Transcript 069

MuggleCast 69 Transcript

Show Intro

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[Intro music plays]

Andrew: Because Jo obviously listens to Micah, thank you, Maja, 15, of Slovenia, this is MuggleCast Episode 69 for December 22nd, 2006.

[Music continues to play]

Andrew: Hello, everyone! Welcome to this special Friday night edition of MuggleCast. There is no time to waste, we’ve got to get right into it. I’m Andrew Sims.

Jamie: I’m Jamie Lawrence.

Kevin: I’m Kevin Steck.

Eric: I’m Eric Scull.

Laura: I’m Laura Thompson.

Micah: And I’m Micah Tannenbaum.

[Music continues to play]


[NBC “Nightly News” music plays]

Micah: Breaking news at this hour, we have a new photo of Dan Radcliffe currently on display at the Michael Birt photo exhibition in Fulham, London.

I’m just kidding.

The real breaking news: JK Rowling yesterday revealed the title of the seventh and final installment in the Harry Potter series, Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. There is no word yet on a release date, but people should note it took Jo roughly six months after revealing the title of Half-Blood Prince to announce the date it would hit bookshelves and then another seven months before the book actually came out.

However, I don’t think we’ll have to wait this long this time around. Plenty of discussion on all of this later in the show. Hopefully, Jo updates her Diary in the next few days to share some of her thoughts.

Speaking of Book Seven, Slash Film has a new interview with Prisoner of Azkaban director Alfonso Cuaron and another film director Guillermo Del Toro. In it, Cuaron discusses whether Harry could possibly die in the final book. He said:

“I don’t know, I had this same conversation with someone the other day about that. In one hand it makes sense, in the other hand – how do you finish Harry Potter if you kill Harry? What is the resolution of the tale? How is she going to finish the seven books and not have an temptation to do an eighth book? I don’t know. And that kind of stuff, I have a really good relationship with JK but I don’t mess with that.”

He goes on to mention a recent phone call he received from Jo congratulating him on his film Children of Men. He said:

“She really loved Children of Men. And we started talking and I said that it was a tough process doing the movie because of the brutality of what you’re doing, of what we’re picturing. And then she conveyed to me, ‘yes, yes, it’s been hard for me but when you do writing about the hard stuff, you have to sleep with that.’ But I don’t go into details.”

That’s all the news for this December 22nd, 2006 edition of MuggleCast. Happy Holidays everyone! Back to the show!

Andrew: All right, thank you Micah-Tan the Anchorman.

Micah: You’re welcome.

Happy Holidays

Andrew: You know, it’s Episode 69 of MuggleCast and this was originally going to be our Christmas show and it still is for about…

Jamie: So, Merry Christmas.

Kevin: [laughs]Merry Christmas.

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, so Merry Christmas.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Happy Holidays, actually. Lets be fair. Happy Holidays, everyone.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: We hope you all get what you want. That just about does it for the holiday part of the show because, as everyone knows by now, the title of Book Seven was released. I can’t believe I’m actually saying, “The title of Book Seven was released.” This is the beginning of the end, guys.

Kevin: It is.

Jamie: It is.

Andrew: And I forgot to boast that we have six people here in the room this week, in the studio. We got a little extra MuggleCast money thanks to those Step Up ads, so we flew everyone out. Except for Ben, he had a debate this week. But everyone is here, everyone is in the studio. We had a little holiday party a little bit earlier, featured soda and Doritos.

Micah: Try the eggnog.

Laura: It was very festive.

Andrew: Eggnog. I didn’t like the eggnog.

[Kevin laughs]

Eric: Yeah, but the ham was to die for.

Andrew: [laughs] Yes. Ben sent it direct from Kansas.

[Everyone laughs]

Kevin: He slaughtered it himself.

Andrew: He killed a pig for us.

[Laura and Eric laugh]

Eric: He killed a boar.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: So, we thank him in advance for that. So… [laughs] So…

Eric: That was very nice.


Andrew: We’ll get to our Book Seven discussion in a minute. We just want to remind everyone first to vote for us on Podcast Alley, and of course the new month is coming up. So don’t forget to place your vote once a month, just one vote. And we like being up top there to help spread the word about the show.

There is also a new way to help us spread the word about the show, Digg Podcasts. Over at they have a new Podcasting section. We want to get up in the ranks over there too, so people who are into Harry Potter that visit social bookmarking websites like Digg can subscribe to our show and join the craze. So, that’s that.

And also, this is very important, MuggleCast t-shirts are going out of sale. This is the final week that we can ask everyone to purchase a MuggleCast t-shirt, like the GoDaddy and Step Up ads that you heard at the beginning of this show, the t-shirts help support the show week to week. Like for example, flying everyone out here to my house to record the show.

Eric: Yep.

Andrew: And it also helps fund our holiday parties, although next year I think we’re going to skip out on the eggnog.

Jamie: And our professional audio equipment as well, don’t forget that.

Andrew: Audio equipment, yeah. We have top notch audio equipment. So, we thank everyone. And if you’re thinking about it, now is the time to buy, because they are going out of sale quick. And then once sales have stopped, we will figure out any problems that people are having with their orders.

Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows

Andrew: All right, so, once again, Harry Potter – the title to Harry Potter Book Seven was released today, Thursday. We’re recording Thursday. Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. [pronounces as “hollows”]

Jamie: Hallows.

Kevin: Hallows.

Laura: Hallows, not hollows.

Eric: Hallows.

Andrew: Hallows. [pronounces as hollows again]

Eric: Hallows! Don’t make the same mistake.

Andrew: Whatever.

Eric: Don’t make the same mistake.

Andrew: You know, I’ll tell you what, guys. I don’t even know where to start here. I guess we’ll start with number one on our list, [laughs] seems the most logical.

Eric: Well, wait a minute. What about us? What do we think about it? Seriously.

Andrew: Here’s what I immediately thought: Sorcerer’s Stone, an item, Chamber of Secrets, a place, Prisoner of Azkaban, a place, Goblet of Fire, an item, Order of the Phoenix, a…

Jamie: [laughs] How is Prisoner of Azkaban a place, Andrew?

Laura: [laughs] How is a person a…

Andrew: Or a place, a place.

Jamie: No, a person. A person.

Laura: [laughing] Prisoner of Azkaban is a person.

Kevin: It’s a person.

Andrew: [laughs] You know, I’ve been out all day. I’m just picturing the Azkaban. Anyway, Goblet of Fire, an item, Order of the Phoenix, a group, Half-Blood Prince, a person.

Jamie: A place.

Andrew: Yeah, and a place.

[Laura and Micah laugh]

Andrew: What does this mean? What… Could this be a person, place, or item?

Jamie: Or thing? It could be anything, that’s the thing.

Andrew: It’s very interesting. Yes.

Jamie: Couldn’t it – I mean, we only really found out, apart from the obvious ones. Goblet of Fire is pretty surely a goblet, the Order of the Phoenix, an Order is usually a group of people, Prisoner of Azkaban was obviously a person. I think she’s – Chamber of Secrets a chamber of secrets, incidentally.

[Andrew and Kevin laugh]

Jamie: But we still have some idea. Philosopher’s Stone, we can do some research and find out. The only real research we can do into Deathly Hallows is etymo…

Laura: Pulling up our dictionaries, basically.

Jamie: Etymological, finally got it. Yeah, exactly. And working out the words. It could be anything really. I don’t know if she’s… And she has clearly done that to enhance the mystique surrounding Book Seven, because we could tell slightly on the other books. But in this, we’re just, we’ve just got no clue.

Laura: When I first saw it I was – I didn’t feel disappointed or anything, but when I looked at it I was…I didn’t think that it was nearly as precise as any of the other titles have been, I thought it was a lot more enigmatic. And we started getting all these e-mails pouring in with all these suggestions and ideas and stuff, and when we started going out and looking up “hallow” and what it actually could mean and the actual connotations behind it, it started to kind of take full form and kind of – all these theories started coming through, like could Hallows be Horcruxes because the definition of “hallow” is “to make holy or to consecrate.” It could be a holy item, and obviously a Horcrux is something holy to Voldemort. So, it could obviously be surrounding those because obviously Horcruxes can be deathly. They’re created by killing, so.

Andrew: Right.

Laura: That’s one idea.

Holy Trouble?

Micah: Do you think JK Rowling is going to get in trouble for referencing holy items?

Eric: Well, holy, I have a second definition for “hallows” which means to respect or honor greatly or revere. Which kind of made me think of respected magic and the reverent magic as in the ancient magic, and things that we don’t even really know about. But the Hallows being this respected, kind of again enigmatic. But the whole mysticism behind all these events that have taken place have to do with Voldemort and his Horcruxes. And the first word Deathly just being Harry crossing as close as he has ever come in between life and death. And that…

Jamie: Do you think that that means… Sorry, I thought you were finished.

Eric: No, no. That’s fine. I mean…

Is This Title All Encompassing?

Jamie: I was going to say, do you think that that means that this title is more sort of overarching for the series as a whole rather than specific to its book? Because it just seems like it could be an umbrella term for the entire – the key to the…

Eric: It’s true.

Jamie: …entire… If you understand the title behind it, than you understand the secret to the book. Because, maybe, I don’t know.

Eric: You know, I think it could be both. I think JKR may have become so good at it that she has just done Deathly Hallows being something, as we have in a rebuttal-type thing, for this book but also an umbrella term like you said, Jamie.

Jamie: Okay.

Eric: I think it’s just, yeah.

Jamie: Yeah.

Micah: Well, do you think she is taking creative license with the word too?

Andrew: She could be.

Taking Creative License

Micah: Because when you look it up, “hallow” is usually used as a verb, isn’t it?

Jamie: Oh, yeah. I mean, she has clearly made, you know, Deathly Hallows isn’t a phrase you’d ever find anywhere else apart from the title of Book Seven. It’s like, that is the thing. She seems to have – however much you read it into the dictionary definitions, that’s clearly an etymology that she has created. You know?

Laura: We actually… Oh sorry, Jamie. I didn’t mean to talk over you there. [laughs]

Jamie: That’s okay. I was just saying things, I couldn’t think of anything either.

Laura: Andrew will kill me for that later.

When The Veil Between The Worlds Grows Thin

Laura: This was actually from Alicia, and she said that she looked up Hallow on Google and she said that, “By Google’s definition, a Hallow is the beginning of the witches’ year, when the veil between the worlds grows thin and the spirits of the dead may return to earth.”

Jamie: Emphasis on the word veil?

Laura: Yes. Veil.

Jamie: Emphasis huge on the word veil.

[Eric laughs]

Laura: This has got me so excited.

Eric: Yeah.

Laura: Because you know that I love to harp on about how the Department of Mysteries is very, very important and how the Veil is going to play a pretty big role in Book Seven. So, is it possible that people are going to actually start [laughs] coming back from behind the veil in the seventh book like all these spirits?

Andrew: I just can’t believe that, because then the book just really becomes unreal, and like we were saying earlier, if Jo is skewing the words a little bit, then I think that this is definitely a possible theory. It’s excellent. [laughs]

Eric: I just don’t know. I mean, this book is – this has got to be a massive book. You know what? I’m scared, my primary emotion right now is scared, and do you know why?

Andrew: Because you’re going to be locked up in your room reading it for four days? Weeks?

[Jamie laughs]

Eric: No, I’m not scared, I’m actually looking forward to that. But I’m scared, because if you think about it, Jo has typically been, I would say a little courteous, to give us…

Jamie: A clue?

Eric: Yes, she has killed characters. She has killed characters in the past, but usually she’s done it at the end of the book. Right now, with Book Seven, we have a death on the front cover.

Laura: I don’t think…

Jamie: What do you mean?

Deathly Discussion

Eric: We have a death on the front cover. Deathly Hallows.

Jamie: No, it could just be descriptive. It could just be descriptive.

Eric: No, but the word death is on the front cover. We have a death on the front cover.

Laura: No, it says deathly, which implies something can cause death, and it doesn’t necessarily mean that there’s saying that there’s a death, although I’m sure there will be. But…

Eric: [ laughs] I…

Micah: I think if they’re representative of the Horcruxes, then there definitely could be what Laura just said in terms of representing death.

Jamie: Death to the Hallows, yeah.

Eric: It has everything to do with immortality and life and death, and it seems like all the stuff that Voldemort’s been doing since Book One. I was thinking about that. Sorcerer’s Stone or Philosopher’s Stone, this whole series has really been about – you think Deathly Hallows has been this really sinister, doesn’t really fit with the rest of the series type thing, but it’s like a coming to realization that it has always been about life and death.

Kevin: Yeah.

Jamie: It has, yeah.

All Hallows Eve

Laura: Do you think there’s any connection between – we know that Lily and James died on Halloween, which is also known as All Hallows Eve. Do you think there’s any connection there?

Eric: Well, it’s just the etymology of the word. I mean, All Hallows Eve being… I mean, you could make the connection to…

Laura: Right, but it depends on how she’s using the word.

Eric: Yeah, that’s true.

Andrew: Yeah.

Jamie: Doesn’t it come back to Alicia’s point that Halloween is the day when the boundaries between the…

Laura: Dead and the living.

Jamie: Dead and the living, yeah, are the weakest.

Andrew: Jamie, maybe, you were saying how the title might encapsulate all seven books.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: Maybe it has multiple meanings for just the one book.

Jamie: What? Oh, yeah. I mean…

Andrew: We also have to think about – we’ll get to this in a minute – but we also have to think about that she was debating. This was one of two.

Micah: Three.

Andrew: Three, three. She had three titles, and this is one of them.

Jamie: Yeah. Yeah.

Micah: Don’t worry, she told me the other two.

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: So, at some point I’ll let you guys know what they are.

Andrew: Okay.

Jamie: That was good. They’ll be on e-Bay later tonight.

Does Jo Really Listen to Micah?

Laura: Micah, has she told you the release date yet, Micah?

Kevin: Yeah, it’s very similar.

Micah: No. Yeah, where is the love here, guys? How many times have I asked her?

Andrew: Let’s hand Micah the props that he deserves. Micah, what exactly did you say last week on the show?

Micah: Well, I said last week at the end of the news that I noticed she had updated her site after I had asked for something. Kevin, Laura and I were having a discussion about, I think it was innocents and traitors, and I mentioned something about her updating her site because it
had been so long since October 31. And sure enough, she did her little diary update last week.

Andrew: And you know what? At that point I was convinced that there was not going to be anything coming.

Micah: Right.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: You know, as a surprise.

Micah: And then at the end of the news last week, I said, “You know, she made an update, maybe I’ll have to ask for something big for Christmas from her.”

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: It’s a few days before Christmas, and what do we get? I don’t know.

Andrew: Micah, there’s a weird pattern going on. I’m, you know…

Micah: Think about what happened the first time I asked in my “What’s Buggin’ Micah” section. A few days later, she updates her site. I mention something about Halloween, she updates her site. This is going four for four right here.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: I don’t know.

Andrew: On the other hand

Laura: You know what, Micah? You know what I really appreciate? You had her update her site on my birthday.

Kevin: Awww.

Laura: That was really nice of you. I really appreciated that.

Eric: Awww.

Micah: Well, that wasn’t my intention, but… [laughs]

Laura: Thanks.

Eric: Send your payments to Micah and he will have Jo update her site for you.

Laura: On your birthday.

Eric: Specifically for you, yeah.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: You guys have any other theories about the title?

Back to the Title Discussion

Kevin: Well, I was thinking, and I think I said it to Laura, I think that the meaning of the title is embedded, once again, in the middle of the book. There’s not much we can say – no, there’s not much we can say looking from…

Jamie: Actually Kevin, it’s embedded in the spine of the book.

[Everyone laughs]

Kevin: No, it’s, what I’m saying is, we knew with prior books. There were hints given to us in the previous books that we had read that could allows us to make theories on the next title. I think that we haven’t seen any of what this title means, if that makes sense? Clearly.

Laura: Well, yeah. You kind of mentioned to me today that you thought it was like Half Blood Prince, where we didn’t really know what that meant.

Kevin: Right.

Laura: Until we read the book. Because a lot of people kind of assumed it was an actual prince, and it turned out not to be.

Eric: Well, kind of.

Jamie: Yeah, yeah. The thing is, we can so easily misinterpret titles, but this seems like, I don’t know. For me, it sums up the mood of the, well, I assume it’s going to sum up the mood of the book.

Andrew: Oh, yeah.

Micah: Yeah.

Kevin: Yeah.

Jamie: But you know, Eric, as you were saying, it’s got death on the front. But more so, it’s just got, you can’t call a book “Something, Something and the Deathly Hallows” without having destruction, death, and not a very happy time throughout the entire book. I don’t know. I think – sorry, go on. I can’t actually think of it.

Eric: I almost don’t think I would want to read – I mean, I don’t expect to read any happy moments in this book. Can you imagine reading a happy scene in a book called Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows? Or imagine the press for it?

Micah: So, what about the wedding?

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Well, the wedding, hopefully nothing bad happens.

Jamie: It’ll be like Kill Bill.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: It’s going to be a blood bath. Yeah.

Eric: The bride gets shot.

Jamie: A deadly wizard assassination squad.

Andrew: What makes me a little skeptical about analyzing the title so much, and I know that’s what people want to hear right now, but the Half-Blood Prince title – I think we’ve talked about this before – it doesn’t really sum up the book. It was one part of the book, but it wasn’t
the main part. That’s really what all of the books have been about so far. That’s what the titles have been.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: And then suddenly we jump onto Half-Blood Prince, which is just a book that Harry finds. I mean, he uses it to his advantage, but… I don’t…

Kevin: Yeah, but don’t you think there’s a possibility that it will be a pivotal part of the series? I mean…

Andrew: I think it will, but I don’t even know if it’s a pivotal… Oh! You mean The Half-Blood Prince?

Kevin: Right. For all you know, the reason why she named it that is because he is going to play such a large role in the next book that you can’t name it any other thing. You know what I mean?

Andrew: That’s true. That is true, yeah.

Jamie: Hey!

Kevin: She’s trying to draw your focus to the fact that hey, although I’m just breezing over this and lightly touching this topic, you know, it’s going to play a big role in the series.

Micah: Well, I agree…

Jamie: Digressing completely… Sorry, go.

Micah: No. I was going to actually say that I agree with you Jamie about this title is more, to me, it seems like it’s more all encompassing about what this final book is going to be about as opposed to…

Andrew: Uh huh.

Micah:Half-Blood Prince or Order of the Phoenix, which was about one specific item or one specific group or one specific person. I don’t see Deathly Hallows as being necessarily a group of people or something like that that we’re going to learn about. I think it’s more all encompassing in the sense of the book.

Kevin: Like a theme?

Micah: Yeah.

Kevin: Yeah.

Laura: I think that’s possible as well. I just liked it because I think it automatically sets a very, very dark tone, and I think that’s something that the last book definitely needs.

Andrew: Yeah.

Jamie: Also…

Laura: I’m very happy with it.

Eric: It’ll just be in like the press. Like in the lines for the seventh book, seeing all the ten- year old kids, you know the eight-year olds and the Harry Potter wizards with their books and it’s like, Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows and all these kids are with them, you know? That’ll just look interesting.

Laura: You know what though? I like that.

Andrew: It’s about time. [laughs]

Laura: Because I think that children are greatly underestimated in what they can handle.

Andrew: Uh huh.

Laura: And I think that saying that kids can’t handle death is ridiculous because they absolutely can.

Eric: There’s clearly a… There’s one thing, you know, to say kids can’t handle death and there’s another thing for destroying their childhood, or not destroying, but taking them out of the childhood scheme of things. Childhood is an amazing thing and when you’re playing to that audience, you know? I never thought that Harry Potter was a children’s book but a lot of people I guess, you know, did and, you know, Deathly Hallows is like, to understand some of the real serious sinister – it was just more sinister than I was prepared for. I mean…

Kevin: Yeah, but like every book it’s sort of up to the parents to make the judgment call on whether it’s appropriate for their children.

Eric: It’s true.

Kevin: So, like any other book, you know, the parents should be reading it first saying, you know, “Is this what I want my children to be reading or not? And if so then I’ll let them have it, otherwise I’ll let them wait a couple of years.”

Jamie: You see…

Laura: Yeah. It’s the parents choice. Absolutely.

Jamie: But… Yeah, and let them decide for themselves.

Kevin: It’s just a parents responsibility. Yep.

Jamie: But.. But… You know, children should be taught early in life that, you know, life is a complete disappointment to them. It’s just full of, you know, problems.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: No, it’s true.

Laura: It is.

Jamie: And, you know, death in a book is, you know? No okay, seriously though. I think, and this could be a very obvious point but I think we need to remember, and I often forget, that, you know, for example the title of the fifth book isn’t Order of the Phoenix. It is still Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, so you need to remember that, you know, all of these are linked to Harry Potter. He encounters all of them, and every single one. So, it’s like the Deathly Hallows, it could be not descriptive because it’s Harry Potter and the…. So, Deathly Hallows couldn’t be a metaphor for something or a description of whatever because it wouldn’t make sense saying Harry Potter and the. So, I mean I’d like to say that it’s a physical thing or a place.

Eric: Or a set of things.

Jamie: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Laura: I hope it’s not a place. I really hope it’s not a place.

Jamie: It’s still identified with Harry, you know?

Eric: It’s right next to Godric’s Hollow there. Deathly Hallows.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Laura: Gosh.

Andrew: There’s like a sign.

Laura: Yeah. [laughs]

Andrew: Godric’s Hollow this way.

Laura: Deathly Hallow this way.

Andrew: Deathly Halos this way. Hallows.

Laura: Halo? [laughs]

Eric: Halos. We’re going to be saying that like Deathly Hallows, you know, if we accidentally slip up and say Deathly Hollows, Deathly Shallows. Andrew and I were talking. We both said Deathly Shallows today. I mean, we know…

Andrew: I didn’t say shallow. I’m just telling everyone now, I’m going to screwing it up a lot

Laura: Yeah, hollows.

Andrew: Because all I can think of is Halo the video game whenever I read that title.

[Micah and Laura laugh]

Andrew: So…

Eric: Deathly Halo.

[Jamie laughs]

Hallows vs. Hollow

Micah: Well, maybe we should address that for a moment because a lot of people wrote in about it.

Laura: Yeah.

Micah: A lot of people seem to be confusing.

Kevin: Oh, yeah.

Jamie: You’re saying that Harry and Ron just sit on their X-Box 360s for the entire thing…

Eric: …and play Halo.

Jamie: …and play Halo.

Andrew: No, Godric’s Hollow you’re talking about, right?

Micah: Yeah.

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric: Well, there’s…

Micah: They’re not the same word.

Eric: Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Laura: Now, a lot of people wrote in saying, “Oh, do you think this has a connection to Godric’s Hollow?” And I’m like, “No.” Well, I mean it could.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Kevin: Well, it’s an understanding…

Andrew: That’s a nice response. Laura. [laughs]

Laura: It’s an understandable mistake.

Kevin: Yeah, it’s legitimate.

Laura: But, I think that everyone needs to remember that “hallows” and “hollows” are not the same thing.

Eric: Well, and it’s kind of though. I mean it’s not kind of, but in the same context it shares context. When you think of hollow as being empty and revered, a silent place like a church of revered magic, an ancient magic and things like that. Hollow, Godric’s Hollow, can that tie it back to it? Am I solving the mystery? I don’t know, but what I’m saying is that, you know, hollow as being empty and, you know, foreboding kind of just adds to the mysticism, the feel of what I imagine the seventh book is going to be like.

Most Ominous Title of the Three?

Andrew: Right. Maybe, you know I’m thinking about it now. Maybe this is the most ominous title of all three.

Laura: It is.

Kevin: It is, yeah.

Laura: I think so.

Andrew: [laughs] Well, we don’t know the other two but…

Jamie: Or seven you mean. Oh, sorry I thought you…

Kevin: Oh, okay. All of them.

Laura: Oh, I thought you were talking about all the books.

Kevin: Yeah, same here.

Andrew: [laughs] No.

Jamie: [laughs] Andrew, you really need to re, you know, think.

Andrew: No, but it’s true. If she’s had three titles, what was the deciding factor on this one? It might be because it’s the most ominous, the one that gets the fans most excited because it’s so broad. You can’t…

Jamie: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Andrew: You’re going to be even more excited. For example, if Half Blood Prince was called, now I’m just speculating. If Half Blood Prince was called The Search for Horcruxes or something. Or just Harry Potter and the Horcruxes.

Eric: Harry Potter and the Great Snog Adventure.

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: Harry Potter and Severus Snape’s Old Potions Book. [laughs]

Andrew: Yeah.

Jamie: Yeah.

Kevin: But, I think that she may have chosen it just for that reason.

Jamie: Yeah, do you… But also, do you think it is because, like if you have Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets and you release that title, you can’t then go back and write out the Chamber of Secrets even if you hated it so much. But, Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, you know, you can – it’s the kind of title where you can make it mean anything. So, perhaps she isn’t committing herself more then like if she had Harry Potter and the Final Showdown in Godric’s Hollow because then, you know, she can’t go back. And also, releasing a title she can’t change it. This is absolutely set in stone now.

Andrew: Right.

Jamie: So, I think it’s also because she just doesn’t want to commit herself to one story line because she must be writing Book Seven, you know, completely different than the other ones where she has to tie up all the loose ends. She has to go back, change stuff.

Eric: Well, just on…

Andrew: Yeah. Well, that’s interesting about this book.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Because the stuff that you’re writing, you’re finished with and there’s no going back in a future book to change someone’s view of a certain topic or whatever.

Jamie: Well, precisely, yeah.

Eric: Not that she really does that.

Andrew: No, but you know what I mean. Like, once you write something in this book, for example – well I don’t know. I can’t think of anything right now, but it’s just everything is set in stone. It’s final and there’s no going back whereas with the other books maybe someone’s opinion could change on something. Or…

Kevin: Yeah. She had room to finagle the characters. Yeah.

Laura: There’s no room. Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah. What’s in this book is going to be Harry Potter forever.

Eric: That’s true.

Andrew: That’s how she’s going to leave it.

Jamie: Exactly, yeah.

Eric: It’s true.

Laura: There’s no room for clarification outside of interviews and such, essentially.

Kevin: No.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: Which I can’t even imagine what she’s going to do around press time for interviews and stuff.

Laura: Oh, man.

Kevin: And even then, the interviews you can’t really expect a normal reader to be reading the interviews.

Laura: No.

Andrew: Right.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: Mhm.

Kevin: When your normal person just picks up the book and starts reading it, they’re going to get an impression of the book based on what’s written in it and she has to make sure it’s correct. Otherwise, you know?

Jamie: And also, it kind of, I don’t know, it has a metaphysical meaning, I’m sure, over just the literary meaning as well. She could argue that it represents – I mean, if you take the word “hallow” to mean the veil between the worlds, than you can also take it to mean the divide between good and evil, the divide between Harry and Voldemort.

Kevin: Yeah.

Jamie: And that, you know, it could mean so many things on so many different levels. Which I think is a good thing. I don’t think it’s good to have Harry Potter and the… and then…

Eric: And then specific…

Jamie: …and then exactly what’s going to happen…

Eric: Yeah.

Jamie: Or one pivotal thing. So, I think it’s a very, very, very interesting title.

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: Well, I have a question.

Laura: That said…oh, go ahead, Micah.

Andrew: Yes, Micah.

Are Hallows the Horcruxes?

Micah: Well, if you take it to mean that Hallows are the Horcruxes and you take the word before it, Deathly, as in causing death. I mean, you look at the fact that R.A.B died from the locket, Dumblehands – Dumbledore’s hand was dying…

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: …from the ring and maybe he was doomed to die anyway, and you think…

Jamie: Wait, Micah.

Micah: Yeah?

Jamie: Sorry. I don’t – are you sure? R.A.B didn’t actually die from…

Laura: I don’t think we know how he died.

Jamie: The locket…

Eric: Well he…

Jamie: It didn’t kill him. It just…

Eric: It could have been in the pursuit of Horcruxes.

Laura: Yeah, he could have…

Jamie: Oh, I think he was – yeah.

Micah: Or after he destroyed it he died from…

Kevin: Something related.

Micah: Whatever.

Eric: Maybe…

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: I always assumed he died from drinking…

[Kevin laughs]

Laura: …the stuff.

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: Well, my point is perhaps tied to each Horcrux is going to be somebody’s death.

Eric: Oh.

Andrew: Hmmm.

Micah: Perhaps you can’t destroy a Horcrux without somebody dying. I mean, perhaps Harry just got lucky in Chamber of Secrets with the diary.

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric: So, you create one by killing somebody and then somebody else has to die for it? That kind of sucks.

Micah: It’s just a suggestion.

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: That’s one way of putting it, yeah.

Eric: Well, no, I mean, that’s cool. But, that would really stink if that were the case. Could be.

When Will Book Seven Be Released?

Laura: That said, do you think we’re going to be seeing Book Seven next year?

Kevin: Oh, geez.

Andrew: Yeah, this is going…

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: …to go into a whole discussion.

Kevin: Same.

Jamie: I would love to not see it next year. It’s over after this.

Laura: I know.

Jamie: It is actually over.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: It’s so sad, but…

Andrew: And just the timing would be bad in the sense of school and the movie next summer.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: And…

Eric: That’s what I hate about it.

Laura: What do you mean school? No one is going to be in school.

Andrew: Well, hold on, nobody…

Eric: They totally ruined…

Andrew: Now, wait a second. Yeah, what? Go ahead, Eric, finish that.

Eric: They ruined 7-7-07. We talked about this. By doing a movie on 7-12 they don’t – they aren’t going to do the book on 7-7-07, and if they do it’ll be really stupid because everything will be jumbled. There will be no way to get the information across, what was good, what you like about it, everybody will be forced to condense their opinions and not elaborate on anything. And they’ll – it’s too much too soon.

Kevin: Yeah, but I mean…

Micah: But I think, as Jamie so eloquently put it last time, she can’t just pull the book out of her *BLEEP*

[Everyone laughs]

Jamie: Oh, thank you, Micah.

Micah: You know what I mean? If it’s not ready by then, it’s not ready.

Jamie: Oh, yeah. Well, it’s true.

Eric: Well, what do you guys think? Because on her website when – I’m sorry, Laura. When Micah just asked her to do that little blurb thing and she did about…

[Andrew, Kevin, Laura, and Micah laughs]

Andrew: Well, let’s…

Eric: Sorry, that may have been jumping to a few conclusions, [Micah laughs] but I’m sure we’ve made them already on this show. So, when JKR wrote that thing in her diary about doing the scenes that have been planned for 12 years, do you think that means she’s towards the beginning or towards the end of the novel?

Andrew: I think that has got to be towards the end.

Eric: Do you think?

Jamie: Yeah, it must be.

Andrew: Because if you’ve had this story in the back of your head, this part of the story, for the past 12 years, you’re not thinking about…

Kevin: Yeah, absolutely.

Andrew: …the middle when you’re looking for – I mean, I don’t want to say fluff, but because…

[Jamie laughs]

Andrew: maybe she has had the final book all mapped out in her head, so I don’t know.

Eric: Did she start by writing the in-between places? I mean, what exactly do you guys think is the process? Because we know…

Jamie: Well, she said that…

Eric: She has had the last chapter for a long time.

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric: And she can tweak it, but…

Jamie: She has to make the rest of the book fit in with the final chapter rather than the other way around if you think about it.

Kevin: Well, I think she…

Jamie: Sorry.

Kevin: I think the final chapter is – she knows where she wants to go, you know what I mean? So…

Eric: Well, she’s not done.

Jamie: Well, I hope she does by now. After six books.

[Andrew, Eric, Jamie, and Micah laugh]

Kevin: Well, the final chapter, the fact that she has a final chapter says “This is where I want to be at the last chapter of this book.”

Eric: Yeah.

Kevin; So, mapping the books out based on that…

Andrew: Should be easier.

Kevin: It should be easier, yeah. I mean, in my mind, anyway.

Andrew: Not to say [laughs] her job’s easy.

Kevin: Exactly, yeah.

[Eric laughs]

Kevin; Not to downplay the fact that it is a monumental task. But still it’s – you would think it would be easier knowing where you want to go.

Laura: Even if she has it planned out, that doesn’t mean that things haven’t changed. You know?

Kevin: That’s true, yeah.

Andrew: Yeah, things have got to change.

Laura: I mean, you may have something planned out, but it could be an extremely vigorous 20-page chapter, and that takes time.

Eric: Yeah.

Laura: So, I mean, we can’t assume that we’re going to see a book next year.

Jamie: No.

Laura: But, I think, especially considering that she has released the title, I don’t think it’s impossible at this point.

Micah: Yeah. I was going to ask, what do you think releasing a title tells us about where she is in writing the book? I mean, is it easier to decide on a title at the end or towards the end as opposed to the beginning?

Andrew: I see it this way. Half-Blood Prince, the title was revealed on June 29, 2004. That is roughly a year and about two weeks prior to the actual release of the book. So, if we were to follow this pattern, which I would think she would be trying to, she would be following the same pattern because, I mean, well, I don’t know. [laughs] I have no real explanation.

Eric: So, taking that into account. I wasn’t really…

Andrew: Taking that into account you would think the book would be released January, yeah, January 2008.

Eric: They should push that back to June.

Andrew: Yeah. The thing is I… It’s not like Jo to write – I don’t think she would release a book in January.

Kevin: Well…

Laura: No.

Andrew: For a January release.

Jamie: She wouldn’t, would she.

Eric: No, it would probably be a summer release.

Does Jo Choose The Release Date?

Kevin: And do you think that Jo has a choice of when it’s released?

Eric: Yeah, I think she has a choice.

Kevin: I mean she has a say in it, but you would…

Jamie: Oh yeah, definitely.

Kevin: Think that the publishers would be the ones to give the best recommendation.

Eric: Jo Rowling is untouchable. Okay. If she wants a book done…

Jamie: They can’t say, “Publish it February this year.”

[Micah laughs]

Jamie: Then she says, “Well, I haven’t written it yet.” “Tough.”

[Andrew laughs]

Jamie: “You’ve had a week and a half. Do it.”

Kevin: What I’m saying is after she’s done with it.

Eric: Yeah.

Kevin: After she is done with it the publishers say, “I think it would be best to release it around this date.” And the likelihood of her going against her publishers and saying that is…

Eric: Well, no. But, what are they going to say? They’re – and I understand what you’re saying, Kevin. The publishers are going to meet with her, and…

Kevin: They are going to say the date that is going to be most optimal for sales.

Eric: No, not the date. Do you really think they know to the specific date what book date is going to get the best book sales?

Kevin: No, I’m talking about…

Laura: No, he’s talking about the time of year.

Kevin: When she finishes the book. The time of the year that…

Eric: Well, yeah. But they’re going to say, Scholastic is going to say their biggest time and the ideal time to release this will be summer. Now, as far as getting more specific about that…

Kevin: Right, and that is what I’m saying.

Eric: Well, yeah. But as far as getting more specific about that…

[Kevin laughs]

Eric: I think Jo would actually have some – you know, they’re not going to say, “We have to do either the weekend of the 14th or the 21st of June.” If she wants to do a July release, I’m sure they’ll be a little lenient because summer is their biggest time.

Jamie: Yeah, they will.

Kevin: Of course. But what I’m saying is that I don’t see it being released during January, because it doesn’t seem like the normal time for such a large book to be released.

Micah: But, I don’t think it would affect the sales. I think it would still sell a tremendous amount.

Eric: No, of course not.

Jamie: Oh no.

Kevin: Yeah.

Jamie: But you’ve got to – I mean, also I think we have to take this into account. It’s not only a book release, but a sort of end of era release. Because people aren’t going to be queuing up in book stores and then reading the book and then waiting and going online. This is going to be the parties to end all parties.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Right.

Jamie: The queues to end all queues.

Kevin: Yeah, and I suspect that they’re going to be releasing some – they’ve been releasing special editions, but I have an itching suspicion they’re going to go further than that this time.

Laura: Oh, yeah.

Kevin: Like, you know…

Laura: What do you think is going to happen… [laughs]

Kevin: Rare edition, or something like that.

Laura: You know all these…

Jamie: Or, the adolescent edition?

Laura: You know all these conventions they have going on next summer? Like, Prophecy and [laughs] all this other stuff?

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: It’s going to be so blown out of the water [laughs] if the book comes out.

Andrew: Oh, yeah, there’s going to be…

Laura: Oh, man.

Andrew: There’s going to be groups on it and stuff. Not that we’re complaining…

Jamie: We should do a convention.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, let’s do our – the MuggleNet convention.

Eric: Yes, that would be so organized.

Andrew: Featuring all of us.

Eric: Oh, my gosh. I…

Andrew: [laughs] But anyway…

Jamie: It’s true, though. It’s true.

Andrew: It’s interesting, because we have heard a lot from Jo this past week. And by a lot, I mean one diary update, but for her, that’s a lot. [laughs]

Kevin: Yeah, more than usual.

Andrew: A sentence would be a lot in most cases.

Eric: And she’s busy. And she’s busy, you know?

Determining Release Dates

Andrew: Yes, yes. Any dream experts here on the panel today?

Micah: Well, I have a release date before we get to the dreams.

Kevin: Oh, okay.

Eric: And even before that…

Andrew: Yeah, while we’re still on this.

Eric: Well, what Andrew was saying about, you know, she released the title, so is it following the same pattern as before on when we can expect the book? Maybe, but what I wanted to say was, you know, if you recall, she did, you know, Sorcerer’s/Philosopher’s Stone, it came out in ’96/’97, Chamber of Secrets one year later, Prisoner of Azkaban one year later, Goblet of Fire one year later, but she felt it was such a rush, you know, she was very displeased with having to cram 734 pages into a year, so, she took her time and the movies came out, and she, you know, it was three years to write Book Five, which was…

Laura: Yeah, but…

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric: Which was up to date, the longest. Now…

Andrew: Then another two.

Laura: Eric, you have to remember, though, that she had been planning those books for years before they were published, so it’s very likely…

Jamie: Precisely, yes.

Laura: …that large parts of the first four books were already written by the time they started taking off.

Andrew: And not to state the obvious, but they were shorter. [laughs]

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: And there seems to be a cutoff, as well.

Eric: But what I’m saying, too, is that we can’t just say, “Okay, so, you know, Book Six, you know, we had the title at this point, so we can expect Book Seven at the same time.” Book Seven is hopefully going to be bigger, and maybe, you know, she gave us this title because it was kind of a maybe dead air in the HP fandom. Maybe she gave us this title because she really likes how Book Seven is turning out, but she still has a little way to go on it. I mean, you know, we talked all about, and we all agreed, that we wanted her to take her time on this. I don’t think it’s going to be, I don’t think it’s comparable to the time it took between Book Six to get out and Book Seven.

Jamie: There were like – the differences were there. I mean, I always saw Book Four as a cutoff between, you know, you could almost see the series in two parts: Books One to Four…

Eric: Well…

Jamie: …and then Five to Seven.

Eric: Yes, but that’s literally, as well.

Jamie: But… But… No, no, no.

Eric: I mean, the release date, as far as she’s taking her time with these last ones.

Jamie: No, no, of course not, but you also have to remember that she wasn’t as experienced a writer back then.

Eric: That’s true.

Jamie: And now she’s a lot more used to it, you know? And you can definitely say that, because you know, it’s like, she’s used to more deadlines.

Andrew: Right.

Jamie: She’s used to getting people what they want and stuff like that.

Andrew: Yeah, and just think about it. I mean, after she had Book One out, it started – it got popular pretty quick. Not to the level it is now, but she must’ve been…

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: …really excited about how the books were going, so of course she wanted to work on – she probably wanted to work on them more, and maybe try to get them out faster because of how popular they were.

Eric: I don’t know about that, though. Like, because you know, Book Five, she had a lot to do, and you know, the first two movies came out.

Andrew: Well, but then she learned that she would have to wait. I mean, she would have to take her time with it.

Eric: Yeah, because…

Andrew: What I’m saying is, she might have just gotten caught up in all the excitement, that’s why a book came out, you know, one after the other, those first three or four.

Eric: Oh, yeah.

Jamie: Yeah, exactly.

Eric: They were significantly shorter books to write.

Andrew: And that, too, of course.

[Andrew laughs]

Jamie: Yeah.

Micah’s Release Date

Micah: So…

Andrew: So… [laughs]

Laura: So, Micah…

Andrew: So, Micah, [laughs] you have a prediction, and you know what? I think all the listeners should take this very seriously, because…

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: I agree.

Andrew: …with the trend Micah’s going, I would not be surprised if it comes true. Micah, please.

Eric: Just guess.

Micah: What do you guys think about a release date of October 31st, 2007?

Andrew: I like it. Oct – November 1st, 2007, we’ll be playing that clip of what you just said on the show and bragging about it.

Jamie: We will, we will.

