power because it comes with the responsibility, and if
you can’t handle that then you shouldn’t be trying to get in in the first place, which is what Dumbledore realizes. And the Cloak, I felt, was that you shouldn’t hide yourself, and you should act for who you are and you shouldn’t try. And I
mean, obviously, that Cloak is…

Laura: Is awesome.

Jamie: Harry needed it, and he – if he didn’t have it, he probably would have been dead eight pages into Book 1, but…

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: …again, it teaches a valuable lesson, I thought.

Laura: Yeah. I never really thought of it that way, Jamie. I really like that. [laughs]

Jamie: Thank you, Laura.

Laura: [with British accent] It’s awesome.

Jamie: [with American accent] Awesome.

Laura: [laughs] All right, does anybody else have any other thoughts on that?

Micah: I shared my thoughts already.

Laura and Jamie: Okay.

Dueling Club

Jamie: Well, should we move on to…

Laura: Yep.

Jamie: … A Dueling Club this week. Now… [laughs] …I got an e-mail a while ago that said: “Harry Potter could kick Optimus Prime’s…” and then an

Laura: Oh, wow.

Jamie: What do you think about that? Harry Potter and Optimus Prime.

Laura: Hmm. Well, I just saw Transformers for the first time the other night. Ah, gosh.

Micah: Oh, you mean you didn’t see it in theater?

[Jamie laughs]

Laura: Well, seeing as I don’t participate on a podcast…

[Jamie laughs]

Laura: …about Transformers, no.

Jamie: Touché!

Laura: I would say that Prime’s biggest weakness is that you can just jam something…

[Jamie laughs]

Laura: …into his chest and he dies! Like, I mean…

Jamie: That is quite a weakness.

Laura: I mean, seeing as Harry managed to stab a sword through a Basilisk’s head, I think that he could take that cube of power and just jam it in to Prime’s chest and he’d be done for.

Jamie: That is true. But I just – I mean, Harry’s magic I don’t think is that advanced, really. I mean, if we’d – if…

Laura: Okay, Shia LaBeouf did it.

Jamie: Yes. That is true.

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: However, he was an actor in that film, Laura, and he was supposed to do that. Oh, wait! Or did he actually kill Optimus Prime?

Laura: No, no. He killed the other guy. But he could have killed…

Jamie: Wow!

Laura: …Optimus Prime.

Jamie: See, I think that if it was Voldemort or Dumbledore against Optimus Prime, we wouldn’t even be talking about it because it would be obvious. Or Snape as well! But…

Laura: Or Chuck Norris.

Jamie: Huh? Well, Laura…

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: …if you try and think about that, you will suffer a round-house kick related death. It’s not even worth it, trust me.

[Micah laughs]

Laura: You’ve been telling me this for two weeks and I have yet to suffer that.

Jamie: Do you know why that is? Because you’ve been
expecting it. The minute – the minute you go into sort of self comfort zones, then you might as well just give up. You might as well round-house kick yourself because you’re going to save yourself a lot of pain and anger. Because Chuck – Chuck doesn’t understand pain and anger, he just – he just understands death. Twice.

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: So Harry and Optimus Prime. Micah, what do you think?

Micah: Are we talking about Harry at the end of Book 7 before the epilogue or post-epilogue? Or post-last chapter?

Jamie: Both!

Micah: Eh. [sighs] Oh boy. I hate the Dueling Club. So does Optimus get a wand?

Jamie: Well, he doesn’t have blood or any through his veins…

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: … and you’ve got to have magical blood, and he’d probably just eat it or something, or…

[Micah laughs]

Jamie: …snap it. I don’t know if he could wield a wand.

Laura: Yeah. I don’t think he has a wand.

Micah: What if Harry conjured a Patronus? Do you think that would scare him off?

Jamie: No.

Micah: He’d eat the stag too.

Laura: Probably not. No, I think that…

[Jamie and Laura laugh]

Jamie: Yeah exactly. He’d be hungry. What about the Terminator and Harry?

Micah: Oh, forget it. Hasta la vista, Harry.

[Everyone laughs]

Jamie: Yeah, I agree. I agree completely.

Laura: I agree with that.

Jamie: I mean, Harry would try and be like, “But I’ve lived a great life. Expelliarmus, Expelliarmus, Expelliarmus…”

[Laura and Micah laugh]

Jamie: …and he’d just be like – he’d just grab him
by the throat and be like, “I am not amused.” And then he’d just strangle him or something and then Harry Potter would be no more. So Harry Potter should not pick a fight with Arnold Schwarzenegger. There would not be a chance in a million years. However, Dumbledore versus the Terminator. I think Dumbledore would succeed in making him cry because he isn’t a human, and then he’d sort of trick him and strangle him or something.

Laura: Oh my gosh. Wow, that’s deep, Jamie.

Make the Connection

Jamie: Thank you. Okay, now we’re going to do a couple of Make the Connections. We only have two this week since we are only three. Laura, yours is you have to make a connection between Harry Potter and buying a 250 gigabyte external hard drive, bringing it home, plugging it in, and then finding out it doesn’t work.

Laura: Okay. Gosh. I guess that would sort of be along the lines of people who went out and bought their 800-page copies of Book 7 and had pages upside down and pages
that were missing because then they couldn’t get the full use of it…?

Jamie: Yes. Yes! That’s not bad at all, not bad at all. That was very good, Laura, and I liked it because it was done on sort of theoretical stuff. See, I think you can
either do it on specific stuff, so Harry Potter or Hermione or Snape or something like that, or you can do it on sort of the Harry Potter book series as a whole, and I
liked that since it linked the entire series with buying a hard disk and finding out it didn’t work. Okay, Micah, yours is – this is quite a tough one. Harry Potter and buying a horse, blinking, and then finding out it’s turned into a bottle of Arizona Iced Tea.

Micah: Wow. Is it a specific flavor?

Jamie: Well, I think that’s up to you; you’re the master of this universe, sir.

Tangent: Jamie Saw an “Emo” at the Zoo

Jamie: While Micah’s thinking about that, there’s a story I wanted to tell. This is the story I
want to tell. I went to a zoo a couple of weeks ago, all right? And I was with a few friends, this is a big zoo, so we’re going around and we came to the part where you
can feed the animals. So we bought a couple of packs of food things, and we saw a shire horse which was so cute, we went past some pigs, past some sheep, fed them, and then we came to the emu enclosure, but they had misspelled emu and instead of saying emu it said “emo.”

Laura: [laughs] Are you serious?

Jamie: Yes, absolutely 100% serious. So I was expecting it to sit in the corner and be listening to Panic! with like a black T-shirt on and its hair was right over its eyes going, “Woe is me, I can’t believe I’m an emo.” But that didn’t happen. But yes, it actually said “emo.” I could not believe it.

Laura: Oh, that’s brilliant.

Jamie: I might go back and see if it’s still alive or if it’s killed itself out of sheer emotional distress.

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: Or something like that. I wonder if it has a MySpace. I should’ve asked it. Micah, any progress on
the Arizona Iced Tea?

Micah: No, not really. Try to give me until the end of the show. Let’s see if I can…

Contact Information

Jamie: Okay, guys that brings us to the end of MuggleCast Episode 1-1-4. We are just about to hear Micah’s answer to his Make the Connection. But before we do that, if you would like to phone in and you’re in the U.S. please call 1-218-20-MAGIC, if you’re in the U.K. 020-8144-0677, if you’re in Australia 028-003-5668.

[Show music begins]

Jamie: Or you can Skype the username MuggleCast. Please eliminate as much background noise as possible and keep your message under 30 seconds. Please also vote for us on Podcast Alley. We have so many community outlets. We’ve got Flickr, MySpace, Photobucket, YouTube, Facebook, all of these. Please come in and join our groups and vote for us in every single place you can. Thank you very much and, Micah, let’s go to your Make the Connection.

Back to Make the Connection

Micah: All right, so did you just want to repeat it for everyone so they know what I’m…

Jamie: Yes, I will. Micah, your connection was between Harry Potter and buying a horse, blinking, and then it’s turned into a bottle of Arizona Iced Tea, flavor of
your choice.

Micah: Okay, first of all, that’s like purchasing an animal, right? And then it becoming an inanimate object, correct? You could view it that way, so just like what you’re saying with the horse and the iced tea, it’s the same thing with Harry when he buys Hedwig and then in Book 7 he blinks and it becomes an inanimate object.

[Everyone laughs]

Show Close

Jamie: Micah, that is superb. That is absolutely superb. I am very, very, very impressed. Excellent stuff! I hope everyone isn’t too gasping at that final thing with Micah. That is the best Make the Connection I think I have ever heard. I’d take my hat off to you, Micah, if I was wearing one. On that note, I’m Jamie Lawrence.

Laura: I’m Laura Thompson.

Micah: And I’m Micah Tannenbaum.

Jamie: [imitating Andrew’s] And I’m Andrew Sims! Whoa! I’ve come back for the end of the show.

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: [imitating Andrew] It’s good to see everyone. Okay, we’ll see you later! Bye bye!

[Show music ends]

Eric’s Preliminary Announcement

Eric: G’day Aussies! That’s right, calling all Australian MuggleCast listeners. Yes, that’s right, we mean you! It’s Eric here, and I’m here to announce something supremely preliminary and not yet official. I had an idea for an event that might be taking place in Melbourne or Sydney, Australia, the weekend of the 12th of October, 2007. Either that Friday or Saturday night I had the idea to do something possibly because I might be in the area. I don’t know where this event is being held, I don’t know what the event will actually be; suffice to say I will be the only MuggleCaster
in attendance.

It certainly won’t be a full panel live podcast, but it is, however, something specifically Australian that would play to all of our MuggleCast fans in
the area. Could be a question and answer session, could be something else entirely, just a fan meet up, we don’t know. But this message is important because I’m trying to find out how many of you Australian listeners could possibly or
potentially make it to the event.

This is extremely short notice as the 12th of October is only three weeks away. Therefore, what we need from you is for you to send an e-mail to us, letting us know if you might be able to make it. The address is mugglecastoz at gmail dot com. That’s M-U-G-G-L-E-C-A-S-T “oz” – o-zed – “oz” – o-zed. Okay,
so mugglecastoz at gmail dot com. Once again mugglecastoz at gmail dot com. MuggleCast and then
o-zed. Okay? All we would need to know is if you would potentially be free on the weekend of the 12th of October, could be that Friday or Saturday, I’m not sure yet. But if you would be available that weekend to come to Melbourne or Sydney and chill with MuggleCast fans. Once we know how many people can make it – and if some can we’re going to try to set something up. There can be no guarantee yet, but there will be soon. We’re all moving quite fast to make this event very planned.

Also, please make a point to check MuggleCast.com for all updates. There is likely to be an update during the following week. Thank you very much, everybody. Cheers!


Laura: Okay, so…

Jamie: I have to go for a piss very quickly. Do you want to carry on and I’ll just catch up, okay?

Laura: Okay, yeah, that’s fine. So… [laughs]

Micah: Can we leave that in?

Laura: Yeah, I think we should.


Episode 114: Hasta La Vista, Harry

  • Emma finishes Ballet Shoes: we discuss the trio filming outside of Potter.
  • Order of the Phoenix DVD release date, but somebody hasn’t seen it in theaters.
  • Our thoughts on Jim Broadbent being cast as Horace Slughorn.
  • Feedback from our live show.
  • Listener Rebuttal: Why did Fred have to die?
  • Main Discussion: Book 1 and Book 7 Parallels.
  • The Little Things.
  • Opening chapters, the Mirror of Erised, King’s Cross and Gringotts.
  • The Men With Two Faces: Quirrell and Snape.
  • Dumbledore’s Ambiguity.
  • Anchor’s to life: Sorcerer’s Stone, Horcruxes and Hallows.
  • Dueling Club featuring Harry, the Terminator and Optimus Prime.
  • Make the Connection is taken to a whole new level.
  • Australians: Listen to the end of the show for a special announcement from Eric!

Download Now

Running time: 1:25:11, 39 MB

Transcript 113 (LIVE, Part 6)

MuggleCast 113 Transcript

Phone Call to Micah

[“Elevation” by U2 plays]

Andrew: Yeah, that’s right, I played “Elevation” again. I was watching in the chat, I’m sure people were going to be complaining about that. Welcome back to MuggleCast Live!

Mikey: MuggleCast Live!

Andrew: 10:30 here on the East Coast. I’m glad Mikey still has some energy.

Mikey: I tried. Kind of hungry again.

Jerry Cooke: Oh, me too.

Andrew: It’s me, Jamie, Jerry, and [pauses] Mikey. I almost forgot your name. And JJ Horgan, a special guest star here on the show.

JJ Horgan: I like that.

Andrew: JJ Horgan is back here. Oh. [laughs] We need to call Micah because – he wanted me to call because he couldn’t be here, and he’s going to be really upset so we’ll get him in the chat and then we’ll carry on with today’s topics at hand here.

[Andrew hums and types on keyboard]

Andrew: Anyway, JJ, what did you want to talk about?

JJ: Okay…

[Phone dial tone starts]

Andrew: While the phone is ringing. Actually, wait one second. [laughs] Sorry!

[Phone dial tone continues]

Andrew: If he doesn’t answer, this is – I ordered my pizza live on the air, JJ.

JJ: Hello?

Andrew: I ordered my pizza live on the air, JJ. That was pretty fun.

JJ: Yeah, I heard [unintelligible] I stopped listening.

Andrew: Oh okay.

[Phone dial tone continues]

Andrew: Geez, and we had Laura Mallory call in, and Dumbledore call in…

[Micah’s voice message plays]

Andrew: And he’s not here. Okay.

Mikey: Wait, wait! Awww, I was going to say let’s leave him a message.

[Jerry laughs]

Andrew: Oh sorry. He’ll call back. I’m sure he’ll call back. All right… [laughs]

Jerry: [unintelligible] hilarious.

Andrew: Go ahead, JJ.

Discussion: Why Didn’t Lily and James Potter Escape Upon Voldemort’s Arrival?

JJ: All right. Well, I was going to try to be organized and put all this stuff together and some well-thought-out statements but then that didn’t happen, so…

Andrew: Really? [laughs]

JJ: Yeah, I know. Surprising, isn’t it?

Andrew: [laughs] Uh-huh.

JJ: Some Harry Potter questions. Now, for the listeners that don’t know about me, JJ Horgan…

[Andrew laughs]

JJ: …I’m definitely a Harry Potter novice, but a casual fan than most. I have some questions about it and hopefully your listeners and maybe even you guys can answer some of my questions. Number one: starting back, not sequentially but chronologically, the whole Harry Potter thing happens, right? Because Harry Potter is the boy that lived, his parents get killed, right?

Andrew: Right.

JJ: And when that whole scene takes place, James is the first one to kick it, right? Voldemort gets him first downstairs or something.

Andrew and Jaime: Yeah.

JJ: And then he comes upstairs to get Lily, right?

Andrew: Yes.

Jaime: Yeah.

JJ: All right. Now, you’re a wizard, you can pretty much do anything. She’s a pretty good wizard, right?

Andrew: Uh-huh.

Jaime: Yeah.

JJ: And one of the convenient things in your bag of tricks is you can make yourself disappear.

[Andrew laughs]

JJ: You can even grab someone and make them disappear too.

Jaime: Ahhh.

JJ: Couldn’t we have avoided seven books about Harry Potter…

[Andrew laughs]

JJ: …if she had just made herself disappear?

Andrew: Dang it, Jamie.

JJ: [unintelligible] has the answer for that.

Jaime: Like in magic – sorry, like in the real world there are degrees of sort of professionalism and degrees of ability. And Voldemort is a master of sort of planning and cunning, and there are ways that he knows that other people do not know. For example, in Book 7 he is able to restrict one person using invisible binds due to his magical ability and because they don’t understand the ability that goes into it, they can’t get themselves out of his bind. So he, I would assume, would cast a spell on that house to stop Lily and James escaping or doing anything to stop him going through with his plan. He’s a psychopath.