Micah: Well, because, not only – you know, okay, it’s symbolic, but it brings the whole series full circle. It was the night that Harry’s parents died, it’s the night that the whole series started.

Jamie: That’s – yeah.

Micah: It would be a fitting way to end the whole series as well.

Laura: Yeah, I think it’s very fitting, but I went and looked at my calendar, and Halloween is on a Wednesday. [laughs]

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: [laughs] Wah, wah, wah!

Micah: Well,

Eric: I mean, that doesn’t stop them doing like…

Micah: Yeah, I mean…

Eric: You know, Lord of the Rings comes out on Wednesday, I mean, or it did.

Laura: Yeah, but that’s a little different. You can’t have midnight release parties…

Andrew: That’s a movie release.

Laura: …on a Wednesday night.

Kevin: Yeah.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: It’s true, it’s true.

Andrew: Ohhh, we got school tomorrow!

Eric: Well, they should just.

Jamie: But, but she has so much influence now, that she can just get the calendars fixed.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Kevin: I know. Schools will be cancelled across the…

Jamie: It will fall on a Saturday if she wants it to.

What’s Wrong With Wednesday?

Andrew: Let’s talk bout that for a minute. If a book came out on a Wednesday, do you think so many people would…

Laura: Skip school?

Kevin: Yeah.

Jamie: Skip school, yeah.

Laura: I would.

Andrew: …not go to school the next day, like it would be a big, hot item on the news, and like…

Eric: Yeah, and…

Jamie: I would not be surprised at all.

Eric: You know, that’s why I think it’s a good idea to release it in the summer, because…

Kevin: Yeah.

Eric: …this book will probably take a long time to read, and if they… Especially if…

Kevin: Harry Potter dead.

Eric: …it’s in the middle of the week. JKR will get blamed for like, so much truancy and absences and stuff, like what do you even think, with a title like Deathly Hallows? What is Laura Mallory going to say about this?

Laura: Yeah, if her kids skip school that day.

Micah: Who cares?

Laura: It’ll be J.K. Rowling’s fault. [laughs]

Jamie: Don’t know, don’t care, yeah.

Harry Potter Transcends All Ages

Eric: No, well, they don’t care, but are all the book witchcraft purists – Deathly Hallows, “death” is in the title, and they’re selling this to ten-year olds. You know? Who is at fault for that? I mean, this is like, a dark book, you know? They’re going to try to release it, I think, summer’s obviously the ideal.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: I think that’s good, though. The title, with having the word death in it, because it’ll make it – people who see Harry Potter as a children’s book will think, “Oh, death. Oh, Jesus.”

Jamie: Yeah. Yeah. It’s a challenge to people, as well.

Andrew: Mhm.

Jamie: You know? If you like it, you read it, it’s got nothing… She’s saying that, you know, “It’s my book, I’ll call it what I want, and if you don’t want to read it because it’s got the word ‘death’ in it, then whatever.” Everyone is still going to read it

Andrew: Right.

Jamie: I would still want to read it.

Andrew: Well, you know, some people are like… There’s people in the United States, I’m sure, in the UK, that people are like, “Oh, Harry Potter, that’s lame,” and stuff, but they haven’t read it, and I’m not saying everyone would enjoy it, because some people it’s just not their thing.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: However, it really – I, you know, I’m just preaching to the choir here, but it’s really [laughs] not a children’s book.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: But anyway, I don’t really want to go into that.

Laura: No, it’s a book that – it transcends all ages, essentially, I mean.

Eric: It really does.

Laura: It’s a children’s book because…

Jamie: Where’d you read that one, Laura?

[Kevin laughs]

Laura: Thank you, Jamie.

[Andrew, Laura, and Eric laugh]

Jamie: Sorry.

Laura: No, because it is a children’s book because children can read it. It’s also an adult book because adults can read it.

Andrew: Mhm.

Eric: And there’s so many parallels and stuff. I mean, I was trying to think the other day about fantasy and the thing about fantasy novels, fantasy fiction, Lord of the Rings and Narnia especially and Harry Potter.

[Kevin laughs]

Eric: They’re not really fantasy in ways. I mean, yes the main means of magic and things like that are fantasy, but really there’s so many political annotations, connotations, all sorts of things like that. It really tells an allegory of real life, of non-fiction, and each author is kind of-with Jo’s you don’t ramp onto this whole death and life level. Each author in these fantasy series is really just telling a kind of a skewed version of life; you know, what they believe life to be like.

Jamie: But that’s what literature is.

Eric: That’s true.

Jamie: It’s giving your own opinions on, you know, the world as it is and she’s doing it. She’s clearly, you know…

Eric: Even in fiction, you know?

Jamie: Oh, especially fiction!

Eric: Especially fiction. Exactly.

Jamie: Because you can present it in a way that doesn’t show that you actually believe it. Like if your main character is, I don’t know, racist, you can say, “Well, I’m not racist.”

Eric: Yeah.

Jamie: Because, you know, it’s my character. You know, you can do whatever you want with it.

Eric: Exactly, but I was just saying when I was very upset about death and I was like, “Does everybody have to die?”

Laura: Yes.

Eric: In life, is that how she truly feels, and is that fantasy? Fantasy I’m trying to think, but even in the old child, nursery rhymes and fairy tales are all about death. So, one could argue that this isn’t really feeding children death more than they are, but what I was saying is basically that, the books, being fantasy you kind of expect-is there any happy fantasy novel? Basically, I mean Alice in Wonderland she goes through a lot of stuff. Is there any fantasy novel that is actually fantasy, where you can get lost in a book like Reading Rainbow used to tell me?

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Yes.

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric: But how light is that? Seriously, like all these stories seem to be, like, really dark telling stories about life through the fantasy persona. It’s just I haven’t seen really like a fantasy novel that hasn’t done that. Like there’s no good, happy fantasy story. But that’s just…Deathly Hallows, go figure.

Andrew: Yes, sorry.

Jamie: Nice summary.

Andrew – The Psychiatrist

Andrew: Yes. Now, let me tell you what guys. I like getting into people’s minds. I aspire to be a psychiatrist when I grow older.

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: Or a psy… Oh.

Andrew: Or a psychic. Is that what you were going to say?

Jamie: No. I was going to say or a psychologist.

Andrew: Or a psychiatrist, or psychologist whatever.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Andrew: The point is…

Jamie: Or, of course, a brain eating bug or something, Andrew, that you’d be in their mind. [laughs] That’s funny.

Andrew: Did anyone get that?

Laura: What did you say? [laughs]

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Was that 45,000 people just going silent for a few seconds?

[Andrew, Eric, and Laura laugh]

Jamie: Yeah, but you said you aspire to be in a… Okay don’t put that in there.

Andrew Analyzes Jo’s Dream

Andrew: Oh no, it’s got to go in now. So anyway, this got me. J.K. Rowling on her site earlier this week said that she had a dream being in Harry’s world, but it’s not that that got me. It’s that this was her first dream about being in Harry’s world. Now, have any of you ever had a dream about being in the Harry Potter world?

Laura: Yeah, I have. I don’t remember any specifics.

Andrew: Oh, okay.

Laura: But I know I have.

Andrew: Yeah. You don’t want to tell us because it’s probably very embarrassing.

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: Yeah, probably.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Andrew: I went into the school with my cloak, and I had my book and cauldron with me.

Kevin: Oh god.

Eric: [laughs] Oh, god.

Andrew: And I had my pet. Yeah. I’m sure I have once or twice. Now what gets me about this is that Jo says this is her first time having a dream about being in Harry’s world.

Jamie: Well, she writes enough of it I guess. You know?

Laura: Yeah. [laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, but isn’t… Now, I’m not a dream expert. That’s why I was asking earlier, is anyone up on this dream thing?

Eric: Yeah. I kind of…

Andrew: What effects your dreams? What influences them? I want to hear from Kevin about this, because I’m sure…

Kevin: I’ve heard that the experiences of your day have an effect on what your subconscious mind is thinking when you’re going to sleep.

Andrew: Right. Right.

Kevin: So, when you think about Harry Potter all day it’s more likely that you’re going to have a dream related to it because your mind has been, you know, thinking on it all day.

Andrew: Right. Now, what does this tell us about how Jo is writing Book Seven right now?

Eric: I think it means she’s going into it.

Andrew: Yeah.

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric: She’s getting so far into it that… Whereas she probably… If this is her first dream she has had a very distinctive persona in her mind where conscious mind and subconscious mind. Harry Potter is so much on her conscious mind that she thinks about realistically where none of us can really do that, because we only read it. We didn’t create it. And now, she’s going so far into things that I just think if she’s having dreams about the stuff that she’s writing that she lives in her conscious mind too. I mean, it’s got to be crazy. You know? Dreams have been said to be a playground for your subconscious. All of the things you don’t think about during the day, the things you notice. All of the things you don’t think about are going into your dreams, having fun, all the different people, all the different characters. You know? All that stuff. Now for JKR to have dreams, it’s got to mean something like crazy.

Andrew: I think it just means that it’s getting to her.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: And I don’t want to sound like we’re judging her or anything, but I think it’s really starting, like the pressure. I’m sure the pressure has been there, but the pressure is really starting to build up to the point where, I kind of feel it’s out of my place to say this…

Kevin: I…

Andrew: …but it’s just getting to her to the point where it’s like frustrating. It’s the final book. There’s so much pressure on it.

Eric: I don’t think that at all.

Laura: I don’t think so.

Eric: I don’t think she’s being pressured to do anything. I mean…

Kevin: I think she’s pressuring herself, if anything.

Eric: Yeah, pressuring herself to make it the best. She has to please a lot of people. I mean, she doesn’t have to, but ideally.

Laura: I think this kind of relates directly to the possibility of the seventh book coming out next summer, because I’m sure as release time comes closer, she’s going to be feeling a lot more stressed and if she’s never had a dream about Harry Potter in the what?

Eric: Twelve, 13.

Laura: Twelve, 13 years that she’s been writing it.

Eric: Actually 15 or 16.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: Right, and then it just happens overnight?

Laura: And then it just happens? Yeah. It means that the seventh book is very close to coming out. That’s what it means to me.

Jamie: I’ve been writing essays for ten years…

Kevin: Yeah, really.

Jamie: …and I’ve never dreamt of myself sitting there on my computer.

Laura: Yeah, but it’s a little different.

Andrew: Okay, come on. Essays…

Laura: Essays are required.

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: Harry Potter is a huge part of her life.

Andrew: A school essay. What are you dreaming about? All Quiet on the Western Front you’re dreaming about Paul? [laughs]

Jamie: Yeah, I… Yeah, I dreamt… Yeah, Andrew, I had… Yeah. [laughs]

Andrew: Being in Paul’s position? [laughs]

Jamie: Yeah. I was lying in this trench.

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]

Jamie: And then my mom called me for breakfast. And I…

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: And you were having a smoke with Kat? [laughs]

Jamie: Yeah. Yeah. [laughs]

[Andrew laughs]

Jamie: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I keep imagining myself in all these war films like I’m in Saving Private Ryan.

Andrew: But seriously Jamie, don’t you think this means it’s really…

Jamie: No, you see…

Andrew: That she’s completely enthralled in it. When you’re dreaming about it for the first time, but it’s your life!

Jamie: No, I… No, but I think it’s the opposite. If I spend all day answering e-mails, I will never dream about that.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: But, you can’t dream about e-mails though, I’m talking about a real-life situations!

Jamie: No, but, Andrew… But, Andrew…

Laura: Yeah, but see, answering emails is something that you have to do, Jamie. Writing this book is something she chooses to do.

Jamie: Well, she has to…but, but, but, if you do enough of something you won’t dream about it because it’s off your mind. You can handle it during your waking hours.

Eric: Yeah. That’s exactly what I said.

Jamie: You dream about stuff you can’t handle during your waking hours, so it has to go into your subconscious. It’s like…

Laura: Well, I know that’s true because it’s been said that the last thing that you think about before you fall asleep tends to be involved in your dreams.

Eric: Yeah, but it’s…

Jamie’s Dream and More Dream Analysis

Jamie: That’s not true because I had a dream that I was walking down the street and I bumped into this group of guys and they started trying to sort of punch me and hit me. So…

Eric: Clearly, that’s not something that you go to bed…

Jamie: and they said that they’d go away and stop it if I bought them this fried egg from a food stand next to them.

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: But Laura, I did not think about that before I went to sleep, I assure you.

Laura: Yeah, but you said that if you do something and if you won’t dream about it and to be perfectly honest, I spend tons of time talking to you guys and you’ve been in my dreams before.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: It’s like, I’ve had dreams where I’m like, where we’ll all be together and talking and stuff and I talk to you guys every day. [laughs]

Jamie: But, it doesn’t mean that we’re actually about your dreams, it’s like, it could all be – it could mean something else, like Andrew being in any good dream could just be a sort of…

Andrew: It means you like me!

Laura: Uh, yeah, that’s right. [laughs]

Jamie: Concerned about… Yeah, yeah. No, no. Like you’re a…you’re like thinking about something male, it’s just a representation of stuff.

Eric: It fits though.

Andrew: Your dreams can morph from one thing into another, I mean, dreams are…

Jamie: Of course they can. But…

Eric: And that’s the other thing, it’s also been said that people have thousands of dreams every night and we only remember a few of them.

Jamie: No, that’s true, Eric, that’s absolutely true, you just don’t remember them all.

Eric: Your mind is on constant – your mind is constantly entertaining itself.

Laura: [laughs] So, I dream about you guys thousands of times a night?

Eric: Well, it doesn’t mean, necessarily about us…you could dream about…

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: I dream about you, Laura. All of my waking hours.

Andrew: I have nightmares about Laura.

Laura: Oh, thanks.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: The audience will laugh at that.

Laura: Yeah, I’m sure they will.

Andrew: I almost heard it, it was so funny. Anyway, no I’m kidding. [laughs]

The Rest of Jo’s Dream

Micah: But, Andrew…

Andrew: Yes, Micah?

Micah: What about the rest of what she said and what she specifically dreamt about?

Andrew: What else did she say? What else did she say?

Micah: She said that, in her dream, she was both Harry and the narrator simultaneously and she was searching for a Horcrux in a giant crowded hall. But, this is interesting because, could she have been writing about this in particular? Especially, when she says that she “knew perfectly well that the Horcrux was jammed in a hidden nook in the fireplace while, as Harry, I was searching for it in all kinds of other places.” That’s kind of odd. Does that mean that that’s where one is in the book and she was writing about it earlier that day? I mean…

Laura: Eh, I don’t think so. What I think it is – have you ever heard about authors discussing how their characters will develop their own minds and want to do certain things and they can’t really stop their characters from doing that? Like, Jo, at one point, mentioned during Book Four Hermione actually wanted to go off and do the S.P.E.W. thing and she just let her do it. And I think this could be something to do with, maybe, having a hard time getting something the way she wants it in the books. So, on the one hand she’s trying to be Harry and make him do what she wants him to do and at the same time she’s trying to be the narrator.


Transcript 068

MuggleCast 68 Transcript

Show Intro

[Audio]: This podcast is brought to you by Buena Vista Home Entertainment’s release of Step Up. Incredible dancing and awesome music fuel this exhilarating and inspiring movie, on DVD December 19th. Domain names from are up to 70% less than the competition. Plus, each domain includes free hosting with a website builder, a free blog, complete e-mail, and much more. Plus, as a listener of MuggleCast, enter code “Muggle,” that’s M-U-G-G-L-E, when you check out, and save an additional 10% on any order. Some restrictions apply, see site for details. Get your piece of the internet at

[Intro music plays]

Andrew: Because Laura Mallory lost her appeal, thank you, Ryan, 14, of Basking Ridge, New Jersey, this is MuggleCast Episode 68 for December 17th, 2006.

[Music continues to play]

Andrew: Everyone, I am in a festive mood this week.

Micah: So am I, Andrew.

Laura: Yeah, absolutely.

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: I’m right there with you.

Andrew: I am – I’m dressed up in my finest holiday clothing, I am drinking eggnog with pickles.

Micah: You have a Santa hat on?

Andrew: Yes, I do. And I have Christmas music on in the background, can you hear it?

Laura: Oh, yeah.

Micah: Yep.

Andrew: The Hogwarts theme. It’s very Christmassy, isn’t it?

Laura: Yup. [laughs]

Andrew: We’re here with Dylan this week. Dylan, thanks for joining us.

Dylan: My pleasure, Andrew.

Andrew: You haven’t been on in a while.

Dylan: Yep, but maybe next time, I can be on when I don’t have a sore throat. [laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, I heard you had a craaazy night last night. [goofy laugh]

Dylan: It was a festive party.

Andrew: Yeah.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Well, that’s good. Well, we’ll talk about that a little later on. We have a good show for everyone this week. In case you were wondering, Jamie and Ben are god knows where, and Eric’s… [laughs] Eric’s out, too, but they should all be back next week along with Kevin.

Micah: Don’t forget about Kevin.

Andrew: No, I didn’t forget. [laughs] Along with Kevin. So, I’m Andrew Sims.

Laura: I’m Laura Thompson.

Micah: I’m Micah Tannenbaum.

Dylan: And I’m Dylan Spartz.

[Music continues to play]


Micah: Laura, Laura, Laura, Laura, Laura.

Laura: What?

Micah: No, not you. Laura Mallory! Her case for removing the Harry Potter books from Georgia’s libraries was dealt another blow on Thursday, as the Georgia Board of Education made a unanimous decision to keep the books.

The Gwinnett County school board also voted previously for the books to remain, but Mallory appealed the decision to the state school board. Mallory, who has been working for over a year to ban the books, has shown no signs of giving up, as there is talk of yet another appeal. We have footage covering the story from Fox 5 in Atlanta including an interview with Mallory herself, who claims the HP series is “mainstreaming witchcraft to our children and presenting it in a child-friendly format that’s dangerous and deceptive.”

Thank you, Professor Umbridge.

A new photo depicting Dan Radcliffe and Order of the Phoenix director David Yates was officially released by Warner Brothers this week. It was originally printed in the December 18th issue of Newsweek with an accompanying article. Additionally, French magazine Cinelive has a new photo with Dan with his wand at the ready on their cover and the January/February 2007 edition of Premiere magazine has a preview of the upcoming fifth film.

Order of the Phoenix merchandise isn’t expected to hit shops until next year, but the first Phoenix t-shirt is now available for pre-sale. It features Voldemort from the promotional poster released earlier this year and costs just $15. However, the t-shirt is in limited stock, only available online and must be purchased by this Monday, December 18th.

Cards Incorporated, the company that recently received the European license for Harry Potter merchandise, has released some new details pertaining to their Order of the Phoenix line. The firm understands the Potter audience is maturing, and will therefore be aiming its Order of the Phoenix products at both young and old customers. Some major retailers have already been given previews of the upcoming line of toys, and have been hugely impressed by both their range and quality. The first wave of this exciting new Harry Potter merchandise will hit stores this June, in conjunction with the July release of Order of the Phoenix.

Lycos has released their list of the top 50 search terms for 2006. Despite having no new book or movie this year, Harry Potter remained on the list at number 40, which is a drop from its rank of 27 in 2005.

At the Eragon premiere in London, Katie Leung, Bonnie Wright, and the Phelps twins were present at the film’s first showing, and they attended the after-party. You can see a few photos over at

Finally, Jo put up some Christmas decorations on her site the day after I asked her to do something on last week’s edition of MuggleCast. Perhaps I’ll have to ask for something big for Christmas.

That’s all the news for this December 17th, 2006 edition of MuggleCast. Back to the show.

Andrew: All right, thank you Micah.

Micah: Oh, you’re welcome.


Andrew: Well, we have a few announcements this week, and then we will move on with our regular show. MuggleCast t-shirts are going out of sale very soon. There’s only two or three weeks left. We can’t guarantee them for Christmas, however, if you purchase a MuggleCast t-shirt I will guarantee – personally guarantee – that you will, um, be happy for the rest of you life.

Dylan: Eternal happiness! [laughs] That’s priceless!

Laura: What happens if they’re not? What’s the…

Andrew: Ummm.

Laura: What’s the consequence for you if that doesn’t happen?

Andrew: I don’t know, because we don’t do exchanges.

Laura: Oh, I see

Andrew: But seriously, we do have to stop selling MuggleCast t-shirts. Everyone is well aware, so purchase yours today, and you also help support the show.

Micah: The squares.

Andrew: Huh?

Micah: The squares.

Laura: Oh yeah, no more squares tees. They’re gone.

Andrew: Oh right. Thank you, thank you. Yes, we cannot sell the – well, it’s not that we can’t – we have sold out of squares t-shirts. We’ve been sold out for awhile. They’re probably our most popular t-shirt, but we can’t get them reprinted because we have to stop in a couple of weeks, however there’s still three other designs left. MuggleCast at Lumos, the new MuggleCast Crest t-shirt, and the Micbolt, which we’ve had for awhile. So, purchase any of those, or purchase two, or purchase three, or purchase as many as you want, because they’re all fantastic.

And also, don’t forget to vote for us on Podcast Alley. Vote once a month and help us beat Keith and the Girl. Let me check right now. We’re being beat by Keith and the Girl right now, again. I still don’t understand what is so great about this Keith and the Girl podcast. It’s just these two people. They just sit there and talk about anything, and it makes me sad that their fans are more loyal than us – than ours.

Laura: Oh no, don’t say that. That’s not true.

Dylan: I think the MuggleCast fans are very loyal.

Laura: Yeah, I think it’s just because they…

Andrew: [Fake crying] Well, then why aren’t we number one on Podcast Alley?

Laura: Because they have a Keith; we only have a Kevin.

Laura Mallory Loses Court Case

Andrew: Oh. [laughs] Good point, Laura. All right, so as a lot of people might have heard over the past week, Laura Mallory has once again lost her court case.

Laura: Darn.

Andrew: Laura, you want to give us a quick update on this? We’ll cut over to a news article.

Laura: Yeah, well I mean basically she went up – she appealed to the state and she lost again, and I believe one of her excuses now was that the reason she lost was because she didn’t have a lawyer, and I really don’t see how that even applies at all, because it’s not a case where you even need a lawyer, it’s just a matter of you can’t sit there and dictate what other people can and can’t have access to.

Andrew: Right. We actually have a news clip now that we wanted to play. It’s – we wanted to talk about it because it’s kind of funny. A couple of things she has to say. This was an interview with Laura Mallory that was held on…

Laura: Fox 5 News.

Andrew: On a local Fox News station in Atlanta. Laura, is this a good station down there?

Laura: No.

Andrew: No?

[Andrew, Micah and Laura laugh]

Andrew: Well we have a news report from it. Let’s listen to this.

Reporter: After a year and a half of controversy over Harry Potter and his place in the library, the state school board, today voted to allow the book to remain on the shelves of Gwinnett County.

School Board: Thank you. It is unanimous for those present.”

Reporter: The simple a reaction to the ruling by the board?”

Andrew: This is Laura talking.

Laura Mallory: “Not surprised. Expected.”

Andrew: Nor surprised. Expected. She’s been at this for how long, and that’s all she has to say about it? A few words?

Micah: Over a year.

Laura: Well, I believe…

Andrew: Not surprised.

Laura: Well, I believe she continued to add at one point, that if all she was able to do was kind of help out any families who have had children convert to witchcraft, then that’s fine with her, but…

Dylan: Please, think of the children.

Laura: Yeah, really. It’s like, if we want to go on banning things that promote certain things to children, why don’t we just go down the list here? I mean, I personally think we should ban Winnie the Pooh, because Pooh Bear doesn’t wear pants.

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Laura: We wouldn’t want our children to think they can’t wear pants.

Andrew: It just amazes me that this is her response on it. After all this, and that’s what she has to say.

Dylan: It is quite shocking.

Andrew: Well, let’s keep listening.

Reporter: “The fight began here in JC Magill Elementary School in Loganville, where a mother of four, Laura Mallory, believed the Harry Potter series was inappropriate for…”

Andrew: You know, she looks like your normal mother. There’s nothing – you know, she looks like a nice lady. I don’t…

Laura: Oh, I don’t doubt for a moment that she’s, you know…

Andrew: She seems like a nice person.

Laura: Yeah. She seems very polite, but I…

Andrew: Yeah, all right, keep going.

Dylan: It’s just like why don’t you just do something more useful, and maybe…

Laura: Exactly! That’s what I don’t get about her.

Dylan: Instead of banning, instead of trying to ban Harry Potter, which is – anyone who’s read the stories knows that they’re not teaching any kids witchcraft. I don’t know of any kids converting to witchcraft because they read Harry Potter.

Andrew: Right.

Dylan: It’s not the devil’s words. It’s a wonderful story.

Andrew: Yeah.

Dylan: And everybody loves it.

Laura: Well, you know what gets me about her? Is there are a number of charitable organizations that would bend over backwards to have someone so determined on their side.

Andrew: Right.

Laura: So, why is she wasting her time trying to get a book banned from a library?

Andrew: [sighs] Well.

Laura: There are people dying in the world. I’m sorry that’s all I have to say.

Andrew: Maybe the rest of the article has the answer.

Reporter: “…kids, in that she said it promoted witchcraft.

Laura Mallory: “The Harry Potter books are mainstreaming witchcraft to our children. They’re presenting it in a child-friendly format that’s dangerous and deceptive.”

Andrew: Dangerous and deceptive. It can hurt you guys.

Laura: Child-friendly format of witchcraft?

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: What? [laughs]

Andrew: That’s what she says, look out.

Reporter: “The issue was challenged at several levels, all the way up to the state board of education.”

School Board Attorney: “The reason it probably has had such…”

Andrew: You know it just – they have a shot of all the people on the board here, like 20 people have to sit there and have there time wasted with this. Especially a unanimous decision, doesn’t that just scream, “Hey we don’t want to be bothered to do this.” [laughs]

Laura: Yeah.

Dylan: I mean she kind of said it herself that it was expected so…

Andrew: Right. [laughs]

Dylan: Why are you going to pursue this anymore if you don’t think you’re going to win?

Andrew: [laughs] So why are you trying if you expected it. Okay yeah.

Dylan: Are you just trying to get like press time, or trying to raise more awareness for the cause? What cause? That won’t win.

Laura: No one wanted to deal with it this time, because I was actually looking in to going down there and speaking on behalf of the books and I read that they weren’t even allowing anyone from the public to come in and speak. It was just between herself and the Board of Education.

Andrew: They just wanted to get it over with.

Laura: Yeah. So, they just wanted to get it done.

Micah: Yeah. Well, it’s a First Amendment issue too and…

Andrew: Mhm.

Micah: …when you try and mess with people’s first amendment rights, it’s always a touchy subject.

Andrew: Yeah.

School Board Attorney: “…the scrutiny is because in America we get very, very nervous if there ever is any type of censorship of educational materials or First Amendment materials.”

Reporter: “Many Gwinnett educators claim the Potter series promoted reading.”

Micah: See, this guy is on the same page.

Reporter: “And were a hot commodity at the checkout lines.”

Andrew: Yeah.

Reporter: “Still the book wasn’t for everybody.”

Librarian: “And they were children here who would never read this book because it’s not the kind of book they would like simply because of the genre of the book.”

Reporter: “But kids do like it. Why do they like it?”

Librarian: “I think they just like fantasy.”

Andrew: That’s the librarian talking. I mean that’s what it comes down to.

Laura: Yeah, exactly.

Andrew: If you don’t want to read it, don’t read it. But you know, you have a freedom of choice, but don’t ban the books for nobody to read them, just because you don’t want – you don’t think they’re right.

Reporter: “Some parents saw the fight as much ado about nothing.”

Parent: “I think it’s an overreaction. You know I’m a very, I was telling him, I’m a very, very Christian person, but I think it’s more of a parental responsibility.

Reporter: “Will Laura Mallory appeal the decision to the superior court? She’s not sure yet but still proud that she fought the issue. In your mind worth the toil, the hassle, the abuse, the anything else you’ve taken?”

Laura Mallory: “Abuse, yeah.” [laughs]

Andrew: Abuse from us calling her. [laughs]

Laura: Well, no. I’m sure she got a number of…

Micah: Well, abuse she’s brought on herself.

Dylan: She brought it on herself.

Laura: …a number of people who have harassed her.

Andrew: No, it cuts to a picture of our album art so I think that’s what they were talking about.

Laura: [laughs] Well, you know what I find interesting about this whole thing is, I don’t know if it’s the same in Gwinnett County, but when I was in the Forsyth County public schools, parents were actually allowed to have input on what their kids could and could not check out. Like, if you tried to checkout a book that your parents had said you could not, the system wouldn’t let you.

Andrew: Mhm.

Laura: So why doesn’t she just say, “My kids can’t check out Harry Potter.”

Andrew: Yeah, right

Dylan: I think it’s dangerous whenever you suppress anything. Like, that’s why abortion such a touchy subject because some people think that it should still be allowed in some cases whether it at no point should be illegal, but then again there’s other people that say it’s morally bad. But Harry Potter is at a completely different level because it doesn’t really promote witchcraft in any way. I mean, it uses witchcraft in the books, but it doesn’t promote it, it doesn’t tell them, “Hey, go try these things, kids.”

Andrew: Right.

Laura: I think Harry Potter is just a very popular scapegoat, basically.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura Mallory: “I think it’s worth it only if people will listen to do their own research. If even one family or one child has been saved from the heartache that other families have gone through with their children actually getting into witchcraft, then it’s worth it.”

Andrew: A heartache? And what children have been getting into witchcraft? Is there any evidence of that? I mean, I’m not trying to rip her apart I just want to know, is there, is – does anyone know if there’s been evidence of witchcraft destroying children and causing heartache?

Laura: I have never heard of that.

Andrew: Anyone?

Micah: I don’t think so.

Dylan: I don’t know of anyone.

Micah: I don’t remember a story.

Dylan: Not one of my friends, at least.

Laura: Unless she thinks of little kids running around with fake plastic wands and yelling Expelliarmus is witchcraft, then no. [laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, that must be what she means because… [laughs]

Dylan: That ruins families, you know?

Andrew: Yeah, it really does.

Dylan: Eight year-olds waving wooden wands around, you know?

Andrew: Yeah.

Dylan: Terrible sight.

Andrew: So, that’s that. [sighs] Well, it’s interesting and, of course, she’s going to go appeal it again. Laura, do you know anything else about that?

Laura: I don’t think we’ve actually heard anything, have we?

Andrew: She’s planning on it, isn’t she?

Laura: I don’t think there’s been any confirmation of that.

Dylan: There have been talks of it, but we don’t know if it’s for sure.

Laura: Yeah, we don’t know if it’s for sure yet.

Listener Rebuttal: Blowing up Pluto

Andrew: Okay. We have an e-mail now from Catie, 19, of Minneapolis. She writes:

“Hi MuggleCast, rock and roll. Just a comment: You guys were talking in the last Episode 67 about Ginny, and whether she would be a major character or just a supporting role. Personally, I think she will play a major role in the defeat of Voldemort. There are plenty of reasons, but I think the most telling one, brought to my attention by Galadriel Waters, is that she blew up Pluto in the planet room at the end of Book Five. If you know anything about Roman or Greek mythology, Pluto is the Roman name for the Greek god of the underworld, [mispronounces] Hades…”

Laura: Hades.

Micah: Hades.

Andrew: “…Hades, (i.e. Satan). No way would JK Rowling include something so small if it wasn’t important. Anyways, take it into consideration. Have a party.”

Laura: What, you don’t think she foretold that Pluto was going to be exiled as a planet?

Andrew: I know.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Laura: No, I think that’s definitely important. I think Ginny will absolutely play a major role in the seventh book, there’s no question.

Andrew’s Wizard Rock Band

Andrew: Before we get to our main discussion this week, I have an update on my wizard rock band. It’s basically, you’ve heard of wizard rock, right?

Dylan: Of course, it’s sweeping the nation.

Andrew: I’m starting my own Wizard Rock band. I’m really excited about it. I think it’s going to be a big hit.

Laura: Oh.

Andrew: And I actually have a preview of my song now because, I decided that I wanted to get the hype up a little bit more and the only way to do that would be to give people a sneak peek. Now, Laura, I gave you a preview awhile back, but it’s changed a little bit.

Laura: Yes.

Andrew: The song.

Laura: Oh, okay.

Andrew: So, don’t act surprised if you don’t recognize it.

Laura: Okay. Well, I’ll definitely curb my enthusiasm.

Andrew: Are you guys ready?

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: Okay. Well, here we go.

[Music begins playing]

“We’ve got to save Ginny Weasley from the Basilisk
We’ve got to save the school from that unseen horror.”

Laura: Oh.

Andrew: What do you guys think? Laura, do you like that?

Laura: Yeah. It sounds like you had a bit of an influence, but yeah.

Andrew: No. What are you talking about?

Laura: I don’t know. It just sounded kind of familiar.

Andrew: No. No, I made that up myself.

Laura: Okay. I just can’t really place it.

Dylan: [coughs] Rip-off.

Andrew: That was the chorus of the song. The whole song, of course, is going to be released on Episode 70. So, hopefully that’s going to get the hype up a little bit because I’m really excited about it and I hope everyone else is too. So, e-mail me your feedback and what you thought of that. Thanks. [laughs]

Main Discussion: The Four Founders of Hogwarts

Andrew: Our main discussion this week now is the four founders of Hogwarts. We’ve talked about them in bits and pieces through out these past 67 shows, but now we’re going to talk about them in a little more detail. Right, Laura?

Laura: Yeah, absolutely. After a very long night of Micah and I being extremely grumpy and trying to come up with something, we actually came up with a discussion on the four founders.

Why Were Slytherin and Gryffindor Friends?

Laura: I think just to kind of jump right into it, my first question would be: why would someone like Gryffindor be friends with someone like Slytherin, who clearly valued pure bloods above others? Because we know that in the sorting song in Order of the Phoenix, it stated that Gryffindor and Slytherin were very close friends, as were Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw. So why would someone like Gryffindor want to put up with someone like Slytherin, who had such skewed values?

Andrew: Maybe you could relate it to in the beginning of Sorcerer’s Stone, when Draco offered Harry his friendship, and you can almost think what would have happened if Draco hadn’t made fun of Ron and wasn’t taunting Ron? What would happen if they became friends? I mean, because the only thing…

Laura: I don’t think that would have happened though because Harry kind of, from his point of view in that chapter, I always got the impression he thought he was kind of snotty and that he didn’t really want that much to do with him, especially when he asked, like, his surname and stuff. I kind of got the impression that Harry felt like, why does that matter, you know? So…

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: Well, I think if you’re presuming it on the basis that you were talking about, I think people of different views, whether it’s politics or other things, can be friends. Just because they have different viewpoints doesn’t mean that they can’t get along with each other.

Laura: Well, they can, I think, to an extent, but when it gets to a point where you’re actually actively alienating people because of their heritage, their bloodlines. I don’t know many people that can be friends with someone who does that. So, was Slytherin…

Micah: Well, maybe they were friends up to that point.

Did Slytherin Always Discriminate?

Laura: Yeah, that was kind of going to be my next point. Was Slytherin always – did he always discriminate against Muggle-borns and purebloods? Or half-bloods, excuse me. Or if he didn’t, what would’ve happened to make him be that way?

Andrew: Well, this sort of goes back to our discussion that we had on evil. Like, had Salazar always had a hate for purebloods? And I don’t – it might be like – I don’t even know if we should be bringing this example up on the show, but it’s almost like someone, someone being racist. In the sense that…

Laura: Well, yeah, it is in a sense.

Andrew: … you’re not…are you… You’re not born with that. You gather that over time, whether there’s and influence…

Laura: Mmm.

Andrew: …from your family and friends or…

Laura: Right.

Andrew: …what not.

Laura: Well, see, we know that Slytherin was at least prejudiced towards those who didn’t come from pureblood families from the point when the school started, because in the sorting song, it said that Slytherin stated that he would accept those whose blood was purest. So, we know that from at least that point on, he held a prejudice towards people who were not pureblooded.

Micah: But can you also see that as a traditionalist view, as opposed to being a racist view?

Laura: Well, yeah. That – I mean, you always kind of have to consider people as products of their time. But then again, you look at someone like Helga Hufflepuff, who said, “I’ll take the lot and treat them all the same.”

Andrew: Mhm. Well, that’s sort of, in a way, a mindset, too, because you’re a caring person who wants to welcome everyone or anyone.

Slytherin’s Chamber of Secrets

Laura: Mhm. Hmmm. Well, do you think Slytherin had any sort of intention going into the school? Because we know he build the Chamber of Secrets. Do you think that his first thought, whenever the four proposed the idea of starting a school, was to kind of use this as a platform to gain some sort of power and a way to kind of alienate others of – you know, who weren’t pureblooded or in a sense to essentially build the Chamber of Secrets? That way he could rid the school of Muggle-borns. Maybe that was his first intention?

Andrew: Well, yeah, maybe when Salazar was going into this idea of creating Hogwarts, maybe he – originally he did not want to? Well, I mean, originally he was going in and acting like he would treat everyone fairly, but then his ultimate goal was going to be to try to kick everyone out who wasn’t a pureblood. So, it…

Laura: Do you think that was…

Andrew: So, it was just a pureblood school.

Dylan: [clears his throat] I don’t think he went in with that goal, but I think that maybe he – his views have changed. His views changed. After a while he saw the direction the school was going in and it was allowing Mudbloods into the school and he didn’t like it, so he changed his views.

Andrew: Well, why wouldn’t you like that? I mean, what do you not like about Mudbloods, other than that they weren’t born with wizarding parents? I just don’t see…

Laura: Well, that’s – that’s like asking a…

Andrew: You know?

Dylan: I guess you’ll have to ask Salazar Slytherin. I guess…

Laura: Yeah, that’s like asking a racist person, what do you not like about a person of a specific race? Aside from the fact that…

Andrew: And what would that person say? You’re just…

Laura: Yeah, because…

Andrew: You’re just trying to think…

Laura: Yeah, it’s just a prejudice that you’re kind of conditioned into having.

Andrew: Mhm.

Laura: And it’s – it must be terribly, terribly hard to overcome something like that.

Andrew: Yeah.

Dylan: Well, it’s probably put into him since birth, you know? His father did the same thing and he just didn’t think those people were fit to be in his school.

Andrew: All right.

Was This a Defining Time in the Wizarding World?

Laura: Well, do you think maybe that this was kind of a time of change for the wizarding world? Like maybe up until the point – up until that point, if you weren’t a pureblood, you weren’t really considered a wizard? You weren’t considered part of that world? And it came to the point where they discovered that yes, you could have magical abilities if you were half-blooded or Muggle-born, so they started kind of accepting those people into the world and kind of understanding that wizards would have died out if they hadn’t married Muggles and that sort of thing, kind of like what Ron said. That could sort of explain his resentment towards it, because you’re bringing all of these new people into this world that had been kind of a small community for so long.

Andrew: Right.

Micah: Well, I mean, part of the problem with that is you know that there are witches and wizards that were born to people that weren’t of a wizarding bloodline. So, would it have actually died out is probably a hard question to answer…

Laura: Well…

Micah: …if you have these children that are being born to people who, previously, had no magic in their history.

Laura: Maybe not technically, but in a sense of culture, I think it could’ve because if there was a point where Muggle-borns weren’t being notified of their magical abilities, they could have just gone on and married more Muggles and it would have gotten to the point where no one would really know magic existed, even if it did.

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: Well, they would know that they had power, though. I mean, certainly…

Laura: Well, Harry didn’t know he had power.

Micah: …they would have demonstrated something.

Laura: Harry just thought he was weird. [Laughs]

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: Well, so did Tom Riddle, but I think he always knew that there was something about him that was different from other people.

Laura: Yeah, but there are a lot of things that can be said – you can talk about a lot of things in that sense. For instance, I think every one of us kind of has a trait that’s distinguishable from other people.

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: Yeah, that’s true.

Laura: You can just…

Andrew: Like, I am excellent in my…

Laura: In your Wizard Rock band.

Andrew: …podcasting skills, and my Wizard Rock band.

Laura: And I absolutely fail in my podcasting skills. That’s what really…

Andrew: Yeah, you’re not that good.

Laura: …creates a contrast there. Yeah, I know.

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Andrew: You’re good at liking bad music.

Laura: Oh, please.

Andrew: Green Day.

Laura: Oh, please. You’re so full of crap. I like playing…

Wizarding World Pre-Hogwarts

Andrew: But anyway, this whole thing makes me wonder what the wizarding world was like before Hogwarts and the other two schools.

Laura: I think it was kind of – obviously, it did exist in the medieval time period, but do you think they kind of had the same philosophies as Muggles did? You know, the kind of torture and the…

Andrew: Torture?

Laura: Well, yeah! Medieval – God, they tortured people.

Dylan: That’s got to be in human nature, though. I guess it would just kind of be in human nature…

Andrew: To what? I mean, were there schoolhouses?

Dylan: Anything that the Muggles did would be in human nature. Maybe wizards are different, but…

Laura: Were there schoolhouses when the schools started?