JJ: Oh. So it can just be explained like that?

[Andrew laughs]

JJ: He’s a psychopath.

Mikey: He’s a psychopath. He kills people.

JJ: Maybe they should put that in the end notes or something because…

[Andrew laughs]

Jaime: She’s already said he is a psychopath.

Andrew: Yeah, but…

JJ: He could stop people from Apparating just at will?

Jaime: Sorry? I’m sure he can. He can make Hogwarts shake…

Andrew: But…

Jaime: …and anyone who can do that is a master in my book and my strow.

Andrew: And to Apparate, you need to really be focused on where you’re going, right?

JJ: Yeah, but I mean, how many times did we see even in – after the wedding when people are Apparating left and right. I mean, how focused could they have been when the Death Eaters are coming?

Andrew: That’s true. I mean, I was going to say, because…

Jerry: It can be a panic reflex they can’t do it as well, surely.

Andrew: Well yeah, but they…

Jerry: And they can…

Andrew: Yeah.

Jerry: [unintelligible]

Andrew: They could have been all panicking at the wedding too, I guess.

Jerry: Yeah.

Andrew: To what JJ is trying to say. But say you’re Voldemort right into the eye. You can’t possibly Apparate away from that. You want to, but…,

JJ: Well, she tries to keep the door locked, right? Didn’t they say in passing she does something to the door? And he just kind of laughs that off like a joke?

Andrew: I don’t remember that specifically, but…

Jaime: Yes, yes, he did. She put a load of books [laughs] and bookcases and stuff in front of the door and he blasts that off.

JJ: Yeah, come on. Maybe she should have…

[Andrew laughs]

JJ: …concentrated her efforts on Apparating.

Andrew: [laughs] Well…

Jaime: No, no, what she would have done was hid behind the door with a frying pan because although Voldemort is highly…

Andrew: A frying pan?

Jaime: Yeah, he’s not telepathic.

[Jerry laughs]

Jaime: She could have hit him over the head, she could have got him in a headlock and done something to him. There are other ways to…

JJ: She has a wand and you’re saying she should get a frying pan?

[Andrew laughs]

Jaime: No, she can’t duel him on magical ability so she has to find another way.

Andrew: Oh.

Jaime: Perhaps she could seduce him.

Andrew: Yeah.

JJ: So maybe she should have kicked him…

Jaime: In the private area.

JJ: …you know, in the little Voldemort.

[Andrew laughs]

Jaime: You should have written the…

Mikey: In the little Voldemort?

[Andrew laughs]

Mikey: What is that? God.

Andrew: That’s funny. [laughs]

JJ: I hear what you’re saying, Jamie, but in one breath you just said that he can stop people from Apparating just because he’s a psychopath but she should have gotten a frying pan.

Jaime: You don’t know [laughs] the forcefulness behind a woman with a frying pan.

[Andrew laughs]

Jaime: Not that I know, but…

[Jerry laughs]

Andrew: Okay.

Jerry: Yeah.

JJ: It must be a British thing.

[Andrew laughs]

Jaime: What, a frying pan? [laughs]

Jerry: Definitely a British thing.

Andrew: [laughs] So what else…

Jaime: Perhaps she’ll use bacon to…

[Andrew laughs]

JJ: I don’t know, Andrew. Perhaps a caller would like to call in and talk about that. I think I’ve unearthed something pretty significant.

Andrew: Okay. Well, let’s see if someone – here, we have a caller right here. Michelle, do you have anything to add to this discussion?

JJ: Hi, Michelle.

[Prolonged silence]

Andrew: She’s speechless. Okay, let’s try someone else.

JJ: [in a high-pitched voice] Hi, Andrew. It’s me, Michelle.

Andrew: [laughs] Oh, someone called JJ. We’ll have two JJs here. JJ?

Caller: Holy cow, you guys picked up. Hang on.

Andrew: Oh.

Caller: Let me mute my thingy.

Andrew: Okay, thank you. Concerned caller. JJ…

Caller: All right, can you guys hear me?

Andrew: Yeah, JJ, let me introduce you to JJ.

Caller: [laughs] Hey.

Andrew: Were you listening to the discussion at hand?

Caller: Yeah, about the frying pan? About the wand and the frying pan?

JJ: [unintelligible] ten hours.

Caller: Say that again.

[Prolonged silence]

Caller: Can you say that again?

Andrew: Say that again, JJ. Capella.

[Prolonged silence]

Andrew: Repeat.

[Caller laughs]

JJ: [unintelligible] wanted to compliment you guys on this being the best part of the ten and a half hours so far.

Andrew: Oh.

JJ: It’s become riveting once again.

Caller: Yeah.

Andrew: Well, it is riveting, I’ll tell you that.

[Caller laughs]

Andrew: So go ahead, JJ. Caller.

Caller: Which JJ are you talking about now, Andrew?

Andrew: You. I’ll refer to you as…

Caller: JJ 1.

Andrew: …JJ 2. I’ll refer to you as the real JJ.

Caller: Okay.

Andrew: [laughs] Go ahead.

Caller: Wow, I’m actually kind of surprised you guys picked up because this is officially my second time on the show because way back when you guys picked up I’m from Alpharetta.

Andrew: Oh okay. Yeah.

Caller: Remember?

Andrew: Right.

Caller: Not really? That’s cool.

Andrew: No, no, I remember it.

Caller: Okay, so I was listening at the very beginning of the morning and then I finally got back from my audition all day. And I wanted to ask you, Andrew, have you guys talked about Steve Jobs reducing the iPhone by $200?

Andrew: Now, wait a second…

Mikey: Wait, wait, wait, I can’t talk about Apple products at all.

[Andrew laughs]

Caller: I had to ask it, Andrew.

Andrew: [laughs] Mikey just jumps right in.

Caller: So I’m so sorry.

Mikey: Guys, I’m going to have to leave.

Andrew: There’s no reason to fret, because Steve Jobs handed me a hundred dollars the other day.

Caller: There you go. There you go.

Andrew: Those two days. I was very happy about that.

[Caller laughs]

Andrew: But do you want to add to this discussion we’re talking about right now? Do you have anything to add?

Caller: Sure, I’ll add. Okay, give me a little recap again. Sorry, I’m so excited to be on the show. Give me a little twenty-second recap.

Andrew: Well, basically real JJ is saying that Lily could have just Apparated. Or sorry, the first JJ is saying Lily could have just Apparated when Voldemort came up to kill her and Harry.

Caller: Okay…

Andrew: Would you agree with this or what?

Caller: Well, would she have taken her kid? Like, would she have taken Harry with her?

Andrew: Well, you would assume so.

Caller: Okay.

JJ: [unintelligible] this whole time

Caller: I would have done it. Sorry, dude, if I had the chance of Apparating out of my own house with my own kid – like as a girl, I would have done it.

Andrew: No, no, but we’re saying, why didn’t she?

Caller: Why didn’t she? Maybe she just felt really compelled to stand her ground because the guy just murdered her husband. I don’t know.

JJ: Oh, that’s a good…

Andrew: Oh, that is a good answer, yeah. Plus it’s her house that Voldemort is in, you know?

Mikey: I don’t think…

Caller: I mean, maybe she was just like, “Dude, this is my area. Get the heck out of my house. You can’t do this. You just can’t walk into my house and try to kill my son without putting up with me first.”

Andrew: Fair point. Rebuttal?

Caller: There you go.

Andrew: JJ 1?

JJ: No, that’s pretty legit.

Andrew: [laughs] Okay.

[Caller laughs]

JJ: That’s a better answer than the frying pan.

[Andrew and Caller laugh]

Andrew: Definitely.

Jaime: Less practical.

JJ: Very well thought out, JJ.

Caller: Well, why would Harry have a frying pan in his bedroom, JJ 1?

Andrew: No, that point…

Mikey: You guys, come on. I know why.

Andrew: That point was risen by Jamie, actually.

Caller: Sorry, Jamie.

Mikey: Guys, he has a frying pan in his room because…

Jaime: No, I think it’s extremely a bit sort of close minded to ask why he wouldn’t. You should be asking why he would. He could very well have one because something happened as a child, even though he was a child, and he liked frying pans for some reason. Or he was – okay, I can’t think of anything. This is – [laughs] I’m so tired.

Caller: Okay, Jamie, I can play devil’s advocate and think on this one with you. Okay?

Andrew: Go for it.

Caller: Do you want to hear my little rebuttal?

Jaime: Please.

Caller: Okay.

Jaime: I’ll buy you something nice.

[Caller laughs]

Andrew: You have good audio whereas Jamie is incapable of…

[Caller laughs]

Jaime: Yes, Andrew.

Andrew: …having consistently loud audio. [laughs]

Caller: Okay. Well…

Jaime: I’m sorry, my computer turned it down for me…

[Andrew and Caller laugh]

Jaime: …and I can’t do anything about it.

Caller: Okay. Well, to help your theory with the frying pan, Jamie, I’m reading this book right now, Like Water for Chocolate, Laura Esquivel, I think that’s how she pronounced her name. Well anyways, in the book the little baby – [laughs] well, the baby in this book, to stay with her real mother, Tita the main character…

Jaime: Yeah.

Caller: …has to have a frying pan with food in her bedroom to get her used to her mother.

Jaime: That is so true. That is exactly what happened in Harry Potter as well.

[Caller laughs]

Andrew: Okay. Well, that’s just silly.

[Caller laughs]

Andrew: Silly, Andrew? Silly? Are you denouncing someone else’s carefully-written book silly?

[Caller laughs]

Andrew: Well, thank you, JJ, for calling in.

Caller: No problem, Andrew. Pleasure to be on the show as always.

Andrew: Thank you. You win as always. As always.

[Andrew and Caller laugh]

Andrew: Just kidding.

Caller: Bye, dude. [laughs]

Andrew: Bye.

Jaime: Goodbye.

Caller: Bye.

Jaime: I like that person.

Andrew: What were you saying, JJ 1?

JJ: Just reminding all the callers to vote Andrew Sims in the sixth movie.

Andrew: [laughs] Okay.

JJ: Andrew Sims for the sixth movie.

Mikey: Oh yeah, how is that poll going? How far down am I?

Andrew: Oh yeah, let’s check it out. Jamie is winning, I’m in second place, Mikey’s in third, and Ben’s got a close fourth.

Mikey: Woah, you mean I’m actually above Ben? That surprises me.

Andrew: Yeah.

Discussion: Which Character Would You Want to Play in the Harry Potter Films?

JJ: Can I throw out another question here?

Andrew: Yeah, go ahead. And Chloe is on the line now. I think she would be a good person to fight and…

JJ: Well, Chloe can…

Caller: Hi.

JJ: Hi, Chloe.

Andrew: Hi. Oh, and we lost a connection. I’ll call her back. But go ahead, explain.

JJ: Well, Chloe can maybe get on it when you pick this back up, but I’ll pose this and it’s probably something you’ve been told before, but let’s assume that because of your massive Harry Potter hand that you can get you and all your buddies into the next movie.

Andrew: [laughs] Why do you keep bringing this up?

JJ: What part do you want to play?

Andrew: Umm…

JJ: This is a good question for a Harry Potter fan. If you could be in the movie, where do you see yourself?

Jaime: A tree.

Andrew: No, I wouldn’t…

[Mikey laughs]

Andrew: Honestly – that’s kind of a good question. If we were to be in the Harry Potter movies…

Caller: Hi, I’m actually calling as part of the discussion tonight.

Andrew: Okay. Well, hold on one second.

Caller: Okay.

Andrew: This is actually a good question. If we were all offered a part in the movie, which part would we take?

[Jamie and Mikey respond]

Andrew: One at a time now. One at a time now.

Mikey: I want to be part of the Order. That’s what I really would want.

Andrew: Yeah.

JJ: Do you have a specific character in mind?

Andrew: Yeah.

Mikey: Well, if I had to be a specific character, I want to be Harry. But… [laughs]

JJ: Come on, let’s be realistic.

Mikey: No, realistic – I would just like to be an Order member, like we saw some random characters fighting or whatever. Or just a student in the DA, you know what I mean?

Jaime: Yeah.

Mikey: Like who was Nigel? You know what I mean? Give me a random character: Mikey B, who knows?

[Jamie and Mikey laugh]

Mikey: I would love to just have a wand and be like, stick it to the man, stick it to the Death Eaters.

Andrew: A lot of people in the chat are saying Jamie would be great for Teddy Lupin, but that’s not…

Jaime: I don’t think that would work.

Andrew: Yeah.

Mikey: [laughs] I think Alex would be a great Teddy Lupin!

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah!

Mikey: Alex Carpenter from The Remus Lupins, he would be a perfect Teddy Lupin. Just have a quick pan shot of him making out with some girl.

[Jamie and Mikey laugh]

Mikey: He would hate that.

Andrew: I’m going to be lame and say if I had to pick – God, I can’t think of what other role I’d be able to do besides Harry.

Jaime: Slughorn.

Andrew: I couldn’t be Hagrid or Dumbledore. But I mean, at my age. Well, I guess – okay.

JJ: You could be a young Dumbledore.

Andrew: Yeah, if…

JJ: Don’t forget, there’s a young Dumbledore…

[Jamie laughs]

JJ: …in the seventh book.

Andrew: Okay, that’s true. I’ll say…

JJ: Or Dumbledore’s buddy that he duels with because that guy…

Andrew: Grindelwald?

Jaime: Oh, Grindelwald?

JJ: Yeah.

Mikey: Oh, I would love to be Grindelwald. That would be so cool to be a young Grindelwald.

JJ: Ahhh, see? You don’t need to think about teenage…

Mikey: I didn’t even think about it. Wow.

[JJ laughs]

Mikey: Oh, can I be a young Kingsley Shacklebolt? [laughs] I love Shacklebolt. I’m sorry, guys.

Jaime: [laughs] Shacklebolt.

Andrew: Somebody said Andrew for director.

[Jerry laughs]

Andrew: I think I’ll take that instead.

Jerry: Andrew for Ariana Dumbledore. [laughs]

JJ: What do you think, Andrew? Slughorn for me?

Andrew: Slughorn? Actually – well, Slughorn would be good. I would also put you in the Hagrid category.

JJ: Oh, that’s a compliment.

Andrew: No, no. [laughs] No, I’m just saying. I think you’d – never mind. Slughorn, yeah. Slughorn would be great for you. Or how about…

JJ: Hagrid is kind of a giant. I think Slughorn is just a giant waste of space.

Andrew: [laughs] Well…

JJ: [unintelligible] I think I can play that really well.

Andrew: [laughs] Okay, yeah.

JJ: I don’t have visions of grandeur like other people.

Andrew: Nick – Brandon just IM’d me. He said…

Jaime: Andrew for Harry, yeah.

Andrew: …I should be Harry Potter. He still said on the fact that I have the Harry accent which I don’t understand. But thanks, Brandon.

Jerry: “I’m Harry Potter!”

Andrew: Yeah. Okay…

Jaime: Mikey…

Andrew: …so another thing – go ahead, Jamie.

Jaime: I was just going to say, Mikey, someone in the chatroom said that Mikey B should play Mikey B. Apparently there’s a character I missed called Mikey B.

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah.

Jerry: You missed that? If you were reading…

Jaime: Well, I heard he was badass, dude, but I can’t remember him.

Mikey: Because this is what happened is his wand work is just so fast. He’s Mikey B! His wand work is just like [makes dueling noises] round, like…

[Jamie laughs]

Mikey: You guys are totally missing me. My arms are flailing, I’m making sound effects right now. [laughs] It would be so amazing to have a Mikey B character. I’m sorry.

Jaime: No, you see, Mikey, I don’t think you’d use your wand, I think you’d just talk to Voldemort. He’d try and kill you, and you’d be like, “Dude.”

Mikey: “Dude, seriously, relax. Chill.”

Jaime: “What are we doing here, guys?”

Mikey: “What are we doing here?” Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah.

Mikey: I would use logic because again, I’m a lover, not a fighter. I’m a lover, not a fighter.

Jaime: [laughs] There’d be like, [imitating Mikey B] “I’m Voldemort. I’m Mikey B. I’m Voldy. I’m Voldy M.”

Andrew: Okay. Well, let’s get back to the…

Mikey: Voldy M, really? Sorry, Andrew.

Andrew: One more burning topic, JJ. Then we’ll move on.

JJ: I think Chloe wants to…

Caller: I just want to say really quickly – yeah.

Andrew: [laughs] What, Chloe?

Caller: [laughs] I just want to say personally I’d want to be any character that gets to make out with Rupert Grint, but that might just be me.

Andrew: Oh my God. Yeah, I know what you mean.

Mikey: I want to be Lav-Lav.

[Caller laughs]

Mikey: I want to be Lav-Lav, guys. I want to be Lav-Lav.

[Andrew laughs]

Mikey: Really. Lav-Lav.

Caller: Yeah. I have some friends who are like, “Yeah, you should totally go for that.”

Andrew: All right, so JJ?

JJ: Oh, I’m sorry. [laughs] I forget.

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]

Caller: Shock because… [unintelligible]

MuggleCast 113 Transcript (continued)

Discussion: The Weasleys’ Relationship with the Potters

JJ: All right, I actually did come up with a couple of things. All right, here’s something weird: Harry meets the Weasleys, right, in Book 1?

Andrew: Mhm.

JJ: They completely ran upon him, and he goes back to their house and stuff? And you probably talked about this in an old episode of MuggleCast. How come they’re not like, “Hey, we did know your parents. We were in an order with them. We used to hang out.”

[Andrew laughs]

JJ: It’s kind of like they’re meeting him for the first time, they don’t know anything about him, and they never bring up the fact that they used to really hang out with their parents. Kind of random.

Andrew: Umm.

JJ: Jamie “Frying Pans”, something you got to say about that?

[Andrew and Jerry laugh]

Jaime: I – hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Yes, I do believe that they’re such nice people they would not dare to bring up such an emotional subject straight away and would rather keep it quiet for a while.

Andrew: Actually, a lot of people are bringing up the point that they weren’t in the Order at first.

Jaime: Yeah, yeah!

[Andrew laughs]

Caller: Yeah, didn’t they come in second time around?

Andrew: Yeah…

Jerry: I don’t know… [unintelligible]

Andrew: …they weren’t in the Order the first time around.

JJ: They weren’t good enough?

[Andrew laughs]

JJ: But then there’s [unintelligible] because they show pictures.

Jerry: Yeah.

JJ: In the sixth or seventh book, there’s a picture, right? In Sirius’s house that he finds? The Weasleys are in it somewhere or somebody gives him a picture. Or am I wrong?

Andrew: That’s true, isn’t it?

JJ: There’s a picture with the Weasleys, and if I have to go upstairs and find the book, so help me I will.

[Andrew laughs]

Mikey: The Prewetts are in it.

Jaime: Oh, but JJ, you can’t take those pictures as anything more than nice illustrations.

Mikey: I don’t…

Andrew: Well no, a lot of people…

JJ: No, I don’t think it’s an actual picture in the book. I mean they reference having a picture…

Jerry: A description.

Jaime: Oh, I see.

JJ:[unintelligible] and the Potters.

Caller: Did they really?

Jaime: Are you sure you…

JJ: Did I just make that up?

Jaime: I think you might…

Jerry: Lots of people are saying…

Andrew: Yeah, a lot of people are…

Jerry: …that they were in there, but Molly’s brother or somebody’s brother was in it.

Andrew: Oh okay.

Jerry: Some relation of the Weasleys.

Andrew: Okay. Well, fair enough.

Jerry: Need to check it.

Andrew: So yeah, not too accurate about that. [laughs]

Jaime: It was a good test, though. Well done.

Andrew: Yeah.

JJ: So was I wrong?

Andrew: I think you were wrong, yes.

JJ: I’m going to prove myself right.

[Andrew laughs]

JJ: That’s my goal before you’re done in the next hour.

Andrew: Okay. [laughs] All right. Well, let’s take some other callers now because people are still…

Caller: [laughs] I think you guys have seen enough of me for one night.

Andrew: Yeah, we have, Chloe. All I want is your ticket.

Caller: [laughs] I know. Actually, I’m…

Jerry: Actually use her.

Andrew: Remember, I’ll take – no, I’m not using her. I’m just saying.

[Jerry laughs]

Andrew: If you want to offer me your ticket, that’s cool.

Caller: Yeah, I’m dealing with some moral issues with that right now. My mom is trying to get me to donate it to charity, so…

Andrew: Donate it to charity? How about the charity of Andrew Sims?

Caller: [laughs] The Andrew Sims Charity.

Andrew: Yeah.

Jerry: It’s a worthy cause.

Andrew: Donate it to me.

Caller: Yeah.

Andrew: Okay well, thank you for calling, Chloe.

Caller: Definitely.

Andrew: And we’ll talk to you…

Caller: Oh, before I go…

Andrew: What? Shout-out to who?

Caller: [laughs] Well, you know this person now so I have to.

Andrew: Okay.

Caller: I’ve been talking to her the entire time, Sam Friedman.

Andrew: [laughs] Oh geez.

Caller: She’s just like, “God, when are you going to mention me?” so it’s about time.

Andrew: Well, she’s at work right now so unfortunately – yeah.

Caller: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah.

Caller: All right, cool. So have a good night.

Jaime: Thank you. Buh-bye!

Caller: I’m turning in.

Andrew: All right. Goodnight!

Caller: [laughs] Bye!

Jerry: 99.

Jaime: Okay, before we move on I haven’t named a vegetable for this hour, so the vegetable for this hour are peas.

Andrew: Peas? Okay.

Mikey: Snow peas or just normal peas?

Jaime: Your choice, really. I’m easy.

Listener Calls: Future Wizard Rock Singles by Andrew, Pickle Pack

Andrew: Nora, you’re on MuggleCast Live. What’s up?

Caller: Hi.

Andrew: How are you doing?

Caller: Hold on, let me mute my thing.

Andrew: Thank you.

Caller: Okay, so I have a message for you guys from my good friend Elsy who is not allowed to have Skype.

Andrew: Okay.

Caller: And she wants to say she wants to thank you guys for MuggleCast and for Pickle Pack because she’s made a lot of good friends through it and Andrew, she wants to know if you have another wizard rock single coming out.

Andrew: Okay, hold on.

[Talking in the background]

Andrew: Hi. Hey, how are you doing? Anyway, what – sorry. No, I don’t have any more wizard rock singles coming out. That’s something that I’m not working on right now. I appreciate your interest, however I’m not working on any right now.

Caller: Okay.

Andrew: However, since JJ is on the line I will say he’s written up some new lyrics for me. They’re a little too inappropriate for public release though.

Jaime: [laughs] I can imagine they are.

Andrew: Yeah.

Jaime: Can I see them? [laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, I’d love to show them to you but…

Caller: [laughs] All right, and I have another question: For Pickle Pack, since just everyone has had a date switch, are you guys ever going to change the links on the sidebar?

Andrew: Yeah, we’re going to work on that. I’ve got to e-mail the coder.

Caller: Okay, because we’re getting really confused lately.

Andrew: Oh okay. Well yeah, sorry about that.

Caller: That’s okay. And we also want to say that you guys should go to Portus because that’s where all the fun is going to be this summer.

Mikey: I’m probably going to be there.

[Andrew laughs]

Caller: So you should definitely go to Portus. There are going to be a bunch of us there and…

Andrew: Yeah. Well, I’m sure there will be a lot of people there.

Caller: Mostly lots of Vultures, so…

Andrew: We actually have a very big MuggleCast fan who works for Portus, Prophecy, and all that. So yeah, we’ll see.

Caller: And my friend Alyssa whose Skype name is Rayne – R-A-Y-N-E-05 – she lives in Norway and it’s really late there and she’s sick and she’s been staying up all night calling you guys, and she really, really wants to talk to you guys.

Andrew: Awww.

Caller: So if you give her a call and if you could answer, she would love it. You should see Alyssa that they had Jamie say “I love you” to.

Andrew: Oh okay.

Caller: So she really wants to talk to you guys.

Andrew: Well, what’s her Skype name?

Caller: Rayne. R-A-Y-N-E-05.

Andrew: Okay. All right, thanks for calling.

Caller: Thank you.

Andrew: Oops, I cut her off. Man, I’m so bad at this!

[Jerry laughs]

Mikey: It’s that button. Guess what I’m eating, guys? I have watermelon.

Listener Calls: If Harry Was a Girl

Andrew: It’s too easy. Darn, now I lost her name. Let’s take another call here. Let’s see who’s calling. Casey Carter. Casey Carter, hello.

Caller: Hi!

Andrew: How are you doing today?

Caller: I’m pretty good.

Andrew: Good.

Caller: I’ve been calling since 12:00…

Andrew: Wow.

Caller: …and I’m really excited. [laughs]

Andrew: Awww. Well, thank you for waiting.

Caller: [laughs] Thank you.

Andrew: What’s going on?

Caller: Not much. Just hanging out. I’ve kind of had a question for a while ago.

Andrew: For what?

Caller: I’ve got a question for a while that I’ve been wanting to ask.

Andrew: Okay.

[Prolonged silence]

Andrew: Darn it.

[Mouse clicking noises in the background]

Andrew: Sorry about that, I screwed up. Continue.

Caller: [laughs] Okay.

Laura: Hey.

Andrew: Hey. Hold on.

[Mouse clicking noises in the background]

Andrew: Sorry. Try one more time. I’m really sorry. [laughs]

Caller: Okay. It’s okay.

Andrew: I’m trying to get Laura back in and it keeps putting everyone else on hold while I put everyone in here. So okay, go ahead. I’m listening now.

Caller: I was just – I wanted to ask a question, what you guys thought.

Andrew: Okay.

Caller: Do you think that Snape would have been nicer to Lily and James’s child if they had a girl that looked just like Lily?

Mikey: Woah, woah.

Jerry: Probably.

Mikey: That brings up a whole lot of weird…

[Jerry laughs]

Andrew: Well, that’s interesting because I mean, what would the girl think? [laughs] Well, I see what Mikey is thinking. But…

Mikey: Well, come on. I don’t think so. I think he would – I don’t know, maybe.

Jerry: You could write exactly the same story with a female lead.

Andrew: See…

Jerry: Harry could have been Harriet. I mean…

Mikey: Yeah, but see, the problem is, though – the reason he hates Harry so much is because it’s always a constant reminder that lost to James because he looks so much like James.

Andrew: Right.

Mikey: If he looked like Lily, you think how much he cared about Lily and kind of like – I think Jamie said it best when he was talking about – it was kind of weird him sitting in the bushes looking at Lily, spying. Can you imagine having a little Lily running around…

Andrew: Yeah.

Mikey: …and him being a teacher for? I think it would be awkward and kind of gross, but maybe my mind is just set up that way.

Caller: [laughs] Yeah.

Mikey: I’m sorry.

Andrew: See, the thing is though, Harry has Lily’s eyes. So wouldn’t that be the same thing as Harry being a girl and looking like Lily? Because he does look like Lily. He has Lily’s eyes. Not exactly, but would a female Harry look like Lily either?

Caller: I don’t know.

JJ: He looked more like his father and they made a big deal about that, and Snape really hated his father, right?

Andrew and Mikey: Yeah.

Andrew: Oh, that’s true.

JJ: [unintelligible] accurate. Like, they clearly state he looked more like his father.

Andrew: Yeah.

Mikey: Yeah. So again, that’s what my point is. He hates Harry because it’s a constant reminder of how much him and James fought. And it’s always the joke – they always say, “I thought you could have put this behind you, Severus.” Blah blah blah blah blah. All that sort of stuff. But…

Jaime: I always thought – I agree on that, but I would say it’s also – he also hates Harry because Harry is the reason the woman he loves is dead as well, basically.

Mikey: Yeah, but honestly, if the lead in Harry Potter, instead of it being Harry, the guy Harry we know, that looked like James, with Lily’s eyes, and was a Lily lookalike with James’s eyes – because it looked so much like Lily, I think it would be a constant reminder and he’d resent that.

Jaime: Yeah, that’s true.

Mikey: But I don’t think he would be able to bring himself to actually treat her the way he treated Harry because it wasn’t the body of somebody he hated, it was someone that he loved. You know what I mean? Like, he hated James and because he hated James it was so easy to hate Harry, even though when he looked at Harry he was still able to see Lily. If he looked at a female Harry and he saw Lily, even though he would hate it because of James and maybe this is the reason that Lily died, I don’t think he’d ever bring himself to really hate a female Harry as much as he’d hate the male Harry. So…

Andrew: I guess that’s a good point.

Caller: Yeah.

Mikey: And again, it’s not being like a double standard, if it’s a boy or girl. I think it’s just the way – because Snape is a guy.

Andrew: Yeah.

Mikey: Now, if you put a female character there, the teacher, and it was a girl, then because there’s none of that animosity of loving the character that it looks like – you know what I mean?

Andrew: Yeah.

Mikey: I think then it would work. But since Snape was a guy and a female Harry would look just like the person that he loved, even though yes, it’s twenty years younger and all that stuff, it would still remind him of his past when he was a little kid and in love with her. And even if – when I said that’s kind of gross, even if nothing like that happened, I don’t think he’d bring himself to be a complete jerk to a female Harry like he was a male Harry.

Andrew: Right.

Caller: Yup.

Andrew: Okay.

Caller: Yeah, I agree.

Andrew: Fair point. Well, thank you, Casey, for calling in!

Caller: Can I just…

Andrew: Do a shout-out?

Caller: …give a shout-out?

Andrew: Oh, of course. [laughs]

Caller: I’d like to give a shout-out to Avalon in the AIM chat. They’re all telling me to.

Andrew: Okay.

Caller: And people are asking, what’s Jamie’s favorite Pokemon?

[Andrew laughs]

Mikey: [imitating Charizard] “Charizard!”

Jaime: Well, Charizard was very cool [laughs] but…

[Caller laughs]

Jaime: …I think – this is an extremely tough question that should really require hours and hours of analytical thought and discussion…

Caller: Of course.

Jaime: …and involve arguing, but as a…

Mikey: [poorly imitating Squirtle] “Squirtle!”

Jaime: Well, Squirtle was a bit weak and a bit sort of poncy, but – [laughs] actually that’s not true. He was very, very cool and he evolved into a beast! But I like Mew a lot, I must say, just because he’s sort of epiphanized innocence and goodness and all that kind of thing. And I love the battle between Mew and Mewtwo. However, I think my absolute favorite would have to be Lugia, who is known as the guardian of the sea. I’m not sad, by the way, I just know this stuff. He was in Pokemon: The Movie 2000 and he was so powerful, he had to swim on the ocean’s floor to stop…

Andrew: [sighs] What a dork. What a dork. What a dork.

Mikey: Hey Jamie…

[Caller laughs]

Jaime: Andrew, what movie have you seen recently? Hairspray?

Andrew: Yeah, I’m a big fan of Hairspray. It’s…

Jaime: Really? I’m a big fan of Pokemon.

Andrew: Oh really? Well…

Mikey: Guys…

Andrew: Okay, that’s cool, I guess.

Mikey: Guys, I need to give a shout-out and the only reason is…

Andrew: [laughs] Okay. Thank you, Casey, for calling.

Mikey: I need to give a shout-out.

Andrew: Yeah.

Mikey: I went to the SPoT chatroom. Guys, I went to the SPoT chatroom, that S-P-lowercase o-T chatroom.

Andrew: Uh-huh.

Mikey: And I have to give a big shout-out to them because someone wrote there “Boomshakalaka.”

[Andrew laughs]

Mikey: Give it up for bringing Boomshakalaka back! I’m going to start saying “Boomshakalaka,” really. It’s like, Boomshakalaka!