Dylan: Oh, but I hope wizards are smarter not to war amongst themselves, but…

Andrew: Well, no, I mean, look at the colonial days in America. There were schoolhouses where it was one little schoolhouse, just one room with a hundred kids in it and they would all just sit there and learn everything all at once, no matter what your age was.

Laura: Well, no, I don’t think so, because there really weren’t schools in that sense during the time that Hogwarts was allegedly built, because it’s allegedly at least 1,000 years old. So, I doubt that there was any sort of school in that sense; I think that Hogwarts was a relatively revolutionary idea for its time.

Andrew: Right, yeah.

Micah: And they may have been afraid to do anything at that time, because they didn’t know what the consequences would be from even the Muggle world.

Andrew: Or just teaching kids magic?

What Made These Four Start Hogwarts

Laura: Yeah. Yeah, what would kind of – what was the influence there? What made these four people want to start this school?

Andrew: Doesn’t the Sorting hat say? Or…

Laura: No. You know what’s interesting about that Sorting song? It goes on and says, basically, essentially tells the school, “I’m going to tell you the whole tale of the founders,” but it doesn’t. It doesn’t really tell you anything aside from what they valued individually.

Andrew: Oh, right, right. Well, I’m going on MuggleNet’s Sorting Hat Songs Page.

Laura: I don’t appreciate that, Jo.

Andrew: I’ll read up on my…

Micah: Perhaps it’s really written in there and we’re too dense…

Laura: Yeah, we’re too dense to catch it. [laughs]

Micah: …to realize.

Andrew: They shared a wish, a hope, a dream,
They hatched a daring plan
To educate young sorcerers
Thus Hogwarts School began.

I love these school songs. They’re just [laughs] awesome, so that’s what we got from the Sorting Hat.

Laura: Yeah, it was just four people with a dream.

Andrew: With a dream, a hope, and a wish.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: You’re wishing for, what are they wishing for? Educated students?

Laura: Yeah, to educate. I guess to educate people because, when you really think about the way that civilizations have grown and changed, a huge contributing factor to that is education. If we didn’t have education, we would still be beating each other with clubs and…

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: …all sorts of wonderful things.

Andrew: They also shared a hope. The hope was, I guess, to…

Laura: Well, was there something terrible going on at that time? Was there a war going on in the wizarding world? Did they maybe hope to educate the next generation to kind of prevent any kind of conflict that was happening then from happening again?

Andrew: That’s good. That’s a good idea, actually.

Laura: Well, input?

Andrew: Well, I mean, what is the Hogwarts motto that the…

Laura: Oh geez, I know this. It’s Latin.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: But I know what is translates to. Isn’t it…

Andrew: Don’t trick a…

Andrew and Laura: Don’t tickle a sleeping dragon.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: [laughs] So, that has something to do with it.

Laura: [laughs] Maybe it does. Knowing Jo.

Andrew: The war broke out and – the war broke out and it all started by someone tickling a dragon.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, that’s it! We just solved it!

Laura: The key to the Harry Potter series…

Andrew: What else, what other reason could there be?

Laura: I don’t know.

Andrew: No, but, so, I guess the hope was to create a school where people who realized that they had a magical ability could come and…

Dylan: Yeah, and create an entire generation of – generations of youth that would be educated in furthering the cause of wizards.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah.

Laura: Right.

Dylan: They’d be better about hiding and smarter about dealing with Muggles and that sort of thing.

How Could Such Friendships Fail?

Laura: Kind of moving on, we see that these four friends were clearly, clearly very close people, whenever they started this, but clearly, something happened to change that. The Sorting Hat says during the song, “How could such friendships fail?” and this kind of implies to me, at least, that it wasn’t just Gryffindor and Slytherin who had a falling-out. I always kind of got the impression that, when Gryffindor and Slytherin started feuding, that the resentment kind of spread throughout the group and that it caused the school to essentially fall apart.

Dylan: To take sides and…

Laura: Yeah.

Dylan: …divide.

Laura: I mean, what could have possibly happened?

Dylan: Like the greatest nations; like Rome, the fall of Rome.

Laura: Yeah.

Dylan: The – you know, anytime there is a devise of a great civilization or any great society, it’s because it does not stay united.

Andrew: I think…

Laura: I mean, with the – go ahead.

Andrew: If you were the four founders and you start building this gigantic school and there is so much responsibility and planning and just over all general work that has to go into it, you’re bound to run into disagreements about different things.

Laura: Well, clearly there was a disagreement. [laughs]

Micah: But, what was so great…

Andrew: No. What I’m saying is that’s what broke up…

Micah: …of a disagreement that caused them…

Laura: Yeah.

Micah: …not to get along with each other?

Andrew: Well, just look at the size of the school. It could have started off with one little thing, “Where should this bathroom go?” Wasn’t it, who was it? Hufflepuff or Ravenclaw that built the floor plans?

Laura: Built the what?

Andrew: Who designed the floor plans.

Laura: I didn’t know we knew who designed the floor plans.

Andrew: Well, what was that one thing that says…

Dylan: I thought they all did.

Andrew: Wasn’t there something… [laughs]

Laura: [laughs] What are you talking about?

Andrew: …in the Sorting Hat song or something that said Hufflepuff or Ravenclaw came out with the… [trails off]

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: I’m going to look this up. Carry on.

Laura: In the Sorting Hat it said…

Andrew: I know I read that this morning.

Laura: It said, “Ravenclaw came up with the floor plans.” [still laughing]

Andrew: [laughs] No, that’s not what I’m saying.

Laura: [laughs] I don’t think it said anything along the lines of any one of the founders specifically designing the floor plans. I think it was kind of a collaborative effort, which could be where the conflict kind of arose from. I mean, when you think about it…

Dylan: Well, the conflict arose after the school was founded and after the school was built, so apparently it couldn’t have been over that.

Laura: Well, if you kind of consider; as a school progresses, it’s going to grow. I’m not sure that Hogwarts was nearly as big or as complex as it is now, when they first started it.

How Was The Chamber Built?

Laura: And that kind of – how would Slytherin, we know that he built the Chamber of Secrets, how could he have built such a vast chamber, how could he have created this secret entrance to it without the other founders knowing?

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: Because I really don’t think that, especially Godric Gryffindor, would have been too appealed by the idea of hosting a giant snake under the school.

Andrew: I don’t know. I think that he must have put some sort of magic on it to keep it quiet or undetectable, but he must have done it while they were away.

Was Magic Used in the Construction of Hogwarts?

Andrew: Like, okay, here’s my question. When they built Hogwarts, was it all magic or was it actually built? Like, I know they weren’t…

Laura: I don’t know, they could have…

Micah: It was a bunch of elves in construction hats.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Yeah. Well that’s why I’m saying…

Dylan: I would assume that they would use magic to put all the big blocks in beforehand.

Andrew: Yeah. I’m saying like who did the roofing, who did the plumbing? [laughs]

Laura: [laughs] I always kind of…

Andrew: [still laughing] I’m not saying those four walked out with tool belts.

Dylan: I think they could just like use magic to do it…

Andrew: Yeah.

Dylan: And it goes faster, I guess.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: I always kind of thought they used a preexisting castle.

Andrew: Really?

Laura: But that’s just me. Yeah.

Andrew: But then how would you add… Well, I guess…

Laura: Add what? Well, of course you could add on to it. I mean, clearly someone built buildings back then.

Andrew: I’m trying to think of a part of Hogwarts that wouldn’t – I guess that’s an interesting theory.

Did Magic Give Hogwarts a Mind of Its Own?

Laura: Well, kind of – you know, you kind of mentioned magic. Was the school completely composed out of magic? I don’t think that the actual structure was, but I think there was definitely a lot of magic put on the school. And we know that there is somewhat of a danger when you kind of put magic into inanimate objects, because as Mr. Weasley says, “You shouldn’t trust anything if you can’t see where it keeps its brain.” Is there kind of – is there a possibility that Hogwarts kind of grew out of control of the founders? As if to say they put so much magic into the school itself that it kind of grew a mind of its own? It was able to do its own bidding, and…

Andrew: Its own bidding?

Laura: Yeah, it’s own – kind of, you know, its own thing. Be independent of their will.

Micah: Like what though?

Andrew: Yeah, like…

Dylan: So, where would we find out this agenda of…?

Andrew: What do you mean?

Dylan: That the Hogwarts castle has.

Laura: [laughs] I’m not saying it has an agenda, I’m saying it has…

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: It…

Dylan: So, it has New Year’s Resolutions or something?

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: [still laughing] I’m just saying that it possibly…

Dylan: Does it get a birthday wish?

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Laura: Maybe, Dylan.

[Dylan and Laura laugh]

Laura: I’m just kind of saying that the school could possibly develop a mind of its own in the sense that the Ford Anglia did because Ron kind of remarked that it had become wild in the forest, and as we saw in Chamber of Secrets at the beginning of the book it only flew, drove, whatever, whenever Mr. Weasley or Ron or someone forced it to. But when it was put into the forest, which is clearly a magical place and a place where it would also have to defend itself, it clearly grew an independent streak, and I think that it’s possible that Hogwarts did the same thing. We know that the school has – it has its own character. I mean, it has doors that disappear on Friday, and staircases that move, and walls that pretend to be other things.

Micah: Well, I always thought that the Ford Anglia lost its own control and it was sort of being controlled by the magic that was surrounding the school once it entered, I guess, the air around it. And that’s part of the reason why it went into the tree and sort of did its own thing after that. So, I think the school definitely has its own magic that has been put there. I don’t know by who, and I know that’s kind of part of what you’re asking; but I think part of the reason why there’s certain things that operate on certain days and certain things that do their own thing is because it’s magic and that is just sort of Jo’s way of adding to what we’re reading and making it out to be something that’s magical.

Laura: Okay, but…

Micah: Do you know what I mean?

Is Hogwarts Dangerous Because of its Magic?

Laura: Yeah. Could you kind of turn that around to say that there’s a possibility that a place like Hogwarts could potentially be dangerous? Because it clearly has magic of it’s own that it’s able to exhibit and create influence on things around it. So who’s to say that the school couldn’t result in something terrible happening?

Hang On: Back to the Floor Plans

Andrew: Ummm, I just found my – hold on. I just found my evidence to prove you wrong, Laura. Which I enjoyed doing.

Laura: Uh oh.

Andrew: I actually found this on the Lexicon. “The famous wizard cards attribute this magical rearranging floor plan to Rowena Ravenclaw.” That’s what it was.

Laura: Oh, the magical cards. The Chocolate Frog cards?

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. Apparently it’s on…

Laura: You said the Sorting Song.

Andrew: Well, okay, so I got that part wrong. But my point is I… [laughs] That it was one of the founders who came up with the floor plans for the school. So, with that said…

Laura: Well, do you think Ravenclaw helped Slytherin create the Chamber of Secrets, then?

Andrew: No.

Laura: Why not?

Andrew: Because it was a secret. Because the Chamber of Secrets was a secret. That only he knew of.

Laura: You’re not being very helpful here. [laughs]

Andrew: Huh?

Laura: You’re not being very helpful here. So, I mean, if it’s a secret, who’s to say that is has to be a secret to one person?

Andrew: Ummm….

Dylan: Because it’s not the Chamber of Secret Societies, it’s the Chamber of Secrets.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: Well to… I mean, it’s not secret anymore.

Andrew: Well, yeah, right, but no one’s ever said that someone other than Salazar could have known, or would have, or did know.

Laura: Yeah, but no one’s ever said that no one else knew, either.

Andrew: That’s true, but even aside from that, that answers the question, “Could Hogwarts have been built or been used from an existing castle?”

Laura: Oh, yeah, that’s true. That must have taken a long time. If you think about it.

Andrew: It would have.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: [laughs] Small talk, with MuggleCast.

[Laura laughs]

More “Mind of Its Own” Discussion and the Danger of Hogwarts

Andrew: I would think that the – back on to the question of, “Would the school have a mind of its own?” I would think that the founders would know what they were getting themselves into if they were putting so much magic into the school.

Laura: But what if they did, though?

Andrew: I’m still confused as to what the mind – the school’s mind – would be able to do. I don’t get what you’re saying there, Laura.

Laura: Well, I guess – let me try to compare. Have you ever seen the movie Rose Red? Stephen King.

Andrew: No.

[Laura sighs]

Andrew: Keep going.

Laura: Okay. [laughs] Okay, basically it is one of the made for TV mini-series things that Stephen King likes to do, and it’s basically…

Andrew: What channel?

Laura: It wasn’t originally run for a specific channel. I don’t remember.

Andrew: Is it available on DVD?

Laura: Yes, it is. It’s available on DVD. But, it basically is about a house that has developed a mind of its own because it is inhabited by spirits that once lived there. And the house – it changes, and you’ll walk down a hallway, and it will build a wall so you can’t get back. That sort of thing. That’s what I’m saying about Hogwarts. It kind of has the same capability. Not for the same reason, but the school is definitely capable of doing great things, and I think that’s because of all the magic that the founders put into it. Obviously Tom Riddle’s diary would have been nothing more than a diary if Tom hadn’t put magic into it, and, clearly, that became a very dangerous item. So, is it possible that the school could be the same way?

Andrew: Well, the staircases have a mind of its own, but I guess it could. [laughs]

Dylan: You could just bewitch it like the Great Hall – the roof in the Great Hall. It’s bewitched to look like the night sky. You could bewitch the staircases to move.

Laura: Well, sure, but I just think that especially after these wizards have long since been dead, their magic has really held on and continued to grow. I couldn’t see that the school wouldn’t have a mind of it’s own, because you think about things like the Room of Requirement that will kind of appear at will and have very random assortments of objects in them, according to what the seeker is looking for.

Micah: But yeah, it is dangerous and that’s a perfect example because look at what happens in Half Blood Prince. But, I think if you look in any of the books, starting with Sorcerer’s Stone, you have the trap door and everything that they progress to, to finally get to the Sorcerer’s Stone. So, the school in itself is dangerous in that way. All the tasks that they have to go through for Harry to finally get to Quirrell. In Chamber of Secrets you have the Chamber of Secrets which is obviously dangerous. Prisoner of Azkaban

Laura: You have the Whomping Willow.

Micah: …the Whomping Willow plays a huge role. You look at any of the four tasks even though some of those areas were created just for that purpose, but, and then the Black Lake was – is a perfect example in Goblet of Fire.

Laura: Yes, and before we get rebuttals on it, we are completely aware that the Whomping Willow was planted by Dumbledore when Remus went to school, not…

Micah: Well, that’s my point though.

Laura: But I know that people are going to write in and say, “That wasn’t there when the founders built the school.” So, just kind of clarifying, we know that.

Micah: Yeah, but I think though the school itself is only as dangerous as the mechanisms that people use to put protective magic on. I don’t think the school has a mind of its own. It has a mind of its own as far as whatever magic people use to sort of make it this protective environment.

Laura: So, essentially what you’re saying is the school is a safe place as long as Dumbledore’s there which is what a lot of people have said throughout the series.

Micah: Well, no, no, no. It’s not, because look at what happened in Sorcerer’s Stone. All that magic that was used to protect the Sorcerer’s Stone was in fact dangerous to anybody who tried to seek it out.

Laura: Well I guess they were kind of operating out of the…

Micah: Slytherin put this Chamber of Secrets, look how dangerous it was to get down into that area.

Laura: Yeah, that’s true. But, wouldn’t you say that it’s also true that if you have the school under the command of someone like Dumbledore, it will be more of a safe place and it really couldn’t be used to do evil things in the sense that it could be, if say Voldemort controlled it. Because we’ve always known that Voldemort would love to get Hogwarts and turn it into a school of the Dark Arts. So, clearly, the magic can be manipulated.

Micah: I think… But to go back to what you said, Laura, about it being dangerous or not being dangerous when Dumbledore is there, I don’t agree with that because if you look at any of the six books, something bad has happened every year that he’s been there.

Laura: Well, yeah. That’s true.

Micah: Inside the castle, I would say that it’s safe from any danger happening from outside, so any external thing coming in, except for what happens at the end of Half Blood Prince, I’d say that he’s good at protecting from stuff on the outside, but as far as inside the school, I think a lot of things that he, himself instituted as protection has actually come up as a barrier to Harry and threatened him throughout the course of the series.

Laura: So, it basically can be dangerous from the inside because of how vast it is and how really – it’s kind of like one of those places where it’s so huge that someone could be living in it and you could never know for months.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah. Well, especially – you could never know period, ever, because of all the hidden rooms.

Laura: I heard Micah lives there.

Micah: Unless you have the Map.

[Short pause]

Micah: Yeah, I’m there…

Laura: Well, that depends though because obviously the map doesn’t extend to every room in Hogwarts. We know the Room of Requirement doesn’t come up.

Micah: I’m actually there right now. Podcasting from…

Laura: Where are you, Micah?

Andrew: Are you?

Laura: Where in Hogwarts are you?

Micah: I can’t give away that information.

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: I mean, does anyone have any last minute comments? I think that pretty much wraps it up. I think we had killed it.

Andrew: I guess.

Laura: We have 45 minutes of audio so far.

Andrew: Yeah. I don’t know, those founders.

Dylan’s Birthday and Layouts

Dylan: Should I probably say something about my voice being a little hoarse?

Andrew: I can’t – I mean, it sounds a little hoarse.

Dylan: If you guys haven’t noticed, my voice is kind of hoarse because last night was my birthday.

Andrew: Oh, was it?

Laura: Yeah, it was. Happy birthday!

Andrew: Oh, that’s right. Happy Birthday, Jam – or Dylan! [laughs]

Dylan: We were very loud.

Andrew: [laughs] How old are you? 18?

Dylan: I am legal. I’m 18.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: What does that mean? [laughs] Okay, yeah, Happy Birthday. Good stuff. And while we’re on it, we might as well plug your latest layouts. Want to talk about those?

Dylan: Oh yeah, there’s the new… There’s… I think we have four Christmas layouts out.

Andrew: Four?

Dylan: Yeah we have the Yule Ball, which is kind of a Christmas Eve layout. We have two brand new Christmas layouts and then we have the Hogwarts snowy layout. So, all those are good and my voice is still hoarse from last night. [laughs]

Andrew: I personally am a fan of the Hogwarts snowy layout. I like that. It’s nice.

Dylan: Oh yeah.

Andrew: Yeah.

Dylan: That’s a good one. And I also like the one where Dan’s like, “Oh, yeah.”

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Yeah.

Dylan: Like right in the middle he’s got the “okay” symbol. He’s like, “Happy Holidays, okay? You got it?

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah. I’m sure Evanna is very appreciative of you adding her picture in there. Is that the first theme with Evanna?

Dylan: Well, I made a Evanna Dumbledore’s Army layout.

Andrew: There is the Dumbledore’s Army layout that has her.

Dylan: Yes, she’s in the Dumbledore’s Army as well, but I made layouts for almost all the Order of the Phoenix high definition photos. I made layouts for all of them. But, you see the thing is that a lot of layouts were just one image or so and there wasn’t a whole lot going on, but you’ll probably be able to see those in the new layout archive that’s coming on. So you’ll be, you know, the Halloween layout, the past one. You would be able to find all the layouts that weren’t released so there won’t a big jumble of layouts in the corner there. You can find them in the entire section. So…

Andrew: Yeah that will be nice and handy.

Dylan: Yeah and it will be. There will be a lot more layouts for you to choose from and you guys can actually submit your own stuff. You can just tell me what you want to see on the site and I can make it for you guys. So if you want to see a Sirius layout, we’ll make a Sirius layout. You want to make a Snape layout, we’ll make a Snape layout. How about a Weasley layout? Who knows.

Andrew: Come on.

Dylan: This site is all about the fans. I mean, if you guys…

Andrew: I want a U2 layout.

Dylan: …want it, we can make it. Because the site is made for you guys. This is why we made it.

Andrew: Dylan, I want a U2 layout.

Dylan: A U2 layout?

Laura: Don’t do it.

Dylan: I don’t know. We got to get at least ten people to…

Andrew: Oh heck, that’s it?

Dylan: …e-mail me saying…

Andrew: [laughs] Throw a wand in there then it could be related.

Dylan: Or maybe I can put Bono [pronounced “bo-no”] right next to Harry or something I’ll just squeeze him in.

Andrew: [laughs] It’s Bono. It’s not “Bo-no.”

[Laura laughs]

Dylan: It’s Bono. I’ll put Bono in there.

Laura: Yeah, I don’t think we should do U2 because…

Dylan: Not the biggest U2 fan, but…

Laura: …I heard that it was actually Bono that killed Dumbledore.

[Andrew laughs]

Dylan: But they are very good artists.

Andrew: Yeah well, good job, Dylan, on the layouts and I’m sure that everyone is looking forward for the layout changer. When does that going up? Do you…?

Dylan: The layout archive? I don’t know.

Andrew: Yeah.

Dylan: It should be up soon, if Ben…

Andrew: Once Ben does it…

Dylan: Yeah.

Andrew: …It will be up.

Dylan: When Ben does it, it will be up.

Dueling Club: Snape vs. Mad-Eye Moody

Andrew: But moving on. We have a new Dueling Club this week. How about this one, someone e-mailed this this week, I think, and now I don’t have the name, I’m sorry. Snape versus Mad-Eye Moody.

Laura: Oh.

Andrew: I say Snape [laughs]

Dylan: Eh, Mad-Eye Moody

Laura: That’s difficult.

Andrew: Mad-Eye Moody – why Laura?

Laura: Because Moody – he clearly captured so many Death Eaters and put them in Azkaban. You know? He’s…

Micah: However, Barty Crouch did a pretty good number on him in Goblet of Fire.

Laura: I guess it depends if you’re referring to Moody in his element or the Moody that we know now.

Andrew: I would think that Mad-Eye… See, I… If Mad-Eye was capable of beating Snape, then obviously it is a good idea to have him in the Order of the Phoenix, but I think that – do you think that Mad-Eye trusts Snape?

Laura: Probably not. I don’t think he trusts much of anyone

Andrew: Micah, what do you think?

Micah: Well, Mad-Eye is definitely not as fast as he used to be and all the battles that he’s been in, he has pretty good examples of all over his body. So…

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah.

Micah: It would be hard and Snape is still pretty young and…

Dylan: Yeah, but Alastor Moody has got his experience marks.

[Micah and Laura laughs]

Andrew: [in deep voice] In more ways than one.

Dylan: Yeah, really. He’s got a lot of experience and that has to be worth something. He has captured a couple dozen Death Eaters, if to my knowledge.

Andrew: That is pretty good. I mean there’s not that much to say of Snape other than that he is very good at Defense Against the Dark Arts and Potions, but…

Laura: Well, the thing is, I think you can safely say is that Moody does have experience and wit on his side but Snape has youth, experience, wit and stealth. And I think in the end…

Andrew: And the courage to kill.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Dylan: Yeah because he actually pulled the trigger on Dumbledore

Micah: Yeah, they’re both pretty ugly. Who do you think would win in a staring contest?

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Andrew: What? How about a beauty contest?

[Laura and Micah laughs]

Dylan: I want to see them in a staring contest.

Laura: I don’t know, there are a lot of Snape fan girls who would be all over Snape winning that, I think, Andrew.

Micah: Well are they Alan Rickman fan girls or are they Snape fangirls?

Andrew: There is a difference.

Laura: No, they’re really – yeah, there are really a lot of Snape fan girls. Isn’t that kind of terrifying? I mean our very own Jess on MuggleNet is a huge Snape fan girl.

Andrew: Well, Jess is weird so I am not surprised by that.

Laura: No, she’s not.

Andrew: But anyway, we… [laughs] I’m just kidding.

Laura: She’s pleasantly odd, like me.

Listener Rebuttal: James and Sirius Related?

Andrew: [laughs] We have another e-mail this week: Megan, 23, of Michigan. She writes:

“Hey MuggleCasters. I was looking at the Black family tree and noticed that Dorea Black married a man called Charlus Potter. Underneath the two, it says that they had ‘one son.’ We know that James was an only child – I was wondering what you thought about the possibility of Dorea and Charlus being James’ parents.”


Laura: Yeah, I think so. [laughs]

Andrew: Not a bad theory.

Dylan: It could happen. It could happen.

Micah: Very possible.

Andrew: Well, wait a second. No, no never mind.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: She goes on to write:

“I also found it interesting that there are some Longbottoms found on the same family tree. This means that the two boys to which the prophecy of Voldemort’s defeat applied have close family ties with the very same family that produced Voldemort’s biggest supporters. It is true that all pureblood families are interrelated, so it doesn’t come as a shock, just an interesting observation. Love the show!”

[sighs] The Black family tree.

Laura: That is interesting.

Andrew: Very interesting.

Laura: Well, when you think about all the people…

Dylan: I think it’s definitely possible…

Laura: …that are related.

Dylan: I think it’s definitely possible, but I don’t know. Would Jo really do that?

Andrew and Laura: Do what?

Dylan: Relate them so closely? Maybe that makes sense.

Laura: Well, I think it kind of makes it interesting, because you consider all these people and how closely related they are, and how they all kind of feud with each other. I mean, when you connect pureblood families, it kind of makes me wonder how closely related Voldemort could be [laughs] to some of these people.

Andrew: Yeah.

Dylan: Yeah, but he isn’t pureblood.

Laura: Well, no, but he comes from – his father’s side was pureblood.

Micah: That would make…

Dylan: His mother’s side.

Micah: …Sirius and James cousins, wouldn’t it?

Andrew: I guess so.

Laura: By – yeah. Yeah, I guess so.

Micah: If we’re assuming that Dorea Black…

Dylan: Or second cousins.

Micah: …is Sirius’s mother’s sister.

Dylan: Twice removed.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah.

Micah: Right?

Andrew: [laughs] I guess so!

Laura: Yeah. [laughs] I guess. Yeah.

Favorites: Spells

Andrew: We’re going to play a segment now that we haven’t done in a while, and Dylan, I didn’t tell you about this earlier, so you should probably look one up, quick. Favorites, where we…

Micah: [laughs] Oh, I didn’t even look at that.

Laura: Awww, Favorites.

Andrew: Where we take a certain aspect of the books or movies, and we say our favorite of it. We haven’t done this in a while, and in the past, we’ve done favorite movie, favorite book, favorite just very general stuff. Now, here’s the request we’ve been getting for a while: favorite spell. And Laura, you want to start us off?

Laura: Sectumsempra.

Andrew: Sectumsempra?

Laura: [laughs] Yeah.

Andrew: Can you say why, Laura?

Laura: Ahhh…

Andrew: Other than that, it’s not funny to say. Sectumsempra.

Laura: Yeah. [laughs] Well, it’s not that; it’s pretty awesome. You think about the way that Harry was just, kind of, able to, in one flick of his wand, have Draco down on the floor and bleeding everywhere. It’s kind of a useful tool, if you think about it. Certain people who deserve it. Not that I’m violent, but…

Micah: Oh, wow! [laughs]

Andrew: Yeah.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Do you fancy…

Micah: Certain people who deserve it.

Andrew: …using that spell?

Dylan: I’m just saying, Laura, I’m going to keep my distance.

Laura: Perhaps.

Andrew: [laughs] Well!

Dylan: All right, well, my favorite spell would probably be the Bat Bogey Hex, because do you know how awesome it would be to be able to throw bat bogeys at everyone?

Laura: Yeah, that would be pretty cool. It would be fun.

Dylan: You’d just be like, I don’t know…

Laura: Would you ever do that to Emerson?

Dylan: …you’re annoying. Whap! Ummm, it depends. [laughs] But only if he deserved it. Like, legitimately.

Micah: I like Locomotor mortis, the Leg Locker Curse. [laughs]

[Dylan and Laura laugh]

Micah: Sounds like a wrestling move.

Andrew: Micah, you liking that kind of disturbs me, I’m going to be honest.

Micah: What’s that? [laughs]

Andrew: You liking that curse would – it disturbs me.

[Micah and Laura laugh]

Andrew: Okay, well, I would probably have to say my favorite is [mispronounces] Morsmordray, Morsmordre. Sorry. Because it’s the Dark Mark, and I remember…

Micah: Have you tried doing that outside your house?

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: [adopts an goofy voice]Yes, I have. No.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: I remember when I used to – when I first heard that spell in the books, I just thought that was so cool. That’s when I was 12 or 13, but I was a fan of that. It was so scary!

Dylan: You know, I would think that your favorite spell would be Vertigo or something.

Andrew: Vertigo? [laughs] If there was a spell. Only if. [laughs]

Laura: [laughs] Thank God there isn’t.

Listener Rebuttal: McGonagall

Andrew: Anyway, another e-mail, now.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Jacqueline, 19, of Utah writes:

“I heard your discussion for Episode 67.”

Oh, well, good.

“One part, in particular, really got me: the question about why Harry couldn’t and didn’t tell Professor McGonagall where he and Dumbledore had been, and I have to agree. The more people that know a secret, the more likely it is the secret will get out. I also couldn’t stop thinking of this particular line: ‘Dumbledore’s man through and through.’ Harry is loyal to Dumbledore, and that is why he doesn’t tell McGonagall. You also mentioned that she seemed to not take that very well. I think it has to do with the fact that she is used to the teacher-student role, and normally Harry would give up that information as a student, but here there is more at stake than 50 points and detention. I think that is why McGonagall reacts this way. She is just thrown off.”

Good thinking, Jacqueline.

Laura: Yeah, well, I think you’re probably right, Jacqueline.

Listener Rebuttal: Zacharias and Hepzibah Smith

Andrew: Burts, 14, of It-Was-Not-Me-It-Was-Not-Me-Snape-Did-It-See-He-Is-The-One-Who-Has-The-Wand-Not-Me. Okay.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Writes about “Smiths”:

“Dear MuggleCast, a thought popped into my head about Zacharias Smith, and Hepzibah Smith. Hepzibah Smith was the old lady who was a descendent of Hufflepuff and had Helga Hufflepuff’s cup and Slytherin’s locket, which Tom Riddle murdered her for in Half-Blood Prince. Maybe Zacharias and Hepzibah perhaps could be related regularly. I would perhaps have just let it go, but Zacharias is a Hufflepuff. If they are, what effect would it have in Book 7? I just wanted to see what you guys and Laura thought. Sincerely, Burts.”


Dylan: Or maybe it could definitely happen if they had pureblood relations.

Andrew: Yeah. Mhm.

Dylan: This is what we were talking about earlier.

Micah: Yeah, I would just want to point out that this is not the only person that has sent in this e-mail.

Laura: Yeah.

Micah: It’s come from a bunch of different people. So, but, yeah, it’s definitely a possibility.

Laura: Yeah.

Micah: But there’s also the fact that Smith is a very common last name.

Laura: Yeah. [laughs] As we know about Evans.

Andrew: Yes. [laughs]

Laura: Although it could just kind of be something, kind of like a point of interest. Like, yeah, they were related, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that Zacharias has the Horcrux.

Listener Rebuttal: Are Textbooks Enchanted?

Andrew: And finally, Hannah, 18, of New York writes:

“I was recently having a discussion about Harry Potter with some of my fan friends. We were discussing Nicholas Flamel from the first book, and during this discussion I came up with a theory that could be completely far-fetched, but I wanted to let you guys know anyways. In the British version, page 161, it says, ‘Mr. Flamel, who just celebrated his 656th birthday last year, enjoys a quiet life in Devon with his wife, Perenelle, 658.’ Some people think that this age may not be accurate, because we do not know when the book was published. I came up with the theory that perhaps wizard books are bewitched to automatically update all the dates every year, so that the ages stated in the book would always be true. It seems like this would be a simple enchantment for a full wizard to do, and I just wanted to know what you guys think, and if you think this is possible.”

I think that’s a good idea.

Laura: Yeah, I think it’s possible.

Dylan: That’s like the wizards’ form of Wikipedia or something.

[Micah laughs]

Dylan Spartz’s Inspirational Quote of the Week

Andrew: And finally this week, we are going to wrap things up with a Dylan Spartz Inspirational Quote of the Week. Now, this segment only ran two times, and now that Dylan’s on, I thought it would be only right for it to run again. Dylan, could you – could you please provide us with an inspirational quote?

Dylan: “We can do that. We don’t even have to have a reason.”

Andrew: [laughs] Okay, so please give it to us.

Dylan: That was it. [laughs]

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: [laughs] That was it.

Micah: That was the quote! [laughs]

Dylan: That’s the quote.

[Everyone laughs]

Dylan: “We can do that. We don’t even have to have a reason.”

Andrew: Oh, thank you, Dylan.

Dylan: That quote was from my favorite movie, Caddyshack. Any Caddyshack fans out there, way to represent.

Show Close

[End of show music begins]

Andrew: That does it for [laughs] for this episode of MuggleCast 68. Next week, I am very excited, it’s our holiday show, and I am even more excited for Episode 70, which is our New Year’s show, not just for the wizard rock song. We have a lot of fun stuff planned. [in a goofy voice] I don’t want to give away any details yet, but we do have some good things planned next week. We should have a nice holiday discussion, and everyone will be in a festive mood. Yay!

Laura: Yay!

Andrew: [laughs] So…

Laura: I want Micah to say, “Yay!” Say, “Yay!” Micah.

Andrew: Yay, Micah, do it!

Dylan: Yay!

Micah: Yay!

Andrew: Yay! Micah said, “Yay!”

Dylan: Hooray for the holidays!

Andrew: Micah sounded enthusiastic! Yay! We would like to remind everyone we have a PO Box. It’s located in Kansas.


PO Box 223
Moundridge, KS, 67107

If you want to send us stuff. You can also call in any voicemail comments, questions, to MuggleCast – the user name MuggleCast on Skype. Or you can dial 1-218-20-MAGIC in the United States. If you are in the United Kingdom, you can dial 020-8144-0677. If you are in Australia, you can dial 028-003-5668. You can also visit for the feedback form, or you can contact any of one of us. You could also reach us at our first name at staff dot mugglenet dot com. That includes Dylan. So, once again, I’m Andrew Sims.

Laura: I’m Laura Thompson.

Micah: I’m Micah Tannenbaum.

Dylan: I’m Dylan Spartz.

Andrew: Thank you, everyone, for listening, and we will see you next week. Bye-bye!

Micah: Bye!

[Music concludes]

[Audio]: This podcast is brought to you by Buena Vista Home Entertainment’s release of Step Up. When Tyler Gage, a rough and street-wise hunk with raw talent finds himself doing community service at a school for the performing arts, he also finds Nora, a beautiful and privileged classically-trained dancer who is searching for a new partner. Spying Tyler’s smooth moves, Nora decides to take a chance on him. But as they begin training, tension builds, tempers flare, and the differences in their backgrounds explode. On DVD December 19, rated PG-13.


Written by: Micah, Adrienne, Allison, Amanda, Briana, Eloise, Jessica, Judy, Martina, Matt, Megan, Samantha, Shannon and Shelly

Transcript 067

MuggleCast 67 Transcript

Show Intro

Andrew: This podcast is brought to you by Buena Vista Home Entertainment’s release of Step Up. Incredible dancing and awesome music fuel this exhilarating and inspiring movie, on DVD December 19th.

MuggleCast is also sponsored by If you want to make an impact online, has what you need. Plus, as a listener of MuggleCast, enter code “Muggle” when you check out and save an additional 10% on any order. Some restrictions apply, see site for details. Get your piece of the Internet today at!

[Intro music plays]

Andrew: Because there are 214 days to kill until Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, thank you, Zoe, 17, of England, this is MuggleCast Episode 67 for December 10th, 2006.

[Music continues to play]

Andrew: I am very concerned about Eric this week.

Jamie: Me, too.

Kevin and Laura: Why is that?

Andrew: He was scheduled to be on the show this week, and we cannot find him.

Kevin: Yet.

Jamie: He’s gone AWOL.

Andrew: I even drove to his house – it’s about an-hour-and-a half from here. I drove there and he wasn’t there.

Jamie: Wait, Andrew, wait. So, he was supposed to turn up an hour and 50 minutes ago, you drove there and it takes an hour and a half, and you’re back already? That is very impressive.

Andrew: Well, you see, I have a Time-Turner.

Jamie: Oh, damn. Yes, you do.

Andrew: Yeah, remember…

Kevin: Really?

Andrew: …for Halloween I was Harry Potter?

Kevin: Can you tell us how it works?

Andrew: I don’t know…

Kevin: No?

Andrew: …the parallel universe.

Jamie: Kevin, Kevin, it’s quite a complicated premise. You turn it and you go back in time.

[Andrew laughs]

Kevin: Oh, really?

Andrew: It’s crazy.

Kevin: Is that what it does?

Jamie: Yeah.

Kevin: Whoa!

Jamie: Bit of a surprise, eh?

Andrew: I’m Andrew Sims.

Jamie: I’m Jamie Lawrence.

Kevin: I’m Kevin Steck.

Laura: And I’m Laura Thompson.

[Music continues to play]


Micah: David Yates, director of the fifth Harry Potter film, spoke in a new interview about what direction he’s putting the movie in. Yates’s prestige has increased in the UK after producing hits such as Sex Traffic and The Girl in the Cafe, but it has been questioned why someone who makes “gritty, hyper-real, socially conscious films” is directing Potter. Producer David Heyman answers that question, saying: “Well, this movie is bit of a revolution.”

Order of the Phoenix presents Harry with his toughest experiences yet, and that’s what Yates is focusing on. He said, “I’ve stretched Dan quite a bit. He’s a very intuitive person, very bright, quite sensitive. I’m just helping him wake up those things. You can see his determination and ambition, and he can switch things on a sixpence, so I can’t wait for people to see what he’s achieving.”

Forbes has released a list of the top-earning authors of 2006, and JK Rowling came in second place. She trailed Dan Brown’s $88 million in earnings, pocketing $75 million from the Harry Potter books, movies, and merchandise.

Some photos and details of the upcoming Order of the Phoenix action figures were released earlier this week on You can see a number of photos over on, including one depicting Harry along with his Patronus.

Wednesday night, Daniel Radcliffe presented for the AFI Awards at the Melbourne Exhibition Centre in Australia, as well as appeared on the Channel 9 Today Show discussing his role in December Boys. The interview, which includes clips from his new movie, can be viewed on

The Common Knowledge Scholarship Foundation is holding a movie quiz which includes questions on the Potter films (along with Shrek, Aladdin, Toy Story, and a few others).

The contest is based on a series of short multiple choice quizzes. You receive 500 points for each correct answer and lose 1 point for each second taken to complete each question. The person with the most points at the end is the scholarship winner.

A $250 scholarship will be awarded to the person who gets the highest combined score on the two quizzes you must take.

Wow, did everyone follow that?

Finally, J.K. Rowling has donated the handbag that she carried during the premiere of Sorcerer’s Stone to raise money for The Women’s Fund for Scotland. The bidding closed on December 8th with the handbag raising over $600.

That’s all the news for this December 10th, 2006 edition of MuggleCast. Back to the show.

Update on Andrew’s Wizard Rock Band

Andrew: Okay, thank you, Micah. I have an update on my Wizard Rock band.

Jamie: Do you have a name for it yet?

Andrew: No, I don’t.

Jamie: Well, have you heard the – there’s a very, very simple formula for making a Harry Potter Wizard Rock band name. You take the name of a character, okay, so, for example, Sirius Black, okay?

Andrew: Okay. [laughs]

Jamie: Then the first word is just the first name of the character, then it’s, “and the,” and then you take the last name and add an “S” onto the end. And there you go, that’s your made-up Wizard Rock name.

Andrew: Well, what if I was like, Neville and the Longbottoms? Or does that exist already?

Kevin: Does it?

Jamie: Yeah, exactly. What about Albus and the Wulfric…

Andrew: Dumbledores?

Jamie: Albus and the Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledores. Be that, Andrew.

Andrew: Yeah.

Jamie: That would be awesome.

Andrew: I don’t know, that’s a little too long.

Jamie: It is quite long.

Andrew: It’s a little too long. I’m going for something short, but I’ve actually been getting a couple e-mails from some audio engineers and some – actually, some other Wizard Rock bands that have offered their assistance.

Jamie: Awesome.

Andrew: And I’m very appreciative of that. However, you know, it’s my own thing. I just want to do it on my own. I do have an update. Last week, I talked about the venues, trying to get into Madison Square Garden, places like that.

[Jamie laughs]

Andrew: I have actually signed on to several venues in the United States. Actually, there’s one in Mexico, so I guess I could say the world.

[Jamie laughs]

Andrew: And they’re all pretty big venues. Madison Square Garden is one of them. I don’t want to reveal any other dates or places because I don’t want any other bands booking their concerts around mine, because I want it to be sort of like, epic, you know, like there’s a big build-up to it. I don’t want like U2 doing a show right before it.

Jamie: Yeah, you don’t want that.

Laura: You don’t want U2 to open for you, right, Andrew?

Andrew: I just – yeah.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: No, no, just having a concert before me.