[Andrew laughs]

Mikey: Mikey B! Mikey B says Boomshakalaka!

Andrew: Thank God you have energy.

Jaime: Mikey, have you had any e-mails yet?

Mikey: Hey, I just – you know what? Leslie just brought me some watermelon and…

Jaime: Ooh.

Mikey: If you guys don’t know, Leslie is my girlfriend. She’s here with me. And she brought me some watermelon and watermelon is pretty tasty, I must say.

Jaime: It is.

Mikey: And come on, Boomshakalaka!

[Andrew laughs]

Jaime: Mikey, have you had any e-mails with “Mikey B!” impersonations yet?

Mikey: Yeah, I got a few. I got a few. Seriously, send your “Mikey B”…

Jaime: Any decent ones or have they been done before?

Mikey: Send your “Mikey B” e-mails, people. Wait, what? Sorry, I wasn’t paying attention, I was talking.

Jaime: Have they been done before or are they – any original ones?

Mikey: No, there is one. I sent you one on Skype, a link to one, where this person is singing in harmony and it’s like, [singing in ascending scales] “Mikey, Mikey, Mikey!” And then all of a sudden it goes, [sings in a deep voice] “B!”

Mikey’s Tattoo, Prophecy

Andrew: Oh yeah. Melanie, hi. You’re live on the show.

Caller: Hey!

Mikey: Hi, Melanie.

Andrew: Hey!

Jerry: Hey, Mel.

Andrew: How are you doing?

Caller: Mikey and Jerry, what’s up?

[Jerry laughs]

Andrew: Now, wait a second. Jerry addressed Melanie as “Mel,” meaning that I think they know each other.

Caller: Ahhh, no. No, we don’t.

[Jerry laughs]

Andrew: Okay, whatever.

Jerry: Okay, we don’t.

Mikey: Anyway, hi!

Andrew: Hey, Mel. Hey, nickname.

Caller: It’s “South Jersey” Melanie.

Andrew: Oh yeah, I know. I know.

[Caller laughs]

Andrew: I really get offended. People are like…

Mikey: Hey!

Andrew: …”Remember me?” Yeah, I remember you! Why wouldn’t I?

[Caller laughs]

Andrew: Like Melanie, she said that last time I met you wherever…

Mikey: Melanie was one of the first people to see my tattoo done.

Andrew: Why, was she in California?

Mikey: She was at California. She was at The Remus Lupins show that night.

Andrew: Why were you in California? How did you end up out there?

Mikey: Oh, actually no. I got my…

Caller: No, no, my friend Grace, she invited me to California with her and then we weren’t doing anything that night and we’re like, “Oh look, Alex is playing a show,” so we went and we saw the show. It was fun.

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah right, you had that planned for months!

Mikey: Wait, wait…

Andrew: Whatever.

[Caller laughs]

Mikey: Melanie, that was the night I played saxophone with The Remus Lupins, right?

Caller: Yeah!

Mikey: Yeah, I played saxophone with them.

Andrew: Mikey just wanted to throw in there that he [laughs] played saxophone with them.

Jaime: [laughs] Yeah, yeah.

Mikey: Yeah, yeah, I kind of did. I’m sorry.

Jaime: That was the night they closed that billion dollar deal and made five billion pounds.

Andrew: Yeah.

Mikey: Yeah.

Andrew: “I did that thing with those prestigious people.”

Mikey: That thing with the rock and roll band. You know, what can I say?

[Loud beep noise]

Andrew: Owww. Okay.

Caller: But Andrew, I was so confused. You recognized me because I looked so different. I mean, I was wearing pajamas and I had Rita sunglasses on and I had…

Andrew: Was that at Prophecy?

[Loud beep noise]

Andrew: Okay, stop hitting the numbers on your phone. Where was that, Prophecy?

Caller: Yeah, it was the pajama contest.

Andrew: Right, right.

[Caller laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, why wouldn’t I – if I know someone, I know someone.

[Jerry laughs]

Andrew: I recognize their facial features and their physical attributes. Stuff like that.

[Caller laughs]

Andrew: So yeah, okay. So why did you call in today?

Caller: I have no idea.

Andrew: [laughs] Okay. Well…

[Jerry laughs]

Caller: I kept telling Mikey I would listen to MuggleCast again and I hadn’t actually done it.

Andrew: Again? You mean you stopped?

Caller: What? Jen? No, Jen didn’t make me stop.

Andrew: No, no, no, I said “Again?”

Caller: [laughs] Oh.

Andrew: Whatever. Never mind.

[Jerry laughs]

Andrew: I’m confused.

Caller: [laughs] I thought you said – I’m sorry, my brother and my friend are laughing hysterically in the room and I really don’t want to say why they’re laughing, so… [laughs]

Andrew: Oh okay.

Caller: [laughs] No, stop, stop! No, but – oh no, I just got busy and stuff, and things got crazy, so yeah.

Andrew: Okay. Well, thank you for that. Thank you for calling.

Caller: Hi to Chloe and Jacky, by the way.

Andrew: Yeah, shout-out! Woo! I’m just messing with you because I know you.

Caller: Oh, and Iki if she’s listening.

Andrew: Okay.

Jerry: Yay, Iki! Woo!

Mikey: Hi!

[Caller laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, see, Jerry, you do know these people. Thanks for calling in, Melanie.

Mikey: I know…

Jerry: She did name-drop Rita, the lovely Rita, my Facebook wife.

Mikey: Oh, is that Rita Gill we’re talking about?

Jerry: Yeah, yeah.

Jaime: Your Facebook wife.

Jerry: Yes.

MuggleCast 113 Transcript (continued)

Who the Girl Is in Andrew and Jamie’s “Relationship”?

Andrew: Jamie, remember when you and I used to be in a relationship on Facebook?

[Jerry laughs]

Jaime: Oh, I do, yes. That was ages ago!

Mikey: I’m in a relationship with you, Jamie, on Facebook.

Andrew: I only bring that up because there’s rumors in the Ustream chat right now that Jamie and I have something going on.

Jerry: Jamdrew.

Mikey: Ooh.

[Andrew and Jerry laugh]

Andrew: Yeah.

Mikey: Awww.

[Jerry and Mikey laugh]

Andrew: Allison, hi.

[Prolonged silence]

Andrew: Allison, hi.

Caller: Hi.

Andrew: You’re live on MuggleCast. What’s going on?

Caller: Hi. Hold on, let me turn off my thing.

Andrew: Thank you. I love all these concerned people.

Jaime: Andrew, can I just say, I’m extremely concerned that in this chat, I’m the girlfriend.

[Caller laughs]

Jaime: I’m the female in this relationship.

Jerry: Well, you are feminine. [laughs]

Mikey: Since when did Jamie become a female?

Andrew: JJ, what do you think? Who’s the girl in this relationship?

Jaime: It’s clearly Andrew, isn’t it?

Jerry: Who wears the trousers?

Mikey: Well, come on, guys…

JJ: Why are you referring to me to answer…

Mikey: …Andrew is the one that liked Hairspray how many times?

Andrew: Because I know you’ll side with me, JJ. [laughs]

JJ: Yeah, I think we both need to look into our closets to see who has more sweater vests.

[Andrew and Jamie laugh]

JJ: [unintelligible] right, Jamie?

Jaime: Yes, I agree.

Andrew: [laughs] Well, I’ll say right now I did buy one last week. Bought a new one last week.

Jerry: I think the chat is a bit torn about…

Andrew: I admit to it.

Jerry: That should be a poll.

Andrew: I bought a sweater vest. I like the sweater vest. Sorry.

JJ: It takes a [unintelligible] person to be able to pull off the sweater vest.

Caller: It must look amazing on you, Andrew.

Andrew: Oh, thank you, Allison. So anyway, what are you calling in about today?

Caller: Well, I really wanted to be on MuggleCast because it’s been kind of my life’s dream since I saw it.

Andrew: Really?

Jaime: Since you were born.

Andrew: That’s awesome.

Caller: I love it a lot.

Andrew: Oh good, glad to hear you enjoy it.

Caller: And so…

Andrew: Oh God, damn it.

[Prolonged silence]

Andrew: [laughs] I am really going crazy right now, I’m sorry. I’m trying to get Laura in this conversation, I just put everyone on hold and hung up on the caller. So, that was…

JJ: [unintelligible]

Jerry: The next poll will be: Who’s the girl, Jamie or Andrew?

Andrew: That’s a good poll question.

Jerry: Yeah.

Mikey: Who’s the girl in the relationship?

Jerry: Who’s the girl, Jamie or Andrew? New poll.

Andrew: Okay. Let me try to get this caller back. I feel bad now.

Mikey: If I was in this contest I would be the man no matter what. If it was like Jamie or Andrew. Okay, I’m stopping.

Andrew: Yeah, I actually don’t think you win. Here’s someone who…

Mikey: Huh?! [laughs]

Andrew: Karen!

Caller: Hi!

Jerry: I love Karen.

Andrew: How are you doing?

[Callers squeal]

Jerry: Karen is amazing. Karen designed my desktop wallpaper.

Andrew: What’s going on?

Caller: Hi!

Andrew: Hey, are you excited to be on or something?

Mikey: It sounds like there’s more than one person there.

Caller: Hi, this is Karen and Diana.

Caller 2: Hi!

[Jerry laughs]

Andrew: Hi! How are you doing today?

Jaime: Hey!

Caller: Wait, I turned it off so we can’t hear them.

Andrew: [laughs] You hear us now?

Caller: Hey!

Andrew: Hi! How are you doing?

Caller: Hey, this is Karen from the MuggleCast Fan Forums.

Andrew: What’s going on?

[Callers laugh]

Caller: We’ve just been trying all day, yeah.

Andrew: What?

Jerry: They’ve been trying all day.

Andrew: Oh, you’ve been trying all day. Sorry. Well, I’m glad you got through. What’s on your mind? What do you want to talk about?

Caller: Umm, we never really planned it.

[Callers laugh]

Jaime: Anything you want. Anything that’s on your mind.

Caller: Wait, is Jerry here?

Andrew: Who?

Jerry: I am.

JJ: Yeah, I’m right here.

[Andrew laughs]

Caller: Oh, hi. I’ve been talking to you on Facebook for the past day.

Jerry: Really? Can I just say, Karen rocks. She designed a super amazing wallpaper for Fandom ForeCast. So lots of love to Karen.

Jaime: Awww.

Andrew: Very cool.

Caller: Okay…

Andrew: Karen, you’re just the best.

Jerry: Using it right now.

Andrew: All right. Well, Karen, you fail. You don’t have a question so we’re going to try to take some other calls.

Mikey: Awww, don’t say that.

Andrew: No, I mean that nicely. I mean that nicely.

Mikey: Karen, truthfully, don’t worry. Andrew fails at life. He knows he doesn’t have one already so it’s all right, you win.

JJ: Andrew, can we give her a question?

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, go…

Mikey: Give her a question?

Andrew: Good question – [laughs] I mean good question about the question.

Mikey: Give her a question.

JJ: All right, Karen. Karen, you with me?

Caller: Yeah.

JJ: You’re breathing? You and your friend?

[Andrew laughs]

Discussion: Names of Harry and Ginny’s Children

JJ: We’re okay? All right, here’s a thinker for you: In the epilogue, we find out that Harry and Ginny get married, yes? And they have a kid, and the kid is named Albus Severus. They can throw out some respect for Albus and Severus, but they don’t give a shout-out to the brother of Ginny who died. Any explanation for that? They don’t give a Fred name?

Mikey: Well, how…

Caller: Because George would have named his kid Fred.

Caller 2: They also forgot about Sirius.

JJ: True.

Andrew: Yeah, you can’t name everyone. I mean, what about Cedric and…

JJ: Yeah, but Severus was a jerk.

Caller 2: Well, he tried.

Caller: And it’s already confusing enough. [laughs]

Caller 2: They’re totally ridiculous names that will get them beat up in school.

Mikey: Guys…

JJ: [unintelligible] Severus was just some weirdo perv that liked Lily.

Mikey: [laughs] Guys…

JJ: Right?

Jaime: Ooh.

Mikey: All right. Guys, they can have whatever names they want. They can be Wulfric, all these different names. It would matter, you know why? Because they’re Harry Potter’s son and daughter. Do you realize that automatically makes you cool? You’d just be like, “Oh my gosh, you’re like Harry Potter.”

Jaime: No. Mikey, Mikey, that completely goes against what Dumbledore would say. As Ben – I can’t do it as well as Ben, but it is our choices.

[Andrew laughs]

Jaime: You can’t be cool just because you’re Harry Potter’s son. If you’re awesome, then being Harry Potter’s son just increases that awesomeness. But it ain’t awesomeness for being someone’s child.

JJ: Are you less awesome if your name is Fred?

[Andrew and Mikey laugh]

Mikey: Well, I don’t know. See, my name is Mikey and I have to get it to where – “I’m Mikey B!”

JJ: That has to [unintelligible] your whole life.

Mikey: So you could base it up, but really – [laughs] that’s been my whole life. I’ve been working on getting the “Mikey B” all the way up there.

Jaime: But Mikey…

Mikey: And – yeah?

Jaime: You’ve got to – I think people have to earn the sort of ability to say, “Mi-mi!” You know?

[Mikey laughs]

Jaime: They need to – you can’t just come out with it. You have to be invited into the fraternity. And then perhaps after years and years of telepathy…

Mikey: [unintelligible]

Jaime: …and self-worship then you might, might be able to go “Mik” and then you get stuck and then after twenty more years, you can go “Mi-mi!”

Andrew: All right. Well, thank you, Karen, for calling in.

Mikey: Thanks, Karen.

Andrew: We still got…

Mikey: You don’t fail.

Andrew: Yeah, I’m just kidding, you don’t fail. Let’s take a quick break, get two people in here, and then we will be right back. A lot of people are requesting Spice Girls “If You Wanna Be My Lover,” so this is it.

Mikey: Is that an appropriate song?

Andrew: Yeah.

[“If You Wanna Be My Lover” by Spice Girls plays]

Discussion: Polyjuice Potion and Harry Potter Relationships

Andrew: [sings in time to the music] MuggleCast. MuggleCast Live. MuggleCast Live. Cast Live. Cast Live, Live, Live. [stops singing] We’re back!

Mikey: That was really, really cool.

Andrew: Everyone is more pumped than ever. And two people are back with us now: Alex of The Remus Lupins and Brandon, that random guy…

Mikey: From The Remus Lupins.

[Andrew and Mikey laugh]

Mikey: He’s part of The Remus Lupins.

Andrew: He’s part of The Remus Lupins.

Brandon Nicholas: Oh really?

Andrew: No, you don’t have to say that.

Brandon: Thank you.

Andrew: I’m quoting the newspaper article.

Mikey: Brandon is homeboy of The Remus Lupins.

Alex Carpenter: Our homeboy.

Andrew: [laughs] Homeboy, that’s it!

Brandon: Homeboy.

Andrew: I forgot. [laughs]

Jaime: Andrew, I think we should point out now that we’re in the last fifty minutes of the twelve hours.

Mikey: So what was the last vegetable?

Andrew: Yeah, name the last one. Or is there still one more? I’m confused.

Jaime: No, no. The last one is the one I’m going to say right now.

Brandon: Snow peas.

Jaime: Huh?

Brandon: Snow peas.

Mikey: Was it snow peas?

Jaime: Peas was the last one.

Brandon: Snow peas is the last one?

Jaime: Yeah, yeah.

Andrew: What his peas was. I think Brandon is [laughs] making it differentiate.

Mikey: No, no, I said “snow peas.” I said “snow peas.”

Andrew: [laughs] Snow peas?

Jaime: Snow peas? Okay, okay, fine, fine. The final one is snow peas, there you go.

[Andrew laughs]

Jaime: You’ve been listening for twelve hours, now you have twelve lovely and delightful vegetables.

Andrew: So everyone has to e-mail all the…

Mikey: No, no – eight and eight – sixteen seconds difference.

Andrew: Oh.

Jaime: Mikey…

Mikey: A sixteen second difference between the two, the first place and second place. Yeah.

Andrew: [laughs] Okay, okay. Well, congrats to them. Get their Skype name and then maybe we’ll get them on the show or something.

Mikey: Yeah. Well, here’s her e-mail.

Andrew: Okay. Well…

Jaime: E-mail her and ask her her Skype name.

Andrew: Figure it out. Okay, JJ, you actually had an interesting question to pose to the panel here.

JJ: I did. I’m just trying to think of how to word this. All right, we’ll go to Mikey with this first.

Andrew: [laughs] Okay.

Mikey: Okay.

JJ: All right, Mikey. You look in your bathtub and you happen to find a vial of Polyjuice Potion, all right? You’re in the Harry Potter world.

Mikey: All right.

JJ: Who do you become in order to hook up with a Harry Potter person of your dreams?

Mikey: To hook up with a Harry Potter person of my dreams?

JJ: Who are you stepping in as?

Mikey: Ooh. See, that’s the problem, is…

JJ: Are you a Hermione guy? Are you a Luna – you strike me as a Luna guy.

Mikey: No, no, I’m a Ginny guy.

JJ: Professor McGonagall?

Mikey: I’m a Ginny guy, but the thing is if I can be anybody in Harry Potter that I could impersonate…

JJ: Yeah, but you’re using it for your own…

Mikey: For my own inferious means to – yeah.

Jaime: Yeah, yeah.

Mikey: Well, I’m sorry, I would have to impersonate Harry to – I’m a Harry/Ginny person. I’m a Ginny fan.

Andrew: Huh, interesting. Interesting.

Mikey: Yeah. But if I could be anybody, I’d probably want to be just like Hagrid walking around.

Jaime: Yeah.

Mikey: Because everybody loves Hagrid and he’s so big.

JJ: You like that seven foot, eight foot chick that he hooks up in the fourth movie?

Mikey: No, no, not at all.

[Andrew laughs]

Mikey: Not at all.

JJ: Because that’s what…

Mikey: If I could just be anybody to…

Jaime: That’s what Mikey…

[Andrew laughs]

Mikey: If I can just be anybody to walk around as – dude, Hagrid is like the coolest around because no one can own up to him, come on. He didn’t die – [laughs] he should have died like a hundred times in the last book, but he didn’t. Why?

Jaime: That’s true.

Mikey: [laughs] Because he’s just like part giant. He’s awesome.

JJ: All right. Andrew, how about you?

Alex: And who do you think…

Andrew: Go ahead, Alex.

Alex: I was going to say, just what about Chewbacca? I mean…

Andrew: [laughs] What?

Mikey: Chewy is a Wookie, though.

Alex: We had this discussion last night, sorry.

Andrew: [laughs] Oh okay.

Alex: I was defending Hagrid and Mikey was defending Chewbacca, so I’m going to point that out.

Mikey: It’s Chewbacca. All right, I’m stopping.

Alex: I’m sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead, you guys.

Andrew: Okay. Umm. Geez. [laughs] Oh man. All right – [laughs] now I feel like this is inappropriate for the show. But…

Alex: [laughs] Hour ten. Hour eleven.

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah. Hour twelve, dude! I would have to say Harry as well.

JJ: You’re a Ginny guy too?

Andrew: Yeah. Because I can’t think of any other relationship. I can’t think of any other Harry Potter character that…

JJ: You could be Cedric and there’s Cho Chang.

Andrew: Oh, Cho. Yeah, but that’s not current. That’s – and plus, Cedric is dead, so…

JJ: You could be Lupin if you’re a Tonks guy. Come on.

[Andrew laughs]

JJ: Get it together.

Andrew: Yeah, but…

Mikey: Oh, Lupin maybe. Yeah, still Ginny.

Andrew: I like Tonks in the movie.

JJ: Giant weirdos.

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, I don’t want to turn into a werewolf.

Brandon: Lupin is pretty boring. I don’t know about Lupin.

Andrew: Yeah, Brandon, who would you transform into?

Brandon: You know, you’re asking a very good question and I would actually go for Samwise Gamgee.

Alex: That’s not…

Brandon: If I could be anybody.

[Andrew and Mikey laugh]

Mikey: Yes! He is Samwise. He is Samwise.

Andrew: Oh my God. Okay.

Mikey: This is turning really bad. Let’s continue.

Andrew: And Alex?

Alex: Are we in Harry Potter or – I forgot because we keep talking about other things.

Andrew: No, we are still on Harry Potter.

Alex: Lupin’s the man, so…

Brandon: Alex from The Remus Lupins, what would you be?

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah. I sort of saw that coming.

Brandon: Alex from The Remus Lupins, what would you be in any book out of…

Alex: Here we go. Are you ready?

Brandon: Yes.

Alex: Are you ready? I would turn into Tonks…

[Andrew and Mikey laugh]

Alex: …so I can hang out with Lupin. [laughs] Because he’s so awesome!

Mikey: [laughs] Alex, you would turn into Tonks to hook up with yourself. That is awesome.

[Alex laughs]

Mikey: Awww, I bow down to you. Not worthy. That’s great.

Andrew: That’s understandable, though.

Alex: I don’t know, I think obviously Ginny is awesome. How can you not want Ginny?

Andrew: Although – yeah.

JJ: So…

Alex: I like Luna though, so maybe I’d turn into Neville.

Andrew: Before you said Ginny though, I was going to say I’ve been reading blogs and things would suggest otherwise but I guess that’s not the case now, so…

Jaime: Ooh.

Andrew: Just me? Just me?

Mikey: What?

Andrew: Just kidding.

Alex: Let’s let that one go.

Andrew: [laughs] I’m just kidding.

[Alex laughs]

Andrew: Anyway, what were you saying, JJ?

JJ: Did Jamie have an answer for that?

Andrew: [laughs] Oh yeah, Jamie.

JJ: Jamie wants to be Mr. Weasley?

Jaime: Yes.

[Everyone laughs]

Jaime: Molly Weasley fills me with joy.

Alex: So true.

Jaime: I would be Ron because Hermione.

JJ: Yeah?

Jaime: Hermione is a… [unintelligible]

Requests for Jamie to Sing

Andrew: Jamie, a lot of people are requesting in the chat that you start singing. Everyone thinks…

Jaime: It’s not going to happen.

Alex: Do it.

Jaime: [laughs] It’s just not going to happen. May as well give up now. [laughs] It’s too late. It’s too, too, too…

Andrew: Well, you sang eight hours ago when it wasn’t too late, so…

Jaime: Oh really, Andrew? I don’t think I was.

Andrew: [laughs] Yes, you were.

Alex: No, Jamie, you said sing.

Jaime: [unintelligible]

Andrew: No, we had a discussion earlier today about the singing thing and you said you would never sing and I said, “Fair point.”

Jaime: Yes.

Andrew: I’m with you on this.

Mikey: Wait, but he sang that song really quietly as a joke and he didn’t realize he was actually singing. So he did sing.

Brandon: Talk about the blowing up, you guys.

Alex: Yeah, you promised, Jamie. You promised.

Brandon: Sing, sing, sing.

Alex: You promised. John Noe, you promised. John Noe.

[Mikey laughs]

Brandon: Jamie, sing, sing, sing. Do it, do it. Sing. LOL. Sing.

Alex: [laughs] You promised.

Andrew: Wait, I’m lost. What does it have to do with John Noe?

Jaime: I’m lost as well.

Alex: I don’t know, I’m just reading the talkback.

Andrew: Oh.

Jaime: [laughs] Oh.

Andrew: Yeah, the chat’s pretty crazy right now.

Alex: [laughs] It’s giving me a headache.

Andrew: It’s giving me a headache, too.

Brandon: Sing.

[Alex laughs]

Andrew: Yeah.

Mikey: Jamie, you should sing “I Did It My Way” because you made it all twelve hours but you did it your way to get through. You left at times, came back.

Andrew: We do actually have one song that Jamie requested for the very end…

Jaime: Yeah.

Andrew: …but I guess we won’t spoil it now.

Alex: Yeah, don’t…

Andrew: That’s the one song that’s prepared for this whole…

Jaime: Not that it takes away to…

Andrew: Alex, we were playing some of your wizard rock over break. Did you see that?

Alex: Oh yeah?

Andrew: Yeah, we played…

Alex: Yeah, I listened to the whole show, man.

[Alex and Andrew laugh]

Alex: I didn’t ever leave.

Andrew: No, no, no, I mean this past break, like twenty minutes ago…

Alex: Oh.

Andrew: …before we got you in here. We were playing “Snape.”

Alex: Oh yeah. I got a lot of IM’s. People were very excited.

Andrew: Cool, cool.

Mikey: See…

Andrew: I’m telling you guys, you need to record a live album! That would be awesome.

Alex: Yeah.

Andrew: I know it would be hard, but it would be awesome. It would be very cool.

Alex: I was actually thinking we might do that. We might do something like that.

Brandon: I don’t think it should be a live CD.

Mikey: Yeah, a live show DVD. We could film it and everything and…

Andrew: There you go! I’d be down for that.

Alex: As long as you guys come out and sing on “Looking for Trouble.”

Andrew: Oh, of course.

Mikey: [singing] “Badaba!”

Andrew: Of course. Actually, can we just cut in a YouTube clip? Because there’s plenty of those…

Alex: [laughs] Sure.

Andrew: …on YouTube. [laughs] That would be fun.

Mikey: Don’t forget that.

Andrew: And on Facebook.

Alex: Jalex. [laughs] That’s amazing.

MuggleCast 113 Transcript (continued)

MuggleCast Summer Tour Stories

Andrew: So okay, we got forty minutes left to go. What do you guys want to do? [laughs] Because obviously – we haven’t looked at the schedule for a while because…

Alex: Can I – wait, wait.

Andrew: What?

Alex: I have to say I’ve been kind of getting in and out of the chat, the talkback thing.

Andrew: Yeah.

Alex: And I don’t want to do a shout-out, but I’m going to do a shout-out to the people who’ve been in this talkback for the last twelve hours. [laughs]

Andrew: Yeah.

Alex: They’ve lost their minds just as much as you guys have.

Jaime: Those are the real champions.

Andrew: Yeah.

Alex: So – yeah, they’re heroes.

Andrew: They’re heroes.

Mikey: They’re heroes. And with great power comes great responsibility, all you chat-back people.

Andrew: Come around hour four – I didn’t think we’d be able to do this but definitely in the future – oh, and to be honest with you, last night I thought this live show wasn’t happening [laughs] because we were having a lot of technical problems.

Jaime: Yeah, we had some serious problems. We thought we were going to have to abandon this show and just do an extra long pre-recorded show.

Andrew: Yeah. But stream it. Yeah, nobody was up for that, instead we were all for the twelve-hour thing. Sorry that not everyone came on as promised, like Micah and Kevin and – well, Ben came on.

Mikey: Yeah, what happened to Kevin?

Andrew: Kevin told me he had a lot of homework. He said he could be on for part of it, but who knows what happens. Everyone keeps saying – making up these lies about Ben in the chat. Don’t really appreciate that. Ben is my friend.

Jaime: Yeah, we don’t like rumors, do we?

Andrew: We don’t encourage that sort of thing. These assumptions that aren’t true. But anyway, Alex and Brandon?

Alex: Yeah?

Brandon: Yes?

Andrew: Give us something to talk about. [laughs]

Brandon: I have some good stories. Some good stories about Alex as a child. I could talk about growing up with him in the meadows in Kansas.

Andrew: The meadows in – wait, I thought you didn’t ever live in Kansas.

Brandon: Yeah, I never did.

Alex: Usually we don’t let Brandon talk.

Andrew: Yeah, now I see why he’s not in the band.

Alex: He’s – oh.

[Andrew laughs]

Mikey: Oh, that is so…

Andrew: These are jokes! Why can’t anyone find this funny? It’s a joke.

Alex: Because you hurt our hearts.

Andrew: But you just said – never mind. Whatever.

[Alex laughs]

Andrew: You – [sighs] forget it.

Alex: Oh my God.

Andrew: I’m done. I’m done.

Alex: Something funny to talk about. You should tell more funny tour stories, I think, because this summer was amazing.

Mikey: Hey, you know what?

Andrew: The tour was great. I can’t think of many tour stories though other than like Ben [laughs] running into cones.

Mikey: Didn’t he crash the car? Did we talk about that?

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, he did crash the car. Everyone keeps saying he crashed the car. It was…

Mikey: [laughs] I wasn’t in the van. I was in the van with Alex. That’s when we got pulled over.

Alex: Oh yeah, that’s when I got a ticket.

Mikey: Yeah!

Andrew: So you bring that up but I can’t make a joke about Brandon. Okay.

[Andrew and Mikey laugh]

Mikey: You talk about Brandon. I heard Brandon had some strong influence on why Ben did this. He’s like, “I’d be ashamed if you didn’t,” or something like that.

Brandon: I would have. I’m in the car and I see this happening. And it’s going to happen no matter what, you know Ben had his mind set on it, so I kind of was like, “You know what? I’d be upset if you didn’t. Why not?”

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah?

[Mikey laughs]

Andrew: So Ben decides to drive into stationary construction cones that aren’t designed to move, and I didn’t think – I thought he was just going to love-tap one, just sort of like a little tap.

[Mikey laughs]

Andrew: He sort of drives right over it and we knocked out our light and stuff. Did we ever pay extra for that? Do you know?

Mikey: No, no…

Andrew: Mikey?

Mikey: We paid for the…

Jaime: Yeah, it was…

Mikey: …ultra insurance thing, so no matter what happened to the car…

Andrew: Oh right.

Mikey: And I remember…

Alex: Didn’t you guys…

Mikey: Yeah, basically we got the super – honestly, if you ever go through Hertz, get the super insurance because they’ll pay you if your car gets broken into or anything like that happens. And each person had like $10,000 worth of insurance on them.

Jaime: No, Mikey…

Mikey: So if Ben died, we would have gotten money for him.

Jaime: Didn’t we realize that we could send that car back to them in pieces…

[Mikey laughs]

Jaime: …like completely crushed, and everything would be covered?

Andrew: Yeah, the Hertz guy actually said to us you can send it back to us in a box [laughs] and…

Mikey: [laughs] We wanted to.

Andrew: …we’ll be covered.

[Jamie laughs]

Mikey: And we were like, “Wow.”

Brandon: Hey, Alex, why didn’t we get insurance on our van? I mean, if something happened to the van.

Alex: I don’t know, how come we drove into… [unintelligible]

[Mikey laughs]

Alex: …and got our car stuck there?

[Andrew laughs]

Alex: [laughs] Or how come we backed into a pole? How about that?

Brandon: The key word: I did, not we.

Alex: [laughs] Yes.

Andrew: But you got to give…

Brandon: But it sounded like a good idea at the time. I don’t know.

[Alex laughs]

Andrew: But I got to give you guys credit because you’re driving cross-country up to Buffalo, New York, then up to Canada, then back to LA with a million stops along the way.

Jaime: That’s a long, long, long tour.

Andrew: And you all came back in one piece. That’s a pretty good accomplishment.

Alex: Yeah.

Andrew: And you guys had a great tour. So…

Alex: Pretty good summer.

Andrew: Yeah.

Brandon: Although we came back and I had gingivitis and Alex missed a leg, but we were barely…

[Jamie laughs]

Andrew: Missing legs? [laughs] What?

Alex: Luckily I only missed one leg. I only lost one leg. But the thing is the insurance covered it, luckily, so…

Brandon: Yeah, we got paid for his leg.

Andrew: Well, that’s very interesting.

Brandon: Awkward.

Andrew: I commented on Alex’s Wall the other day that every time I see a big blue Ford van I’m always peering in it to make sure [laughs] it’s not Alex in the van driving around somewhere. Brings back memories.