Jamie: You need a bigger band.

Andrew: I mean, they could open, I guess that would be okay.

Jamie: No, Andrew, Andrew. They aren’t really popular enough to open for you, you know? You want a big band to open for you.

Andrew: That is true.

Jamie: You know? To be honest.

Andrew: That is true. Yeah, and then I’m also – I signed a contract with a record label…

Laura: What record label?

Andrew: …and we will be…

Kevin: Yeah, what label?

Andrew: Well, I can’t say that, either.

Kevin: Oh.

Andrew: This is…

Jamie: You can’t say much, can you? [laughs]

Andrew: I don’t want other Wizard Rock bands to get the same idea. No, I can’t. I don’t want any other Wizard Rock bands to get the same ideas as me, it’s just sort of – it’s a big deal to me. I guess I could say there’s about 34 venues booked all across the United States and Mexico, and I guess I could say ticket prices.

Jamie: Four million? Ten million?

Andrew: No, that’s a little high. $250. And the show is going to be about five minutes long because I only have one single.

[Jamie laughs]

Andrew: But, I think it’s going to be worth it if you show up. There will be a pre-show.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: [laughs] Eric Scull will be a part of that.

Jamie: No, no don’t do that, because…

Kevin: And that will be…

Jamie: …it will last nine hours.

Kevin: Yeah, that’s what I was going to say.

Jamie: That will be a nine-hour show.

Andrew: Well, then it will be worth the money. So, it will be like twenty dollars an hour or something.

Jamie: There you go, that’s not that bad. Sort of.


Andrew: To that effect. So, that’s that. Don’t forget to vote for us on Podcast Alley. We are number two right now, behind Keith and the Girl. We’re doing good. We sent out a – what are they called on MySpace? – bulletins to everyone, and that helps us get up in the ranks a little bit. We ask everyone to vote for us once a month at Podcast Alley. We’re number two behind Keith and the Girl again. I don’t understand how they have a better – a bigger fandom – more dedicated fandom than we do. It doesn’t make sense because the people listening to this show.

Jamie: Our fans are the best and the most dedicated.

Andrew: Yeah, so it really doesn’t make sense to me. And don’t forget your MuggleCast t-shirts are going on sale. Our MuggleCast t-shirts are going out of sale very soon. The end of the month and, seriously, you need to stock up on these. It’s, you know, I used the squirrel example last week. I’m out of new ideas for that, but I encourage everyone to purchase a MuggleCast t-shirt.

Jamie: Well, apart from that you don’t eat your MuggleCast t-shirts.

Andrew: No, but what I said last week was that squirrels, they store up on nuts for the winter. You know how they do that?

Jamie: Yeah, but we – yeah.

Andrew: This is like you’re storing up on t-shirts for the rest of your life.

Jamie: Yeah, but, unfortunately, we won’t die if you don’t have a MuggleCast t-shirt.

Laura: Well, yeah, like how are people supposed to hibernate without their shirts?

Jamie: Yeah, that is a damn good point, Laura. That is a – that is fantastic.

Andrew: Instead of a coat, buy ten of these. They’ll keep you pretty warm, I think.

Kevin: Yeah, it’s going to be like A Christmas Story.

Jamie: And you’ll look awesome, as well.

Andrew: Yeah, you will look pretty good. [laughs] Maybe a little big, but you will look good in that.

Kevin: And if you could put your arms down, that would be an accomplishment.

Andrew: Yeah. And, of course, they do help support the show.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: Also, Jamie.

Jamie: Yeah?

Andrew: The book. You guys wrote a book.

Jamie: Oh, yeah we did.

Laura: Oh, they did, didn’t they?

[Andrew laughs]

MuggleNet’s Book

Jamie: Yeah, we wrote a book:’s What Will Happen in Book 7 – this is from memory – Who Dies, Who Lives, Who Falls in Love, and How the Story Finally Ends? Is that right?

Andrew: It’s Who Lives, Who Dies, Who Falls in Love, and How Will the Adventure Finally End?

Jamie: Yeah. There you go. Almost.

Andrew: I’m looking at the banner ad.

Jamie: And it is available on, and from our affiliate Alivan’s, so please order it, because it is quite a good read, I guess.

Andrew: You’ve been getting good reviews, and people…

Jamie: Yeah, well, we’ve been getting quite a – quite good reviews.

Andrew: Don’t talk about yourself down like that.

Jamie: Yeah, please. It’s an awesome Christmas present. It’s only $11.00, and I think it’s got two-hundred and eighty pages or something? On speculation, on stuff like: Is Snape good, is Harry a Horcrux? Stuff like that, so yeah, buy it, and have a very, very Merry Christmas.

Andrew: And what else? Episode 70, don’t forget to submit your MuggleCast remixes. There’s a lot of announcements this week, I’m sorry about that. [laughs] Episode 70, do not forget to submit your MuggleCast remixes. We’ve been getting a few. Last week you might remember my Frappr rap, as Eric called it. Someone actually put a beat to it, and it actually turned out really good. [laughs] So, that will be part of the show, along with my Wizard Rock single.

Happy Birthday, Jamie!

Andrew: And a Happy Birthday goes out to Jamie Lawrence here on the show who turned 20 the other day. Congrats, Jamie!

Jamie: Thank you.

Laura: So, Jamie, what are you closer to now?

[Andrew laughs]

Jamie: Well, there are a few things, Laura. I’m closer to 30 than ten, half way to 40, a third of the way to 60, a quarter of the way 80, a fifth of the way to 100. Name your cliche, I’m there now. You know? Seriously.

[Everyone laughs]

Jamie: And it’s not fun, I can tell you that.

Andrew: Yeah, I know. You’ve really been dreading it. [laughs]

Jamie: Oh, I have, I have. I don’t want to grow up. I want to be Peter Pan.

Kevin: [laughs] I knew you were going to say that.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Andrew: See…I…yeah…

Jamie: It’s true, though. He must’ve had an awesome life!

Andrew: Did you have a good – well, he’s not real – but did you have a good birthday?

Jamie: Oh, he’s not?

[Andrew laughs]

Jamie: I did have a very good birthday, thank you.

Laura: What did you do?

Jamie: Apart from – well, I went out for lunch with some good friends, and had a good time there, and then my college had their winter ball in the evening, which is a huge event in college, and it was themed winter wonderland, so there were roast chestnuts and mulled wine, and stuff like that. It was really good. And actually, there was a bouncy castle, but it was kind of…

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, tell the story about this.

Jamie: Well, it was the kind of bouncy castle where you race against…

Andrew: It’s like a maze, sort of?

Jamie: Yeah, you race against one other person. So, you go through the hole entrance, jump over the wall, over the second wall, crawl through the thing, and then roll over to dramatic applause at the end, you know, and hopefully you’ve won and beat the other person.

[Andrew and Kevin laugh]

Jamie: And I was having an awesome time on this, so I must have been on it ten, 15 times. And then I came home, felt fine, and went to bed, and woke up in the morning and had the worst pain ever in my left big toe, and I thought I’d broken it; I could hardly walk on it, it was insane. So, I called one of my friends and asked him to drive me to the hospital A&E department – Sorry, emergency room. Even though it really wasn’t an emergency.

Andrew: In the hospital or in Durham?

Jamie: Yeah, in Durham. Yeah.

Andrew: Okay.

Jamie: Yeah, and…

Andrew: [laughs] I was going to say.

Jamie: Yeah, I went there and saw a doctor, got an x-ray, and I haven’t broken it; I’ve just sprained the ligaments in my sort of lower leg ankle and toe. So, that’s nice. On my birthday, as well. That’s a good birthday present.

Laura: That’s like the second time you’ve injured yourself.

Jamie: Yeah, seriously. I know, I know.

Laura: First the trash can.

Andrew: [laughs] The first time was the trash can.

Jamie: Everyone listening: Enjoy bouncy castles responsibly. They are not a toy.

[Everyone laughs]

Jamie: Or wait, they are a toy.

Andrew: That might have to be the title of this show.

Jamie: What? Enjoy bouncy castles responsibly? [laughs]

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]

Jamie: No, seriously, do, do, and they may seem fun at the time, but when you wake up clutching a limb…

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Jamie: …blinded by the pain…

[Kevin laughs]

Jamie: …incapable of speech because of the intense agony, you know, they may not be so fun then. So, yeah. That’s your lesson of the week. [laughs]

Andrew: Thank you for that.

Jamie: Yeah, I had a good birthday, thank you. Apart from that. And it’s your birthday soon, Laura, as well, isn’t it?

Laura: Yup.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: 19th.

Andrew: 18.

Laura: I’m going to be old.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Jamie: Oh, Laura, are you actually joking? Are you actually joking?

Laura: I’m saying goodbye to my childhood.

Kevin: Don’t say that.

Jamie: I wish I was 18 again.

Laura: That’s so sad.

Kevin: Yeah, and hello to freedom.

[Andrew laughs]

Listener Rebuttal – Werewolves

Andrew: All right. Now that we got all the business out of the way,
we have a couple of e-mails. The first one now is from Musician22 of Sweden. She writes:

“You had a question about werewolves in the last episode. It was claimed that Jo has said werewolves can only be killed by silver bullets. This isn’t what she said. Because of discussions and rumors going around that Remus is going to be killed by the silver hand, she commented, on her page, that she assumes this is based on the old idea that a silver bullet is the only thing which can kill a werewolf. So, she doesn’t actually say that she has taken this on and uses this rule in the books.”

Jamie: Where did you guys get your information from? That is atrocious that
you said that.

Laura: I didn’t say it. The voicemail caller said it.

Andrew: Laura?

Kevin: I didn’t say it.

Andrew: It was the voicemail caller. Although, we didn’t correct the voicemail caller.

[Jamie and Kevin laugh]

Laura: Hey, that just goes to show, I put my complete and utter faith in the voicemail callers.

Andrew: In the voicemail callers. [laughs]

Jamie: Well, Laura, you’re naive then. Naive is what you are.

[Kevin laughs]

Laura: Just because I trust the fans…

Jamie: If a voicemail told you to jump off a cliff, would you go ahead and
do it?

Laura: Well, if a voicemail told you to go jump off a bouncy castle and break your toe, would you do it?

Jamie: Yeah, yeah I would.

[Andrew, Kevin, and Laura laugh]

Jamie: Which is exactly why I did it. They told me to have a good time on my birthday, so that’s what I did, yeah.

Kevin: And look where it got him. See?

[Andrew laughs]

Listener Rebuttal – Where Dementors Come From

Andrew: Lily, 14, of Texas writes:

“I have several things to say about the Dementors. For the first thing, I was under the impression that when Dementors breed, that it creates fog. Kind of continuing with this theory, I had an idea that maybe Dementors are created whenever something so terrible happens to a magical creature, and then they choose to become a Dementor rather than keep on living. Another unlikely theory is that whenever anything unhappy happens, the bad memory kind of drifts up into the clouds and then a Dementor is born. These are kind of crazy out there kinds of theories, but they are worth a shot.”

I kind of like that idea.

Laura: Ummm…

Jamie: Yeah, that’s…

Andrew: A bad memory drifts up into…

Kevin: Yeah, didn’t they say that they reproduce?

Laura: Yeah, they take – they suck the happiness out of the air, I don’t
know. It just doesn’t seem plausible to me.

Jamie: Do you know what that reminded me of, that idea, the first idea? Have any of you seen or read IT?

Laura: Yes.

Jamie: By Stephen King.

Kevin: Yeah, yep.

Jamie: Did you know when IT only appears when there’s a great tragedy like the bombing of a pub, or a child death, or something like that.

Laura: Mhm.

Jamie: It seems kind of like that, when something happens to a magical creature that a Dementor is made or something like that. I don’t know. It’s interesting, though, very interesting.

Laura: Well, I always just kind of took it to mean that anytime something bad was happening Dementors just kind of flocked there to feed.

Jamie: They feast on it, yeah.

Laura: To feed off of the emotion. But not that…

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: …not that they’re bred from it, really. I always thought that their breeding was strictly something that they did, not that was caused by…

Jamie: Eugh! Imagine seeing Dementors doing it.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, that would be very uh…

Jamie: Eugh, Andrew, eugh!

Andrew: Nice? [laughs]

Jamie: Eugh! Eugh!

Andrew: Ewww, like O-M-G!

Jamie: OMG, like oh my god, man.

Listener Rebuttal – Draco’s Role in Movie Five

Andrew: Okay, so thank you, Lily, for that. Anna Fahlen, 15, of Sweden; she writes:

“Hi! I just realized that we haven’t seen one single picture of Draco yet in all of the pictures and videos that are here now…” In reference to Order of the Phoenix the film and images. Do you think that means that he’ll play a smaller part in Order of the Phoenix? From, Anna.”

And I’m trying to think now if we saw any pictures on set. I mean, obviously, he’s going to have a big role at the end.

Jamie: Yeah, yeah.

Andrew So, I mean, what else do you want to see out of – Oh, when he’s
catching them coming out of the Room of Requirement. Hopefully that’s in the movie.

Laura: Yeah, I hope so, too.

Jamie: That should be in. That’s so…

Kevin: Maybe it’s just the fact that he doesn’t show up that often, we
haven’t seen him, just specific parts throughout the book, you know?

Andrew: Yeah. I actually do remember they do have a couple pictures of
Draco in Umbridge’s office when they catch Harry…

Jamie: That scene…

Andrew: …when he’s talking to Sirius in the fire.

Jamie: That scene could be either amazing or…

Laura: Or…

Jamie: …or it could be terrible.

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: You know? The Dumbledore fighting scene. I don’t know, I would –
that’s probably the scene I am most looking forward to. I would love to see Dumbledore do that.

Andrew: Yeah, I love that scene in the books.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: It’s very, very powerful. So, yeah, I think we will be seeing Draco, just maybe not as much in the book. It’s interesting now that they haven’t really released any pictures of him. But they’ll come in due time.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: They do have them.

Listener Rebuttal – Speaking Intelligently

Andrew: Kelly, 26, of West Virginia writes:

“Hello, everyone! I’m a new listener to the show but a long-time Harry Potter fan. As an English teacher, it is so nice to hear young people (and people near my age) speak intelligently and intuitively about something I find absolutely magical.”

Well, thank you, Kelly.

Kevin: Well, some young people.

Andrew: Yeah.

Kevin: Jamie and I aren’t young anymore.

Andrew: Jamie, can we consider you old now?

Jamie: Yeah, you can.

Andrew: Now we can’t call you a teenager? You’re not one of the older folks?

Jamie: No I…

Andrew: You are one of the older folks, I mean.

Jamie: Do you know what happened the other day? Okay, I have to tell you this
story because I was so annoyed, okay?

Andrew: Okay.

Jamie: I have a locker in college where I can store stuff, okay?

Andrew: Yeah.

Jamie: Now. I had three items on me. I had my keys, I had my MP3 player, and I had my coat, okay? Now I went to this locker, okay? And I opened the locker and I put my coat and my MP3 player in there, okay? Then I closed the locker, walked away. Then I realized I’d left my keys in the locker, so I came back, opened it.

[Kevin laughs]

Jamie: I have no idea why I opened it – I took my stuff out, then sort of put it back in and messed about for a second. Then I locked it, took my keys, and walked away and realized that I was still carrying my coat, so I went back, opened the locker…

[Andrew and Kevin laugh]

Jamie: …put my coat in, closed it, I don’t know what was happening, walked away, and I was carrying my MP3 player. So, then…

[Everyone laughs]

Jamie: So, I went back, was really thinking about it this time, put everything back
and walked away, very, very annoyed that I was getting old.

Andrew: Well, gee, it only took you four or five times. [laughs]

Jamie: It’s embarrassing. Seriously, 20 years old, and I can’t even remember stuff.

Andrew: A lot on your mind or something?

Jamie: Huh? I just had stuff on my mind I guess, you know?

Andrew: I do hate – I hate when that happens, too, when you close your locker. See, what is it, a combination locker?

Jamie: Oh no, it’s just a key locker.

Andrew: Oh, there’s no – oh, so – oh, you need a key.

Jamie: No it’s a retina scan, Andrew. It’s a retina scan.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: The ones in my high school, they’re combo locks, and after you shut
it, like accidentally, and then you realize you left something in there.

Jamie: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Andrew: It’s like, “Awww, nuts.” Anyway, let’s finish this rebuttal. [laughs]

Jamie: Andrew, Andrew, these lockers, I keep such important stuff in there,
it’s a key, a retina scan, a fingerprint scan, and then I…

[Andrew laughs]

Jamie: …and then it takes a blood sample and it has to identify my DNA.

Tangent: No One Wants Andrew’s Blood

Andrew: Send it do Processing. Well, anyway, speaking of blood samples, I’m
sorry the show’s getting off topic.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: There was a blood drive at my school today and um…

Kevin: Did you go?

Andrew: No, I couldn’t go, because…

Laura: Did Bono donate his blood, Andrew?

Andrew: Yes, I took it and I’m on a natural high 24/7.

[Kevin laughs]

Andrew: But anyway, there was a blood drive at school today and I wasn’t able to do it because I went to England and they’re afraid – now, Jamie, what do you think of this?

Jamie: Really, is that true?

Andrew: They don’t let you do a blood drive if you’ve been in England for a certain amount of time…

Jamie: Why?

Andrew: …on a trip, so I couldn’t.

Jamie: Why? What reason did you give? You were here for about ten hours.

Andrew: [laughs] Because you guys have Mad Cow.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Kevin: Yeah.

Jamie: Is that it?

Kevin: It is.

Andrew: Seriously, it’s because they don’t want Mad Cow.

Jamie: We personally have mad cow? Oh, cows have Mad Cow, you mean?

Andrew: Well, British people – well apparently – good point. Yeah, yeah. Apparently the meat or something – because I had eaten a burger and like I checked with them. I said, “I was only there for three days.” They said, “Well, what’d you eat?” You know, stuff like that. Yeah. [laughs]

Jamie: And you were like, “Oh, yeah. I kept a food diary when I was over. I know exactly what I ate.”

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah. Well, I remember the burger because I didn’t like it. At all.

[Andrew and Kevin laugh]

Kevin: That’s because it had Mad Cow.

Jamie: Yeah, probably.

[Andrew, Kevin, and Jamie laugh]

Andrew: But, anyway. Anyway, let’s…

Jamie: I think that’s absolutely – possibly one, if not the, most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard in my life.

Andrew: It’s funny and I knew you would probably get a little angry at that. But anyway…

Jamie: No, no. I don’t mind if they want that but, you know, everyone’s short of blood and they say like…

[Andrew laughs]

Jamie: “Oh are you under, you know, however many ever pounds? Are you over 6’9? Oh, oh, you can’t give blood then.”

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah. Right.

Jamie: “If you’ve got blonde hair, oh you can’t give blood then. Black hair, you can’t either.”

Andrew: Right.

Jamie: It’s ridiculous.

Listener Rebuttal – Percy and The Veil

Andrew: Yeah, yeah. I know, so anyway.

“The reason I am writing to you is because on your last show there was a discussion on whether or not Percy would give Harry a clue as to how to contact Sirius through the veil and how the meaning of Percy’s name in Old French is “pierce the veil.” Just to play the devil’s advocate, I thought it would be interesting to point out that Percival is also a middle name of Dumbledore’s. I don’t think that means that Dumbledore could “pierce the veil” by still being alive or coming back to life, but I thought it was worth mentioning and pondering.”

Did we ever talk on the show about why Dumbledore’s hand was black? We must’ve.

Jamie: No, that’s…

Kevin: Yeah, I’m sure in the past.

Laura: We’ve talked about that.

Kevin: It was – yeah.

Andrew: Because some people think that it’s because he might have tried to reach into the Veil.

Kevin: No. I think that we established that it was a curse.

Andrew: Yeah.

Jamie: Yeah, it was. Yeah.

Andrew: Now before getting into our main discussion this week we had planned something else for the show. However, we could not get it done due to technical difficulties. However, Micah, Laura, and Kevin recorded a main discussion earlier today and here it is now.

Main Discussion: Traitors and Innocents

Laura: All right, thanks Andrew. So, then there were three.

Micah: Well, not really three. It’s more like…

Kevin: One of lesser importance.

Micah: …two, plus we added one in at the last minute.

Laura: Oh, that’s right.

Kevin: Of lesser importance.

Micah: Oh, thanks Kevin.

[Kevin laughs]

Laura: It’s kind of like that other show.

Kevin: I was waiting for you to react, but I wasn’t getting anywhere.

[Laura and Micah laugh]

Laura: Well, last minute we kind of came up with this idea to talk about traitors and innocence in the books and particularly how they’re going to relate to Book Seven. Now, I think probably one of the most pertinent questions would be, if there is a traitor to Harry’s cause in Book Seven, as there has been in every other book, who’s it going to be? Is it going to be someone that we’ve known since the beginning of the series, or is it going to be a relatively new character?

Kevin: Well, I mean, right now, I think I thought you were going to say it. We’re not really sure if Snape is a traitor yet.

Laura: Right.

Kevin: So, it could be a trend, but we’re not really sure.

Laura: I guess you could kind of look at it as being someone that Harry believed to be a traitor at the time. I guess Snape could turn out to be the one who is innocent in Book Seven, if you know what I’m saying? But Micah, you kind of had an idea of how we could look at this and kind of decipher how it would come out.

Micah: Yeah. I thought it would be a good idea to sort of go book by book and look at the people who were traitors and see if Harry actually knew them beforehand or if they just came into play in that particular book. And I thought that would give us a better idea of whether maybe in Book Seven it would be somebody that we knew or if it would be a relatively new character.

Laura: Okay.

Micah: So, I guess let’s start with Sorcerer’s Stone.

Laura: Yeah. He didn’t really know Quirrell. I mean, he met him in the Leaky Cauldron.

Kevin: Yeah, although it was the first – it was the first book.

Laura: It was the first book, obviously.

Micah: Exactly.

Kevin: Of course it’s going to be a newer character because everyone’s just getting introduced, but it just seemed – I don’t know, he…

Laura: Again if you think about it, Ginny wasn’t exactly someone he knew particularly well. I mean, her betrayal was unintentional. But…

Micah: She was briefly mentioned in Sorcerer’s Stone.

Laura: Yeah, she was briefly mentioned and Harry didn’t really pay her all that much mind in the book. Obviously he thought Peter Pettigrew was dead, so he didn’t know him either. He didn’t know the imposter Moody, Crouch Jr., however you want to look at it, or Marietta Edgecombe. The only person he really knew was Snape.

Micah: Well, I don’t know about that. I mean, in Prisoner of Azkaban, Scabbers is really the one who betrayed him when you think about – Scabbers was definitely mentioned in the first two books.

Laura: Yeah, but I mean they’re the same. [laughs]

Micah: And I think Marietta Edgecombe probably got a couple of mentions before Order of the Phoenix. I think, really, the only one would have to be Goblet of Fire

Kevin: Yeah. I think so too.

Micah: …so far, where it’s a brand-new character that’s brought in. I mean, there may have been mention of Mad Eye Moody, but obviously it wasn’t Mad Eye Moody.

Laura: Right, right.

Micah: And I don’t think Barty Crouch Jr. gets mentioned in any of the first three books.

Laura: No, I don’t think so either.

Micah: So, I think that’s really the first book where we get a traitor that’s…

Kevin: But, do you think it’s her intention to do that, or do you think it’s just…? It seems to me like…

Laura: I’m not sure she’s trying to create a pattern.

Kevin: Exactly. It seems like it’s just overanalyzing the fact that people are being betrayed, but at the same time, you know, it’s not necessarily because they’re a new character or an old character. It’s just…

Laura: Yeah. I think there was just kind of a point to establishing that in every book there’s been one character who Harry either thought was innocent or he didn’t even really regard as being someone who would do something evil, and one character who he believed had done something wrong but really hadn’t. I don’t really think it has anything to do with, you know, how well he knew them or anything. That kind of…

Kevin: Yeah, and I mean it sort of goes with the theme of, you know, the dark theme of the Harry Potter books, or at least where they’re going.

Laura: Right.

Kevin: Because you really don’t know who’s going to betray you.

Laura: Yeah.

Kevin: And you know there’s going to be betrayal in this story. So…

Be Careful With The Prophecy

Laura: Oh obviously, and I mean Dumbledore was pretty insistent that Harry only tell Ron and Hermione about the Prophecy and stuff, so do you think that he suspects someone close to Harry is feeding information to Voldemort; like one of his friends, a teacher, someone in the Order?

Kevin: Well it’s possible that or you have to remember that the more people you talk to, the more people are…

Laura: The more people that can be manipulated.

Kevin: Exactly. Or exposed to it. I mean, if you talk to two people, as opposed to five, there’s less likelihood of someone overhearing you or some mistake happening where, you know, “Oops. It got out.” And especially with that information, it’s so pivotal to his cause that if that got out, it would be devastating.

Micah: Yeah, I agree.

Laura: So why can’t Harry tell Ginny, though? Why can Harry only tell Ron and Hermione and not Ginny?

Micah: No, I think because Dumbledore has seen the level of trust that Harry has had in them throughout the first six books. Or five and three-quarters, I guess, if you want to mark off where he kicked the bucket. But…

[Kevin and Laura laugh]

Micah: …I really think that that’s what it has to do with, the fact that they put so much trust in him and he put so much trust in them. And I think it has a lot also to do with what Kevin said, the more people that become aware of what’s going on and know the facts, the greater opportunity is for that information to leak out to the wrong people. And as far as Ginny is concerned, you know, she’s already been possessed by Voldemort once, perhaps Dumbledore doesn’t want to take any risks.

Horcrux Ginny and Her Vulnerability

Laura: Right. Actually, we’ve gotten a few rebuttals and a few suggestions from people who have pointed out that in the – in Chamber of Secrets, Tom Riddle said that it got to the point where he was able to start pouring bits of his soul back into Ginny. And a lot of people think that this could constitute her being a Horcrux. I’m not sure how I feel about that, but I think there’s always the possibility that she’s still vulnerable if he ever tried to posses her again.

Kevin: I mean, I think she may be a little vulnerable just because of that experience, but the theory that he poured bits of his soul back into Ginny – I always interpreted that as he was gaining control over her, like replacing her with him, kind of.

Laura: Yeah, but I always kind of took it as he was giving her parts of his soul to keep her alive because he was draining her.

Kevin: It just seems… It just seems… Yeah. It just seems so far fetched to have her come into the story again in that sense. You know what I mean? I always – now that we know that Harry likes her and she likes Harry, I sort of thought that it was going to be more of a supportive role, and not a vital role in the sense of, you know, “I’m going to screw up what you’re trying to do.” You know what I mean?

Laura: Well, I don’t think that, I don’t think that – I don’t know. I don’t think she would try to screw him up intentionally.

Kevin: Yeah, well, not intentionally. It just seems like it’s redundant to have her once again be the unintentional bad guy.

Laura: Yeah. Yeah, but then look at Snape. I mean, Harry thought all along in the first book that he was a bad guy, and then he thinks again in the sixth book.

Kevin: Well, he’s… But with Snape it’s different because he’s always viewed Snape as a bad person, you know?

Laura: Yeah, that’s true.

Kevin: Whereas Ginny is one of the good guys, definitively one of the good guys. You know?

Laura: Yeah, but I mean, to kind of get, I mean…

Kevin: I should say good girls. I don’t know.

[Laura laughs]

Micah: I have one thing to say, though, about Ginny before we move on, related to that whole Chamber of Secrets passage that you mentioned before. I always thought that that had to do specifically with the diary Horcrux, and that when he was pouring bits of his soul into her, that that was all tied into that particular Horcrux.

Kevin: Yeah, me too.

Micah: So, that when it was destroyed…

Kevin: Yeah, that’s another – it destroyed any pieces that might have been. Yeah.

Laura: Maybe it destroyed that, too.

Micah: Exactly.

Laura: That’s interesting.

Micah: So I don’t think she’s going to sort of reemerge as a Horcrux.

Laura: But then again…

Micah: And the thing is, Dumbledore, for as great as his mistakes are, or so he claims them, I think that he was pretty specific in his listing of Horcruxes and that he did a fair bit of research before he went to Harry and said, “These are what I think the remaining Horcruxes are, and I think this is where you need to base your focus.” I don’t think we’re going to have, sort of, this unbelievable Horcrux come out at the end, such as Ginny.

Laura: Well, I get where you’re coming from when you say if that Horcrux was destroyed, anything that was left in Ginny might be too, but if you remember, Voldemort was using Quirrell as a host, and when he died, Voldemort fled his body. And Ginny’s still alive so, if there were any remnants of Voldemort’s soul in her, they could very well be parasites. Almost.

Micah: It’s definitely possible, but I don’t – I guess she was used as a traitor once, so to speak, and I don’t see her getting reused as a traitor again. Again, I see Book Seven as a very big quest, so to speak, and I don’t see, in the end, Harry fighting the final battle and having someone that he’s known for so long become this traitor in his midst. I just don’t see it happening that way. Plus, what happened in, I think it was one of Jo’s interviews, she said that really, as far as new characters were concerned – and this kind of goes back to asking the question, would it be a new character that we meet in Book Seven that becomes a traitor to Harry. I thought she said we were pretty limited on the new characters that we were going to be introduced to.

Laura: Yeah, I don’t know. I just feel like that, especially when you say that, if there is someone that betrays Harry in Book Seven, there’s got to be, it’s got to be someone he knows. And I’ve seen a lot of people who honestly think it would be kind of a cool twist if Ginny turned out to be a traitor intentionally. I think that would be very sad, [laughs] but a lot of people think it’d be cool.

Micah: Yeah. It’s kind of hard to think that would actually be the case, but I don’t know if there’s enough room for that sort of back story. Do you know what I mean?

Laura: Yeah, that’s true.

Micah: Because the fact that she would have been a traitor for all this time, you would need a ton of back story to go back and retrace the steps that she’s taken throughout the series to sort of put Harry in a compromising position.

Laura: Yeah. I don’t know. I think that, I mean, I always kind of wondered if there’s something we’re going to learn about Ginny because there’s obviously something pretty special about her. I mean, she’s the Weasley – the only girl born to the Weasley family in, what, seven generations. She’s the seventh daughter. So I think there’s something definitely…

Micah: Seventh child. Or…

Laura: Or seventh child and only daughter. Right. I don’t know. I just thought that there could be something a little bit different about her. I think that at any rate, even if she wasn’t a traitor, she would be someone that Voldemort would like to have on his side.

Micah: She’s a pureblood.

Laura: Yeah, she’s a pureblood, and she’s powerful. But, kind of moving along, I’ve seen a lot of people…

Micah: Yeah, we’re done with Ginny.

Laura: [laughs] Yeah, get over it.

Micah: Yeah, that’s the end. Sorry.

McGonagall: The Spy

Laura: [laughs] Oh, and just so that everyone can know, Kevin is in the bathroom. See, he just keeps getting busier and busier. He’s so much better than we are. But, a lot of people seem to think that McGonagall could be a traitor, and they think this because of how flustered she got at the end of Half-Blood Prince, like when…

Micah: Noooo.

Laura: What? [imitating Micah] “Noooo: Why do you say that?

[Micah laughs]

Laura: [laughs] I know I can’t…

Micah: [still laughing] How are you going to say that the head of Gryffindor house is a traitor? Come on!

Laura: She’s not the heir!

Micah: No…

Laura: Did you say she was the heir of Gryffindor? [laughs]

Micah: Did I? I meant head…

Laura: [laughs] Oh okay, because I was, like…

Micah: … head of Gryffindor house.

Laura: Well, why not?

Micah: I thought that’s what I said. Maybe I didn’t.

Laura: Why not? Why couldn’t the head of Gryffindor house be evil? Peter Pettigrew…

Micah: That’s a bad reason.

Laura: …was a Gryffindor.

Micah: That’s a bad reason.

[Laura laughs]

Micah: I don’t see her as – as a traitor. She just doesn’t strike me as the type. I think the reason that she was so flustered that Harry wouldn’t share information with her is probably because that she wanted to do as much as she possibly could to help him out and to try and figure out what her next step was going to be, now that she’s the head of this school, and she can’t because he’s not giving up any information. But Dumbledore was very specific.

Laura: Yeah, I think so – I think so, too. But, why would he – I don’t know. I think that what you and Kevin said was right, about the more people you tell, the higher chance you have of it getting out, someone being manipulated. But, at the same time, I think that Dumbledore doesn’t like to keep information from people who need it.

Micah: Right.

Order, Teacher or Student Traitor?

Laura: And I don’t think he would do that for no good reason. I think that there has got to be someone that he’s kind of suspicious of, and it could be a teacher, it could be a member of the Order. Who do you think is most likely?

Micah: [sighs] That’s such a hard question. I don’t know, really, what the qualifications are for somebody to be in the Order. Obviously, it has to do with Dumbledore assessing that person and saying to himself that he has enough trust in this person, and maybe it’s something that that individual or group of individuals has done in the past to sort of warrant his trust. I mean we don’t 100% still know why he trusted Snape. That’s still a big mystery. But as far as trusting McGonagall…

Laura: Really? I thought we knew why he trusted Snape.

Micah: Why’s that?

Laura: Because Snape showed remorse.

Micah: When?

Laura: Over Lily and James’ death.

Micah: How so?

Laura: He came to – didn’t he come to Dumbledore? It seems like, I don’t remember specifically what happened. I can’t remember. All I can remember is Harry getting really, really ticked off when he found out that it was Snape that had been the spy in the – in the Hog’s Head that night. And it almost seems like Dumbledore had kind of gathered his trust in him, because out of his remorse for what he had done, he turned spy for the Order.

Micah: Yeah, I’m not entirely sure that I believe that that’s the ultimate reason why he trusts him.

Laura: The ultimate reason? You think he might have done something else?

Micah: Yeah, I think there’s something else that we don’t know that ties the two of them together as to why he put so much trust in Snape.

Laura: Right.

Micah: I think there has to be a much bigger reason, but kind of going back to the whole is there somebody out there that Dumbledore didn’t trust? It’s possible, but I’m not quite sure who is feeding him – ah, I don’t know. [laughs]

Laura: Well, let’s look at it this way. The Order was infiltrated the first time by Pettigrew. Do you think it’s being infiltrated again? I think it’s – I think it’s a great possibility. I’m not sure who it would be. I’m not – everyone seems so great. We’ve gotten to know these characters. Most of the people in the Order that are very important, we’ve seen in the books at least since Book Three, so it’s really hard to kind of put your finger on who would be the traitor. It just seems more likely to me that it’s someone like a teacher or an Order member than a student. It’s more likely to be one of them than, say, Ginny?

Micah: Well, it’s very hard for a student to obtain any type of information to pass along, and it’s not going to be Hermione, it’s not going to be Ron. So…

Laura: No.

Micah: Those are the two people that are closest to Harry that have any sort of information. So, I think, like you said, if somebody is passing along information, it is a teacher, or it is a member of the Order, but we haven’t yet seen any instance where Voldemort has used information that we wouldn’t expect him to know. And obviously, he was absent completely during Half-Blood Prince, so we don’t know if it’s possible he was acting on information during that book. I just…

Kevin: Well…

Micah: Sorry, go ahead. I didn’t even know you were back. [laughs]

Kevin: I was… I was just… Yeah. I was just going to say that students are just as likely as teachers to be spies, to betray, in the sense that who is going to have access to Harry other than students that are around him?

Laura: Yeah, but that kind of goes back to the whole debate of whether Harry will be at Hogwarts in Book Seven?

Kevin: True, but it also – do you think if Harry’s not at Hogwarts, will Ron and Hermione be at Hogwarts?

Laura: No. I think that Ron and Hermione are going to go with Harry wherever he goes. They said they would.

Kevin: Because it just seems like if – it seems to me that anyone is likely to be someone who could be potentially, you know, turn to Voldemort’s side, whether it be a teacher or a student.

Laura: Well, Draco proved that it was fairly easy for a student to infiltrate the school, so I mean I’m sure that a student could be a traitor. I’m just not sure who it would be. Because if you think about the people that Harry really has instilled the most trust in throughout the whole series, then, of course, that’s Ron and Hermione, and the next people down the totem pole would be Ginny, Neville, and Luna. And I just don’t see any of them as being evil.

Protection from Voldemort

Micah: Well, what if you look at it the reverse way, though? I mean, what if Dumbledore said to only tell those two people because, obviously, the more people that know it, the greater chance it has of leaking out, but what about the greater number of people who know it, the more risk is exposed to those people? So, I mean, that means the greater number of people that Voldemort could potentially…

Kevin: Capture…

Micah: …and torture…

Kevin: Yeah.

Micah: …until they released information.

Laura: Right, right. I think it’s kind of a general threat. I mean, I don’t think it’s just because there is a traitor, or it’s just because there’s a threat to the people that know. But I think it’s just kind of Dumbledore saying, “This is dangerous for you to tell. It’s dangerous for you, it’s dangerous for the people who know it, and it’s dangerous because of who could find out.” Right? Wrong?

Kevin: Yeah.

[Laura laughs]

Kevin: Well, it makes sense that he was thinking about the safety of the people who Harry was telling this information to. But you have to remember that – I mean, Voldemort knows that Harry has… It seems… It just seems as though it’s sort of – going to large lengths to get Ron or Hermione would be useless, when he could just go directly for Harry. You know what I mean?

Laura: Yeah.

Kevin: Because why would he bother infiltrating the school in that sense, if he knows that Harry has the information? It doesn’t really matter what the information is. If he can get his hands on Harry, it doesn’t…you know?

Laura: You know, though, I think it’s kind of gotten to a point where Voldemort – I mean, it’s not just about killing Harry. [laughs] I think that he enjoys torturing people.

Kevin: Yeah. Well, of course, but it just seems like it would be a bad judgment call, Voldemort-wise, to go try to…

Laura: Well, he hasn’t exactly presented the best judgment.

Kevin: True. [laughs]

[Laura laughs]

Micah: Well, the other thing that I was going to bring up, was you mentioned how Dumbledore told Harry not to tell anybody other than those two. And it’s a lot of different things; it was the Prophecy, it was also all the Horcruxes. Again, the more information that gets out, especially related to the Horcruxes – if he goes and tells the Ministry, the Ministry is going to start looking all over the place for these Horcruxes. Voldemort can easily find out about it if they, say, print it in the Daily Prophet, and then he’s running to go save all these things and make sure that there’s no possible way of them being destroyed.

Kevin: Right, but all I was saying was that I don’t think it’s – Dumbledore asked Harry not to tell anyone but Hermione and Ron because of their safety. I think he asked him just for that reason, for the fact that you don’t – the more people who know, the more likely it is that someone is going to let something slip, or someone else is going to overhear them, or…you know? It just seems as though if he was truly concerned for their safety, he would be more worried about Harry’s safety, because he’s the one who knows the information in the first place.

What If the Information Got Out?

Laura: Let’s kind of consider what would happen if it did get out.

Micah: Well I just told you, I think. [laughs]

Laura: Yeah, I know. I know. I’m saying it would be kind of a race against time, wouldn’t it?

Kevin: Yeah, it would be – I mean, Voldemort would go defensive, without doubt.

Laura: Do you think that that could play a role in Book Seven? I mean, do you think that somehow Harry could slip up?

Kevin: I’ve always thought that in Book Seven, what was going to happen, is that it was going to come down to a final conflict between Voldemort and Harry, without Voldemort knowing that Harry destroyed the Horcruxes.

Laura: Right.

Kevin: And, I mean, it is possible that Voldemort will find out that they were destroyed. But I’ve always seen it to be like – that would be the perfect ending; to see how Voldemort reacted to find out that he was facing Harry, not only on even ground, but his backup plan was foiled by Harry.

Laura: Was foiled, yeah.

Kevin: Beforehand.

Micah: What if you…

Laura: There are – sorry Micah, go ahead. [laughs]

Micah: What do you think would happen if the Daily Prophet came out with the headline, “Tom Riddle Exposed,” and they told the whole story of how Lord Voldemort was actually nothing but a mere half-blood?

[Kevin and Laura laugh]

Laura: Ummm, I think he would be kind of ticked off. [still laughs] To say the least.

Kevin: No, I…but is that really…that’s…is that really, uh…[trails off]

Micah: [laughs] No. No, it wasn’t supposed to be a serious suggestion.

Kevin: Oh, okay.

Laura: Yeah.

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: I was kind of wondering what that had to do with anything.

Kevin: Yeah, I was…

Laura: I was like, “Okay.”

Kevin: …a little thrown off by your humor there, Micah.

R.A.B. Still Alive? An Ally?

Laura: Do you think – there are a lot of people who think that there is a possibility that R.A.B. could still be alive; that he’s not actually dead. And if he is, obviously he knows about the Horcruxes. Could that be a potential…

Kevin: See…

Laura: …danger to Harry?

Kevin: No, I don’t think that would be a danger. I mean, R.A.B. obviously had a – what do you call it? Conflict of interest with Voldemort.

Laura: Yeah, but how do we know that that conflict of interest is the same conflict Harry has with him?

Kevin: Well, whether or not it is, it’s quite apparent that R.A.B. isn’t all that happy with Voldemort, and, you know – it’s not as though R.A.B. would be trying to hinder Harry, because they have the same goal. I mean, the enemy of your enemy is your friend. Or the question is: is the enemy of your enemy your friend?

Laura: I guess I just kind of see that there is the possibility that they could be in it for different reasons.

Kevin: Well, like I said, I mean, they could, maybe they have different reasons behind it, but it doesn’t change the fact that they both are not…

Laura: Want to…

Kevin: You know?

Laura: Yeah, I guess.

Micah: I’m not quite sure I understand the question about R.A.B. Do you mean if he is alive in Book Seven do you think he is going to sort of…

Laura: Yes.

Micah: …help Harry out. Or…?

Laura: Yeah. Would Harry team up with him or would he be kind of a hindrance?

Kevin: I’ve always thought that R.A.B. was going to come into play. She obviously mentioned him for a reason, and got everyone curious about it. I’ve always thought that he was going to come into play, in the sense of Harry trying to find the Horcruxes. Because he obviously had access to them, and at least had a decent idea of where a bunch of them were. So, it just seemed to me as though he’s probably not going to end up being alive, but end up being – you know, coming back in the…

Laura: So, Harry is going to have to go back and learn about R.A.B.?

Kevin: Exactly, and see…

Laura: And kind of, yeah…

Kevin: Learn about his whereabouts, because obviously he had access to the Horcruxes. So, if he had access, then what a better way to find them than back-trace the steps of R.A.B.?

Book Seven Innocent: Wormtail’s Life Debt

Laura: I think that pretty much kills the whole traitor thing, but moving on to who will be innocent in Book Seven, we know that Wormtail owes a life debt to Harry.

Kevin: Oh, I don’t think that’ll be…

Micah: It doesn’t make him innocent, though.

Kevin: Yeah.

Laura: No, but I’m not talking about literally innocent. When I say innocent, I mean…

Kevin: Will not harm Harry? [laughs]

Laura: Well, yeah. I mean, for instance, Harry believed in Order of the Phoenix that Umbridge was – he believed for a short period of time that she was working with Voldemort, because his scar hurt when he was near her.

Innocents in the Books

Micah: Right. Well, hey, Laura, I have an idea.

Laura: But she turned out to be … what?

Micah: Why don’t we go through the people [laughs] who Harry thought was…

[Kevin laughs]

Micah: … treacherous, but turned out, in fact, to be innocent in the books, so far.

Laura: Okay, Micah! Why don’t you go through those for us?

[Kevin and Laura laugh]

Micah: No, I think you’d do a far better job. You did a great job with all the traitors.

Kevin: [laughs] Oh, my god.

[Everybody laughs]

Laura: [laughs] Micah Tannenbaum hates me. Okay…

Micah: No, no. Well, yes, but…

Laura: Well, we know that, obviously… [Laura laughs] We know that in Sorcerer’s Stone, Harry definitely thought that Snape was a bad guy. I mean, there was really no doubt about it. He thought that Snape was trying to kill him. In Chamber of Secrets, he thought that Hagrid, he actually believed that Hagrid had set loose the monster that killed Moaning Myrtle. And, anyone else want to jump in here?

Micah: Sure.

[Kevin laughs]

Micah: In – obviously Prisoner of Azkaban

Kevin: As he suggests me jumping in.

Micah: [laughs] No, Prisoner of Azkaban, he definitely thought that Sirius was the one who responsible for killing his parents, and at the end he finds out that that is, in fact, not true. And then, in Goblet of Fire, Igor Karkaroff, Harry thought that he had put his name into the Goblet of Fire. Kevin, would you like to do the last two books? Well, actually Laura already touched on Order of the Phoenix.

Laura: You’re so cordial, Micah.

Kevin: Yeah, Order of the Phoenix

Micah: All you have to do is Half Blood Prince.

Kevin: Yes, okay. So, Order of the Phoenix: obviously there was Umbridge, because she was miserable to Harry. And then, of course, Half Blood Prince there was Draco. So…

Debate on Draco

Micah: Well, I don’t know. Was he proven innocent?

Laura: It’s not talking about them being innocent – completely innocent. It’s talking about things like preconceived notions that Harry had about them, that turned out to be false. He always believed Draco would probably – I always got the impression he thought Draco would grow up to be a killer and a Death Eater like his dad, but here he is; he can’t kill Dumbledore, no matter how much he hates him. He can’t do it. And think about all the Muggles that his father has tortured.

Micah: That’s true.

Laura: So, it’s not really talking about someone being innocent, it’s talking about…

Micah: But, do you think the bottom line question here…

Laura: …Harry’s thoughts about someone wrong.

Micah: …would Draco have enough hate within himself to kill Dumbledore? Even if he tried.

Laura: No.

Micah: Say he’s there…

Laura: I don’t think so.

Micah: … and he makes a conscience decision to do it? Because I think Jo proved to us, based upon that whole scene, that no matter what, Draco wasn’t going to be able to do it. But say he was of a conscience mind to be able to do it, do you think he could have filled himself with enough hate? I just don’t seem him being able to do that.

Laura: You mean, to cast the curse?

Micah: Yeah, exactly.

Laura: No, I don’t think so, either. I think that one of the only people – and this is kind of coming from the viewpoint that Draco’s going to turn out to be more of a better character than a lot of people expected him to be – I think one of the only people he could ever build up enough hatred to kill would be his father.

Kevin: Oh, yeah, but that’s…

Laura: Because…

Kevin: Oh, to kill his father.

Laura: I mean, Lucius has been awful to him. Yeah. I mean, when you think about it, who’s been the worst to him in all these books? His dad.

Micah: That’s interesting.

Laura: Do you think – is it a possibility that Draco could, say, kill Lucius?

Kevin: I don’t think he could. Well, I think it’s pretty clear that…

Laura: Yeah, I think so, too, but…

Kevin: … Draco would have difficulty killing anyone. Whether or not he – especially his own father. It’s – I don’t know. I think – I don’t know. I think it’s a long stretch, because…

Laura: Stop being wishy-washy, Kevin.

Kevin: [laughs] Well…

Laura: Be definitive.

Kevin: No. I don’t think so. I don’t think he could kill even his father. Especially his father, just because it would be killing his own family.

Back to Wormtail

Laura: I guess. Do you think that – I mean, kind of going back to Wormtail, here – and this is, again, stating that just because Wormtail completes his life debt to Harry, doesn’t make him an innocent person, but it makes him the performer of a good deed. And whether or not that is sincere…

Micah: He’s not a performer of a good deed, because of exactly what you just said. Wormtail would never be sincere in what he was doing, so I don’t necessarily know if that would allow for him to truly be performing a decent act.

Laura: So, you think that to complete a life debt, it has to be – you have to mean it?

Micah: I don’t necessarily know that. I just think he would do it because, in some way, he was obligated to do it. And he only does what, I think, he needs to do, and puts him in a better position. Obviously this is going to put him in a very conflicted position, because he’s going to have to do something against somebody he sees as having more power.

Kevin: Or, not necessarily have to do something.

Micah: He may accidentally do it.

Kevin: He could chose not. Or he could choose not to do something.

Micah: But would that…

Kevin: Which…

Micah: …mean his life, though, in this case? Because he owes Harry something.

Kevin: Yeah. He owes Harry, but I don’t think that just because he owes someone he’s going to change his nature, and his nature has always been to survive. So, he’s probably going to help Harry, but I don’t see him…

Laura: But not because he wants to.

Kevin: …sticking his neck out on a line to do it.

Laura: Right.

Kevin: You know? He may choose to, maybe, skew some information given to Voldemort, or something that will result in benefits to Harry, but I don’t see – I don’t know. He seems like – it’d be changing his nature to do that.

Micah: I don’t know.

Laura: Yeah.

Micah: I’m pretty sure – didn’t – wasn’t it Lupin or Sirius that said that it was a life debt? Because Harry chose to save his life.

Laura: Yeah, I mean, he has to do it. Doesn’t he? I mean, he doesn’t have to want to, but [laughs] I think he has to.

Kevin: Now – so you think that maybe a life debt can only be repaid by another…

Laura: Well, I mean, say if Wormtail…

Kevin: …like the saving of his life?

Laura: Well, I don’t know. It’s really…

Kevin: Because that is a common theme within…

Laura: Yeah.

Kevin: I know a lot of mythology, and stuff like that, where if you save someone’s life it’s expected that they will…

Laura: I’ve always kind of…

Kevin: …save your life in return.

Laura: Yeah. I’ve always kind of wondered, though, if maybe in Harry Potter, if a life debt, once it’s there, it just sort of happens. No one really intends for it to happen, but because it’s there…

Kevin: Oh, maybe.

Laura: …and because it must be completed, it…

Kevin: It’s sort of like…

Laura: It’s like they don’t have any control over it. Like something they do will, inevitably, repay their debt. You know what I’m saying?

Kevin: It’s possible. Yeah, I mean…

Laura: I’ve always kind of wondered if it was that way.

Kevin: I always thought of it like he would have to consciously make an effort to do so, because what is… Are you really saving – are you really paying back a debt if you don’t consciously do it?

Laura: Yeah, but what happens if you don’t pay back a life debt? I mean, it kind of goes along the same lines as an Unbreakable Vow. How long do you have to do it before something happens to you as a consequence?

Micah: I don’t know. Let’s call Jo.

Kevin: I don’t know – yeah. [laughs]

Laura: Yeah, let’s just call her up right now and ask her, “By the way, what’s the title of Book Seven?”

Micah to Jo: Update Please

Micah: Yeah, speaking of her – Jo, come on, update your site, please.

[Everybody laughs]

Micah: It’s been since October 31st. This is getting a little out of hand.

Kevin: You’re going to become the next fan site.

[Micah laughs]

Kevin: Micah doesn’t have a web page. [laughs]

Laura: I think someone should make Micah a web page.

Micah: No! I don’t think that should be included in the show either.

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: Someone should make… [trails off, laughing] Someone should make Micah a fan site. Okay, anyway.

Dark Side Assistance: Narcissa

Laura: Who – if you had to pick a couple of select characters from the “Dark Side,” who do you think would be the most likely to help Harry? Aside from Draco and Snape.

Kevin: I don’t think there’s currently a character that I would see turning good.

Laura: What do you think about Narcissa, though? What if she had to do something to save Draco?

Kevin: Oh, if it was to save Draco, sure. But, beyond that she’s an evil person, all the same. I mean, she loves her son, but that doesn’t mean that she’s not the person – the type of person who can easily kill someone.

Micah: Well…

Kevin: You know? It’s one thing when it’s family at risk, but when she’s going out and killing people, I don’t think she really feels much remorse.

Laura: Have we ever seen her kill anyone, though?

Kevin: No, but it’s sort of – I think it sort of runs in the profession, no? [laughs]

Laura: Yeah, I guess.

Kevin: She is…

Laura: I’ve just always kind of…

Kevin: Although, I guess she’s not technically a Death Eater, is she?

Laura: I don’t think she is.

Kevin: So, I don’t know. She…

Laura: Do you to pledge? [laughs] To be a Death Eater, I mean. I think that – I think she thinks Voldemort has the right idea, until it comes to the point where it’s…

Kevin: Endangering.

Laura: …kind of to the detriment of her son’s life.

Kevin: Exactly, yeah.

[Laura laughs]

Micah: Well, what do you think of her, sort of, being made an example of? Because if you look to what happened at the end of Half Blood Prince, Draco really didn’t complete his mission as Voldemort set out. Snape was the one who completed it for him, so is that going to bear a consequence?

Kevin: Yeah, but I think she – I don’t really think so. I think that Voldemort will let Draco know that he’s not satisfied, but in his own way. We can’t say what he’s going to do, but…

Laura: I think Draco would kind of be made into a joke, you know?

Kevin: Yeah, I think so, too. But, I don’t think Voldemort cares either way, because it got done.

Laura: Yeah. Dumbledore’s dead.

Kevin: So, whether it was Draco or not, I don’t think he truly cares. Why would he care? Draco is just another pawn in his…

Micah: Right.

Kevin: …chess game.

Micah: Well, I agree with you, because I think if you look at it, what happened – he sent him on an impossible mission, something that he…

Kevin: Right.

Micah: …would never have been able to accomplish against somebody like Dumbledore.

Laura: Well, the point – yeah. The point in that was that he was going to kill him if he didn’t complete it, and that was his way of punishing Lucius.

Kevin: Right.

Micah: I foresee something happening there. I think somebody in that family will be made an example of, and it will cause the others to really…

Kevin: Rebel.

Micah: …reconsider their alliance.

Kevin: Yeah, that is a pretty…

Laura: That’s interesting.

Kevin: Yeah, interesting theory.

Laura: All right, I think we pretty much discussed the death out of this, but I mean, does anyone have any last thoughts?

Micah: What about Snape?

Laura: Well…

Kevin: Oh, we’ve killed that discussion.

Laura: We’ve killed Snape. [laughs]

Kevin: Yeah.

Laura: Forget having him die in Book Seven, we did it. Geez. That’s where you’re supposed to laugh.

Kevin: [laughs unenthusiastically] Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

Laura: You remember this whole rule about, even if it’s the lamest joke ever, you’re supposed to laugh anyway?

Micah: Yeah, I don’t follow that rule.

Kevin: I ignore that rule.

Micah: Yeah.

Kevin: Yeah.

[Laura laughs]

Laura: Hey, you guys…

Kevin: Does not apply to us.

Laura: Alright, well, I think that pretty much wraps things up, so we’re going to [laughs]

Kevin: Head out?

Laura: We’re going to transition [still laughs]

Kevin: Yes, transition to…

Laura: Transition back into…

Kevin: So… So yeah, what’s happening is Jamie is coughing up that nut that he choked on.

[Micah laughs]

Kevin: Andrew’s laptop suddenly decided to reboot and is now stable.

Micah: And what about me?

Kevin: And, Micah, your computer’s going to have a problem. I foresee your computer…

[Micah laughs]

Laura: No, that’s old, that’s old.

Micah: Yeah, you’ve got to come up with something more…

Kevin: Yeah, that’s true. A pick up truck is going to go through the front of your house.

[Micah and Laura laugh]

Dumbledore/Norris Facts

Andrew: [laughs] Okay, thank you, Micah, Laura and Kevin. Jamie, can you please grace us with some Dumbledore and Chuck Norris quotes?

Jamie: Yeah. I only have a few.

Andrew: That’s fine

Jamie: Okay, “Dumbledore puts the laughter in slaughter.”

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Andrew: What? Makes sense.

Laura: No, have you ever seen that shirt? It says, “You can’t have manslaughter without laughter?” [laughs]

Kevin: Oh yeah that’s a t-shirt Hell shirt.

[Andrew laughs]

Jamie: “They made a Dumbledore flavored Bertie Bott’s Every Flavor Bean so that people could taste power.”

[Andrew and Kevin laugh]

Andrew: I got it.

Jamie: Hey, I mean this week they aren’t really Harry Potter driven, they’re just, you know, awesome. You know, expressing his awesomeness. “Dumbledore is not politically correct, he is just correct. Always.”

[Andrew laughs]

Jamie: It’s true.

Andrew: He’s Dumbledore correct.

Jamie: Yeah. “Dumbledore’s I.Q. can be expressed simply as a sideways eight.”

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: For you mathematicians out there.

Andrew: What? What does that mean?

Kevin: Infinity.

Jamie: Infinity.

Andrew: Oh, does it?

Kevin: Oh…

Jamie: Which reminds me…

Kevin: You didn’t know what that meant?

Andrew: No, sorry I’m not in…

Kevin: Oh boy.

Andrew: I’m not in – what class are you taking right now?

Laura: You don’t need to be in that class.

Kevin: Oh, I’m done with differentials.

Andrew: Yeah, differential equations, sorry.

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: Okay, I’m done. I don’t really have anymore.

Andrew: That’s it?

Jamie: Yeah I’ll get some more for next week

Andrew: Alright.

Jamie: Kevin, I have a joke for you. Tell me if you get it. Okay, there are two cats on a roof, which one falls off first? The one with the lowest mew.

Kevin: [laughs] I get it.

Jamie: I thought that was funny.

Andrew: Okay, I guess math…

Jamie: No.

Kevin: It’s actually physics.

Jamie: It’s a…

Andrew: Oh.

Jamie: What is it? Coefficient Diffraction?

Kevin: Physics – yes.

Jamie: [laughs] Nice one.

Andrew: Wow. Wow, nice.

Kevin: Andrew doesn’t get it. He doesn’t…

Andrew: No.

Kevin: You will get it though, Andrew. You will get it.

Jamie: I didn’t get it either…don‘t worry.

Andrew: I want to try and think up my own Dumbledore/Norris joke.

Jamie: I have to e-mail that guy who did the ones last week because they were awesome. Because he…

Andrew: That’s going to make him to write some more.

Jamie: Exactly. I’m going to ask him to write some more up. They were pretty good.

Andrew: :Dumbledore doesn’t use cell phones, he uses…”

Jamie: No, no. “Cell phones use Dumbledore.” [laughs]

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]

[Laura and Kevin laugh]

Andrew: Well you can that, “Dumbledore doesn’t use the Easy Button, the Easy Button uses Dumbledore.” [Pushes Easy Button; “That was easy”] It’s getting slower by the press, I swear.

Jamie: That’s awesome.

Andrew: Oh, I got one. [laughs] “Dumbledore doesn’t fire Trump, Trump fires Dumbledore.” [Presses “You’re Fired!” button]

[Jamie laughs]

Andrew: That’s not even a Dumbledore joke, that’s a Trump joke.

Jamie: That’s a Trump joke, yeah.

Andrew: Yeah. I just used it because I have a Trump sound effect.

Jamie: That was easy

Andrew: That was easy.

Listener Rebuttals – Robin’s Challenge

Andrew: We have two other e-mails now and then we’ll wrap up the show. Donna, 51, of Sacramento, California writes,

“I am proud to say I am a listener and a big Harry Potter fan. I turned 51 on Thanksgiving and I am sure I am not even close to the oldest fan. I have a retired friend who took the first Harry Potter book on vacation. She ended up buying more HP books and spent most of her vacation reading! Go, Jo!”

This is in response to Robin’s challenge.

Jamie: I also have one from Robin’s challenge. After you’ve…

Andrew: Do you?

Jamie: Yeah, after you’ve done the next one.

Andrew: All right, we have one more from Anna, 35, of South Florida who writes:

“Hi! Since Thanksgiving I’ve been a little behind listening to the podcast, so I’m just listening to number 65. On it you have a lady asking ‘mature’ listeners and Harry Potter fans to show themselves, so here it is. I don’t know about mature, but I am 35 and a huge Harry Potter fan. I don’t have kids yet, so it’s all me. No excuses why I am a fan, I just love the books and movies. My husband, 39, is also a fan, but I’m definitely the more committed and obsessed of the two. Keep up the good work! Love listening to you guys and long live Harry Potter fans!”

Jamie: Awww, that’s nice.

Andrew: [finished email] “From, Anna.” Thank you Anna and Donna.

Jamie: And I’ve got one from Lee, who is 32 from West Yorkfordshire, England. He writes:

“Hi Jamie. After listening to Robin, coming out of the closet on Episode 65 I’ve decided to do the same. I am ‘only’ 32 but I have only been a MuggleCast lurker since episode 15. I have to say I agree 100% with Robin about you guys. Your professionalism, your production quality and your passion for what you do is amazing and completely beyond almost anything else in the podcast land. Oh, yes. It is a real place. Thank-you very much. On a side note I used to make TV programs for ITV and the BBC.”

Andrew: Wow.

Jamie: [continues reading] “Those are two television programs out here in case people didn’t know, and I really reckon that you guys would the put the current crop of big producers to shame.” And he attaches an awesome photo of himself wearing his MuggleCast t-shirt in front of Alnwick Castle.”

Is that how you pronounce it? I can’t remember – Alnwick Castle which is where they filmed a great deal of Harry Potter scenes. Especially…

Andrew: Right, right.

Jamie: …the bigger Hogwarts scenes. Also, I have to thank Lee for this week’s joke which will be coming up soon.

Andrew: I really appreciate e-mails like that.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: Where people compliment us on professionalism and stuff like that.

Laura: Mhm.

Andrew: It’s like, you know.

Kevin: You have no idea.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: I mean I’m sure the edited show comes off very professional than it sounds when it’s recorded. [laughs]

Jamie: I hope it sadly does.

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah. It certainly does.

Jamie’s British Joke of the Day

Andrew: Yeah. All right. Okay Jamie, you want to go ahead with that joke now?

Jamie: Okay, okay. This is a bit political – well it’s not political but, yeah. By telling this joke we aren’t claiming to be any political affiliation. It’s just, take it for what you will, basically.

Before the 2001 inauguration of George Bush, he was invited to a “get acquainted” tour of the White House. After drinking several glasses of iced tea he asked Bill Clinton if he could his personal bathroom. When he entered Clinton’s private toilet he was astonished to see that President Clinton had a solid gold urinal. That afternoon George told his wife Laura about the urinal. “Just think,” he said. “When I’m President I can get a gold urinal too, but I wouldn’t do anything that self indulgent.” Later when Laura had lunch with Hilary after the tour of the White House, she told Hilary how impressed George had been at the discovery of the fact that in the President’s private bathroom; the President had a gold urinal. That evening when Bill and Hilary were getting ready for bed, Hilary smiled and said to Bill, “I found out who peed in your saxophone.” [laughs]

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Oh, geez. Good stuff. Good stuff.

Jamie: Thank you, Lee.

McDonald’s Contest Winner

Andrew: And lastly this week, I have an update on our Listener Challenge – the McDonald’s Listener Challenge – I have the winner of the MuggleCast at McDonald’s month promotion on the show.

[Jamie makes trumpet sound]

The winner is…drum roll please…

[Jamie makes trumpet sound]

Andrew: Dani, 18, of South Hadley, Massachusetts won the challenge, so congrats to her. She took a few pictures at different McDonald’s locations, I guess in her area, and one of them really got me. It’s the entire McDonald’s staff behind the counter holding the MuggleCast sign.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: And it just amuses me so much because all of McDonald’s stopped for that picture. [laughs] So, thanks to her for that.

Jamie: The economy came to a halt for that photo.

Andrew: Yeah, McDonald’s lost like…

Jamie: Four billion.

Andrew: $50 on it. [laughs]

Show Close

Andrew: So, that does wrap up MuggleCast 67. As a side note, our holiday edition and our New Year’s edition episodes are coming up. We have some good stuff planned for them, of course. Of course, Episode 70 is going to be the variety show. We’re also – I think, guys – we’re going to be doing a year end review like we did last year. I think that might be a good idea.

Laura: Yeah, absolutely.

Kevin: Yeah, that sounds good.

Andrew: All right. So, we’ll do that. Christmas show, I’m sure we’ll be doing something special like we did last year. So, definitely look forward to those. If you would like to contact us you could always visit where there’s a handy feedback forum that contacts any of us. You can also send stuff to the P.O. Box. It’s Christmas time. [in a nerdy voice] Send your cookies!

Laura: So that Ben cannot send anything.

Jamie: I know, I know, I know, I know, I know. Andrew, it is PO Box 223, Moundridge, California W95…

Kevin: Kansas?

Jamie: Actually, I don’t know the rest of it. I don’t know the rest of it. Moundridge, Kansas. California.

Andrew: [laughs] I actually thought you might actually have it. You got it pretty much.

PO Box 223

Moundridge, KS 67107

Jamie: Oh, did I say California?

Laura: [laughs] Yeah.

Kevin: Yes, you did. [laughs]

Jamie: Sorry.

Andrew: Thought you did that as a joke.

Jamie: No, no.

Kevin: I thought so too.

Jamie: I mean, yes, I did.

[Show music plays in background]

Andrew: If you’re in the United States – you know, we’re going to have a contest one day where the winner will receive Jamie’s map of the United States.

Laura: Yeah, that’s a good idea.

[Jamie laughs]

Andrew: I’m debating whether it’s going to be that, or we’re going to print that on a t-shirt, ’cause we can get away with that. No one can stop us from selling that. [laughs]

[Kevin laughs]

Andrew: [laughs] So, if you’re in the United States you can always call 1-218-20-MAGIC, that’s 6-2-4-4-2. If you’re in the United Kingdom you can dial 020-8144-0677. If you’re in Australia you can dial 02-8003-5668. Any of those numbers you can leave us a voicemail on. You can also Skype the username MuggleCast to leave a voicemail, just try to keep your message about 30 seconds and try to eliminate as much background noise as possible. And also, one last plug, don’t forget all of our community outlets: MySpace, Facebook, YouTube, Frappr, Last.FM, Fanlisting Forums. The song I did last week.

Jamie: Very nice.

Andrew: [laughs] And that’s going to be my next single, actually. And please be our MySpace friend. We almost have 4,000 friends on MySpace, and probably by the time this episode is out we’ll have four thousand friends.

Jamie: Four million.

Andrew: Yeah, our goal is a million.

Jamie: I’m so sore.

Andrew: We have about six and half million listeners, so that’s one in every six.

Jamie: One in every six. That’s okay. We can do that.

Andrew: It’s not bad. It’s okay.

Jamie: It’s average.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah. Once again I’m Andrew Sims.

Jamie: I’m Jamie Lawrence.

Kevin: I’m Kevin Steck.

Laura: I’m Laura Thompson. I figured you two were going to fight over it.

Andrew: Nope, that’s it. [laughs]

Kevin: No, I was waiting for him because I wasn’t even going to bother.

Andrew: We’ll see everyone next week for Episode 68. Bye bye!

Jamie: Bye!

Laura: Bye!

Kevin: Bye!

[Show music ends]

Andrew: This podcast is brought to you by Buena Vista Home Entertainment’s release of Step Up. When Tyler Gage, a rough and street-wise hunk with raw talent finds himself doing community service at a school for the performing arts, he also finds Nora, a beautiful and privileged, classically trained dancer who’s searching for a new partner. Spying on Tyler’s smooth moves, Nora decides to take a chance on him. But as they begin training, tensions build, tempers flair, and the differences in their backgrounds explode. On DVD December 19th. Rated PG-13.


Laura: Is everyone going?

Kevin: Yes.

Micah: Yep.

Laura: Mic check.

Kevin: I have to go, guys.

[Micah laughs]

Laura: What?! No. [laughs] No, no, no.

[Kevin laughs]

Micah: Oh, you’re so funny.

Laura: No, no, no. You already had your academic emergency.

Micah: You had your Frodo time.

[Laura laughs]

Kevin: Them deleting my classes was not nice.

Laura: No, it wasn’t.

Micah: What did you call it? An academic emergency?

Laura: Emergency.

Kevin: No, I said emergency, and because I was somewhat rushed and panicking. What?

[Phone rings]

Laura: Phone. Sorry.

Kevin: Was that your phone or my phone?

Laura: That was mine.

Kevin: Oh, okay. I have two new voice messages, is that you?

Laura: Yeah. Being like “Kevin, are you dead?” Sorry.

Kevin: You wish.

Laura: Anyway…

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: It would have been kind of hard to do this tonight if you were, so not really. All right, are we ready?

Micah: Yeah.

Kevin: Yeah, we’re recording aren’t we? [laughs]

Laura: You know what I mean!

Kevin: Let’s see how many times can we say “are we ready?” One, two?

Laura: Well, okay – because I’ve had to sit here and prod you off of watching Frodo even though you own it and then we can’t get started. [laughs] All right.

Kevin: This is really tough, to just start out in the middle of nowhere.

Laura: It is! It’s so hard. Andrew, this is so hard. Don’t do this to me again. This sucks. Anyway.

Micah: You know he’s going to stick that at the end of the show.

Kevin: He should steal wireless, seriously!

Laura: I really don’t care. I don’t care. Well, his family is having a Christmas party or something.

Kevin: Yeah, Christmas party on December 9th. That makes a lot of sense.

Laura: Hey, you said it, not me.

Micah: So, Laura.

Kevin: Yes.

Laura: So, what? [laughs] I was waiting – never mind.

Micah: For what?

Kevin: Maybe we should give some explanation to why we just broke into three.

Laura: Yeah. Now, what did you say happened to Jamie?

Kevin: Jamie choked on a nut and went to the hospital.

[Micah laughs]

Kevin: And Andrew’s laptop crashed.

Laura: Because Kevin killed it.

Kevin: So, because his laptop is an Apple laptop – they’re just completely unreliable. You can’t count on them for anything.

Laura: By “crashed” Kevin means that he went up there and dropped it off a cliff. That’s what he means.

Kevin: So, basically it’s left to us to come up with our main discussion of this week.

Laura: Well, apparently Ben doesn’t know how to hit “record” either. [laughs]

Kevin: Yes, but Ben is in Chicago.

Laura: Yeah, Ben is in Chicago, Jamie is sleeping. I don’t know what everyone else is doing.

Kevin: And Andrew is at a Christmas party that doesn’t exist.

Laura: Yep. [Laura laughs]


Written by: Micah, Adrienne, Allison, Amanda, Eloise, Jessica, Judy, Mandie, Margaret, Martina, Matt, Megan, Samantha, Shannon and Shelly

Transcript 066

MuggleCast 66 Transcript

Show Intro

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[Intro music plays]

Andrew: Because if I weren’t listening to MuggleCast, I’d actually be
getting paid to do my job. Thank you, Melissa Reid, 26, of Moore, Oklahoma.
This is MuggleCast Episode 66, for December 3rd, 2006.

[Music continues to play]

Andrew: Guys, girls, and Micah, I am absolutely infuriated…

Kevin: Are you?

Andrew: …this week.

Laura: And why is that?

Andrew: Yes.

Micah: Why?

Andrew: I can’t even talk about it.

Kevin: You’re so angry?

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: WB is cheap. That is my – that is what I’m saying. I think WB is cheap. Anyone else agree?

Eric: Well, we already knew that, Andrew.

Kevin: I agree, definitely.

Eric: We already…

Andrew: Laura, you agree?

Eric: I don’t know.

Laura: I would say regarding some evidence that we’ve been sent, that, yeah.

Kevin: I think they’re trying to pull a fast one.

Eric: I don’t think WB’s cheap, it’s just that WB is a corporation, and
that’s what some of you have been saying. They do as corporations do; they
recycle footage. Say, if it were movie – Goblet of Fire movie footage
in an Order of the Phoenix trailer, they can do that. They do that.

Andrew: Way to spoil it for everyone, Eric.

Eric: Oh.

Andrew: Everyone was going to have to wait until after the news.

Eric: Darn.

Andrew: Teaser is no longer a teaser.

Eric. Oh no. Okay.

Andrew: I’m infuriated, I can’t go on. I quit my wizard rock band, I quit
the pickles catch phrase. I’m done.

[Eric laughs]

Eric: The pickles catch phrase, not the pickles catch phrase, Andrew.

Andrew: All right, I like doing that, I admit that. Pickle, pickle, pickle,

Eric: Okay.

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: …pickle, pickle, pickle.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: That made it into the Caption Contest this week, Andrew.

Andrew: I am Andrew Sims. Oh, I’m very glad.

Kevin: I am Kevin Steck.

Eric: I am Eric Scull.

Laura: I’m Laura Thompson.

Micah: And I’m Micah Tannenbaum.

[Music continues to play]


Micah: Throughout this weekend’s presentation of Harry Potter Weekend on ABC
Family, new previews of Order of the Phoenix have been airing.
Fourteen high-quality clips can be seen on, as well
as descriptions of each video. The clips feature interviews with the cast as
well as some amazing new shots from the film. Don’t forget to check out the
world premiere of the extended version of Harry Potter and the Prisoner of
tonight at 8 p.m. on ABC Family.

Jason Isaacs and his character Lucius Malfoy have made The San Francisco
‘s list of the Sexiest Men Never Alive. This is Lucius’ second
honor recently as he was also on the Forbes list of richest fictional

And for the first time in five years, JK Rowling has won a literary prize in
her own country. In a poll of 3,000 schoolchildren, aged 8 to 12, Half-Blood
was voted the best Scottish children’s book. Jo was unable to attend
the awards ceremony, but did pass along a message, containing news of
progress on the seventh Harry Potter book.

Warner Bros. has tentatively announced that starting in 2007, fans will be
able to not only legally download movies but also burn them to DVD from the
Internet the same day they become available in stores. This will include the
Harry Potter films as well, so fans can look forward to watching Order of
the Phoenix
on their computers.

Information about the Australian version of the Order of the Phoenix trailer
has been released by the government’s Office of Film and Literature
Classification. They list the trailer as being two minutes long – which is
longer than the American version – and the international trailer should be
released within the next month.

Finally, Forbes released an article this week about the controversial
burning of the Harry Potter books. The series has often been the target of
many Christian fundamentalists who claim that “Rowling has a world
platform.” Over the past five years, half a dozen book burnings have been
planned, their organizers claiming that the books, as well as Potter fan
sites, promote witchcraft. Ray Bradbury, author of Fahrenheit 451, defended
the books, saying, “There’s nothing wrong with the Potter books, because
they’re not promoting witchcraft. They’re promoting being wise.” That’s
right, you tell them, Ray!

That’s all the news for this December 3rd, 2006 edition of MuggleCast. Back
to the show.

Andrew: All right, well, thank you Micah.

Micah: [pauses then laughs] I was trying to think of something creative to say
and it just didn’t happen.

Andrew: Leave the creativity up to me, please. Thank you.

Eric: What’s this conspiracy now?

Goblet of Fire in Order of the Phoenix Trailer

Andrew: Ummm, well, Micah, would you like to explain to everyone what we’re all
upset about?

Micah: Sure.

Eric: Yeah, Micah, what’s bugging you?

Micah: Well, actually thanks to Valerie, 16, of Colorado because she did a
really good thing. She sent us in an e-mail, here, after I mentioned on last
week’s show that when I paused the trailer, I think it was around 28
seconds, there’s this weird woman’s face in the bottom right-hand corner,
but that wasn’t really the only thing. We found out that that was Bellatrix.

Andrew: Great, wonderful.

Micah: However, the clip is from Goblet of Fire and it’s in the
Order of the Phoenix trailer.

Andrew: What?

Micah: What’s up with that?

Andrew: What?

Eric: What?

Andrew: No wonder it made me want to go see Goblet of Fire

[Eric and Micah laugh]

Eric: Wait a minute now, now… [Laughs]

Laura: You’re on notice, WB, I’m telling you.

Eric: Let’s clarify. Bellatrix, the whole Bellatrix face thing and all that,
that is not in Goblet of Fire, but the scene that it’s overlaying,
the scene that that whole woman’s face is overlaying is actually part of
the graveyard scene in Goblet of Fire, showing Voldemort apparently
casting a spell. But you can clearly make out in the right-hand side the
statue – the gravestone of the graveyard of Goblet of Fire.

Andrew: Well, not just that, you see Voldemort and he’s in the exact same

Eric: Oh yeah.

Andrew: Same exact face, same exact background, everything’s the same.

Eric: Same exact clothing, I mean, who doesn’t change their clothes? Yuck

Andrew: It is extremely amusing that that – they took a clip from Goblet
of Fire
to insert into the Order of the Phoenix teaser trailer,
but this just answers the fact that none of the special effects are done

Eric: Well…

Andrew: So, they have to take from what is done. And what’s done? Goblet
of Fire
. That’s it. [laughs]

Eric: I don’t think that Goblet of Fire is done, I think they’re going
to come out with an extended edition.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: I heard WB was in talks with George Lucas. Now, Kevin Steck, now that
we’ve uncovered the dilemma, Andrew has one theory, what do you think is
going on with this whole footage reuses…

Micah: Fiasco.

Eric: The fiasco, this recycling fiasco.

Kevin: They needed filler.

Eric: They needed filler? I agree with that

Kevin: Totally needed filler.

Eric: I don’t necessarily, I don’t necessarily believe that not – like, no
effects are done, but I think simply that Warner Brothers was not ready to
show us the new Voldemort. So, in order to…

Micah: They needed 50…

Laura: Well…

Micah: Sorry, they needed filler for the 50 seconds.

Laura: …they’ve released like posters already…

Micah: I mean, come on.

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: That’s ridiculous.

Andrew: Just cut the trailer down to 45 seconds, then you won’t have to add

Eric: It actually is 47, some of them were 47 and incorrectly labeled as 57.

Kevin: And it is labeled a teaser.

Laura: It’s not exactly a teaser.

Andrew: It’s weird. I got a weird desire to watch the Goblet of Fire
film right after that.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Now you know why.

Andrew: Now I know why.

Eric: Because it’s…

Kevin: Subliminal.

Andrew: I saw that, yeah.

Eric: So…

Andrew: There was also – I also had a weird desire to drink Coke right after
I saw that. Anyone else feel that too?

Eric: That’s because of that voice. If you turn your speakers up loud enough, you can actually make out, it says, “Drink more Pepsi.”

Andrew: Oh. [laughs]

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: That would not explain why I wanted to drink Coke.

Laura: Yeah,

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: No, no, no. But the Coke one is on a higher frequency, Kevin can explain it.

Kevin: No, you have to play it in reverse.

Eric: Oh…

Andrew: Well, we’re getting too nerdy here.

Eric: Pepsi backwards is Coke.

Andrew: Let’s get back on track. This is pretty amusing, and what’s even more amusing is that nobody picked up on this until a couple of the MuggleCast listeners did. So…

Eric: Yeah, so…

Andrew: Good work!

Eric: …this new Order of the Phoenix teaser actually has some Goblet footage forwarded.

Andrew: Now, with that said, Harry does revisit the graveyard in his dreams in the opening chapter of Order of the Phoenix, but this still does not really explain why they would reuse a clip from Goblet of Fire.

Eric: I don’t think it’s necessarily a travesty. I mean, we all knew that the opening part of the…

Micah: It’s cheap.

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: …trailer. Well, it’s kind of cheap.

Andrew: I wouldn’t say it’s cheap [Laughs] I mean.

Eric: Well, the opening part of the trailer is from Chamber of Secrets, you know, when the…

Andrew: No, no, wait a minute, hold up for a second…

Eric: When the Warner Brothers thing came up, that is so from Chamber of Secrets.

Andrew: There is no proof that that is a direct copy.

Eric: It is a direct copy.

Andrew: It’s not like they open up their video editor and they took the little clip they opened up the Chamber of Secrets file from the WB archives…

Eric: They did.

Andrew: …copied and pasted. I don’t believe that.

Laura: And the Chamber of Secrets one, it wasn’t even nighttime when it started, it was evening. So…

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: It’s not nighttime in this trailer.

Laura: Yeah, it is.

Eric: What low quality version are you watching?

Laura: No, okay, whenever…

Eric: It’s a – the sky is pink and blue.

Laura: No, it’s not.

Eric: The sky is Easter-colored, just like in Chamber of Secrets.

Laura: …Whenever they go through the clouds, it’s nighttime.

Eric: It’s not nighttime.

Andrew: It is pink above – anyway, we don’t need to debate. That’s just silly.

Eric: Okay.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Well, they ripped off Chamber of Secrets – no, well, put it this way. What was it? One of the trailers used the scene where Harry finds out that, “You’re a wizard, Harry,” when it shows him in Ollivander’s. I thought another trailer like Chamber of Secrets or something did that.

Laura: Yeah, but that was a little different because it was the second year and they were kind of doing a recap.

Eric: A recap. Well, what’s to say they can’t do…

Laura: This is not a recap. This is… It almost…

Kevin: Filler.

Eric: This is making you think you see something new when you don’t?

Laura: Yeah.

Kevin: Exactly.

Andrew: It would make sense like if it said…

Kevin: If it had some dialogue.

Andrew: If Sirius was like – yeah.

Eric: “Fourteen years ago, Voldemort…”

Andrew: “Last year…”

Laura: Yeah, exactly…

Andrew: “Voldemort cast a spell on Harry,” and the other thing is that it’s only fifteen frames. I mean, so, you know, we’re not going to sit here and criticize WB. I was kidding when I said that – we were kidding when we say WB is cheap.

Eric: Yeah, absolutely kidding.

Andrew: What was I going to say?

Micah: Notice how I didn’t say anything.

Laura: Yeah.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Dobby in Goblet of Fire

Andrew: This reminds me of, I guess it was about a year ago, when someone found out, and I think they actually e-mailed this to MuggleNet, that Dobby was in Goblet of Fire for, like, half a second. When they were…

Kevin: Oh, I remember that…

Andrew: …he and another house-elf, yeah, were riding on the backs of camels. And….

Eric: [laughs] What?! [laughs again]

Andrew: They were all excited. Yeah, you didn’t see it?

Eric: Camels.

Micah: Yeah

Kevin: Yeah, it was…

Andrew: It was during the Tri-Wizard Tournament.