Jaime: Your van was an absolute beast.

Andrew: I think the best part of tour was just being able to – I just enjoyed it some much, the “tour life.” You just have a show day after day, you check into a hotel, you stay the night, you have fun with all your friends…

Jaime: Yeah.

Andrew: …and you’re back on the road.

Jaime: Big Western was our friend.

Andrew: Seriously, I’m a Big Western fan now.

Jaime: Me too. I am now.

Alex: Yes, the…

Jaime: Apart from one thing.

Mikey: Uh-oh.

Jaime: The sink is outside of the bathroom which just…

Mikey: Hey, guys?

Andrew: What, Mikey?

Mikey: Remember how I said Celine was the winner of our contest?

Andrew: Yeah.

Jaime: Yeah.

Mikey: I sent three e-mails and they all get bounced back to me.

Andrew: Uh-oh.

Mikey: Three.

Jaime: Ooh.

Mikey: And I sent them from all different e-mail accounts so it’s not my e-mail program or anything like that. I even logged into the MuggleNet web one and it still got bounced back. So…

Andrew: Well, maybe have her e-mail you and try to prove – maybe she just got one letter in her e-mail address wrong.

Jaime: Probably, yeah.

Mikey: Yeah. So Celine, if you can e-mail us – we’ll wait another ten, fifteen minutes, maybe?

Andrew: Yeah.

Mikey: Before we go to the second place person.

Andrew: That’s fine.

Mikey: Okay.

Andrew: I guess we’ll take a few more callers.

Brandon: Yeah, yeah.

Andrew: And Brandon is very excited about that.

Mikey: Bran-don.

Brandon: I love callers.

Andrew: Well, good. You can talk to them. Here we go.

Brandon: Awesome.

Andrew: Here’s Dana. Oh, hold on a second. Okay, we got to kick someone out. JJ, I’m going to let you go because we are at our limit here. So thanks, JJ, for being on.

Mikey: Bye!

Andrew: JJ?

JJ: Yeah. Oh, I’m sorry, I actually left like twenty minutes ago. I was just sitting here.

Andrew: [laughs] Okay. All right.

Mikey: Listening through here instead of on the other feed.

Andrew: Yeah. All right. Well…

JJ: [unintelligible] show, guys.

Andrew: Thanks for coming on.

Mikey: Buh-bye.

Andrew: Steve Capello. Okay, let’s answer…

Mikey: Who to call?

Andrew: Got to redo this. Here we go. Lena…

Brandon: Why is everything John Noe on the frickin’ talkback?

Andrew: I don’t know. John Noe is not there.

Alex: Let me say something about this.

Caller: Hello?

Alex: This is MuggleCast, you guys.

Andrew: Yeah, this is MuggleCast.

Alex: This is not PotterCast.

Andrew: This is also a twelve-hour MuggleCast meaning this is not what a normal MuggleCast is like.

Alex: Live.

Listener Calls: Harry Potter Connections to Hinduism

Andrew: And we’re trying to do more of a radio program here, not just Harry Potter. It’s sort of an experiment. But anyway, hi Lena!

Caller: Hi!

Andrew: What’s going on?

Caller: I’ve been here since noon.

Andrew: Okay.

Mikey: Yay!

Andrew: Awesome.

Caller: [laughs] Yeah. I’m here with my friend Veronica.

Caller 2: Hi!

Andrew: Hi!

Brandon: Hey!

Caller: I kind of actually had a point that I’ve wanted to bring up. I’ve e-mailed this in to you guys before, but I’m taking a comparative religion class in school right now and we’re learning all about Hinduism. And I know that J.K. Rowling is very Christian and she puts that kind of stuff into the books, but I found some interesting things that are connections to Harry Potter in Hinduism.

Andrew: Oh okay. Like what?

Caller: For example, one of the gods Shiva, they have a snake tied around their neck and the snake is called Naga which is kind of like Nagini.

Jaime: Ooh.

Andrew: Ooh.

Caller: And the god Shiva is the creator and the destroyer.

Andrew: Wow.

Caller: Which is kind of like Voldemort.

Andrew: Yeah.

Jaime: She puts a load of…

Caller: And also…

Jaime: …mythology things in.

Caller: What?

Jaime: She puts a load of references like that in. Like, Fenrir Greyback – the wolf Fenrir from Norse mythology is one of the beasts that’s involved in Ragnarˆk, the end of the world.

Caller: Mhm.

Jaime: So she’s a big fan of symbolism like that. Sorry, go on.

Caller: Yeah, and the crying baby at the end of Book 7 in King’s Cross, that kind of goes back to the idea of reincarnation, that maybe this baby was born after Tom Riddle was killed and it carried all the bad Karma that Voldemort and Tom Riddle had, and that’s why it’s this tortured, mangled baby.

Andrew: Hmm. That’s pretty interesting.

Caller: I don’t know if this is intentional.

Andrew: Oh, you’re wondering if it’s intentional. Like Jamie was saying, there is a lot of religious connections, but – I don’t know. What do you think, Mikey?

Mikey: I would say probably some if not completely intentional. The names like “Remus,” there’s so many different things there.

[Andrew talks in the background]

Mikey: Lupin, come on. It’s wolf and – there’s so many things that – what? Andrew, pay attention.

[Caller laughs]

Mikey: Okay. So anyway, yeah, I think it’s intentional. What do you think, Alex?

Alex: I was just listening to the dance party that Andrew is having.

Mikey: [laughs] I know. It’s a little distracting.

Alex: Yeah, certainly. J.K. Rowling is very well versed in all sorts of literature and she’s drawing from all the sort of – I mean, the names are just a tip of the iceberg if you were to look at it.

Mikey: Yeah.

Alex: In terms of the form of the book. She’s drawing from every sort of fantasy convention ever, and putting it together to make something bigger and better. So the names are just kind of a hint at that.

Caller: Yeah, and I love that. I think maybe just because I’m a huge fan I find connections in everything, but… [laughs]

Alex: That’s really cool though because there’s obvious connections to the sort of Christian tradition, but to see that she is pulling it from all sorts of world religions makes you have even more respect for her.

Caller: Yeah.

Mikey: Yeah, I totally agree with Alex on that. It’s nice to know that she’s not just keeping this narrow mind on it. She’s pulling it from everywhere. Again, with the Norse religion and something. And I know she’s pulled from a lot of other things. I had a world religion class and as I started getting into Harry Potter and I found connections everywhere with all the different religions and stuff like that, I thought it was really cool. But I never really went anymore onto it because there’s all these different things everywhere for it, so – but it’s really cool just thinking about how she’s pulling from everywhere. It’s not just a narrow mind thing that she has. And that’s one of the reasons why I like her so much.

Caller: Yeah. Is Andrew still here?

Andrew: Yeah, I’m still here. There’s a bunch of girls in my room right now. It’s really annoying.

Mikey: Woah!

Alex: [unintelligible]

Andrew: Okay…

Mikey: Oh, poor Andrew.

Andrew: Thank you…

Mikey: Who’s there, Andrew?

Andrew: Thank you, Lena, for calling.

Mikey: Is Becca there?

Andrew: They won’t leave.

Mikey: Who’s in your room?

Andrew: Shut up! Go away! It’s Becca and all of her friends.

[Laughing in the background]

Andrew: For some reason they’re all…

Mikey: [in a silly voice] Becca!

[Laughing in the background]

Andrew: [in a silly voice] Becca!

Mikey: [in a silly voice] Becca!

Andrew: [in a silly voice] Becca! [back to normal voice] Micah called me. He’s ready to come on now.

Mikey: Who, Micah?

Andrew: Yes.

Mikey: Micah. Micah Tan.

Andrew: Go away! All of you! You’re worthless! All of you!

[Micah’s voicemail plays]

Andrew: Of course, he doesn’t answer his phone. Okay. So – will you guys seriously leave?! Seriously! Leave!

Mikey: Becca…

Andrew: Leave!

Brandon: Hey, you guys…

Andrew: All of you!

Brandon: Can I just say that…

Andrew: Hurt yourselves!

Dan the Van Versus Lincoln Navigator

Brandon: …I just noticed the new poll is: Which van is better for tour, Dan the Van or the Lincoln Navigator? And Dan the Van is winning 65% to 35%.

Andrew: Yeah, why is that? We hardly even talked about Dan the Van.

Mikey: [laughs] Okay, wait…

Brandon: I don’t know.

Mikey: …I think we should discuss this, Dan the Van and the Lincoln Navigator. Should we talk about this?

Alex: Yes.

Brandon: Please do.

Mikey: Okay. Well, let’s explain. So…

Alex: First of all, let’s get the terminology right, okay? His name is Daniel Beastius Bugzapper. We call him Dan for short.

[Andrew laughs]

Alex: But he’s got a full name.

Andrew: Okay.

Alex: It needs to be said.

Mikey: And what did we call our van?

Alex: Does the Navigator have a name even?

Mikey: I think I just called it The Batmobile for a while. [laughs]

Brandon: No, it was the 2000 Navigator Limited Edition. Ooh, limited edition.

Andrew: Yeah. 2007 Lincoln Navigator Limited Edition.

Mikey: With iPod connection.

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah.

Alex: That’s like calling your child “The Boy.” It’s horrible.

[Andrew and Mikey laugh]

Andrew: With GPS.

Mikey: Yeah, with GPS! Come on, it was a smart boy. [laughs]

Andrew: See, we only had ours for nine days though. If you had a child only for nine days, you wouldn’t name it, would you? Because then you don’t want a connection to it.

Brandon: Dan had a name like Day 1.

[Andrew laughs]

Alex: Before we even got in the car.

Andrew: Oh.

Mikey: Okay. Well, let’s explain the two cars so we can see which one wins. The Lincoln was the one MuggleCast rented.

Andrew: Right.

Mikey: So it was for all of us, so me, Andrew, Ben, Jamie, Emerson, and Adam in that car. Although not all six of us at once. We only got five in at a time. And Dan the Van – which is a very cool van. It had a nice little moon and werewolf sticker on it on the side, right?

Brandon: Yeah.

Mikey: Or am I making that up?

Alex: So people would know that it was us when you’re coming to town.

Mikey: Yes.

[Andrew laughs]

Mikey: That’s what I thought.

Brandon: The other way they knew we were coming to town was it kind of smelled like you’re coming to town. You can smell it from far away.

Mikey: [laughs] Yeah. We can smell you guys from far away, trust me. Sorry. I’m joking.

Alex: Way to go, Brandon.

[Mikey laughs]

Brandon: I’m sorry.

Mikey: Well, come on…

Brandon: This is a podcast. This is true. This is real life.

Mikey: …it’s because you guys rock. It’s because you guys rock so hard.

Brandon: Yeah.

Mikey: But yeah, these two cars got us cross country and obviously Dan the Van was out there for quite a bit longer. I like that van. I rode in it.

Alex: Can I just say something? I don’t want to use the Trump Card yet but I’m going to have to throw it out.

Mikey: Oh God.

Alex: We had a sunglasses rack in Dan the Van. Did you have a sunglass rack?

Andrew: No, but I do remember that. That was actually pretty cool.

Alex: We needed to…

[Phone dial tone starts]

Alex: Woah. We need to watch out for our PBTs? We had sunglasses.

Mikey: [laughs] Oh yeah, we do!

Andrew: [laughs] Oh yeah.

Alex: [laughs] You know what I mean?

Mikey: The PBTs and sunglasses. If you’re not wearing sunglasses – or if you are wearing sunglasses and PBT is more active, it’s bad for driving. [laughs]

Andrew: Yeah. Micah Tannenbaum…

Mikey: You want to tell that story?

Andrew: Hold on one second. Micah Tannenbaum is joining us now. Micah, where are you?

Micah: I am in Nantucket, Massachusetts.

Andrew: Nantucket, Massachusetts.

Brandon: Your last name is awesome.

Andrew: [laughs] Tannenbaum?

Brandon: I love The Royal Tenenbaums so much.

Andrew: [laughs] Well, it’s not spelt the same way, is it? Isn’t it Royal Tenenbaums, or am I wrong?

Brandon: Yeah. No, it is, but it’s close and he’s got an accent, maybe. I don’t know.

Andrew: [laughs] No, he doesn’t have an accent. Fair point.

Brandon: I don’t know.

Mikey: Hey, Micah? Since you’re here in Nantucket, if you go, “There was Micah from Nantucket -” you do a little rhyme for us? For me? No? Okay. I’m stopping.

Andrew: [laughs] Micah?

Micah: Give a rhyme?

Andrew: A rhyme.

Mikey: A little rhyme. There once was a man from Nantucket, there once was a Micah from Nantucket. And – no, I’m stopping. Let’s just go on. How are you doing, buddy? I haven’t seen you or talked to you in a while.

Micah: Who is this?

Mikey: It’s Mikey.

[Andrew laughs]

Mikey: Mikey B!

Micah: Oh okay. It’s a little different over cell phone than it is over…

Mikey: Skype?

Micah: Over the mic when I can actually see your name and see that you’re actually there.

Mikey: Oh yeah.

Micah: How are you doing, man?

Mikey: I’m doing good.

Micah: I haven’t seen you in a while.

Mikey: Yeah. How are you doing? What’s going on in Nantucket?

Micah: I’m actually at a wedding. Or I was at a wedding. Just wrapping up.

Alex: You’re not actually at the wedding right now?

Andrew: How did it go?

Micah: No, I’m not. It was great. Nice. Good time out here.

Andrew: Cool.

Mikey: Open bar? Open bar? Maybe? No?

Micah: [laughs] What’s that?

Andrew and Mikey: [laughs] Was it an open bar?

Mikey: It’s a wedding, come on.

Micah: Yes, there was some of that. Don’t we have people listening? Or…

Mikey: Yeah, we do.

Andrew: Yeah. It’s okay, you’re of age.

Alex: Hour twelve.

Mikey: It’s fine.

Andrew: Come on, we got…

Micah: That is true.

Mikey: It’s cool. It’s an open bar. Come on, even…

Andrew: Plus this is hour twelve. There’s no secrets on hour twelve.

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Micah: [unintelligible]

Mikey: Completely the truth.

Andrew: Huh?

Micah: The local beer.

Andrew: Oh okay. Well anyway, what were we talking about? Dan the Van or something?

Mikey: And the Lincoln Navigator.

Brandon: We were talking about the tour vans. The tour vans.

Andrew: Oh yeah. So the point is 2007 Lincoln Navigator wins, despite the fact that it’s still been beaten – it’s 317 votes for Dan the Van, [sighs] 154 for the Lincoln Navigator.

Brandon: What, what.

Andrew: So you’re winning twice over.

Alex: The thing is I’m so happy that all these people understand how awesome Dan is.

Andrew: No, I can understand it too, because you named it. So you should win just because you named it.

Alex: They’re throwing out the support.

Andrew: Yeah. Okay, so…

Alex: Dan is awesome.

Andrew: Dan is awesome.

More MuggleCast Summer Tour Stories

Brandon: Someone just said that Dan has apple juice. That’s very true.

Andrew: Yeah, we were talking about that earlier, Brandon, actually. [laughs] About your obsession over apple juice.

Brandon: Really? What were you guys saying?

Andrew: Well, just – we were…

Brandon: [unintelligible]

Andrew: Yeah. Oh no – well yeah, Alex was saying that apple juice is sort of like fading in the group.

Brandon: Yes.

Andrew: And then I mentioned I remember seeing you purchase apple juice and I also said I like apple juice. So…

Brandon: Well, there’s different kinds of apple juice, let me just say. Because I’m a real apple juice [unintelligible] and…

Andrew: Okay.

Brandon: There’s different kinds and the number one kind that I’ve tried across the nation is Veryfine. And Alex will [unintelligible] on the next show.

Alex: It’s Veryfine Apple Juice.

Andrew: What is it? I want it.

Alex: It’s called Veryfine.

Brandon: Veryfine. On the East Coast and we only had it once on this tour which is surprising.