Kevin: …a really big deal. Like, everyone got…

Andrew: Yeah, like everyone was all excited. It was like, “Oh my God, Dobby is back!”

Eric: What, are you serious?

Micah: And you spent so much time. I remember that. You spent so much time putting that clip together and then somehow, it got taken down.

Andrew: Yeah, the post got deleted. Yeah, because that was when our news was just funky. But, yeah, so it got – someone caught it, but this was like, a few months after the film was released, so, in a way, this doesn’t surprise me [laughs] that nobody caught this because not everybody is going frame by frame and analyzing all of this.

Eric: Wait, so he was actually in the movie?

Andrew: Yeah, Dobby, he’s in there for, like, two seconds…

Eric: Oh my gosh.

Andrew: It goes by. The camera is going one way and the camels are going the other way

Eric: That’s like, in Star Wars, the aliens from E.T. are in the Senate. It’s kind of funny.

Kevin: Yeah, they do that as, like, “Easter Eggs.”

Eric: “Easter Eggs,” yeah. Different things like that. I don’t know

Andrew: That’s the big revelation of the week.

Eric: But didn’t that guy say that it cost, like, $150,000 every time Dobby sets foot on stage?

Kevin: Yeah, but…

Andrew: We talked about that on last week’s show.

Kevin: Yeah, he meant close-ups thought.

Eric: That camel back thing was just…

Kevin: This was so brief that it probably cost them no time at all.

Eric: At least a hundred grand?

Kevin: And it wasn’t in the fore- you know…

Eric: At least five grand, whatever

Kevin: …It was in the background, so.


Andrew: You know what’s not going to cost $10,000 every second?

Micah: But make you feel like a hundred thousand bucks.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Oh, Micah. Oh, that was perfect.

Eric: That was great.

Andrew: Your very own MuggleCast t-shirt. On sale now, only for a limited time.

Eric: And we actually mean that. It’s not like the Disney Vault.

Andrew: As we’ve said multiple times now, MuggleCast T-Shirts are going out of sale starting December 31st, so pick up yours today. Many are being purchased. I bought four of my own, as I mentioned, because I am stocking up. I hope everyone else is stocking up. It’s like squirrels in the wintertime; right before winter, what do they do?

Laura: Except winter is not going to end in this case.

Eric: They freeze to death? [laughs]

Andrew: Well, they freeze to death, but they stock up on nuts. Squirrels stock up on nuts so – when they go in to hibernate. This is, like, you’re hibernating.

Kevin: Oh, okay. So you want people to wear multiple layers of MuggleNet t-shirts – MuggleCast t-shirts so they are warm for the winter, right?

Andrew: Yes, they are being purchased by squirrels. There was one addressed to “My house, but the tree in the backyard.”

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: So I didn’t understand that, but I guess it was a squirrel.

Kevin: That’s cute, Andrew.

Andrew: Yeah, but, [laughs] moving along. Don’t forget it’s a new month, so vote for us on Podcast Alley for the month of December. We need your vote to help kick out Keith and the Girl from the number one spot

[Eric laughs].

Andrew: I like messing with them so that their fans come after us, although their fans haven’t yet, but now that I’ve challenged them…

Eric: Oh, it’s on, baby, its on.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: They can’t beat us.

Eric: I feel bad for the girl.

[Kevin laughs]

Eric: She doesn’t even get named on the podcast and now her fans are being stolen.

Andrew: I just like the sell of it all. Keith and the Girl. Who’s the girl? I don’t know.

Now here’s an announcement that we’re going to have to wing this week because Ben and Jamie are not here. Little update on them, Jamie – it’s past his bedtime. We’re recording past his bedtime. Despite the fact he’s on AIM.

[Andrew, Eric and Laura laugh]

Andrew: And Ben is at a – some knowledge bowl? Or something intelligent…

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: …that I would never be invited to, but they would like us to remind you that MuggleNet’s What Will Happen in Harry Potter 7: Who Lives, Who Dies, and Who Falls in Love and How the Adventure Finally Ends is now on your local bookstore shelf pr bookshelf.

Kevin: Or you can message me and I can give you the PDF version.

Andrew: Oooh.

Kevin: Yeah.

Andrew: I’m messaging you right now.

[Andrew and Kevin laughs]

Eric: Kevin, what’s…

Andrew: You’re going to distribute that…

Kevin: Yeah.

Andrew: …on all the websites, aren’t you? I figured you would.

Eric: “Author: Kevin Steck.” [laughs]

Kevin: Yeah, cut their profits in two.

Andrew: The book is written by Emerson, Ben, Jamie, Andy G, and Gretchen, who works on the Encyclopedia.

Kevin: But we don’t talk about Gretchen.

Andrew: Yeah, and I have actually a confession to make. I am actually not Andy G. I know I’ve been saying that’s my penname for a while, but the reason I’m revealing it this week is because…

Eric: Andy G. threatened to sue you.

Andrew: Well, that. That’s true.

[Kevin laughs]

Andrew: And Ben and Jamie aren’t here this week so I can actually announce something that I don’t want them finding out about. I am actually working on a sequel to this book.

[Eric laughs]

Eric: What Might Happen Later than Harry Potter 7?

Andrew: Well, I’m glad you asked for the title. It’s actually going to be called’s What Will Happen in Harry Potter 7[laughs] Hold on a second.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: It’s actually called…

Eric: “Who comes back to life…”

Andrew: No. [laughs]

[Laura laughs]

Eric: “Who might not have died to begin with…”

Andrew: No.

Eric: “…and which relationships last?”

Andrew: It’s actually called’s [laughs] What

Eric: That was good.

Andrew:Will Happen In Harry Potter 7: Who Lives, Who Dies, Who Falls in Love and How Harry Will Finally Discover the Internet and I have struck up a few theories and I think it’s going to be a big-selling book.

Eric: Or you could just contribute to MuggleNet’s editorials, you know? I’m sure they’d love to have you.

Andrew: No, I want to be a published author.

Eric: Oh, okay.

Andrew: And I don’t want to pretend like Andy G is my penname.

Eric: That’s what it’s all about.

Andrew: So, it’s a sequel and I ask that nobody tells Jamie and Ben about this via e-mail, so please keep this a secret from them and it’ll be in bookshelves, I guess, a few months from now.

Micah: That’s fine, because neither of them actually listen to the show, so you’re safe.

Andrew: If anyone wants to help me write it, just let me know. A co-host.

Micah: Sure.

Eric: Yeah, I’ll write something.

Andrew: Anyone?

Eric: Sure.

Andrew: Okay. All right. All right, cool.

Eric: It’ll be the other half of MuggleCast that didn’t get on the first time.

Andrew: All right, I will talk to you about that later. And we’d also like to remind everyone, MuggleCast Episode 70 – 70 is going to be our variety show that is made up of your segments and your filks, whatever you want. Just send them in to mugglecast at staff dot mugglenet dot com. We’re looking, of course, for stuff like MuggleCast remixes, stuff like that. We’ve been getting a few submissions and they’re all pretty entertaining, and we want to share them with the rest of you. And that is also going to be our New Year’s show, when we won’t be around to record our regular show.

Andrew’s Wizard Rock Band

Andrew: Now, the real reason everyone is looking forward to MuggleCast 70, because – is because that is when I will premiere my first Wizard Rock single.

Eric: I’m so excited.

Andrew: It’s nameless for now. I’m still working on a name.

Eric: Awww.

Andrew: Actually, I have a little update. Anyone care to hear this?

Eric: Not really, but go ahead.

Laura: Go right on ahead. [laughs]

Andrew: All right, it’s just a little update. It’s not like it’s going to take up your time.

Eric: Too late.

Andrew: I’ve got to admit, I’m – I’ve got to be honest, I actually hit a little writer’s block. I know this happens to JK Rowling, it’s happening to me now.

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Andrew: Now I know how she feels. Yeah, the first – the first night that I came up with the idea to write this, I was throwing out lyrics left and right, I had it all down. And now I’m having a hard time coming up with new lyrics, but I think I’ll have that done within the next few weeks. And right now, I’m actually looking for – I’m looking for venues to start playing some live gigs. And Micah, you live up in the New York City area. I’m thinking Madison Square Garden?

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: Do you think that would hold our…

Micah: You’ve heard of that place?

Andrew: …listening audience? Yeah.

Kevin: I…

Andrew: Now, how many seats does that place have?

[Laura laughs]

Kevin: I was thinking more the Port Authority.

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: No, I’m actually…

Eric: Can you imagine…

Micah: Yeah, you can open your guitar case and people walk by and throw you some spare change.

Andrew: I’m serious about this. Micah, how many seats does…

Micah: Wow, I’m going to get…

Andrew: …Madison Square Garden have? Just ballpark.

Micah: I want to say probably 20-25,000.

Andrew: All right, that is going to be a problem…

Micah: It’s a very small venue.

Andrew: …because we have about two million listeners.

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: This is going to be an issue. We’re going to have to look into a bigger place.

Laura: They just have to stand, you know, outside.

Andrew: Ah, good point.

Laura: You know, way, way back. You can put up big screens.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: Yeah, you know what they can do? There’s a TV above Penn Station.

Laura: Yes.

Micah: They can broadcast you live up there.

Laura: There you go.

Andrew: Oooh, okay.

Eric: Can you imagine the mosh pit? For Andrew?

Andrew: I don’t think Penn Station can hold the amount of listeners we have either.

Micah: No, but they’ll be outside and they can watch you on the TV on top.

Andrew: But we have – all right, all right.

Eric: Andrew, trust me.

Andrew: All right, I think we can do that.

Eric: If they show up to do the New Year’s with, you know, Dick Clark, I’m pretty sure that they…

Andrew: [sighs] All right, okay. I’m just – you know, we have a big audience. I just don’t want to, you know, leave anyone out.

Micah: Here, I found it. It holds 18 for hockey and 19 for basketball. So…

Andrew: That is – that is actually really small. [laughs]

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: Wow. Hmmm. Okay, we’re going to have to find somewhere…

Micah: You need a bigger venue.

Andrew: Yeah, we’re going to have to find somewhere else.

Micah: How about the Meadowlands – in Giants Stadium?

Kevin: Oh, yeah.

Micah: There you go.

Kevin: There you go.

Andrew: I like that.

Micah: Now you’re talking like…

Andrew: Good thinking, Micah.

Micah: …like 75,000 thousand, at least.

Enlightening 2007

Andrew: And we also have a new announcement, everyone, that we will keep bugging you about up until mid-July. MuggleCast will be at Enlightening 2007, which is a conference similar to Prophecy 2007 and Lumos 2006. We announced this earlier this week, along with the Wizard Rock band Moaning Myrtles, and I’m actually hoping to open for them. I’ve got to let them know, you know, about my new Wizard Rock band. Maybe they’ll let me open for them. But anyway, the point is we will be doing a live podcast from Enlightening 2007. Me, Ben, and Jamie are definitely signed on. No word yet on the other co-hosts. Eric, you’re going to be in New Zealand?

Eric: Yeah, but I might come home depending on – I’m going to go to Prophecy, so I don’t know…

Andrew: Right.

Eric: …when I’m coming in for that.

Andrew: It’s, like, three weeks before Prophecy.

Eric: Yeah, so I don’t know, depending on school.

Andrew: All right. Micah, Laura, and Kevin are still undetermined. Ben, Jamie, and I are actually going to be in – we’re going to be here chilling in South Jersey, so it’s going to happen to work out. But we’re also going to be teaching a workshop on podcasting. It’s going to be four like, hour-long sessions – probably, this is all very still in the works. [laughs] But we’re going to be teaching a workshop on podcasting, so if you want to learn more about podcasting, maybe how to start your own, we’re going through everything. We encourage you to come to Enlightening 2007. Also, they’re going to have some seminars. They’ve got a lot of great stuff planned. Just go to light…Enlightening07 dot…

Oh, no, no, it’s, and you can sign up. It’s going to be in Philadelphia and it’s going to be a lot of fun. So, that is…where are the dates? July 12th to the 15th, 2007 at the University of Pennsylvania, and we’re looking forward to it a lot. So, sign up right away and actually, we’re going to be doing the live podcast at Enlightening the night of Order of the Phoenix‘s United States release, so there’s going to be a lot of excitement going on that night.

Eric: Andrew, you, maybe…

Andrew: We’re going to be talking about the film.

Eric: …you can open for the live podcast.

Andrew: Yeah. That would be like Bono opening for U2, though.

[Eric and Kevin laugh]

Andrew: Doesn’t make sense.

Eric: Well, or you could just break out in song in the middle of the podcast. I don’t know.

Andrew: That’s true, that’s true.

Eric: Just a few ideas to play out with, I mean, you know?

Andrew: I don’t know, I might get stage fright. I’m not sure. I don’t know how this Wizard Rock band is going to work out.

Eric: Stage fright? Oh

Andrew: Yeah, I’m not sure yet.

Voicemail: Ginny and the Veil

Andrew: And, as we’ve been promising for the past few weeks, Episode 66, this is our all voicemail show! Yaaayyy!

Eric: Wooo! Except half of it was talk.

Kevin: [laughs] Yeah, no kidding.

Andrew: We’re hitting up the phone lines – yeah. We’re hitting up the phone – it was just me ranting. We’re hitting up the phone lines tonight with lots of voicemail questions from you guys. Let’s get started. Let’s get this party started.

[Audio]: Hi guys, my name is Nick from Illinois and you guys mentioned a couple of shows ago that Ginny can hear the voices beyond the veil, but she would have to see someone die, and we don’t know if she’s seen anyone die so far, but do you think that she could have seen Moaning Myrtle die through Tom Riddle’s diary? Thanks, I love the show! Bye!

Andrew: Does Nick mean see Moaning Myrtle like when she went into the actual diary?

Laura: Well, I think that that would be the only way that it would’ve worked, and I’m not sure Ginny did go into the diary. Did she?

Kevin: Not to mention, how plausible is it that she saw someone die through a diary that she thought was actually good?

Laura: Well, the only this is, Nick told Harry or, not Nick [laughs]

Andrew: [laughs] The voicemail caller told Harry?

Laura: [still laughing] No.

Andrew: I didn’t know that they talked.

Laura: I got confused. No, Tom Riddle told Harry that he got Ginny to trust him by showing her things, but he wasn’t terribly specific about what exactly it was he showed her, or if he just, you know, kind of let her read his diary or whatever. I don’t know if he actually took her into that and showed her things, though.

Andrew: Well, I would think that that would definitely gain her trust, showing how Moaning Myrtle died, because – sorry, Eric’s calling. Because I’m sure she was really curious about that. So if Tom was like, “Alright, you want me to show you her death?” and she saw it.

Laura: But – but then wouldn’t she have known that he was the one that killed her? And why would – why would you trust someone like that?

Eric: Well, actually, he was.

Kevin: Yeah, and would he have…

Eric: Yeah, because when Moaning Myrtle recounts this – the tale of her death, she said she hears or she heard, a boy’s voice…

Laura: Yeah, it was, but…

Eric: …in the bathroom, like calling up – because he opened the [phone rings] sorry, phone.

Laura: No, but he would probably…

Eric: Sorry, phone. Because he opened the entrance to the Chamber of Secrets, and apparently like right then and there – like when Moaning Myrtle poked her head out to see, you know, to tell the boy to get out of the girls bathroom, that the basilisk came and she saw the…

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: …eyes. So, technically…

Kevin: But then again, would – why would that instill trust in Tom Riddle by showing that?

Eric: No, I don’t necessarily think that.

Laura: Unless, I mean…

Eric: Yeah.

Laura: Unless he showed it to her from the point of view that he wasn’t there. You know?

Eric: I don’t think…

Laura: I mean, Tom Riddle was obviously a very powerful wizard. If he wanted to show her something…

Kevin: I would think it was sort of a long stretch though.

Laura: Yeah.

Kevin: When you see, you know? There’s war videos when you see – technically, you’re seeing people die. But you don’t – it’s not the same as being there.

Laura: Yeah. I think the only way it could have worked would be if Tom had taken Ginny into his diary the same way Harry went into his diary. And I’m not sure that’s what happened.

Kevin: But even then, does it have the same impact?

Eric: Well, no. What I’m thinking is that he wouldn’t – I don’t think he even would show her when he killed Moaning Myrtle, you know? That wouldn’t instill trust or anything. I just think it’s a matter of Voldemort shares a part of himself with Harry, that’s why Harry can speak Parseltongue, because some of his powers transferred. I think in the possession of Ginny some certain aspects like the ability to see Thestrals or hear voices or any of that sort, Voldemort has certainly seen death. So, why can it not just be like that vague connection that Voldemort shared with Ginny that allows her to hear the voices? Instead of this whole, “Oh, he showed her someone dying, and therefore she knows what it’s like.” Why can’t it just be the connection that Voldemort shared with her? Maybe anybody Voldemort possesses, at any point, would therefore be able to see Thestrals and hear voices because of Voldemort’s strict connection with death.

Kevin: Did we even establish that the Veil was related directly to death?

Andrew: Well, no. What we were talking about in, like, a couple weeks ago was that maybe it’s a near death that lets you hear the voices beyond the Veil. Wasn’t it?

Kevin: Yeah, that’s what I thought we had said. But in that case, then, just the whole fact of Ginny’s experience in Chamber of Secrets

Eric: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, that’s true, because…

Laura: Yeah. I think…

Kevin: …could account for that.

Eric: Oh, yeah.

Laura: I think Eric brings up a good point, because if you’ll remember Riddle said something about like how he would pour a little bit of his soul back into Ginny to keep her alive long enough to carry out his plan and stuff.

Eric: Or something like that.

Laura: Yeah. What if there is something there? I mean, obviously…

Eric: Well, what Kevin said.

Laura: …Harry…

Eric: Yeah. Kevin was quick to point out, too – Nick said, “Who has Ginny seen die?” But Ginny herself was in a near death experience. I think we sometimes seem to forget that she was lying on a floor for, you know, on a chamber floor, on a cold, wet chamber floor dying, near death as her energy, her life force, was being sucked out of her. I mean, that’s a near death experience if there ever was one. So, Ginny is very well qualified to see these things and hear these things. Just because of that.

Micah: I don’t know. I kind of relate it back to Harry and the whole idea of Thestrals with, why didn’t he see it before if he was – he experienced death at such a young age? And it said because at that point he didn’t really understand what it was. I don’t necessarily know that if Ginny was in a trance and she really knew what was going on.

Kevin: Yeah, that’s a good point.

Micah: And she would remember anything that would allow her to recall the death, if she even experienced it in the first place.

Eric: Well, whether or not she knows what’s going on, Voldemort knew what was going on when he did it, and he was just showing her his perspective, his whole – I think if you touch Voldemort, if you stand in Voldemort’s presence, I think something happens to you where death is just all around you. I mean, that’s a sign of his evil. That’s the kind of thing I’m imagining. Maybe it’s far-fetched.

Micah: How come Tom Riddle didn’t die from the basilisk?

Eric: Well, maybe he…

Laura: Because he controlled it.

Kevin: Yeah.

Eric: [laughs] Because then there would be no Harry Potter series.

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: So, what if Harry started speaking Parseltongue? Would the snake listen to him?

Eric: Well, it did almost.

Andrew: Probably not.

Eric: Well, didn’t it? It was either in the movie or in the movie and the book, where Tom Riddle made it only listen to him instead of like…

Laura: I know that was definitely in the movie. I can’t remember if that was in the book.

Eric: It was definitely in the movie, because Christian Coulson said that, “It only obeys me now.” But, you know, something like that. Technically Harry could speak Parseltongue, and that’s how Harry can understand it later. I think it – I can just see Harry using Parseltongue to infiltrate Voldemort’s lair in Book Seven or something like that, using it further. But I thought it was cool that Harry had to pretend that the sink faucet was a real snake and said, “Open,” and that it worked, and he kept saying, “Open,” to the various doors. That kind of stuff, that kind of stuff is cool, but almost underplayed; but we kind of know it’s there. So I think it’s going to play a bigger part later. All these…

Andrew: Back to the original question.

Eric: Yeah, back to the original question.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: All these connections with Voldemort, I just think the fact that Ginny was connected or that she had that near death experience.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: It doesn’t necessarily mean one of her aunts or uncles – that reminds me! Molly’s brothers, Gideon and Fabian Prewett, died and maybe through seeing Molly’s woes, you know, mother-daughter kind of thing, maybe Molly talked about them to her, I don’t know.

Kevin: I think it was… I think it still…

Andrew: I think it has to do with the Chamber of Secrets.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: That situation was just too…

Kevin: Yeah.

Andrew: …dark.

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: Well, if your mother is as overbearing as Molly is, too, I’m pretty sure you get a good enough idea of what she is talking about. Like if she says, “Look out for this,” you really have to find out what “this” is.

Andrew: Alright, next voicemail. I honestly thought that question was going to take us like five seconds to answer.

Eric: Yeah, I thought so, too.

Laura: [laughs] Me, too. I did, too.

Voicemail: Pensieve in the Cave?

[Audio:] Hi, MuggleCasters! I’m Nicole, 14, from Virginia. I have always thought the stone basin that Dumbledore had to drink out of was actually a Pensieve with the memories of the children he had tortured there. That’s why the children did not tell anybody what had happened, because they couldn’t remember. Another thing that convinced me is what Laura said in a previous episode: You guys were talking about the Brain Room and how the brain had attacked Ron and maybe left him with memories. Laura compared Ron’s acting to Dumbledore when he drank from the basin. So, if Ron was reacting that way because of the memories, maybe the basin was actually a Pensieve. Love the show! Jamie, you’re my favorite.

Eric: Oh. Well, you know, isn’t it…

Laura: [in flirty voice] Oh, Jamie.

Eric: Isn’t it great to hear that Jamie is her favorite, and she thought of this when hearing something Laura had said on a previous episode?

[Laura laughs]>

Kevin: Yeah, that’s great.

Eric: Wait a minute! Wait a minute!

[Micah laughs]

Eric: As I recall, I mentioned a very similar theory I brought up. And a ten year-old told me it was the worst constructed theory he had ever heard.

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Eric: He said, “It’s a pretty weak theory, isn’t it?” [laughs]

Andrew: When was that? At the LIVE podcast?

Eric: Yeah, the podcast -not we did in New York or Vegas, but the one that we record…

Andrew: L.A.

Kevin: I’ve actually got…

Eric: No, the one that we…

Andrew: Oooh, that one.

Eric: Yeah, and somebody told me…

Andrew: I remember that. That kid was awesome.

Eric: Somebody told me he was the same guy who said he was Yoda from the MuggleNet chat room. You know, from so long ago?

Andrew: Who left a voicemail?

Eric: Yeah, who left a voicemail.

Andrew: Oh, good old Yoda.

Laura: Oh.

Andrew: I’m going to write a book on classic MuggleCast moments.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: That’s definitely one of them.

Eric: It’s a good question, so let’s answer it.

Micah: Well, I think I brought this up on an earlier show, actually. And I think he’s seeing either what’s going on right then, or what’s going on – or what’s going to happen very soon in the future. Because the school is coming under attack, and he is constantly talking about, “No, not the children, not the children.” And I think he is seeing his worst fear come true, and that’s Hogwarts coming under attack and him not being there to defend it.

Laura: I think so as well. Not to mention the liquid in the stone basin was green. Pensieves are white.

Eric: It’s…

Kevin: Yeah, but I always thought that it was like Voldemort’s view of the future. Like, his, I don’t know.

Laura: Well, that could also be Dumbledore’s worst fear – would be Voldemort’s…

Kevin: It’s possible, yeah. I suppose so.

Laura: …like, outlook for the future.

Andrew: Greatest desire. Yeah.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: So, wait, Micah, you’re saying that Hogwarts is going to be under attack?

Laura: Well, it was in Half-Blood Prince.

Micah: No, I’m saying right at that moment that’s exactly what was happening. When he was in the cave…

Andrew: Oh, oh, okay.

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: Gotcha.

Eric: I think Dumbledore muttered a lot and muttered a lot less, “not the children,” than he did, “the pain, make it stop, I know I did wrong.”

Laura: Yeah, but he says, “don’t hurt them.”

Eric: Well, kind of. But maybe. He said a lot of other things.

Laura: No, it’s not kind of. He says, “don’t hurt them.”

Eric: In that episode I brought up a lot of the other things he said that supported my theory then, including, “the pain, make it stop,” and, “I know I did…” It seemed like what the children would say if Riddle was torturing them in that cave. So, I venture the theory that maybe all of…

Micah: No, he wouldn’t be saying that. I mean, that’s almost coming from another person’s perspective, saying, “don’t hurt them.” If you’re saying that “them” is the children, the children can’t be referring to themselves.

Eric: No, but I don’t think if Dumbledore was seeing the children get upset that he would actually behave that way.

Micah: Yeah, but he’s got to be reliving somebody’s moment right there.

Eric: Well, yeah, he could be reliving – what I’m saying is, maybe in order for someone to obtain the Horcrux properly, you have to fully be able to live, like, the experience that Voldemort wishes to encase in this Pensieve or this basin, which is the memory of his torture, his cruelness, his cruelty, to these children. So, you relive – it’s kind of like a mark of why this place is significant. It was almost as if you collect the puzzle pieces you can get inside into Voldemort’s favorite moments if you go on a Horcrux – it’s like a photo album. Think of all Voldemort’s Horcruxes as – Horcrux locations as a photo album and you go back to it, like the Gaunt house was smashed and nobody knows exactly what he had to do to get it, but you had to understand a little bit about Voldemort’s past to find the Gaunt house. I’m just saying, I thought it tied in more with what he did than with anything that was going on in the future.

Micah: It’s possible.

Laura: I don’t know, I just don’t think that that liquid behaved like a Pensieve, because…

Eric: It was…

Laura: …whenever…

Eric: …obviously different and you couldn’t tap it with your wand and put it in your brain or anything like that.

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: You couldn’t make it show you anything. It didn’t have to be…

Micah: It was there for a while, it was a little moldy, you know? So…

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: Moldy Pensieve.

Eric: Moldy memories. Yeah.

Micah: But, it almost looked like he knew what he was about to drink, so I don’t know.

Laura: Yeah. I think Dumbledore…

Andrew: He must have known what he was getting himself into.

Laura: I think he did, too, absolutely.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah, it’s like Pensieve Juice, basically.

Eric: I agree with you because he wanted water afterwards.

Andrew: Makes you go mad and it doesn’t pull memories.

Laura: I’d have to say that that’s my final conclusion on that topic.

Eric: So, maybe a Pensieve, maybe something related to memories. It makes sense but we don’t know what, and it was definitely a little bit different at any rate because it could only be drunk and things like that.

Andrew: Yes.

Laura: All right, next voicemail.

Voicemail: Where is Krum?

Audio: Hey guys, my name is Tamara and I’m from Chicago. And briefly you guys mentioned on your last show, Viktor Krum, and it occurred to me that I think Jo said that he’d be back, or we’d hear from him again. So if we do in Book 7, what do you think might happen if he returns to Hogwarts, or the Hogwarts area and he and Hermione meet up again, considering Hermione and Ron are “together” now? Love to hear what you guys think… Love the show!

Andrew: [in a high-pitched voice] Gossip time!

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: I think if he comes back, I think Ron will get ticked off about it, but I don’t think that Hermione would get together with him or anything.

Andrew: Yeah, if Ron and Hermione are together now, I think Hermione is probably over Krum.

Laura: I don’t think she was ever…

Eric: I was going to say, was she…

Laura: …really that much in – really infatuated with him to begin with.

Andrew: Why don’t you think so?

Eric: Well, she liked him. She liked the attention.

Laura: I think, yeah, she did, but I think she was using him to get to Ron. [laughs]

Andrew: Oh.

Eric: Well, I don’t know about that. Initially, but she did like – I mean, he liked her, he genuinely thought she was this pretty girl, which she had never gotten from Harry or Ron, and she realized immediately, she’s a smart enough girl that Viktor wasn’t particularly loquacious or whatever it was. But, I just don’t think that Viktor – if Viktor came back, I think if this… If Tamara is asking about whether Viktor will play a part in a relationship that would make Ron jealous or whether Viktor will be jealous to find Hermione had moved on. In Book Six Hermione did say she was still writing to Krum, I think, didn’t she? Like, just…

Laura: I know she was in Book Five.

Eric: Or maybe it was Book Five.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: And so, I don’t know when J.K. Rowling said that we were going to hear back from Viktor Krum. I don’t know that it would be like the same situation with Fleur where it’s like all of a sudden, big character again from Book Four. I don’t think that will happen.

Andrew: And why would Krum return to Hogwarts?

Micah: I think he would fight on the side of the Order.

Andrew: Well, I guess because Jo said that he’s going to make an appearance.

Laura: Yeah…

Micah: And actually…

Andrew: Or we’d hear from him.

Eric: When did she say that, though? That’s my only question.

Laura: Yeah. [laughs]

Eric: Because depending – if she said that before Book Five, there you go, Hermione is still writing to him.

Micah: No, I think she has bigger implications. And…

Laura: No, I think she meant like an actual reappearance.

Micah: And at the end of Goblet of Fire, Dumbledore makes a point of saying…

Laura: And I know she did say it, I just don’t remember where.

Micah: …”these connections that you make this year are going to be important in the future.”

Laura: Yeah, he said, “You’ll always be welcome at Hogwarts.” So…

Kevin: Yeah, you sort of expect that the people that you’ve been seeing throughout the books are going to play a role in helping Harry, so, you sort of expect he’ll show up somewhere.

Eric: I think Viktor would be a good leader and be a good helping hand to Harry. It seems there was some confusion whether or not he’d be like a jealous kind of boyfriend. Like, if Hermione went with Ron or something. I think Viktor, especially in the movie, portrays him as a very understanding, very mature kind of guy in addition to being this sports hog, which the books didn’t. As far as him understanding and being able to cope with a lot of things. The books made him a lot, “Hermy this, Hermy that,” he couldn’t even get her name right. And the movie kind of made him more flesh and blood, more humane, kind of like – kind of more like a role model.

Laura: The movie portrayal really doesn’t have any bearing on what he’s going to be like in the book.

Eric: Which is why we have to see. Well, what was he like in the books? He was kind of duck-footed, kind of not really…

Laura: But, at the same time, I don’t see him being the jealous type, really.

Andrew: J.K. Rowling said at the World Book Day chat back on March 4th, 2004, after Order of the Phoenix‘s release that, the question was, “Will we be seeing Krum again any time soon?” Jo replied, “You will see Krum again, though not soon.”

Eric: Oh.

Andrew: Which implies to me, “not soon.” If it was “soon” it would be Book Six, “not soon” would be past it.

Kevin: Yeah, the next book, right.

Andrew: Right. Yeah, so, there you go. So, it doesn’t have to do with Book Five, so that does mean…

Eric: So, maybe Viktor Krum will show up at the end of Book Seven, help Harry defeat Voldemort, and then he’ll be looking down at his elbow which now has a scar.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: And Viktor Krum shows up way later in the series. It works. Never mind.

Kevin: Okay.

Andrew: All right. Next voicemail.

Kevin: Yeah, please. laughs

Andrew: That quote came from Thanks to them.

Voicemail: Tiara Horcrux?

[Audio]: Hi, MuggleCasters! This is Roxanne, 15, of Ontario. I was doing some research on theories in the forums on the Ravenclaw Horcrux, and a bunch of these people think that it could be a tiara, possibly Great Auntie Muriel’s goblin-made tiara mentioned at the end of Book 6. It’s shiny enough for Voldemort, and could represent the encirclement of the mind, very appropriate for Ravenclaw. Just wondering what you guys thought. See ya! Oh yeah, Happy Pickle Day!

Andrew: Pickle Day! Woo! Ow!

Eric: God, that’s an old voicemail.

Andrew: Did I tell you guys how I celebrated? 6:30 AM: Wake up, cut school, go to the supermarket, purchase ten jars of pickles and I eat them all day in my room, while going to myself, “Pickle, pickle, pickle, pickle,
pickle, pickle, pickle, pickle.” But it was my mouth full so it sounded like [makes muffled noise]. But anyway, that’s how I celebrated.

Kevin: Then you skipped the next day because you were sick.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: I was – no, Kevin.

Eric: The next three days you were subsequently home sick from school from eating that many pickles.

Kevin: Exactly. That’s what I’m saying.

Andrew: Oh! That’s not true. I can take pickles like nobody else.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Moving on!

Micah: Where did this thing come from? Sorry. I really don’t remember.

Laura: The tiara? It was at the end of Half-Blood Prince, whenever they were talking about Fleur and Bill’s wedding, and Mrs. Weasley and Fleur got all teary with each other. She said that she had a goblin-made tiara in the family that she was going to let Fleur wear at the wedding.

Micah: How would Voldemort get a hold of it, though?

Andrew: Mhm.

Laura: Now, if that’s…

Kevin: Yeah, but he’s a pretty resourceful person.

Laura: Yeah, exactly. But assuming that it’s true – and let’s just discuss
this for a second – what kind of connection could the Weasley family have to the Ravenclaw house?

Eric: Oh my god, wait a minute. If you realize, wasn’t Hepzibah Smith like a direct descent of Hufflepuff? And she had some of those family heirloom thingies? And we don’t know that the Weasleys are directly related to Ravenclaws – that would seem unlikely – but the Weasleys are a pureblood family, even though they’re blood traitors or whatever, but aren’t they a pureblood family, and we know that in the past pureblood families such as the Malfoys have potential to have Slytherin possessions and, therefore, makes sense that if the Weasleys are pureblood, they could, not necessarily even be related to Ravenclaw, but I guess pureblood families are who you look to first if you wanted to find some of the old relics of famous wizards such as the Founders. Is that making any sense?

Kevin: Yeah, it’s plausible. I like how the voicemail said, “shiny enough for Voldemort.”

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Kevin: As though shiny is one of these…

Eric: As opposed to it being Ravenclaw’s…

Laura: But doesn’t Molly saying, “I have it,” imply that she knows where it

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: I mean, why would Voldemort make something into a Horcrux and leave it
at the Weasley house?

Eric: Well, what about Peter Pettigrew?

Laura: What about him?

Micah: [laughs] Is he a Horcrux?

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: No, he’s not a Horcrux! But look at that. What is the…

Andrew: Eric’s implying that Pettigrew could of taken it.

Eric: No, no, no. I’m not even implying that. What is this faithful servant of Voldemort’s doing under Percy’s pillow, or sleeping with Percy at night?

Kevin: Wait, what? [laughs]

Eric: Strange things, strange tragedies and strange things befall the Weasleys. That’s all I’m saying. How did a rat, who was actually a man, hide out for years and years under the Weasley family? They accepted him as a pet. Why are you questioning the unlikeliness or the likeliness of a tiara…

Laura: Well, I’m just… Do you think that…

Eric: …that Mrs. Weasley has being a possible Voldemort thing? Voldemort and the Weasleys have been connected before. Voldemort possessed their daughter. I think there’s more connections between the Weasleys and Voldemort than there is a lot of other people.

Laura: Yeah, but you have…

Kevin: Yeah, but, but…

Laura: …to consider that – sorry, Kevin.

Kevin: No, it’s okay, go.

Laura: That Voldemort… I mean, it’s a piece of his soul and we’ve seen
that he does a lot to protect those. Why would he choose something that was
in the possession of a family he would consider blood traitors?

Eric: Ah, now I see your point and I actually agree with it.

Kevin: Yeah, it’s true.

Eric: Because the only reason the diary was even out there was because

Laura: Because Lucius gave it to Ginny.

Kevin: Was because of Lucius.

Eric: Well, Voldemort personally gave it to Lucius. He removed it from
wherever it may have been hiding it at the time. So, do you think that by
those means that all of Voldemort’s Horcruxes are hidden? Therefore, not
likely to be things you would find outside of booby-trapped things, with the exception of the locket, which has obviously been removed from the cave.

Kevin: Yeah, but the locket could be booby-trapped.

Laura: Yeah, it could.

Micah: Is the locket removed from the cave, though, that’s another

Eric: Well, the locket

Laura: Yeah, the locket was at Grimmauld Place.

Micah: Well, don’t you remember when Harry was in the cave and he said, however you say it, “Accio Horcrux,” and the thing flew up from under the lake?

Laura: I always assumed that was an Inferi.

Eric: That was just something trying to block the Accio spell; the summoning spell.

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: Because immediately after Dumbledore said, “As I would have guessed the summoning spells, it won’t be that easy.”

Micah: Oh, okay. Sorry.

Eric: Basically, yeah. So, I think that was, what are they called? What are they called, what are they called? The dead people.

Laura: Inferi.

Eric: Thank you. And I think it was one of them just jumping up and down and he’s
like, “We’re not alone.” But the Horcrux wasn’t in the lake, and if it was that would really, really stink.

Voicemail: What are Dementors?


Hi, MuggleCast. This is Tracey, and I have a question about the Dementors: I was wondering what they’re classified as, because they’re not in Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them at all, and they’re not human at all. So I just wanted to know what you guys think. I love MuggleCast! Bye.

Eric: This is a good question, and…

Andrew: A ghost because they float.

Eric: …I have a theory but you guys go first. A ghost?

Andrew: Yeah.

Kevin: A specter?

Eric: A specter? You think so?

Kevin: I don’t know if they would be classified in any of the Fantastic
Beasts classifications, if that’s what they mean. I mean…

Eric: Well, Lethifolds were.

Kevin: Yeah, but these are sort of like a class of their own, kind of.

Andrew: Mmm. I don’t know.

Eric: Let’s look at Dementors. Okay, they feed on human emotion, on
happiness. We don’t know if it’s strictly limited to humans or we might, but…

Laura: It is limited to humans.

Eric: It is limited to humans? Okay.

Laura: Yeah, because Sirius escaped by turning into a dog.

Eric: Oh, right. Well, they detect, yeah, they detect strong emotion and they thought he
was getting ready to die or they thought Barty Crouch was getting ready to die because he was getting weaker. So, it’s humans – strictly the human range – but they suck the happiness out of a place, we know they mate in like cold weather conditions. Kind of misty, muggy, coldness.

Laura: Fog. [laughs]

Eric: Fog. [laughs] That’s the word I was looking for. I heard a theory once that and I know it’s been speculated but it’s actually been quite cool. I want to know what you guys think about this: That Dementors may be man-made creatures, as in wizard-made creatures, to guard the facility. Think about it: What if Dementors were man-made?

Laura: I don’t think so, because…

Kevin: I don’t think so.

Laura: …why would it talk about them breeding?

Kevin: Exactly. That’s the whole…

Eric: Man-made things can breed. That’s like a robot. That’s like
building an artificial intelligence that can duplicate itself.

Andrew: But they don’t exist.

Kevin: But, we haven’t. There is no robot that can breed.

Andrew: But then again, who is to say that you couldn’t create something that could reproduce? I think that makes sense.

Eric: We alter flowers. We change their colors and things like that. Like,
why can’t wizards create something that…

Laura: Yeah, but have we ever created a flower?

Eric: Well, we’re not geniuses exactly.

Kevin: Exactly.

Eric: I mean, we’ve created new breeds.

Andrew: If you can create it to kill, why couldn’t you create it to reproduce? It’s magic. I think that makes sense.

Eric: I think if you can create something that’s actually like – I mean, obviously we’re talking about the top people, but if you are a wizarding government and you need to keep inmates in. You know, if you need to keep criminals at bay, why would you not create a creature that is disgusting, is absolutely terrible, it feeds on human happiness.

Laura: But Dementors weren’t created for Azkaban. They used to be on Voldemort’s side.

Eric: Well…

Kevin: And I don’t see them creating – any good person would not want to bring a creature into the world that was so bad.

Eric: Oh yeah?

Laura: Well, I don’t doubt that someone stupid would make the mistake of creating something like that, but I don’t think it was, just because we knew that the Dementors were on Voldemort’s side during the first war and they probably are now.

Eric: Couldn’t they have been in Azkaban before they were on Voldemort’s side, or would that have said they had rebelled before or something? What I’m saying is their origin is very unknown, so I just wanted to pose that because I…

Kevin: Well, the origins are unknown, but if you’re describing Dementors to someone who doesn’t know what Dementors are and you know they were created, you don’t say, “They are the creatures guarding Azkaban.” You say, “They were the creatures created to guard Azkaban.”

Eric: No, but who said that?

Kevin: You know what I’m saying?

Laura: I was always under the impression that they were considered so, you know, kind of disgusting that no one really took the time to classify them.

Eric: Well, in Lord of the Rings, you get trolls and what am I saying? Trolls. Orcs – they were kind of like elves or something in mythology of Lord of the Rings? They were like…

Kevin: In Lord of the Rings? Oh, no.

Eric: Elves are trees, but if you burn trees or something…

Kevin: Lord of the Rings it goes – no, because in Lord of the Rings there’s a long back story that involves, somewhat of demigods….

Eric: Oh.

Kevin: …coming down and creating. One of the demigods was jealous of the others and created…

Eric: Kind of like a fallen elf.

Kevin: Right, but in that case – Lord of the Rings – it was actually godlike. He had to be…

Eric: Well, I know to build the Uruk hai, the super elf, you have to burn the trees and like do this. What I’m saying is, you know like with Dementors – just the heinous beasts that they are.

Kevin: Well, it was also, like many of the creatures in Lord of the Rings, was a mutation of a creature that already existed, like an elf like Eric was saying.

Laura: Yeah, that’s what I thought.

Voicemail: Luna’s Parents in the Order?

[Audio]: Hi MuggleCasters, this is Miranda, 17 from Idaho and I was just wondering what do you think of the possibility that Luna’s parents were in the Order? It seems really likely to me since Luna is so willing to fight against Voldemort, and with her dad owning The Quibbler maybe there’s something they could communicate, however, we never hear from Moody that they are in the picture or anything, and we never hear anything else. So I just wanted to know what your thoughts were. Thanks! Love the show!

Kevin: You have to remember that the Order was a very select group of people…

Eric: Yes.

Kevin: …that was put together by Dumbledore and people that were directly next to Dumbledore and had been taught by him to fight Voldemort. It’s not saying that her parents didn’t fight Voldemort and didn’t stand against him, but I don’t think they were in the Order, no.

Eric: This is a problem as a result of JKR writing about a select group of people, about focusing on, you know, the people in the Order. You say – it comes down to – you think it’s Order and Voldemort but really, just like Kevin said, you know, the Order is a select group of people and it doesn’t mean they weren’t on the good side, Luna’s parents. It seems clearly that Luna’s father is kind of whimsical, kind of like, you know, has the right idea at least being politically aware that things could be wrong with the world and her mother seems like a great witch. So, I’m sure they would be on the good side, but not in the Order. I don’t think it’s going as far as to say, “Okay. Seamus’ parents are good, where are they in this photograph?”

Laura: Yeah, and the Weasleys weren’t…

Micah: Well, even the fact that the Weasleys weren’t…

Laura: Right.

Eric: Yeah, the Weasleys weren’t even in it.

Micah: Good thought, Laura. Very good thought. [laughs]

Laura: Great minds think alike, Micah.

[Kevin laughs]

Voicemail: Will Harry’s Patronus Change?

[Audio]: Hi MuggleCasters, this is Posey from Sydney, Australia. I was just thinking of something the other day: In book six we learned that Tonks changed her Patronus because of a great emotional upheaval. Do you think Harry will have the same thing happen to him? I mean, do you think that his Patronus will change in Book Seven because of the change that he’s having around him and his great battle with Voldemort? And if he does survive Book Seven, do you think his Patronus, at the end of his battle with Lord Voldemort, will be changed forever? Just thinking. I think you can answer my question. Thanks a lot. Bye.

Kevin: No.

Micah: No.

Laura: Why not?

Eric: Well, it happened once, will it happen again?

Andrew: Why? What’s the…?

Kevin: Not to mention it’s – no. It hasn’t happened once. His Patronus has always been the image of what his father was: the Stag. Right? So, it’s sort of like that one whimsical thing about Harry that she’s not going to change.

Laura: What if it’s like – if it becomes Harry though? What if it’s not like mirroring his dad anymore? For once he’s stands up and people see him…

Andrew: On his own, yeah.

Laura: Yeah, you know?

Eric: Harry does mirror his dad.

Kevin: Yeah, but…

Laura: He does, but…

Kevin: …I never thought of it like that.

Laura: But everybody always says, “You look just like your father.”

Kevin: But I’ve always seen it as the piece of his father that he never got to actually see. You know? Like…

Eric: He treasures most.

Kevin: It represents his father in him.

Eric: In such a great way.

Kevin: Exactly.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: You know if emotion was going to change Harry, you know if high stress was going to change Harry’s Patronus, wouldn’t that have happened already?

Laura: I don’t know. I mean…

Eric: You know, high enough stress in Books Three, Four, Five and Six.

Laura: I don’t know. There could be something really horrible that happens in Book Seven that causes it to change.

Eric: It’s kind of, I want to use the word enigmatic, which is kind of you know a cool word. Somebody’s going to give me five points for using that word. But it’s enigmatic that Tonks…

Micah: Or take five away for using it the wrong way.

Laura: Yeah. [laughs]

Eric: Oh. Oh, crap.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: You know Micah, you’re right.

Micah: I’m just kidding, go ahead.

Eric: It’s…[laughs] All right, Tonks. You know? The whole emotional thing that she went through? Tonks’ Patronus changed, but it turns out in the end of Book Six it was just because she was having some kind of relationship anxiety with Lupin, you know. She kind of wanted to try something with him, but he was totally like, “Yeah. I don’t really want to do that. I’m too old for you, kid.”

Laura: Yeah, but people process stress differently.

Eric: So, but she took it… Yeah, and she took it to heart and that’s why it changed her Patronus. Even though, I mean, it’s interesting that JKR, and it’s enigmatic, that JKR should introduce this kind of idea that a Patronus can be changed by heightened emotion or stress when it doesn’t seem to apply to a lot of other people. I mean people are like – yes, your Patronus can change, but that doesn’t mean if you go through stress that it will change.

Laura: That doesn’t mean for sure, but I think it’s a possibility.

Kevin: Right.

Andrew: Yeah. I think…

Laura: Because Harry has this enormous weight on his shoulders. The entire wizarding world is – I mean, if he doesn’t succeed, they’re screwed.

Andrew: Yeah. I think this would just upset Harry even more. I think he likes having his dad’s Stag, to be honest with you.

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Eric: It’s true. If his Patronus changes because of stress he’s going to be more stressed out because his daddy won’t be there to protect him. I mean, that’s what his Patronus is essentially – is a way for Prongs to really live. Like in Book Three, they said, “Prongs rode again tonight,” just because of the…

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Harry’s Patronus…

Andrew: In a way, his father is helping him out.

Eric: His father is helping him out, and…

Laura: I always took that as James living on through Harry.

Andrew: That’s really nice.

Laura: But I don’t know. I just don’t think that…

Andrew: Well, that’s what we’re saying, basically.

Laura: I know, but I think that a big theme of Book Seven is going to be Harry standing up on his own, and I think that…

Eric: Well, it’s not going to change to him. Your Patronus can’t be yourself, or that would be really stupid, if, like, it…

Laura: No, I’m not saying it can be yourself, but it can be something that relates more to you.

Eric: Than your father?

Laura: It’s…

Eric: Than your father, whom you love, and would have given anything to meet? I don’t know.

Laura: I’m talking about, for instance, Hermione’s Patronus is an otter.

Kevin: Something personal.

Laura: Yes, exactly.

Kevin: Yeah.

Laura: And I’m not saying that a father isn’t personal, but…

Eric: Hmmm.

Laura: …something that is more like Harry’s personality.

Eric: Okay. Well, I think that’s the difference between a Patronus and Animagus. If Harry were to turn into an Animagus, it wouldn’t be a stag, that’s safe to say. It would be something that relates more to him, like, maybe a beaver. [laughs]

Kevin: I just don’t think…

Laura: Okay, but does Hermione’s Patronus turn into an otter just because her mom likes otters?

Eric: No.

Andrew: How does an otter scare away Dementors? [laughs] I don’t get that at all.

Eric: Well, it – no, it doesn’t matter what it is. A Dementor – what a Patronus is, it’s an essence of concentrated nothingness. [laughs]

Andrew: It – it was meant to be a joke. Sorry.

Eric: Yeah, okay.

Andrew: But, I mean, just kind of laugh. [laughs]

Micah: My thought was that Tonks changed it herself, that she didn’t change it because her emotions changed, because when she goes up to the castle to bring Harry back right off the train after Draco broke his nose…

Eric: That was a good scene.

Micah: …what happened was that Snape obviously makes a snide comment about her Patronus changing, and I thought she said something along the lines of, “Well, I did it because….” So, that implies to me that she changed it, not that it just automatically changed.

Eric: Oh.

Laura: I don’t remember her saying that, but I could be totally wrong.

Eric: So could I.

Laura: I just remember Snape saying that it’s weak.

Kevin: Yeah.

Eric: Oh, yeah, and that – she totally flushed then, but he knew what it was. He knew she changed it to look like Lupin, which is what it was, even though it was like a creature on all fours that Harry quickly mistook as Sirius, but I think it was actually Lupin, or the werewolf, or like a werewolf form.

Laura: I don’t know. I guess we’ll have to…

Andrew: Very interesting.

Laura: …wait to find out about that. Yeah.

Andrew: That was good, though.

Eric: That was a good answer.

Voicemail: How Do You Kill a Werewolf?

[Audio]: Hey, MuggleCast! This is Peter, age 13, of Atlanta, Georgia. “Pickle!” as Andrew says on the message. I was calling with a theory. Well, not so much a theory, more of a question. Jo said on her site that Remus Lupin will not be killed by Peter Pettigrew’s silver hand, and I agree with that. I think that would be really dumb, but she said the only thing that could kill a werewolf is a silver bullet. Does that mean that Remus wouldn’t be killed if he was hit with the AK? And if so, where would a wizard get a silver bullet to shoot Remus with, since that’s a Muggle item? Thanks so much! Love your show! See you later!

Andrew: Well, I mean, all you’ve got to do is go into the weapon store and pick it up. [laughs] To be honest…

Laura: Yeah, well, I think the important part of that question is she said that, yeah, the only thing that kills…

Andrew: A silver…

Laura: …a werewolf is a silver bullet, so could he be killed by Avada Kedavra?

Eric: That’s such a – like, a weird question. It’s good, but it’s, like, it’s weird.

Kevin: Well, a werewolf…

Eric: Yeah.

Kevin: … can’t be killed, but Lupin in his human form…

Laura: Form probably could, yeah.

Kevin: Probably could.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: So, he’s not indestructible. [laughs]

Kevin: Right. It’s sort of like the benefit of being a werewolf, if there is one, you know?

Andrew: Yeah.

Kevin: When you are uncontrollable and you can’t help yourself…

Andrew: Yeah.

Kevin: That is the one time you’re invulnerable to the Killing Curse.

Eric: But I don’t think you’re ever invulnerable to the Death Curse. I mean, if you’re living and you’re…

Micah: We’ve talked about this before. Ben mentioned one time – well, if Hagrid got hit with a bunch of them, would it take, like, ten of them to kill him, or would he just take one, and that’s it?

Eric: Because of thicker skin or something, and I know a few of us were under the impression that…

Andrew: Being a half-giant. Yeah

Eric: … thick-skinned or not, one soul, one life force, but then everybody else was like, you know, dragon hide, or armor, or Avada Kedavra armor. Or… [laughs]

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: Right.

Eric: So, yeah, but I think when Jo was talking about this, it was kind of about the mythology of werewolf, because, you know, Pettigrew’s silver hand, obviously, and that was like, okay, so that’s kind of plot foreshadowing, or it could be; silver and werewolves, what about Peter Pettigrew killing Lupin? And JKR, I believe it was something, said that that won’t happen, as this voice mail mentions, but I don’t – but by saying that only a silver bullet can kill a werewolf, at the same time, it’s not really saying that only a silver bullet can kill a werewolf, as in Avada Kedavra can’t? If somebody went up and hit – what’s the bad werewolf’s name, that Draco threatens Borgin with that he knows?

Micah: Fenrir Greyback.

Eric: Gren – Greyback. Fenrir Greyback. Thank you, Micah. Fenrir Greyback, I mean, Dumbledore – well, Fenrir got the crud beat out of him that night on the tower, and if somebody AK’ed him, I’m pretty sure that would have worked.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: You know, human form or not, I think even in wolf form, the Avada Kedavra should kind of work.

Micah: I don’t see any silver bullets in Book Seven, sorry.

Laura: No, I don’t, either.

Eric: There aren’t any guns.

Kevin: I don’t, either.

Laura: I don’t know.

Eric: Were there ever any guns in the Harry Potter series?

Laura: I don’t know, but I think the point is that Jo words her answers very carefully, and if she’s saying the only thing that can kill a werewolf is a silver bullet…

Kevin: Yeah.

Laura: … it’s not out of the realm of possibility to say that werewolves can’t be killed by the Avada Kedavra curse.

Eric: It’s true. It’s just interesting, also, because Moody emphasized it in Goblet of Fire, and this is my final point on this, in Goblet of Fire, Moody said that Harry is the only survivor of the Death Curse, and plenty of people have said that. So, would that be not including werewolves? Only human survivor of the Death Curse, or only living being that survived the Death Curse? Because how important is Harry in this whole thing? Is he just the only human boy who survived it if werewolves are impervious?

Laura: I believe he’s…

Micah: Then there would be a mass transformation to like [laughs] all different types of creatures, so they don’t get killed.

Eric: Yeah, that’s…

Laura: I think that Moody said, “the only person known ever to have survived it.” So, yeah.

Eric: Huh.

Voicemail: Spending Time at Privet Drive

[Audio]: Hi, this is Jessica from Florida, and I have a general voicemail question. I was just wondering if there was a specific time limit to the amount of time that Harry has to spend at the Dursley’s for Dumbledore’s magic to keep its effect? JKR mentioned that the time he spent during Half-Blood Prince at the Dursley’s was the shortest time that he had ever spent there, which was two weeks, so I would think that he would spend two weeks there during Book Seven just to be safe. Additionally, do you even think that the magic still exists because of Dumbledore’s death? I love the show, and I’ve been wondering this for a while, so I’d love your input. Thanks, bye!

Laura: I don’t think that it was a spell that Dumbledore used…

Micah: Yeah.

Laura: I think that it’s magic that’s created…

Micah: I agree.

Laura: …because of Petunia’s connection to Lily, so I think it is still there.

Eric: Yeah, it was, it was a blood connection, even though Voldemort… [laughs] Sorry, even though Dumbledore performed that spell on Privet Drive, it should still hold, as long as the blood relation is there.

Laura: Yeah, as long as Petunia will take him in.

Eric: Or as long as Harry calls it home or whatever.

Laura: Yeah, exactly. So, and – yeah.

Andrew: With that said…

Laura: But, I mean…

Andrew: Well…

Laura: Theoretically,

Eric: Oh, good, that means that…

Laura: …it kind of answered your question: Could Harry be protected for another year if Petunia just invited him into the house for dinner? [laughs] Or does he actually have to stay there for a certain amount of time?

Micah: Well, he has to go back.

Andrew: Yeah, that’s – that’s what we’re…

Micah: There’s no question about it.

Laura: Well, yeah, of course.

Micah: He was pretty much told, wasn’t he?

Laura: But how much time? How long does he have to stay?

Eric: Well, until he turns a man, until he turns 17.

Andrew: No, no, no, no. We’re talking about how long does he have to go before he can go back to Hogwarts again.

Eric: Oh.

Andrew: How, how…

Laura: Like, how long does he have to stay with them…

Andrew: Like what he’s been doing over the past few summers?

Laura: …that summer, yeah.

Micah: Until the wedding, probably.

Eric: Until he turns 17. No, and…

Kevin: Yeah, and they get sort of like a – it’s a limitation to the protection, kind of?

Micah: I would say until the wedding.

Kevin: I mean…

Micah: That would be my guess.

Andrew: Why?

Eric: Not until the wedding, because…

Andrew: Why?

Eric: …he turns – Dumbledore says that as soon as he becomes of age, the protection will wear off, so…

Kevin: Right. It’s sort of like the family protection of a child. Once you are considered a man, you are now responsible for yourself and are responsible for protecting yourself.

Eric: The two weeks just has to deal with the fact that by the time Hogwarts is over and they go home, it’s actually mid or late June, or maybe even July, so that it’s only two weeks or so until his birthday. That’s what I thought it meant.

Micah: Do we know when they’re getting married, though? I mean it would seem like an easy way out, for him to leave. I think also that he might realize, “Hey, well, when this protection wears off, there’s a good chance that the relatives that I do still have alive, as much as I hate them, are going to be in danger.”

Eric: Yeah, that’s true. It’s very true. Once the protection is off, then people, then Voldemort can set foot in Privet Drive if he wanted to, and really turn things upside down. So, it makes sense, that yeah, that he would turn seventeen – but the voicemail’s asking when is the protection good for. I think that’s until his birthday.

Laura: You think it’s good until his birthday?

Micah: But…

Kevin: Right, same here.

Laura: I think that’s probably the best answer.

Eric: There’s no saying – yeah. There’s no saying he won’t leave Privet Drive only to go to wedding right away. I mean, that’s cool. But, I think it’s still his birthday.

Andrew: I think he’s going to want to be out. I cannot picture him sitting there while all this is going on.

Eric: Well, he did…

Andrew: I mean, he’s done it in the past books, I know. But in this situation, especially with Dumbledore dead.

Laura: Hey, that could be… Yeah, that could be… What if Harry decides that it’s not worth the protection to stay, and he leaves?

Eric: Whoa!

Laura: No, and then he’s without the protection. What if something extremely drastic happens and he refuses to stay there?

Andrew: Right. Because, he’s going to want to – the protection’s going to wear off, come his birthday, anyway, so why hold out?

Kevin: Why stay there…

Andrew: An extra month or two.

Kevin: Yeah. And what are they going to be expecting? I mean, Death Eaters, they know he’s chilling around the house…

Andrew: This Book Seven should just…

[Everyone laughs]

Kevin: Come his birthday, they are all going to on the door, at the door, you know?

Eric: Okay, seventeen, let’s all go.

Andrew: This Book Seven should just be called Order of the Phoenix 2 because there’s going to be so much stuff involving the Order.

Eric: Yeah.

Laura: Yeah, there will be. [laughs] There is going to be a lot of stuff involving the Order.

Andrew: It’s meant to be a joke.

Micah: [mockingly] Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

Kevin: [mockingly] Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

Andrew: It wasn’t well recepted.

Eric: Funny.

Andrew: It’s true, yeah it is.

Micah: I thought he has to stay there for at least one night. I thought that’s what he was told.

Eric: One night? Oh, one night after his birthday, do you mean? Or…

Micah: No, he has to return to Privet Drive for at least one night.

Laura: I thought that…

Eric: To seal the protection.

Andrew: What does that do? Renew your protection juices?

[Laura laughs]

Micah: Maybe there’s something we don’t know. Do you know what I mean? Maybe there’s something that’s going to happen as a result of him staying there.

Laura: Yeah, I thought that Dumbledore always said that so long as Harry could call it home.

Eric: Well, that was, for all intents and purposes, it was that long in Book Three, when he said it or something.

Andrew: But I think what we’re saying is, how long do you have to stay in the house to renew your…

Laura: Subscription to your protection.

Andrew: Whatever. Your subscription. Yeah, exactly.

Eric: I think basically what all was said was, “The protection will no longer be good once Harry’s on his own,” and along those same terms he said, “The power will still be good while you can call it home, until you come of age,” is basically the whole perspective of what I think was going on. I don’t know.

Andrew: Yeah. All right. Let’s move along.

Voicemail: Luna the Seer?

[Audio]: Hi MuggleCast! I was just wondering if I could get your opinion on whether you thought Luna Lovegood was a Seer of some sort, since she seems to always be coming up with these strange thoughts, and Professor Trelawney is pretty strange herself. So, maybe. Anyways, just wanted to hear what you think. Thanks, guys! Love the show! Pickles!

Laura: I don’t know. I mean, I think it’s possible, but at the same time…

Andrew: I think it’s a silly question.

Micah: No, no. She doesn’t have that prophetic name.

Laura: There are no stupid questions.

Micah: Not Cassandra or Sybil.

Andrew: She’s Loony Lovegood!

Eric: She’s weird!

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: Like Andrew’s saying. She’s a little weird…

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: She has little stray thoughts that her father probably implants in her brain, and…

Laura: Although I do have to say, to her credit, if she were, she wouldn’t run around bragging about it.

Eric: That’s true.

Andrew: Why not?

Laura: Because she’s not that kind of person.

Andrew: Oh yeah.

Laura: She’s not like Trelawney, she wouldn’t run around saying, “Oh, I have this ability, and I can do this and this and this,” because she’s just not that kind of character.

Eric: Yeah, she doesn’t preach. She doesn’t preach. She doesn’t throw the Rotfang conspiracy around in everyone’s faces, saying, “Fudge has got this Ministry guard of werewolves and we’re all going to die.” She doesn’t say it to people, she just believes it.

Voicemail: Do the Dursleys Have a Stable Marriage?

[Audio]: Hey guys, this is Paige from Maryland. Quick question for you: I wanted to know if you thought that Vernon and Petunia’s relationship was stable, or what you thought they were about, because apparently Petunia knows some stuff that Vernon doesn’t know, and they’re hiding stuff from each other. So, just wanted to know what you thought about that. Thanks! Love you all! Bye!

Andrew: Not to judge, but, don’t all…

[Laura laughs]

Laura: Andrew’s going to say, “Don’t all marriages…”

Andrew: Don’t all wedd – don’t all relationships – yeah. Isn’t there something hidden?

Eric: Marriages have secrets? Well, yeah. That kind of goes along with the first sentence of the book. You know? “Mr. and Mrs. Vernon Dursley were proud to say they were perfectly normal.” Unfortunately, being normal entails marital problems or secrets or some kind of ghosts in the closet. Who doesn’t have ghosts in the closet?

Kevin: Yeah. Skeleton in the closet, you mean?

Eric: [laughs] Did I say ghosts in the closet?

Laura: Yeah, but I think the point here is that Petunia knows much more about magic and the wizarding world than she is willing to let on to to Vernon.

Andrew: Well, maybe Vernon doesn’t want to know.

Eric: There’s part of that.

Laura: He seemed to want to know in Order of the Phoenix though.

Eric: Well, kind of. The Order of the Phoenix really accentuated Vernon’s situation, because here he has owls flying in and out, and Vernon’s here, and his wife told him a long time ago that she didn’t like her sister very much at all, or her husband, and Vernon accepted that. And then Harry shows up, and of course it’s this tie that Petunia doesn’t really like. And so, Vernon keeps quiet about it. He’s an obedient husband, and he grows or this dislike for magic grows on him to the point where he’s ripping up Harry’s letters from Hogwarts all on Petunia’s behalf. Then, all these owls start coming, his son is attacked, and he’s completely flipping out, which is exactly what Petunia would have wanted him to do, except at that very moment Petunia says, “This boy has to stay here.” And Vernon is in such a pickle.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: And I did just say pickle.

Kevin: Yes, you did.

Eric: But he’s in such a pickle because here he’s this guy who didn’t ask too many questions because he knew it would upset his wife. We’ve had the leisure, the privilege of having that insight into Vernon before. You know? He’s that kind of guy. He doesn’t want to upset his wife, but yet she knows so much more about him that she doesn’t let on, and it’s just this ongoing kind of thing where he won’t ask but he kind of should know because it’s just a matter of time before Petunia has to divulge it.

Andrew: Right.

Eric: With Harry’s situation, I just love that character aspect about the Dursleys. It’s easy to see them as comical people, but they are a real family, and something’s really going on with Vernon and Petunia. Is it a stable relationship? Probably not, but I don’t really see Vernon packing his bags and walking out and saying, “You don’t tell me nothing.” I mean…

Andrew: I think it’s just rocky now. They were obviously in love when they got married and Harry got in the way, but they knew they were going to pull through it eventually. It’s not going to be soon. Not until Book Seven is long gone.

Laura: Yeah, I agree…

Andrew: I don’t know.

Laura: I think that despite the fact that they’re not the world’s best people, I think that they do love each other.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: But obviously the crux is that Vernon doesn’t know, and he doesn’t really have the nerve to ask too much.

Andrew: I just think he’s afraid to know?

Laura: Yeah, and he doesn’t…

Eric: He is afraid.

Laura: …want to upset her, either. He said so in the first book, that he didn’t want to ask too many questions because it would tick her off.

Eric: Right. But this hatred for magic and different people…

Micah: Yeah, where does it come from?

Eric: …really is brought out in Petunia. Well, it’s brought on by Petunia to begin with, is what I think.

Laura: Yeah, because he loves Petunia, and he doesn’t want anything to upset her.

Eric: So, he adopts her morals, but now she’s kind of betraying that. She asked him to become this guy who says, [imitates Vernon] “Enough effing owls.” But, really, it’s kind of, you know? She’s now going back on that, and she has to kind of admit, “Yeah, the Dementoids guard Azkaban.” So…

Laura: Okay, so next one.

Voicemail: Did Dumbledore and Petunia Make an Unbreakable Vow?

[Audio]: Hi guys, this is Dara from Santa Monica, California. This is a very late response to Episode 57 about Aunt Petunia, but while I was listening to it in the car on the way home today, I was thinking of a theory that could possibly answer the, “What is Dudley’s fear?” question, and, “What it is about Aunt Petunia that we don’t know?” My theory is that Aunt Petunia maybe made the Unbreakable Vow with Dumbledore before Harry was left with the Dursleys. There is obviously many enchantments left over Privet Drive to ensure Harry’s safety until he is of age, but do you think that Aunt Petunia has made a vow to keep Harry there until he is 17? That would explain why she said he had to stay in the fifth book, when Vernon obviously wanted him to go away. But, [laughs] I can’t quite get over the fact that he did leave Privet drive in the third book, but since he was immediately taken in by the Ministry, maybe it doesn’t count. Maybe the Unbreakable Vow was told to Dudley, in which case his greatest fear is Harry leaving and his mother dying from breaking the Unbreakable Vow. [laughs] Tell me what you think. I know it’s far-fetched, but I couldn’t get it out of my head while listening to Episode 57. Thanks a lot, and I love your show! Pickles rock!

Laura: I think what she’s saying is that perhaps Dudley’s worst fear could be his mother dying as a result of breaking an Unbreakable Vow, or as a result of…

Micah: No.

Laura: …something to do with Harry.

Micah: No, no, no. Okay, he wasn’t even old enough to witness it.

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: If the vow took place. I mean, he wouldn’t even know what was going on.

Laura: No, I don’t think so either.

Micah: So, I don’t think there is any chance.

Eric: He’s an obnoxious boy, and…

Laura: I’m not sure it’s because of the vow. I think that his greatest fear could be something to do with…

Micah: His greatest fear is an empty fridge, all right?

[Eric and Laura Laugh]

Laura: I don’t know. I think, though… I mean, I think that – we were just talking about with Vernon and Petunia, they’re not the world’s greatest people, but they love each other. And I think that Dudley loves his parents, despite the fact that he’s a little twit. And…

[Micah laughs]

Laura: …I think that he realizes that especially after Order of the Phoenix that…

Micah: Hey, Laura, how do you feel about Dudley?

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: I think he’s great. But I think that he realizes especially after Order of the Phoenix that what Harry is tied up in is very dangerous, and that it could be a threat to his family. So, his worst fear could be…

Kevin: Yeah, I think so, too.

Laura: …Death Eaters or Dementors, or whatever, raining down on his house.

Eric: The greatest fear is the unknown, but there is the thing, if we’re talking about Dudley’s fear, there is the thing that Dumbledore alluded to about the mistreatment of Dudley, like, “I will not abuse your son any more than you have.” And Dudley went silent, and everybody else was sort of like, “Okay, what the heck is he talking about?”

Laura: I don’t think that he’s talking about that kind. I think he’s talking about abuse, like being spoiled.

Kevin: He’s talking about…

Eric: Oh.

Kevin: Right.

Eric: Kind of like Willy Wonka said to Augustus Goup’s parents. But would you guys say that – this whole vow thing, I just want to put an end to this, at least as far as my thoughts go. I think when the Dursleys agreed to take him in to begin with, when the Dursleys picked Harry up in his little blanket – plaid blanket, if we’re to believe the movies – and took him into that house. As soon as they took him into that household, I thought that that was sealing the deal.

Laura: Yes.

Eric: That was doing a vow. That was – I don’t think there was a separate occasion where Petunia met Dumbledore for tea, and they had to lock hands and do a vow. I think just – the letter probably would have explained, “By taking him into this house it is sealing this magical enchantment that I put on it. Try and give him enough of a home. I mean, otherwise the protection won’t work.”

Laura: And I think that Petunia realizes that despite the fact that she doesn’t want anything to do with this world, that her world could be in danger as a result of not taking Harry in.

Eric: Exactly, and there’s only…

Kevin: Yeah, that’s true.

Eric: …so much you can be ignorant, too, before you have to start understanding what’s going to affect you.

Micah: And Dumbledore would never put somebody else in a position where they would risk their own life, so to speak, in terms of a vow.

Laura: Yeah, I don’t see him forcing someone to take an Unbreakable Vow.

Eric: Yeah, that’s what we said to begin with, as far as in – you know, when Book Six first came out. Would he do a vow? Well, no, because he trusts people. Plus, it could be sealed in other magical enchantments.

Andrew: All right. Well, phew! That was a lot of voicemails, boys and girls and Micah.

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: So, like Dementors aren’t…

Kevin: Yes, it was.

Laura: They’re not human and they’re not animals, Micah is just Micah? He’s not…

Andrew: Micah. He’s his own species. I’d take that as a compliment. Micah?

Kevin: It’s true.

Micah: I do. I take it as a compliment.

Andrew: Oh, okay. Good.

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: He’s – you’re an anchorman. You’re not a man, you’re not a woman, you’re an anchorman. That’s what it comes down to.

[Micah laughs]

Update on Robin’s Challenge

Andrew: We have an update, now, on Robin’s Challenge, which we brought to you last week, from a mature listener, who e-mailed asking for other mature listeners to e-mail in and let us know that they listen.

Eric: Let’s differentiate between mature and older. I mean…

Andrew: Yeah, because we got an e-mail about this earlier today. They were like, “Well just because – the younger listeners aren’t immature!”

Laura: Yeah. [laughs]

Andrew: And I replied and said, “Well, mature doesn’t mean…”

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: “Robin doesn’t mean mature as in older, Robin means…” Oh, no, no, no. “Robin means…”

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: “… mature as in older, not as in immature.”

Eric: [laughs] Yeah. Basically adult fans.

Andrew: Right. Yes. Thank you. Okay. The first one comes from Terri, 53, of Saint Louis, Missouri. She writes:

“Hi Guys! I’m 53 years young and have been listening to MuggleCast from the first episode. I have three grownup sons, so I’m used to listening to video game talk. I’m not a gamer but listening about the new Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix game might make me try it! Great show.”

Eric: Wow!

Andrew: “I also listen to PotterCast and SnapeCast, but since you are the first podcast I ever listened to, you have a special place in my heart.”

Laura: Awww.

Eric: Awww.

Andrew: Well thank you, Terri. How nice of her. Lauren, 54, of Connecticut writes:

“Okay, I fess up, I am a MuggleCast fan who is of ‘a certain age’. I have been listening to you guys since the third or fourth show, and I get a lot of laughs and good feelings from it. I just think that with all the negative things that are going on in the world, it is encouraging to hear young people put their attention into putting out something that makes people feel good. It may be true that it is important not to put your head in the sand about the state of the world, but I am a firm believer in creating your universe, so I am completely in support of what you are doing.”

Eric: Oooh!

Andrew: “If more people were like some of the characters of Jo’s books, and courageously made efforts to resist the temptation to be cynical instead of making a difference with their words and actions, we will be a much better world for it. Go MuggleCast!”

Thank you, Lauren, for that. Another one, Diana, 41, of California writes:

“Hi, I am addicted to the show – Diana.”


Micah: She’s 41.

Andrew: That’s what I said.

Micah: I thought you said she was addicted to the show.

Laura: No, he said Diana, 41, of California.

Andrew: Oh, she put…she wrote…

Micah: Oh.

Andrew: “Hi, I am 41 and addicted to the show.”

Another one. Actually, I’m surprised we got this one. Albus Dumbledore, 150-ish…

Eric: Whoa.

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Andrew: Writes – er, from – he heard of us through word of mouth. Location: If I told you, Jo would really kill me.

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: Albus writes:

“I have a few confessions to make. I was moved by Robin’s letter on last week’s MuggleCast episode. I am a mature listener, at 150 years of age, and I am ‘coming out of the closet,’ if you will.”

That’s very nice of him.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: “Not only am I a very mature listener, but I am not really dead. If I were dead, I wouldn’t be able to e-mail you right now. I assure you, there is no Internet reception behind the veil. Yes. Well, that is all. Signed Albus.”

[Eric laughs]

Laura: I think we need to change our little captions on the main page, to say, “Appearance by Albus Dumbledore.”

Andrew: Yeah, well that, too. Yeah. [laughs] And who other, oh, Narcissa. The next one; Sylvia, 23, of Boston writes:

“Well, I’m not really ‘of a certain age,’ because I’m only 23, however my father and sister do fall into the category of ‘a certain age.’ My father is 66 and finds Harry Potter to be a pleasant enough read, that I was encouraged to buy him a copy of The Science of Harry Potter: How Magic Really Works. My sister’s 31, and she loves the books. I am the only one who is a MuggleCast listener, however, because I am the only one with the time to play with iTunes. My mother is, unfortunately, not a Harry Potter fan, because she is not a fan of the fantasy genre. Just isn’t her cup of tea.”

This last one comes from Emiras, 35, of the Fresh Meadows in New York. She writes:

“I am a 35-year-old Harry Potter and MuggleCast fan. I have been listening to the Podcast for about a year now. Like Robin, I enjoy hearing people exchange ideas and theories on a subject I hold near and dear. Between working full-time and being a mom to my own 11-year-old Weasley twin.”

“Twins,” I guess she meant.

“I don’t have much time to myself; I look forward to my weekly MuggleCast listening times – if it’s on the bus, on my way home from work, while cooking dinner for my family, or listening while in the bath after a long day, I look forward to each new episode. Some working moms have yoga, I’ve got Andrew, Ben, Kevin, Jamie, Micah and Laura to keep me sane. Keep up the great work, guys!”


[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Oh, oh, she missed you. Oh, wait, that… [laughs]

Eric: Ummm…

[Andrew and Laura continue to laugh]

Laura: Oh.

Andrew: Well, I will admit Eric sometimes drives us all insane.

“Keep up the great…”

Eric, I’m sure it was just a mistake.

Eric: [Grunts skeptically] Uhhh.

Andrew: “Keep up the great work, guys. Your enthusiasm is…”

Does she mean “contagious” or “contiguous”?

Eric: It’s “contiguous.” She’s cool.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: “Your enthusiasm is contiguous, and…”

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: “…inspiring to us older listeners.”

Eric: I got Andrew to say “contiguous.”

Andrew: “Thanks for the smiles.”

Eric’s Crackpot Theory of the Week

Andrew: We have a Crackpot Theory for everyone, this week.

Eric: Oh, crap. I mean, crack… pot.

Andrew: Eric Scull!

Eric: Uh.

Andrew: This one comes from Jacob, 24, of Texas:

“Percy Weasley will help Harry contact Sirius behind the Veil.”


Eric: Uh. Well, Percy – as a Ministry official – would have, maybe, some information regarding the methods of doing anything, I guess. I don’t know. The Unspeakables – Percy is not an Unspeakable, but he is an Undersecretary to the Minister or was, at one point. I – it’s not too unlikely that if Percy is, in fact, good, in fact, or is, in fact, willing to help Harry, that he would know where to go about obtaining any information, be it, well, more specifically, stuff that goes on in the Ministry. If he’s the Undersecretary to the Minister, and the Minister would need to write a note to the Unspeakables, Percy would probably dictate or Fudge would dictate, he would write it down, he would know where to take it. What I’m saying is Percy would have the information, because he works at the Ministry. Doesn’t mean he knows everything about the Veil, but it seems likely that Percy would be able to access any kind of data or findings on the Veil, that were up-to-date, if he should, perchance, want to find it.

Andrew: Okay, well, Jacob actually took a different approach. He went on Wikipedia, and he found the, not the definition, but the name origin, Micah, of “Percival,” and it derives from Old French. “Percival” in Old French, meaning, “pierce the veil.”

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: So, that’s what he’s thinking. That’s kind of interesting…

Eric: It’s because of… [laughs] I know why. It’s because Percy has such a pointy head, that when they throw him through the Veil [laughs] it’s going to pierce it. Sorry.

Andrew: Yeah, well. I guess so…

Eric: Because it comes to a point.

Andrew: And then two other points he brought up, was:

“That he works at the Ministry and, of course, could potentially have access, and he has to do something to make up with his family.”

Kevin: This is true.

Andrew: Okay, that’s Crackpot Theory of the Week.

McDonald’s Update

Quick McDonalds update; hopefully we got all of our submissions in. They were due by the end of November. It’s now – what? December 2nd?

Kevin: Yeah.

Micah: Yes, sir.

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: Third. Third.

Andrew: Third – December 3rd. Recording early in the week, folks. This is a different type of show for us, for once. But yeah, so I’ll be posting the McDonalds Challenge winners. Well, I’ll be posting everyone’s entries hopefully within the next week or so, and the winner will be receiving a free MuggleCast t-shirt.

Eric: And a book.

Andrew: So look forward to those.

Eric: And a book. And a book.

Andrew: Oh, and a copy of the book. When my sequel comes out, I’ll also sign that for you and get that off to you.

[Eric laughs]

Show Close

Andrew: Now, that does conclude MuggleCast, Episode 66.

[Closing music plays]

Andrew: Hope everyone’s enjoyed the show. If you would like to contact us, you could always dial 1-218-20-MAGIC in the United States. If you’re in the United Kingdom, you can dial 020-8144-0677. If in Australia, you can dial 02-8003-5668. You’d think after how many times now I’ve announced these, I actually would remember them. No. Still don’t remember them. You can also Skype the username “MuggleCast.” Leave a voicemail question. I think we’ve been through enough voicemails today to last us…

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: …another year. [laughs] At the rate we’ve been going.

Eric: I think we just caught up for the past 20 episodes we haven’t had them on. So…

Andrew: Yeah. And let us know what you thought of doing an all-voicemail show.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Maybe we’ll do them more often. Of course, we need the voicemails to supplement the episodes. And if you want to send us something, something, an actual item you can mail it to the MuggleCast PO Box. That’s PO Box 223, Moundridge, [stumbles] Kanja – K, K, K – Kanjas? Kansas, 67107. You can also contact us on the MuggleCast Feedback Form. Just go to Or, if you want to contact us directly, it’s our first name at staff dot mugglenet dot com.

So, once again, that concludes MuggleCast, Episode 66. I am Andrew Sims.

Kevin: I am Kevin Steck.

Eric: I am Eric Scull.

Laura: I’m Laura Thompson.

Micah: And I’m Micah Tannenbaum.

Andrew: Bye, bye.

Laura: Bye.

Micah: Bye. [laughs]

[Music concludes]


Andrew: MySpace, MySpace, MySpace, MySpace.

Eric: LiveJournal.

Laura: Oh, my God! MySpace.

Andrew: Don’t forget our MySpace.

Micah: Frappr.

Andrew: Become our friends, Frappr, Facebook – I’m going to make a song…

[Micah and Laura laugh]

Andrew: That’s going to be my next Wizard Rock single. It’s going to be promoting all of our outlets – our community outlets. [sings] MySpace, Facebook, YouTube, Frappr, Last.FM! Fanlisting Forums. MySpace, Facebook, YouTube, Frappr, Last.FM! Fanlisting Forums.

Eric: [joins in] It’s the Frappr Map! It’s the Frappr Map, it’s the Frappr Map…

Andrew: Not bad for a first try.

Eric: …Rap.

Andrew: I’ll have to demo that.

Eric: Frappr Map Rap! Frappr Map Rap!

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: I like that. I like that, Eric. I’m signing you on.

Eric: Sweet.

Andrew: Come over to my house and we’ll record a new song…

Eric: The Frappr Map Rap. Yeah!

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: When… [laughs] I like it, I like it. The YouTube…

Eric: Uh, sing, The YouTube Cube?

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: The MySpace…

Micah: Place.

Andrew and Eric: Place! Ah!

Andrew: Bye, bye.

Eric: I wonder what the outtakes are going to be.

[Laura and Eric laugh]

Andrew: It’s going to be an awesome new single.

Laura: Yeah, me too.

Micah: That’s all the news for this December 2nd, 2006… No, today’s the 3rd. That’s all the news for this December 3rd, 2006 edition of MuggleCast. Back to the show.


Written by: Micah, Adrienne, Amanda, Briana, Eloise, Jessica, Judy, Mandie, Margaret, Martina, Matt, Megan, Sarah, Shannon and Shelly

Transcript 065

MuggleCast 65 Transcript

Show Intro

Andrew: Just in time for the holidays, now offers gift cards, available as e-gift cards or a personalized mail card, GoDaddy gift cards can be used for domain names, hosting or anything else from the website. Additional discounts do not apply to the purchase of gift cards, but can be used when redeeming them. Plus, as a listener of MuggleCast, enter code “Ron” when you check out, and get your dot com domain name for just $6.95 a year. Some restrictions apply, see site for details. Get your piece of the internet today at .