Alex: Yeah.

Brandon: It is very, very good.

Andrew: And it’s called Veryfine?

Alex: Yes.

Brandon: Veryfine Apple Juice.

Alex: You can purchase it at Wawa, actually.

Andrew: Oh, you can?

Brandon: Yes.

Andrew: Oh.

Alex: Yeah. That’s where we first had our experience with Veryfine.

Andrew: Oh awesome.

Alex: It’s excellent. I recommend it to your listeners.

Brandon: It’s very rare.

[Andrew laughs]

Brandon: It’s very rare and it’s very fine.

Andrew: [laughs] Okay. And is it very?

Brandon: Very.

Alex: Here’s the problem with tour, is this – for those of you listening, this is every day [laughs] in the tour van.

[Mikey laughs]

Alex: It’s what the whole experience is like.

Mikey: It’s really true. This is the stuff we talk about…

Alex: [laughs] We’ve had these conversations for twelve hours at a time.

[Alex and Mikey laugh]

Andrew: Yeah. It’s kind of – I like it though. That’s what I love about it.

Alex: So did you guys buy your tickets for Australia yet? Is that happening?

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, we’re – actually, maybe we’ll put it – see, why don’t we think this through? We’re so dumb. The moment we started considering Australia, we should have put a donation button up.

Alex: Correct.

Andrew: If we raised like $100,000 maybe we could fly two of us to Australia. [laughs]

Mikey: Dude, I want to go to Australia so bad. It’d be so cool. [sighs]

Andrew: Yeah, that would be very cool. All right, Alex and Brandon, any final thoughts today? Because I want to bring Laura and…

Alex: Yeah.

Andrew: Go for it. I hate to cut you off but…

Alex: No, man.

Andrew: Okay, cool.

Alex: Thank you for having us on.

Andrew: Yeah, hold on. I’m not letting you go yet.

Brandon: Thank you very much.

Alex: Okay.

Andrew: I want to say thanks for letting us go on the tour, again. We enjoyed it so much. You guys are the coolest people ever.

Alex: Oh thanks.

Andrew: No, seriously. It was too much fun. I said it a million times already, but…

Alex: I love you guys.

Andrew: Oh.

Alex: You are rad.

Andrew: I love you guys, too. It’s funny because that first night, Alex was like, “Yeah, come over to Brandon’s house for a party to get to know everyone.”

Jaime: Oh, that was fun, that barbecue, yeah.

Andrew: Yeah. And had a barbecue at Brandon’s house, Brandon’s dad was there, cooking over the grill. And it was funny because we didn’t even know Brandon, Tyler, I didn’t even talk to Toby that night. And now we’re like all cool with each other. [laughs] So it’s amazing.

Mikey: Well, in your defense, Toby does look kind of scary with the dreads…

[Andrew laughs]

Mikey: …and everything. [laughs]

Andrew: That wasn’t my first impression.

Mikey: Don’t get me wrong, I love Toby.

Brandon: I’m still scared of him.

[Everyone laughs]

Mikey: But truthfully – yeah, Toby – I have no reason to talk because I’m sure I look just as scary as Toby if not more so.

[Andrew and Mikey laughs]

Alex: Yeah, Mikey’s got some hardcore dreads now for those of you who haven’t seen.

Andrew: Yeah, he does. He does. But – yeah, it’s amazing what two months difference can make. I guess it was two months ago, right? July 15th? Yeah, it wasn’t even two months. So…

Alex: Hey, did you guys hear Harry Potter Book 7 came out?

Andrew: Oh really?

Alex: Yeah.

Andrew: No, I didn’t actually…

Mikey: I think we should talk about that some time. Soon maybe.

Andrew: Maybe. Unless my head starts hurting. But – okay. Well, thank you two very much for coming on. I think we lost the stream for a second but we’re going back. Our listeners are coming back.

Brandon: We’re back on.

Jaime: Are we back?

Andrew: Yeah, I think we are back. So thanks, guys, a lot! Seriously.

Alex: Thank you.

Andrew: It was fun having you on, fun being on the tour. I’m sure we’ll be hanging out soon. So…

Alex: Yes.

Brandon: Yes.

Andrew: All right…

Alex: And if people haven’t heard the music before, they should check out www.FightEvilReadBooks.com.

Andrew: Absolutely. I plugged it earlier, just so you know.

Alex: Okay.

Brandon: And also, there’s wizard rap out there – or actually it’s called Lord of the Rings rap, if you guys haven’t heard.

Mikey: Yes!

Andrew: [laughs] Really? Oh, that’s right. You guys are starting that band, aren’t you?

Mikey: Oh, you missed that.

Brandon: Yeah.

Mikey: Oh, you missed the live performance, Andrew.

Brandon: It’s going to be huge. It’s actually – Matt from The Whomping Willows and I were in a band called Sean and the Astins.

Andrew: Yeah? What’s the MySpace URL? Do you have a song yet?

Alex: Nothing’s up there.

Brandon: Nothing’s up there yet. We’re working on it still.

Mikey: Oh.

Brandon: We’re collaborating a little bit. We’re have a few live shows.

Mikey: Hey, Brandon, can I explain to them how you guys actually perform and everything?

Brandon: Yeah, please do.

Mikey: How amazing it is? All right, we all – I hope everyone has seen Lord of the Rings. If you haven’t, it’s cool but it’s a great movie and everything. It’s a great book. And we all know the Hobbits walk around barefoot. [laughs] Matt and Brandon take their shoes off, roll up their jeans, and get up there and rap as Samwise Gamgees. They’re Samwise 1 and Samwise 2.

[Andrew laughs]

Mikey: And it’s amazing. They’re barefoot, they’re rapping. “We Hobbits. Yeah. We Hobbits.” It’s great.

Andrew: [laughs] That’s awesome.

Brandon: No, it’s Sean Astin who’s asking.

Mikey: Yeah.

Alex: Yeah. I don’t know how you guys can be anymore hardcore, basically.

[Andrew laughs]

Alex: And you’re putting out an album, too. It’s called “Never Say Die,” right? “Goonies Never Say Die”?

Brandon: Yeah, yeah.

Mikey: [laughs] Yes.

Brandon: It’s dropping later, though. Next year we’re dropping the album. It’s going to be hot, hot like larva.

Andrew: [laughs] You guys are nuts. Okay. [laughs] Well, we’re going to let you go now.

Alex: All right. Thanks again for having us on.

Andrew: No problem. Thank you guys.

Brandon: Yes.

Alex: Goodnight.

Andrew: All right, see you two. Find…

Brandon: Bye.

Andrew: Bye. All right, find…

Mikey: I want to say…

Andrew: Let’s get Laura in here.

Mikey: Celine, the person that won the contest, she did e-mail me. Check your e-mail. There’s some information there. Please respond once more to us.

Andrew: Cool.

Mikey: I have your e-mail and I sent the e-mail out again, but please respond to that e-mail.

Andrew: Laura is back now. Oh sorry.

Mikey: Yay!

Laura: By a small miracle, yeah. [laughs]

Micah: Why didn’t you invite Laura in?

Andrew: Yeah, we were… [laughs]

Laura: [unintelligible]

Andrew: And Micah is here too, but the way. We were having problems getting Laura in for some reason. Apparently Skype limits me. I thought you could have nine people in a conversation but apparently not.

Mikey: You can, you just need…

Andrew: At least on my connection.

Mikey: Yeah, you just need a good internet connection.

Andrew: Yeah, I guess so. So we’re wrapping up the show here. Jamie, are you still alive?

Jaime: Yes.

Andrew: Okay, good.

Jaime: I am.

Mikey: Jamie, talk up a little. I can’t hear you.

Andrew: Just checking.

Jaime: Huh?

Mikey: Talk up, I can’t hear you, buddy.

Jaime: Sorry, it’s my – my computer turned the volume down and I have no idea why, on my mic. One sec.

Andrew: Okay. Well, you sounded louder then.

Jaime: Okay, I’m back. I’m back.

Andrew: Okay.

Mikey: Yay!

MuggleCast 113 Transcript (continued)

Future Live MuggleCast Shows

Andrew: Great. So we’re all here now. I want to talk, seriously, about doing – and actually I want to make it the poll, do a serious poll. This show went really well and – at least we think so. Listeners in the thing, chat, do you think it went well? Says “Yes” or “No” right now. We’ll get bombarded once it goes through. We have a yes, we have a yay, we have a yes, yes.

Laura: Yay!

Andrew: Okay, so I’m going to make a poll. Oh, please don’t tell me Firefox just froze on me.

Mikey: Did it freeze?

Andrew: Firefox definitely just froze on me.

Jerry: Ustream seems to run…

Andrew: Oh wait…

Jerry: …a lot better in IE.

Andrew: IE? Yeah, someone mentioned that on the chat and…

Jerry: Yeah.

Andrew: …unfortunately I’m on this [censored] Mac.

Mikey: Awww.

Laura: Ummm…

Andrew: Wait…

Jerry: Poor you.

Andrew: It’s working, it’s just lagging uncontrollably because I asked everyone to say yes at once.

[Jerry laughs]

Mikey: Oh, it’s because everybody [laughs] is all responding.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: And everyone just heard your slip, Andrew.

Andrew: Yeah. What? No, that wasn’t a slip. That was completely on purpose.

Laura: Okay.

[Jerry and Laura laugh]

Andrew: I was just kidding. Macs are not poopy.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Andrew: Okay, everyone stop typing in the chat. Actually just leave the chat. I don’t even know why I’m in there. Oh, Kelazma is there. Shout-out to Kelazma! Nobody shouted out – okay, now we’re good.

Laura: Yeah, I’m talking to her right now.

Mikey: Yay, Kalasma.

Andrew: Okay. So as I was saying, this went really well. I’m going to make the poll right now. Should we continue to do live shows? Now, not twelve-hour live shows, however I could definitely see…

Mikey: Awww. [laughs]

Andrew: …organized, concise, well-planned two-hour shows.

Jaime: Two-hour shows would be fun, yeah.

Andrew: Two-hour live shows once a week. And overall, it went very well tonight.

Jaime: [laughs] Andrew, imagine if we stuck with our original plan and done twenty-four? We’d be halfway through.

Andrew: Heck no. Heck no.

Mikey: Twenty-four would be so awesome.

Laura: Oh my gosh.

Jerry: We’d be dead.

Mikey: I would be so down for twenty-four. Come on.

Laura: Jamie, you would still have twelve hours left.

Jaime: Oh, it would just…

[Jerry and Laura laugh]

Mikey: Jamie, right now would be like – Jamie, Jamie, listen. If we did twenty-four hours, right now would be the time where we put some music on…

Jaime: Yes.

Mikey: …we’d all go get some food, come back…

Jaime: For twelve-hours, Mikey. For twelve hours.

Mikey: And then, Jamie…

Jaime: Yeah?

Mikey: …the next hour would be like, “Welcome to the Jamie and Mikey…”

Jaime: “With Mikey B.”

Mikey: “…late night rock and roll hour, with Jamie Lawrence and your host Mikey B.”

Laura: Yeah.

Mikey: And it would be so great.

Laura: It would be.

Mikey: We could have a little jazz playing in the background as we’re talking.

Jaime: Awww. And we would talk about nice…

Laura: By about 2:00 in the morning, it would be, [imitating Jamie] “Oh Mikey. Oh Mikey.”

Mikey: And we would be like, “Callers, come in and talk to us.” [laughs]

Laura: [imitating Jamie] “I’m so tired. I’m so tired. Let me go to bed, Mikey.”

Jaime: Laura, that impression is atrocious!

Jerry: And suddenly it would be, [imitating Jamie] “Mikey, Mikey, let me go to bed! Mikey, please! I’m tired!”

Mikey: Yeah, we’d have some good jazz that we have, like Charlie Parker. We’d have all this crazy – oh man, I have an entire jazz collection I want to listen to now. But you know how nice it would be to just be like, “So guys…”

Jaime: I know, it would be amazing.

Mikey: It would be so cool. But again, we’d have another twelve hours and then someone would have to come in and relieve us for – at hour…

Andrew: It would sound something like this.

[Audio clip plays quietly]

[Laura laughs]

Jaime: What is it? I can’t hear it.

Jerry: Too quiet.

Laura: It’s too quiet, Andrew.

Andrew: Oh really? Isn’t it coming through?

Jaime: Can’t hear a thing.

Andrew: [in a silly voice] Oopsies!

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: That’s weird. Let me try one more time.

[Audio clip plays quietly]

Andrew: It’s not working.

Mikey: I think if we did a twenty-four hour one, we’d probably end up – start watching movies together and having people join us.

[Jerry laughs]

Mikey: Because how cool would it be – because I can’t even connect to the Ustream Live, it says “Connection closed.”

Jerry: No, me neither.

Mikey: Yeah, I don’t even know how many people are in there. But how cool would it be to go, all right, everybody. We’re going to watch Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets or whatever we decide to watch. And we all decide to watch at the same time. So there’s literally a thousand of us watching the movie at the exact same time. And it’s not just like a commentary that some other podcasts do, but it’s a live commentary with thousands of people watching at the same time. And we can even take calls while we’re watching it, with people coming in and we can all put our tidbits – that would be amazing. But again, twelve-hour show, we did have the show actually planned out and stuff like that.

Andrew: Right.

Mikey: So we couldn’t do stuff like that. But that would happen at like…

Jerry: [unintelligible] for a movie-watching show.

Mikey: …hour seventeen. Yeah. So a movie-watching show would be kind of cool. Ooh, maybe we should just do a movie-watching show. Pick a movie and we watch it. [laughs] And we all just – everyone just…

Jerry: Welcome to MuggleCast Movie Club.

[Mikey laughs]

Andrew: Hey, I just realized – I don’t know how long we’ve been on it, but we are actually on the main page of Ustream right now. We are the first thing – we’re the stream that comes up when you visit Ustream.tv. So we’re being featured right now.

Laura: Oh cool.

Mikey: Wow.

Andrew: Very cool. Thanks, guys at Ustream! That’s pretty neat.

Jaime: Thank you very much.

Mikey: Well, it’s because we’ve been online…

Andrew: Yeah, I was wondering why the numbers were fluctuating so much, but now I see. So that’s very cool. Thanks to them for featuring us there. We have a new poll up. It’s not getting any – everyone check the poll. Listeners, check the poll. Would you like us to do regular live shows? And the choices are “Yes” or “No.” I’ve only gotten one vote though.

Mikey: I really think a movie-watching – you know what we should do? We should do it one week after Order of the Phoenix comes out. We should do a movie-watching show.

Andrew: Yeah.

Mikey: And we should do a commentary with it. I’m sure this DVD will be good where there’s an actual commentary that we like.

Andrew: Mhm.

Mikey: But we should really go ahead and do a commentary for Order of the Phoenix, all of us get on, I’ll tell all the fans what to do. We’ll find a time that’s not too late at night, not too early in the day for everyone. And we’ll all just start the movie at the exact same time, no pauses in it, and we’ll just go through and kind of like – not criticize the movie but just talk about it, like kind of what you do with your friends. Everyone’s around, joking around with the movies. I’d be like, “Come on. Really? Why is Luna Lovegood really being barefoot in the forest? Come on.”

[Jamie laughs]

Mikey: “She can so step on a rock and that hurts, really.”

Jaime: Yeah, that was just…

Mikey: [laughs] I don’t know. Maybe I’m just crazy.

Andrew: You’re crazy.

Mikey: There’s so many – I am crazy.

Jaime: [singing] “You know I’m crazy.”

Andrew: [laughs] Okay, people are saying they broke the chat – or the poll, and I think they did break the poll because I can’t seem to get it working now.

Mikey: Yeah, and there’s people just going crazy. I can’t even read it all.

Andrew: Yeah. So I think most people did say yes, so if we did start doing live shows, we would keep the call-ins to a minimum, meaning – I mean, we would still have people call in but we would still do organized discussions on our end first, then maybe open it up. So it’s something we’ll have to consider. It would definitely be fun. And someone is telling me now we’ve been number one since 2:00 PM on Ustream, but I don’t think that’s true.

Mikey: No, we’ve been number one but we haven’t been featured.

Andrew: Right, we haven’t been featured.

Mikey: We’ve been number one for quite a while because we had a load – it’s rated by the loudest screams.

Andrew: Oh, wait a second. Wait a second. Now Brickhouse Live is featured. Oh okay, thanks a lot, Ustream. [makes raspberry noises]

Jerry: [unintelligible] scream thing. I did wonder.

Andrew: Thanks. Well, we’re definitely winning in crowd volume.

Mikey: Well, you know why? It’s because Brickhouse Live is…

Andrew: Good?

Mikey: …witty. Well no…

Andrew: Well, and has video. [laughs]

Jaime: Guys, let’s not spend the last ten minutes boasting.

Andrew: We’re not boasting, we’re complaining.

Jaime: [laughs] Sounds like it.

Mikey: Woah, Chris Pirillo has a tech show nightly. I didn’t even know this.

Andrew: Yeah. So…

Mikey: [laughs] I should come to Ustream more often.

Andrew: That would definitely be something to do, live shows, more of, and – neato. So anything you guys want to talk about for the final nine minutes? I am seriously – I really can’t believe we’ve been here twelve hours. That’s kind of crazy.

Laura: I can’t believe you guys have been here for twelve hours.

Andrew: It doesn’t feel…

Laura: Like, I’m tired and I didn’t do the whole thing.

Andrew: This may sound weird, but it…

Jerry: [unintelligible] I’m knackered.

Andrew: [laughs] This may sound – okay guys, whatever. I get your point. This may sound weird, but I don’t feel like it’s been twelve hours.

Jaime: No, it hasn’t. Well, obviously it has.

[Laura laughs]

Jaime: But hours go so quickly because you’ll look at the time and it’ll be 3:15, then you’ll look again and it’ll be 3:27, then 3:35, and 3:46. So as soon as you know…

Laura: I don’t appreciate that…

Mikey: Guys, do you know what time I joined in? Because I think I’ve been in here for quite a while.

Andrew: Okay, Mikey, Jamie and I still trump you in hours.

Mikey: I know! But I just want to know…

Jaime: Easily, Mikey. Easily.

Mikey: …how many hours that I’ve put in. I just want to know – yeah, you guys got like – you’ve been here for twelve hours. I’ve been here for, what, six? Seven?

Jaime: About that, yeah.

Mikey: No, no, because I got here before – I got in at like noon, I think. I don’t know. Noon, my time.

Andrew: Yeah, something like that.

Laura: I don’t appreciate that, you guys. Stop.

Andrew: What? What are you saying? What do you mean?

Laura: People are being obnoxious in the chatroom. I don’t appreciate it. Especially you, John Thrasher! Stop it!

Andrew: Oh. He’s…

Mikey: Wow, there’s this nice echo on Laura’s voice. She sounds so like…

Jaime: Yeah.

Mikey:[in a deep voice] “John Thrasher, stop it!”

[Laura laughs]

Mikey: “Ahhh!” Actually, you know what? I got here a little bit before noon because there’s a message from Jamie talking about the live feed and everything.

Jaime: Well, there you go.

Mikey: So I’ve been here – so if it was noon and it’s nine o’clock now, I’ve been here nine hours. That’s not bad. I think that’s pretty good for me. Yeah? No?

Andrew: That’s pretty good.

Jaime: That is pretty good.

Mikey: See, then I could – yeah.

Andrew: Let’s take – I’m still kind of disappointed I didn’t get my ticket for J.K. Rowling. A little disappointed about that. However, Chloe – oh, Laura, while you’re away, Chloe actually got a ticket, got two tickets.

Laura: Yeah, she told me. She said that she was trying to give it to me and you were trying to steal it.

Andrew: Oh, wait a second. Wait a second. Wait a second.

Jerry: [laughs] Ooh!

Andrew: She never said she was going to give it to you. She said she was going to give it to me.

Jerry: Live on air.

Laura: She told me that you were trying to steal it, and then she told me that she was going to give it to the Make A Wish Foundation.

Andrew: Oh yeah, then her parents said to donate it.

Jaime: Well, can I…

Andrew: Okay, we just lost the connection on Ustream and I’ve been told by a couple of people they I can’t connect, so apparently Ustream is crashing right now.

Jaime: Okay, I’ve got a message from Celine, the girl who won the thing on vegetables.

Andrew: We’re not live right now.

Jaime: No, I know. I’m talking to you.

Andrew: Okay.

Mikey: Yeah, yeah, I got her address and she doesn’t have Skype.

Jaime: Okay. Well, we’ll just contact her after the show then and give her something.

[Laura laughs]

Mikey: Yeah. I have her e-mail and I have her mailing address, too. So you guys can mail her a T-shirt or something.

Jerry: Speaking of T-shirts, still haven’t got mine. Fail. Pickle Pack.

Andrew: Okay, apparently we’re live again.

Mikey: Ahhh.

Andrew: I think Ustream is going down, I think Ustream has had it with us.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: I wonder if they’ve ever had twelve-hour streams before. We were supposed to be on their high end stream, but – or their high end servers, but then once the thing crashed the first time we got put back down to the regular thing. So yeah, that’s what’s going on.

Mikey: Yeah, I think…

Andrew: I don’t know what else to say. I mean…

Jaime: I think…

Andrew: And I’m not trying to – what?

Jaime: I think we should wrap stuff up. We have four and a half minutes to go. Let’s say our goodbyes and talk about what has happened and what it’s become and how we love each other and all that kind of stuff.

Andrew: Actually, what I want to know is, who’s editing the show?

[Everyone laughs]

Mikey: That would be you, buddy.

Laura: Pretty sure it’s going to be you.

Jaime: That’s like a four-week job, isn’t it, Andrew?

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs] Luckily I’m in college.

Jaime: Ooh!

Mikey: Luckily you’re not going to have to do anything.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I won’t have anything else to do. I got nothing to do. So…

Mikey: So…

Andrew: I think Ustream is really having problems right now. Are there people in the chat listening? Does anyone have the chat open?

Mikey: I have the chat open.

Laura: I can’t tell, they’re just saying so much random stuff.

Andrew: Nonsense?

Laura: [laughs] Yeah.

Mikey: No, no, they can all hear us. Everyone is screaming, “Don’t edit,” “Unedited,” in the SPoT chat, in the Ustream chat. It’s like, “Yeah, this is working.”

Laura: Somebody keeps wanting to…

Andrew: That’s music to my ears, actually. Don’t edit? That’s the most beautiful thing someone’s ever actually said to me.

Jerry: Please don’t edit. Please don’t edit.

Mikey: I think it’s because this was such a special event.

Laura: Oh, Mason! Sorry. [laughs]

Mikey: Yeah, it was such a special event where it’s a live twelve-hour episode. No other Harry Potter podcast has attempted something like this.

Andrew: The words…

Mikey: I think they want it to be unique, special, unedited…

Andrew: Yeah, but it still has to be looked at a little bit. The words “Don’t edit a podcast” are more meaningful to me than say…

Jaime: “I love you.” [laughs]

Andrew: “I love you,” yeah. Or like a wedding proposal.

Jaime: Andrew, I don’t think it’s going to happen. Someone is going to get down on one knee to you one day and be like, “Don’t edit the show.”

Andrew: No, if I had to choose between getting married or not editing a show for one week, I’d actually choose not editing a show for one week.

Jaime: Well, I feel sorry for your future wife.

Jerry: I’m with you. [laughs]

Andrew: That’s – Jerry knows. Jerry does Fandom ForeCast.

Jerry: Yeah.

Andrew: Which I’m supposed to be on tomorrow.

Jerry: You are.

Mikey: Really?

Andrew: [in a silly voice] Starring me! Whoa! Taking the show back! [back to normal voice] Actually I’ve changed my mind. I’m podcasted out. No more.

[Jerry laughs]

Andrew: I’m kidding. I wouldn’t back out on that. Or would I? [takes a deep breath] Okay, I’m cramping right now. Is that bad?

Jerry: Yeah.

Laura: You’re cramping? Where are you cramping?

Andrew: In my stomach.

Laura: Well…

Andrew: Can we have 900 listeners, please? I’m tired of – we’re like…

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: …flirting with 900, and we’re at 880 right now.

Mikey: 882, 889…

Andrew: People, call your friends and tell them to listen in. We need a thousand people. We had over a thousand…

Jerry: It’s going down while you started saying it. [laughs]

Andrew: We had a thousand people watching us read a book, but this is not as interesting as reading a book?

Mikey: Yeah, who knows.

Andrew: I’ll tell you why. I’ll tell you why. Because we never posted this on MuggleNet.

Jerry: Yeah.

Andrew: If this was posted on MuggleNet…

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: …it would be a whole different ball game. So yeah.

Jaime: Actually, it would be a whole different ball game because it probably wouldn’t work.

Andrew: [laughs] It probably wouldn’t work, yeah.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: You’re right. You’re right.

Jerry: The server would crash. It would be overloaded.

Andrew: Okay. Yeah. I’m not taking anymore calls, so Lucas, stop calling me. And Sam, stop calling me. So…

Laura: My God! People in this chatroom…

Andrew: What are they saying?

Laura: They’re just…

Andrew: Do I need to lay the smackdown? What’s going on?

Laura: They’re just saying some very crude things. I’m just – I’m somewhat appalled. [laughs]

Mikey: Yeah, there’s – I try not to read the chatroom sometimes.

Laura: Yeah.

Mikey: They move so fast. I give mad props to whoever can read these chatrooms.

Jerry: It’s giving me a headache, yeah.

Mikey: They move so fast, they give me a headache. I can’t do it.

Andrew: I lost the connection. That’s weird.

Mikey: Yeah.

Laura: Uh-oh. They broke it again.

Mikey: Ustream broke.

[Laura laughs]

Mikey: Ustream.

Laura: [laughs] These people are like, “Oh my God! Only two minutes left!”

Andrew: I know, I know.

Mikey: Reparo! Reparo!

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: I want to be here for the big…

Jerry: [attempts an American accent] “Jamie, do an American accent!”

Andrew: Okay, connecting. Okay, we’re live again!

Mikey: We’re live again!

Andrew: Sorry. I’m really sorry about that. I don’t know what’s going on. I’m just going to have to e-mail the Ustream people and be like, “Hey, it was working great but…”

Mikey: It died.

Andrew: “…this stuff happened.” I’m shouting us all the way up right now. So let’s see, how much…

Mikey: How do you…

Show Close

Andrew: Wait, we got to do a countdown. There’s one minute left, guys. Twelve hour show. There’s one minute left since we started.

Laura: Gosh.

Andrew: The Go Daddy ad was playing. This is really sad. Are we going off air the second the countdown hits zero?

Jaime: Yes.

Andrew: I guess we have to, yeah.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah, that’s silly of me. Should I play “The Final Countdown” now or after the show ends?

Jaime: What about that song we talked about, Andrew?

Mikey: Wait, wait, wait, hold on. When you said “The Final Countdown” – as in the song?

Andrew: Yeah, the song. Yes, the song.

Mikey: Yes! [singing] “It’s the final -“ [stops singing] Okay, go.

Jaime: Andrew, are you playing the song we agreed on?

Andrew: Mason, thank you for doing the ads today. Mason is here now.

Laura: Awww, hey Mason!

Mikey: [in a high-pitched voice] Hey, Masey-poo!

Mason: Yeah, hi.

Mikey: [in a high-pitched voice] How are you doing? [laughs]

Laura: Awww.

Andrew: Thanks for doing the ads today, Mason.

Mikey: Hi, Masey! How are you doing?

Andrew: Thank you to everyone who’s been listening for the past twenty-four – [laughs] twenty-four. Ha! Twelve hours. Jamie, thanks for sticking with me for the last twelve hours.

Jaime: Yeah.

Andrew: You can go to bed now. Well, wait ten seconds and then you can go to bed.

[Jerry laughs]

Jaime: Andrew, are you playing the song we agreed on or are you not playing that song?

Andrew: What song? Name your song!

Jaime: The song you said you were going to play…

[Laura laughs]

Jaime: …but then you’re like, “Oh my God, I can’t download it.”

Andrew: There’s been a lot of songs. Three, two, one. Thank you, everybody!

Laura: Goodnight!

Mikey: Bye!

Jaime: Goodnight! Thank you for listening!

Mason: Go Daddy dot com.

[Everyone laughs]

[“The Final Countdown” by Europe plays]

Mikey: I’m going to sing along.

[Song continues]

Andrew: I’ll join you, Mikey.

Mikey: Yes! You’re going to join me? Good.

Andrew: I don’t know the lyrics though.

Mikey: “It’s the final countdown.” That’s all I know.

Andrew: Is there any lyrics?

Mikey: I think it’s just “The final countdown.”

Andrew: Oh, here we go! One, two, three, four. We’re leaving – oh, I was completely wrong.

Laura: I don’t think there are, either.

Mikey: No, I think the only lyrics are “The final countdown.” “It’s the final countdown.”

Andrew: Yeah, but it starts with “We’re leaving together.”

Mikey: Oh, is it?

Andrew: Mason, do a Go Daddy ad over this right now! Go!

[Song continues]

Andrew: Mason?

Mason: Yeah, yeah, what’s up?

Andrew: Do a Go Daddy right now. Quick!

Mason: All right. Listen up, MuggleCast listeners!

[Andrew laughs]

Mason: I have some excellent news for you. For only $3.59 a month for twelve months, you can get…

[Laura laughs]

Mason: …GoDaddy.com’s economy package. What’s that?

Mikey: [sings with the song] “Together!”

Mason: You don’t know what the economy package is?

Andrew: [laughs] Okay, ad over.

[Jerry and Laura laugh]

[Andrew and Mikey sing badly along to the song]

Laura: Oh, my mind right now.

Mikey: I’m playing air guitar right now. It’s awesome.

[Andrew and Mikey continue to sing badly along]

Mikey: Booyeahyeah! Oh wait, wait, you know what? It’s not Booyeahyeah, it’s Boomshakalaka.

[Andrew continues to sing badly along]

Andrew: [after pausing the song] This is the final one for real, folks.

[Song continues]

Mikey: Andrew, isn’t this song like eight minutes long?

Andrew: What did you say?

Mikey: Isn’t this song like eight minutes long?

Andrew: No, it ends in – well, let’s just skip to the end.

Mikey: Yeah.

[Andrew and Mikey continue to sing badly along]

Andrew: Woah, fade out!

Mikey: Goodbye!

Andrew: [singing] “Goodbye, everybody! I’ve got to go!” [stops singing] Okay.

Laura: Okay, Andrew. You’re done. [laughs]

Andrew: See, I can’t let go. I just can’t let go. Okay…

[Go Daddy ad plays]

Andrew: Woah.

[Go Daddy ad stops]

Andrew: Okay.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Goodnight, everyone! [laughs]

Laura: Bye!

Mikey: Bye!

Jerry: Cherrio!

Andrew: Oh my God, somebody kill me. [sighs] I mean – wait, we’re still live.

Laura: [laughs] Are we still streaming?

Andrew: [laughs] No, I’m just kidding. We’re not…

Laura: Okay.

Mason: That would be terrible if…

Mikey: Dude, that was awesome. I am so happy.

Laura: Oh my God.

Jerry: Wow. That was fun.

Mason: Well done.

Mikey: Awww, you know what we should have done? Dude, there’s so many clips – you realize there’s so many clips you could have done for the end, like “We did it! We did it! Yeah!”

Andrew: [laughs] Wasn’t that Dora The Explorer?

Mikey: I’m thinking from Star Wars. Like, “We did it!” like at the end when they blow up the Death Star and everything.

Andrew: I don’t watch…

Mikey: Like “We did it!” Everyone is excited, you know? There’s so many endings…

[Audio ends]