[Intro music plays]

Andrew: Because you still haven’t ordered 11 more MuggleCast T-shirts – thank you Kate, 20, of Florida – this is MuggleCast Episode 65, for November 26, 2006.

[Music continues to play]

Jamie: Two men own yachts. One of them puts his yacht on a river of milk. The other man disapproves considerably, and maintains that such a substance could never keep the balance of the boat at optimum efficiency. The second man puts his yacht in a river of coffee. The first man discusses openly his lack of respect for this decision. Again, the two yacht owners voice their contempt for each other. This creates a very tense atmosphere and both men begin having a huge, huge public argument about their differences in terms of yachts. However, one of the men is a lot more accepting and apathetic than the other. In the end, he turns around and says, “Okay, seriously, let’s stop arguing. Whatever floats your boat.”

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Oh, boy. What a way to…

Ben: Jamie, I know why the fangirls love you so much.

Andrew: Oh, yeah, I know. What a way to start off our 65th …

[Ben laughs]

Andrew: …episode of MuggleCast.

Ben: How many?

Andrew: You know – 65th.

Ben: We’re ready to retire.

Andrew: We could…

Ben: Isn’t 65 the retirement age?

Andrew: We’re good. Yep, we’re done. This is it.

Ben: All right.

Jamie: We’re getting our special pensions, soon.

Andrew: We do have a good show for everyone this week. We got a special interview with the creators of the Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix videogame.

Ben: By the way who did that? Who’s in that interview?

Andrew: Me and [whispers] Kevin.

Ben: You didn’t invite me?

Andrew: It’s not that I didn’t invite you; you weren’t around.

Ben: When was it? When did you do it?

Andrew: It was at noon, two weeks ago.

Ben: Thanks. Thanks a lot, dude. Thanks for inviting me.

Andrew: Sorry. Why are you asking now? Why didn’t you… [laughs]

Jamie: Ben, surely you realized after he’d recorded it…

[Andrew laughs]

Jamie: …that you weren’t on it.

[Everyone laughs]

Ben: I didn’t know when he recorded it.

Andrew: My name is Andrew Sims.

Ben: My name is Benjamin Carl Schoen.

Jamie: My name is Jamie Matthew Lawrence.

Eric: My name is Eric James Matthew Padfoot Scull.

Micah: And I’m Micah Tannenbaum.

[Music continues to play]


Micah: Jason Isaacs recently spoke to The Observer about his upcoming projects, and, of course, a little about Harry Potter. He said:

“I spent two weeks having a wand fight with Helena Bonham-Carter (who plays
Bellatrix Lestrange) and Gary Oldman (who plays Sirius Black). Potter is a well-oiled machine now, whichever director is in charge, although it’s a slow process working with all those special effects. But it’s such a laugh – five weeks hanging out with Oldman and Maggie Smith (who plays Professor McGonagall) and Michael Gambon (who plays Professor Dumbledore), who’s a right mischievous devil.”

Speaking of good ole Lucius, Forbes magazine has released a list of the wealthiest fictional characters, and Lucius Malfoy came in at number 12, three places better than last year’s number 15 ranking. The site estimates his net worth to be $1.3 billion.

The Guardian is currently running a competition where entrants must guess the title of Book Sven, and the one judged to be the best and most innovative will win a JK Rowling-signed bookplate. The contest will close at midnight on December 6th.

Electronic Arts, maker of the entire Potter video game series, on Tuesday announced a new video game: Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix! The press release can be checked out over on

HBO on Demand is currently airing a special preview of the Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix movie. The preview runs for almost four minutes, and includes tons of new footage, including behind the scenes glimpses at the making of the movie.

Be sure to check for other various Order of the Phoenix videos, interviews, and photos, including some of the interior of the Ministry of Magic; Harry and Mr. Weasley attending the disciplinary hearing; the writing on Harry’s hand from Umbridge’s quill; Azkaban; concept art of Grawp; a Death Eater; and pics from the set of Snape’s storage room.

Dan Radcliffe will fly to Melbourne, Australia, for the Australian Film Institute awards. On December 7th, Daniel and some other celebrities will announce the winners in the Melbourne Exhibition Centre, with a national telecast on Channel Nine at 9:30 PM.

Finally, in a very special edition of the Leaky Mug released earlier this week, you can learn the details of how Grimmauld Place will appear in the fifth film, hear about the Potter set in general, and much more from Andrew’s special visit to the Order of the Phoenix set.

That’s all the news for this November 26, 2006 edition of MuggleCast. Back to the show.

Andrew: All right. Thank you, Micah.

Micah: You’re welcome.


Andrew: Micah, you know there’s a lot of hot stories this week; Order of the Phoenix

Micah: There were a lot of hot stories.

Andrew: There were. You want to tell us about them?

Micah: No, absolutely not.

Andrew: Good, because we’re actually…

[Ben laughs]

Andrew: …going to wait until later in the show.

Micah: See I knew that. I knew you were going to say that, so…

Andrew: [laughs] We’re going to get – we’re going to focus…

[Ben laughs]

Andrew: This show is basically about…

Ben: The movie.

Andrew:Order of the Phoenix and the inter – yeah, the movie in general. We have a couple of rebuttals, of course, but first we do want to talk about some rebuttals. Or, eh, [laughs] announcements. T-shirts. It’s coming to an end. I can’t even talk about them anymore because I’m just going to cry every time I think about them. January 1st is the last – no, December 31st is the last day that we can sell them. January 1st, we have to stop selling the MuggleCast t-shirts forever. So, make sure to purchase your own. I purchased four the other day, because I want to make sure that I stock up. It’s like Y2K. Right before the year 2000, everyone was afraid that all the technology was going to stop working, and everyone bought water and stuff just in case…

Ben: This is the same thing. You have to buy…

Andrew: They stocked up on extra food. It’s the same thing.

Ben: Yeah, you have to buy a million MuggleCast t-shirts.

Andrew: That’s what I’m saying. Exactly. Just in case they never come back, which they won’t. [laughs] Also, interesting little competition going on, on Podcast Alley right now. We beat Keith and Girl, and we’re right up…

Ben: Wooo!

Andrew: …there on top with our friends at PotterCast.

Ben: The what?

Jamie: At what, sorry? At what?

Ben: The who?

Andrew: It’s this other Harry Potter podcast…

Ben: Oh, I’ve never heard of them.

Andrew: …you guys ever hear of this?

Ben: No.

Andrew: So don’t forget to vote for us on Podcast Alley. Also, a book. We have a book now?

Ben: We have a book.

Andrew: You guys wrote a book?

Ben: Ladies and Gentlemen,’s What will happen in Harry Potter 7: Who Lives, Who Dies, Who Falls in Love and How the Adventure Finally Ends, by Ben Schoen, Emerson Spartz, Andy Gordon…

Andrew: That’s me.

Ben …Gretchen Stull, and Jamie Lawrence.

Jamie: That’s me, by the way. Just in case you were wondering

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Ben: It’s a very good book. You should go out and buy it. It’s in your local retailers now. For those of you in the Chicago area, Emerson and I will be holding an event at the Skokie, Illinois, Barnes and Noble, which is a Chicago suburb. Yeah, go out and see us; we’re going to be talking about the book. It might be a good idea to read it so you can ask us questions. You know, quiz us about it before – when we get there. Yeah, so come out and see us. It’ll be a good old time. We will post more information on the site and yeah, that’s about it. Remember you can pre-order at Alivan’s, which will help support MuggleCast, the site, everything, so go ahead and do that.

Andrew: So, Ben, as a fan of you, I know that I’m really going to want to do – get a picture with you to post on my MySpace and get your autograph. Will you be doing this at this event?

Ben: I guess. I guess I could oblige for you, Andrew.

Andrew: Awww, okay. Awesome…

Jamie: Fifty dollars you said last time, didn’t you, Ben?

Ben: Yeah. [laughs]

Jamie: That’s your standard charge.

Andrew: Okay. And then, also, we want to remind everyone that coming up with Episode 70, which will be the show we release on New Year’s Eve, I think, will be our MuggleCast Variety Show that is made up of your songs…

Ben: Your Song?

Andrew: Your segments – huh?

Ben: Your Song.

Andrew: Huh? Your Song, the one by Elton John

Ben: Yeah.

Andrew: Going to have that as the opening

Jamie: Ben, have you ever heard that song before?

Ben: You need me to sing it for you?

Andrew: No we don’t.

Ben: No, okay.

Andrew: We don’t need that. [laughs] The show will be made up of your song segments – your segments that were submitted back a few months ago, back in February, March or April, I think it was, when we had a “Create Your Own MuggleCast Segment” contest. So, we’re going to air some of those we never aired. And I have a big announcement, to come along with this announcement.

Ben: He’s coming out, folks. He’s coming out.

[Ben and Jamie laugh]

Andrew: I, Andrew Sims – it really is coming out, in a way.

[Ben laughs]

Andrew: I, Andrew Sims…

Jamie: He’s pregnant.

Andrew: …am pregnant. I, Andrew Sims, I am starting my own Wizard Rock Band.

Ben: Yeah, you told me this the other night. I was like, “What are you up to?” And he says, “Starting my own Wizard Rock Band.”

Jamie: What’s it going to be? “Andrew and the Sims”?

Andrew: I do not know. I don’t have a name, yet, for the band. I am working on my first single right now.

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: It has a good beat. It’s – I’ll give you a little preview. It’s about the podcasts that we do, and I really think it’s going to be a really big hit.

Ben: Are you singing, too?

Andrew: Ah, well, it’s more of a rap.

[Jamie and Micah laugh]

Jamie: Ummm…

Andrew: So, I’m really excited about it, and it’s going to – the single is going to make its premiere on Episode 70, our variety show. And I hope everyone enjoys it. You know, there’s bands out there like U2 and Elton John and I really think I’m right up there with them. So, we’ll see what the response is like. So, if you want to be a part of our Variety Show, please e-mail your song or segment to mugglecast at staff dot mugglenet dot com. We’re looking for MuggleCast remixes – fun stuff like that. Try to keep it short like five minutes, or so. Or it could be shorter than that. Two minutes, whatever. So, thanks for that…

Ben: [clears throat] Make it good.

Listener Rebuttal: Nature vs. Nature

Andrew: We have a rebuttal now.

Micah: All right, the first rebuttal comes from Rivah of Cleveland, Ohio. She says:

“It was very brave of you guys to take on the age old question of ‘Nature vs. Nurture,’ as it relates to the Harry Potter. After several semesters of Philosophy and Philosophy of Religion, I still can’t make up my mind. I do, however, think that if there is something innate in our nature, it will come out. Voldemort would most definitely have been troubled – maybe even psychotic – but his circumstances propensified his evil nature, not to mention the alluring power that magic added to the situation. There are many times he could’ve turned back and stopped, but his callous disregard for life leads me to believe that, no matter what, he would turn out evil. I have to say Laura was given the short end of the stick this week, with the world being so PC it’s hard to find a court case or argument where a person’s environment is not brought up as a factor. It is hard to argue that ‘black and white’, ‘good and evil’ side of ‘Nature vs. Nurture’ argument; kudos for doing such a good job, Laura. Jamie, I think, though, just enjoys playing “Devil’s Advocate”…”

Jamie: I do, very much.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: “…to any argument. Thank goodness he has the intellect and intelligence…”

Jamie: Wow.

Micah: “…not to mention an amazing accent that are extremely persuasive. Who knew listening to MuggleCast could be entertaining and intellectually stimulating…”

Jamie: Awww.

Micah: “…at the same time?”

[Eric laughs]

Ben: Well, you see, here’s the thing, guys: Jamie, actually, I don’t think – you really weren’t playing Devil’s Advocate, were you?

Jamie: Well, no. I was playing Devil’s – I didn’t believe all the stuff I was saying, but I do think that you…

[Micah and Andrew laugh]

Jamie: …can’t ignore, you know, nurture.. Oh, and adding one more thing to that, she says that the allure of magic is huge, and it’s true. For someone like him, who didn’t grow up in a magical environment – he thought he was a Muggle – the allure is even greater. I mean, if we learn magic now, we’d be drawn to it, more so than if it’s just a normal part of your life. So, that’s one more thing.

Eric: Well, guys, if…

Jamie: To the rebuttal, there.

Eric: …if we fail to be entertaining and intellectually stimulating the first 63 times…

Jamie: It’s not going to happen, yeah.

Eric: …we have in Episode 64.

[Andrew and Ben laugh]

Eric: So, that’s good news. I’m happy. So, that’s cool.

Andrew: Yeah, we got a lot of mixed feedback about that discussion last week. Some people really, really, really enjoyed it, and some people didn’t enjoy it.

Ben: Didn’t, yeah. [laughs]

Andrew: But that’s the way it goes every week, pretty much. So…

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: You know, we try to mix it up, and we can’t talk about…

Jamie: The Forbidden Forest every week.

Andrew: [adopts a funny voice] Horcruxes for the millionth…

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs] Yeah.

Ben: I think Episode 73 – 100 should be the Horcrux shows.

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Jamie: The Horcrux Series.

Ben: Yeah.

Andrew: Get people so sick of it…

Ben: Yeah.

Andrew: …they’ll never even e-mail us about it again. [laughs] Yeah.

Order of the Phoenix Developments

Andrew: Before we get to our interview, we are going to talk about the latest Order of the Phoenix developments, because there have been a lot of them. We talked about the trailer a little bit last week, teaser poster, but at that point we didn’t really have it in a good quality version online. Then we have…

Ben: Was it Yahoo who released the high-def version?

Andrew: Yes, they did.

Ben: And so what do you guys think of it? Has anything changed for you, now that you’ve had a chance to watch the trailer a lot of times?

Jamie: No, it’s the same, it’s just in higher definition.

[Micah laughs]

Ben: No, I know this. I know this, but there – you’ll pick more up – you’ll pick up more on the subtle nuances of things in the trailer…

Andrew: Right.

Ben: …the more times you see it, which is what I’m saying.

Andrew: Like when I first saw it on YouTube. The picture was kind of dark, and you couldn’t make out most of it. But then when you see it in high-def, you see every single shot.

Ben: Yeah.

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric and Micah’s Take on the Trailer

Andrew: And you could see Bellatrix, which was really cool. But, Eric and Micah, you guys weren’t on the show last week. What did you guys think of the trailer?

Eric: I liked it. It was completely – it was really short. It didn’t seem like 57 seconds when I first saw it in the theatre. I…

Andrew: That’s because it was 54.

Eric: Okay. Then that…

[Ben and Andrew laugh]

Eric: Okay, that’s solved. Okay, so it’s 54 seconds.

[Ben and Andrew laugh]

Eric: It didn’t seem like that. It flew by really fast. Most of the time was spent on the fading in of the lo – sorry, the logo. So, you know, Sirius Black looks nice.

Andrew: Oh.

Eric: I was just wanted to say Sirius Black looks very nice. “Incontrovertible;” that’s a new word for Michael Gambon.

[Andrew laughs]

Ben: [laughs] That’s a like a word – that is weird, when he says that…

Michael Gambon

Micah: I have to say, I have never been a fan of Michael Gambon, but he’s sort of grown on me since Goblet of Fire.

Ben: Hold on, though.

Micah: So, hopefully he does a better job.

Ben: I have a comment about him in the whole little scene where he says, [imitates Michael Gambon] “Evidence that Lord Voldemort is back is incontrovertible!” I don’t know, he just seems too hardcore for me. Like…

Jamie: But Dumbledore is hardcore.

Ben: I think Dumbledore is supposed to be about – he’s supposed to be stern, you know, but he’s not supposed to like, “Aargh!” angry-type Dumbledore. I think he’s just supposed to be more of a…

Jamie: No, he is, though. At some points he’s supposed to be angry. He’s supposed to be…

Ben: Not that angry. I think he’s…

Jamie: Of course he is! The power…

Ben: He’s supposed to be cool. He’s supposed to be cool, calm, and collected. That’s Dumbledore.

Eric: Yeah, there’s a dignified kind of “I will hurt you” type thing to Dumbledore. To clarify what I was saying earlier, it’s not when he says, “I am not weak.” Harry – there’s a scene, it’s like 26 minutes in or 26 seconds in. [laughs] Can’t remember which.

Ben: You saw a different trailer than I did. [laughs]

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: No, it’s the same trailer. Twenty-six seconds in, he’s – it’s right after Dumbledore says, “incontrovertible,” and goes to this other scene, kind of panoramic kind of shot of Harry, and he looks like he did in the second Triwizard task with a – or something. There’s something not right about the lighting of that scene, it just makes him look a little weird, like he doesn’t have any hair over his forehead, or anything. It’s kind of just a particularly weirdly dressed Harry. The rest of the trailer looks fine.

The Mysterious Frame

Andrew: Micah, what’d you think?

Micah: Overall, I liked it. I agreed with what Jamie said last week, I think, that that whole scene with Snape, either it’s going to go terribly, terribly right or terribly, terribly wrong. The shot from it, though, seemed as if they did a good job with it. But, actually, something I had a question about was I paused about 28 seconds in, and it’s right after or, actually, right before the whole scene with Harry and Snape, and it looks like Voldemort is shooting something out of his wand, and if you pause it, there’s a picture…

[Jamie and Ben laugh]

Micah: …of a woman in there. [laughs] No, it’s really weird, there’s a WB shield in the bottom right hand corner.

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: And there’s a picture of a woman, but it’s not a real woman, and I don’t know where exactly this is being shot.

Andrew: See, I mean… Hmmm. I wish I could see this, but – I mean, most of the visual effects aren’t done yet.

Jamie: Yeah.

Why O.W.L.s vs. Dobby in the Movie?

Andrew: And like the stuff for the trailer, I’m sure they’re going to tweak more. Like, I’ve said this last week: the pendulum behind Umbridge looks terribly fake. Now here’s my thing – I thought about this earlier today. The O.W.L.s are obviously in, because of what we see in the trailer. I assume that still means they’re in. I mean, they could still cut them. Now, if something like that is in, that doesn’t seem like a very big plot that really deserves a spot in the movie, and it seems like Dobby would be a more welcomed plot.

Jamie: Addition?

Andrew: Yeah, rather than the O.W.L.s.

Ben: But the house elves are going to be much more costly.

Jamie: Well, I don’t know. It’s an expensive thing, the O.W.L.s. They’ve got to do all that stuff in front of Professor Tofty, and you have to, you know…

Ben: Right, but I doubt it’s – but it’s not as expensive. When, I think it was Newell, said at the premiere last November, which I was at. [laughs] No, I’m just kidding.

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Ben: Newell said at the premiere that – what exactly did he say? He said that every time the house elves step on screen, it’s literally hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Andrew: Oh, right, yeah.

Ben: So that’s probably why. I mean, you know, they only have a $320 million budget. I mean there’s…

Jamie: Yeah, exactly. It must be tough.

Ben: They can’t…

Micah: [laughs] With Goblet of Fire, you have a whole story line there which includes, was it Winky, at the beginning? And I think they really change the whole storyline around…

Jamie: Yeah.

Micah: …just so she didn’t have to be in there.

Jamie: Oh, yeah they did.

Micah: I don’t know if adding Dobby in, really, here, would be that much of a big deal for them, whereas before, in Goblet of Fire it would cost quite a lot of money.

Ben: Wasn’t Winky, Winky was the whole reason, right?

Eric: Mhm.

Micah: Yeah, and they completely cut her out.

Ben: That’s screwed up.

Jamie: But it is expensive.

Andrew: I mean, Kreacher is definitely in it, so they’re not completely cutting out house elves.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: It’s not like they’re – you know, that department is shut down for this film. [laughs]

Eric: That was – my problem with it is, as I mentioned before, is the tie-ins. The very strict, limited tie-ins between movies that I’d like to see, such as Dobby coming back. Just because, every director’s done their own thing, the only thing that’s stayed the same is the actors, pretty much. You know? So, I want to see house elves again, because then it would kind of, I don’t know, link the films together. I don’t know if they’re supposed to be linked, but they say Harry Potter One and Harry Potter Two and Year Three in my DVD collection. So, you know?

Andrew: I…[laughs] what?

Micah: What?

Ben: Yeah, that made no sense.

Eric: The DVDs! The movies!

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: They – there’s no connection between the films. Except for the actors, everything else changes.

Ben: Well, that’s because the new director, you know?

Andrew: I mean, they do have to change – yeah.

Eric: Well, yeah.

Jamie: That’s because it’s a different film. [laughs]

Ben: Yeah, that, too.

Eric: Well, I understand, but each book has links back and forth, and they cut out all the ties to previous films. It’s like, “Okay, Chris Columbus did the Dobby thing, therefore we can never do the Dobby thing again.”

Jamie: Well, actually, if you read, sort of, Prisoner of Azkaban, it’ll say like they’ll be talking about Quidditch and Jo will say, “Quidditch is a game, you know, played by blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, with blah, blah, blah, balls,” stuff like that. And she’ll say that in the third book, but then come Book Four, Book Five, and Book Six, she won’t offer, sort of, you know, previous bits of information to refresh your memory. I think she’s just assuming that after you get that far, you’re not going to need to remember what Quidditch is and stuff like that.

Andrew: Yeah. I mean, she still makes a couple references.

Jamie: Oh, yeah, she does.

Ben: She does do some refreshing a bit, like in the early chapters especially.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

HBO On Demand: Umbridge

Ben: Now, what about the HBO on Demand? That thing was pretty cool.

Andrew: That was intense.

Jamie: Yeah, that was very good.

Ben: What are your guys’ thoughts on it?

Andrew: It was – what was that, like three minutes long? It was a good three-minute look at behind-the-scenes filming, and some interviews with the actors. I really liked it. People, the fans loved it.

Jamie: Imelda Staunton’s acting, as well, it was cringe-worthy in a good way. It was, you know, exactly how Umbridge is supposed to act, I think. The sweet…

Ben: She’s not fat enough.

Jamie: No, no, you’re right. She isn’t. But the sort of sweetness and disgusting, you know, pleasure in her voice came out.

Ben: Mix.

Jamie: Yeah, it’s awfully good, basically.

Eric: Bittersweet.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: I definitely think she did a good job.

HBO On Demand: Dan’s Portrayal as a Leader

Ben: But something that kind of irked me was – it didn’t really irk me – but, to me, Dan Radcliffe, I mean, he does a good job as Harry, but he just doesn’t seem to personify what a leader is. You know what I mean?

[Eric laughs]

Ben: He doesn’t seem to, like, I couldn’t see him leading a bunch of his peers. Daniel Radcliffe, I know Harry can. But I couldn’t see Daniel Radcliffe really get into that role. I don’t know. What about you, what do you guys think?

Andrew: Are you referring to something in the HBO video?

Ben: Yeah. When he was…

Andrew: When he was teaching Neville?

Ben: They start talking about him. They start talking about him teaching. You know?

Andrew: Yeah, and there is…

Ben: I was just thinking about how they’re going to do that because he doesn’t seem like the leader type.

Eric: Are you saying he is kind of like a one-sided actor where is better at portraying the whole “everybody hates me” kind of Harry?

Ben: Yeah, yeah.

Eric: As opposed to the – yeah. I kind of see where you come up with that.

Ben: So, I just don’t know how well he is going to be able to portray the “go get ’em” Harry.

Eric: If he does it in a defiant kind of way, like as seen in the trailer where he’s like, “Voldemort is trying to get me, I must stop him.” If he portrays it kind of like in Chamber of Secrets, the trailer, when Lucius Malfoy says that thing about Harry always being around to save the day, he says, “Don’t worry. I will be.”

Ben: Kind of a lame line, but yeah. [laughs]

Eric: That kind of defiant kind of thing. [laughs] He’s kind of got that going for him. I think we just have to see more.

Ben: I don’t know. In the trailer, part of it seems sort of lame. When he says, [does Harry impression] “If Voldemort’s organizing an army, let’s fight” or whatever. [laughs]

Eric: Yeah. “Let’s fight.” That’s what I was talking about. He says, “Let’s fight” and…

Ben: Well, I don’t know. I was just thinking like, occasionally it seems like every movie, it seems, like, they give him a line that is just completely ridiculous and totally lame. Like in Goblet of Fire it was, [Harry impression] “I love magic.” You know? [laughs]

Eric: No! That was not a ridiculous line. That was a great line.

Micah: Yes it was.

Jamie: Indeed. It was atrocious.

Andrew: Wait, he says what? “I love magic?”

Micah: When he walks into the tent…

Ben: When he walks into the tent and sees how big it is.

Jamie: Atrocious.

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: Oh, yeah. [laughs]

Ben: He says, [Harry impression] “I love magic.”

Andrew: Yeah. Do you Harry? Do you?

Jamie: How many buckets did you guys use after that?

Ben: [laughs] Yeah.

Jamie: It was atrocious.

Andrew: Yeah. But that stood out for me in this HBO special where he’s showing Neville how to cast some spell. He just seemed – it stood out because it just seemed different for him. It didn’t seem like his normal portrayal of Harry.

Jamie: But it is different, of course. Him leading is a new thing for him.

Andrew: Oh it is.

Jamie: He couldn’t believe it when they wanted him to teach them, so it’s like – and it says in the book that he is – that it was extremely weird to see people doing what he says and following his orders. So, it’s kind of good if Dan isn’t really too sure how to portray him…

Ben: I guess so.

Jamie: …because it goes into the character, which is a good thing.

HBO On Demand: Matthew Lewis as Neville

Ben: Well. Okay, is it just me or is Matt Lewis really, really good?

Jamie: He is good.

Ben: I think he fits what I’ve always seen as Neville, you know?

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: He really fits that character really well.

Andrew: He definitely pulls off the nervous Neville that is always in the books.

Jamie: Yeah.

Ben: Mhm.

Eric: And then some. He has to do it…

Ben: Well, especially in Goblet of Fire. Based off how he did in Goblet of Fire, I mean, most people are expecting pretty great things in Order of the Phoenix.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah.

Jamie: Yeah.

Tangent: Dan in Equus

Andrew: And back to Dan, I think he has got enough experience under his belt to change up his – how he’s portraying Harry with those scenes, the Dumbledore’s Army scenes.

Jamie: Exactly, yeah.

Ben: So, has he had his West End debut yet? The Equus?

Jamie: No, he hasn’t.

Andrew: That’s February, I think.

Ben: That’s February? Jamie, are you going to go see?

Jamie: I probably will go and see it, to be honest.

Andrew: I was telling Jamie we should have him buy a ticket…

Ben: And cover it for us.

Andrew: …and charge it to MuggleCast, and then – yeah, exactly. Do a review.

Jamie: I’ll do that. Will you pay for my hotel and spending money as well?

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Andrew: No. How much are tickets? They’re like $100 right, I think?

Jamie: For good seats, yeah.

OOTP Set Pictures: Azkaban

Andrew: We also saw a lot of set pictures this week. Azkaban Prison, I think that was probably one of the biggest ones. I was reading through the comments on MuggleNet, people not too happy about Azkaban and where it’s placed. Because some people are upset that WB is really changing things up, with Azkaban specifically, because it is on a waterfall on a cliff.

Jamie: Yeah, I noticed. The thing is…

Ben: That’s kind of strange.

Jamie: …that is the kind of thing where the movies, they have the creative license to change stuff. But it just seems so much easier to put it on a rock where it will A) still look awesome and they know they’ll please people; whereas if they put it on a waterfall they risk alienating some people and it will look awesome, but they sort of are losing by doing it, you know?

Micah: But why? Why does that bother people?

Andrew: Because it’s different from the books.

Micah: It seems like such a small thing.

Andrew: People are really hardcore about some things staying true to the books.

Micah: Well, I mean. But then going back to Goblet of Fire they completely rewrote the entire plot in order to fit it in two-and-a-half hours.

Andrew: Yeah.

Jamie: Yeah.

Ben: Yeah, and if you’re worried about…

Micah: I see something like Prisoner, like Azkaban itself being on a waterfall, I don’t see that as big of a deal.

Eric: It just lies in what people want to see is almost like the – one of the benefits of the movies is to, and movies don’t replace what your book eye is seeing, but they are a nice visual, I don’t want to say assurance, but movies are fun to watch and you get to see your favorite parts of the books on the silver screen or whatever. And that’s what I think a lot of people like. Now, the thing with rewriting Goblet of Fire. I mean, yeah, it would have been cool to see Winky, but you still got to see the tasks. The way they rewrote it was a visually pleasing film. Not just in general, but people who had seen all the stuff in their eyes, you know, in their mind’s eye while reading the books. Now, the thing with Azkaban, you want to be terrified of it. You want to imagine what it would be like languishing there for 15 or 16 years before being let out and stuff. So this whole waterfall thing is actually a big deal.

Andrew: I think they’re trying to make it look like there is no way of escaping.

Jamie: Yeah, exactly. That’s exactly what they’re trying to make.

Andrew: They’re ignoring the fans. Yeah.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: It’s just a terrible place. There’s no way you can get out.

Jamie: The problem with it is that place is actually inescapable. And if it’s on an island, then you can swim across. If you fall out of that thing onto the waterfall and you go all the way down, it looks like a damn big waterfall, you’re going to die. So, there is the problem of Sirius’ escape from there. Dogs can swim, but they can’t survive waterfall falls.

Ben: [laughs] Yeah, that’s true.

Andrew: Right.

Eric: So, there’s no spell that could allow a buffer of some kind? Like a raft?

Micah: Lassie did though.

Ben: Well, he was so weak. He probably couldn’t cast a spell.

[Andrew laughs]

Jamie: Oh, I’m sure there is, but it’s still very difficult.

Ben: Something interesting about – you know, like this movie is not going to be a movie for the purists. Because think about it logically.

Jamie: No, it’s not.

Ben: Movie 1, a 308 page book, is put into a two-and-a-half hour movie. Movie 4, a 735 page book, is put into a two-and-a-half hour movie. An 870 page book, they’re going to put it into a two-and-a half-hour movie. So you realize that they are just going to have to keep cutting stuff.

Jamie: Yeah, yeah.

Ben: So, if that upsets you, don’t even bother seeing the movie.

[Andrew laughs]

Ben: Because you’re going to walk out and be absolutely infuriated.

Andrew: He…

Micah: But Andrew, didn’t you say that Azkaban…

Andrew: What?

Micah: …Was just in the paper? Isn’t it just shown in the paper?

Andrew: Well, they have a newspaper that that picture appears in. I don’t know for sure if it
actually appears in the film or not.

Jamie: They might just do a fly-by.

Andrew: Yeah, I mean, the set, not the set, the fly-by – Azkaban itself was actually designed by Stewart Craig, so, I mean, they’ve got to use it for something worthy of his time.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: But, anyway, I mean, it would just seem like a waste if they just use it on a newspaper cover.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: Because that’s where it was.

OOTP Set Photos: Harry’s Hand

Andrew: Here’s another thing that’s been getting fans; a picture got out of Dan’s, well, on Harry’s hand, where he’s inscribing “I will not break rules.”

Jamie: Oh, oh, oh.

Micah: Was that a gorilla?

[Andrew, Eric and Micah laugh]

Andrew: Yeah, is there a gorilla in here?

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: When in the books it says “I must not tell lies.” You know what’s up with this, Jamie?

Jamie: Well, I was thinking about this, actually, and there’s a huge difference between, “I must not break the rules” and “I must not tell lies.” Because, obviously, if it says, “I must not tell lies,” it’s like a double lie because he’s lying that he’s told lies. You know? And also, it just sort of shows, it sort of, has a sort of Matilda-esque type thing in that it shows that adults are always right if he puts “I must not tell lies” that because he’s a child, he’s automatically wrong. And throughout the books there’s always been this whole “age is foolish if it underestimates youth” and that kind of thing. So, saying “I must not break the rules” doesn’t automatically mean he’s wrong and it comes back to what we were saying last week about incorrect and correct versus wrong and right and that if he says “I must not tell lies,” then that means that he’s wrong and incorrect, but if he says “I must not break the rules” then he’s only incorrect in so far that he’s broken the rules of the adults which aren’t automatically right, they’re just rules that have been put up by them.

Andrew: But, you really think that’s why they changed…

Jamie: Oh, completely. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. I really do think so.

Andrew: It just seems like such an easy thing to stay true to the books, but, then again, that is an interesting explanation.

Jamie: But, the movies are completely different to the books in that the books, you know, it’s Jo’s creative license and even though her editors can tell her, “Don’t put this in because I really don’t think you should. It’s a bad idea,” Warner Brothers has – I don’t want to say a bigger audience, but a more widespread audience and if one parent talks to another parent and says, “Don’t take your child here because it does something wrong,” then like that. So, they have to stay extremely politically correct and having “I must not tell lies” is that kind of thing and it’s easier for them to change it just to make sure then to stay true to the books. And also, talking about Azkaban, you know, they aren’t supremely concerned if they don’t stay completely true to the books so I think this is just one of those things where they’ve been advised to do it. So, you know?

Andrew: That is a very interesting take on that.

Jamie: Well, thank you.

Ben: I have a question. What do you guys think – like you know how, Jamie you were talking about like the editing stuff – like JK Rowling’s creative license?

Jamie: Yeah.

Ben: Do you think if the – like her editors come back to her and they say, “We don’t think you should put this in.” Right? Do you think she has the final say since she’s been doing this so long?

Andrew: Yeah.

Jamie: I think she has – she does but she’s not stupid and people know the market better than she does. She knows Harry Potter the best, but people know the children’s market and what people accept and won’t accept more than her. So, if somebody says, “You really cannot put this in, don’t do it,” I bet she listens more than we’d think.

Micah: The one thing I was going to say about the hands though, I think the fans’ biggest concern was one of the underlying themes of Order of the Phoenix was that nobody believed what Harry had to say and so the whole “I will not tell lies” had a bigger implication for the storyline than just writing on his hand “I will not break the rules.”

Jamie: That is very true, yeah.

Eric: But that’s also, I guess the expense of making a movie from a book. They have to cut some of the inner underlying themes and “I must not tell lies” might sound cool, but I don’t think, given the movie, given the scenes in the movie which we haven’t seen yet, I don’t think that it would be able to be conveyed as meaning the same thing. “I must not tell lies” is obviously very, very heavily political, very heavily Umbridge, and very heavily under, you know, with that theme of everybody not believing Harry. “I will not break rules” is kind of the substitute line where it’s like, okay we’re making a movie, it’s much shorter, we have a lot less time to show this in-depth political, yeah, dictatorship, that’s it.

Micah: But when you think of that, I think of This Simpsons and Bart Simpson writing on the board “I will not break the rules” at the beginning of every show.

Eric: Yeah, yeah. And sometimes it changes. That’s very funny.

OOTP Set Photos: Grawp

Andrew: Yeah. So, Grawp. Ben, what do you think of Grawp?

Ben: I think he looks pretty cool. I mean, we haven’t heard him speak or anything – or, try to speak, but I don’t know. I think it will be alright. I don’t have any like special comments on it, like anything that really makes me mad or anything.

Andrew: I think they did a good job making him – putting him into the movie – like, visually, how he looks.

Eric: There is a storyboard image right here of Grawp in comparison in size to Harry and Hagrid…

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: And I think that’s actually quite cool. It will be interesting how they fit him into the forest.

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah.

Eric: I mean, not that the forest is small, I mean, by any purposes, it’s not. But, it will just be really interesting, especially because he’s like, I don’t know, his feet are huge and I don’t know. It will be cool. It will be fun to see. Then there’s also this kind of, I don’t want to say it’s wax because it’s not, some of the material just like model. Is that an actual statue of Grawp here that we’re looking at?

Andrew: It’s a model, yeah. I mean…

Eric: Kind of like, yeah…

Andrew: I was kind of wondering what they were going to do with it, because…

Eric: Well, I think…

Andrew: He’s going to be computer-animated anyways, so…

Micah: EBay.

Eric: Well, a lot of… [laughs] EBay, yeah. Besides EBay or charities, they usually build statue models to get motion-capture animation like they have to build a full scale model so that they can actually then scan it three-dimensionally into the computer.

Andrew: Oh, right, right, right.

Eric: So, they have to do that. But I was going to say – and I think I did say over top of what Ben was going to say that – he looks like the Hulk with a beer belly in this particular statue.

Andrew: Good point.

Micah: Do we actually see a scene in HBO with Hagrid pretending to talk to him?

Andrew: Yeah, there was one shot of Hagrid, yeah. In the forest, yeah.

Micah: But there wasn’t any image of Grawp there?

Andrew: No, I don’t think so, yeah.

HBO On Demand: Evanna Lynch as Luna

Andrew: Jumping back to the HBO special, we got our first look at Evanna performing. It was two words, but she goes [in a high-pitched voice] “They’re Thestrals!” I can’t even do it, her voice is so high. It’s “They’re Thestrals!”

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: What do you…

Micah: Perhaps I should’ve used my chipmunk voice. [laughs]

Andrew: What do you guys think of Evanna? And keep in mind, keep it good, because she listens to the show.

Eric: I think it’s good. I think we obviously need to see a lot more of her, but everybody who was on the set – everybody who’s seen her – said she is Luna. So, I think I’m going to continue believing them. A lot of people saw this and they’re giving up all hope, and saying “That’s not my Luna at all!” I think some of the things with – even Alan Rickman as Snape and things – we had to give a little bit of allowances of our own minds, the very personal, what we see as their character, and just give into it and see it’s a little bit different but still the same character in the movies being portrayed.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: And two words. Why is everybody basing everything on Evanna on two words? I don’t think that’s fair at all. I think we need to see a lot more, and I’m interested to see a lot more.

Andrew: She actually told me that whenever we talk about her on the podcast, she actually fast forwards through it [laughs] because she can’t stand hearing about herself.

Micah: Well then, let’s continue.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Let’s continue that then.

Micah: Jo said she was perfect, so if Jo thinks that she’s perfect then…

Andrew: Yeah

Eric: Oh yeah.

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: …that’s pretty much the final decision.

Andrew: Yep.

Interview: Order of the Phoenix Video Game

Andrew: All right, so we are going to play a special interview now that Kevin and I conducted with two producers of the Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix video game. Here it is now.

Andrew: Hi everyone. I’m now joined with Kevin.

Kevin: Hello.

Andrew: Kevin, we haven’t seen you in awhile.

Kevin: Yeah, no kidding.

Andrew: It’s good to hear from you again, and we’re here with two very special people from EA.
Their names are Justin and Matt. Hey guys.

Justin and Matt: Hi!

Andrew: You guys work on the Order of the Phoenix video game at Electronic Arts over in London, correct?

Justin: That’s right. We have the pleasure of working on the Harry Potter front, and we have done since Goblet of Fire.

Matt: Yeah, and then for me I work on the platform since Prisoner of Azkaban.

Justin: And I worked on the GPA Prisoner of Azkaban title.

Matt: Yeah, well, I worked on Quidditch!

[Everyone laughs]

Justin: Well, so did I!

Andrew: Everyone’s impressed. Everyone’s impressed. [laughs]

[Justin and Matt laugh]

Matt: Yeah, we work on Harry Potter which is obviously fantastic.

Andrew: Yeah. Can you tell us about your jobs at EA, what exactly you guys do with the games?

Justin: Sure, yeah. I’m producer on the title, and that kind of means what I try and do is find out what people want from the game, and find out from fans like yourselves, find out from the kids buying the game, what it is they are after, and try and make sure the designs, make sure the audio and the art and everything really fits what people are after.

Matt: My role on the project is primarily to put the design together and work on, you know, what it is you actually do within the game and work on making sure we have all the Harry Potter fiction in there and really deliver that Harry Potter experience that I as a fan want to get to, and I know you guys do.

Andrew: Yes.

Kevin: Now how long have you guys been working at EA?

Justin: I’ve been working at EA probably since 2000, so nearly six or so years. And I’ve been a producer practically all that time.

Matt: Yeah, I’ve been here – my goodness – seven-and-a-half years and most of that time I’ve been a game director, which is essentially running the design for the projects.

Andrew: Okay. Now, Matt, was it you that was on the Order of the Phoenix set in late September?

Matt: It was, it was.

Andrew: Next question I got for you [laughs] well, I know your answer, which is: You guys big fans of the books and movies? I know you are.

Justin: Yeah, absolutely. I don’t think we could do this job if we weren’t. I mean, we have to live the fiction day-by-day, year-on-year. I mean Matt absolutely tralls the fiction day-by-day. I think he’s seen the movies virtually every day this year.

Andrew: Uh huh.

[Everyone laughs]

Justin: The people on the scene, including the artists come to me and ask me all sorts of obscure questions. Like, I’ve been trying to build the broom cupboard that Harry drags Crabbe and Goyle into in Chamber of Secrets and I did find which door it is in the Entrance Hall that the broom cupboard is in.

[Andrew and Kevin laugh]

Justin: Yeah, I watch rather too much.

Andrew: Yeah, well, it’s great that there’s dedicated fans of the books and the movies working on this game. I know the fans really appreciate that.

Justin: Absolutely, with this, and I think the directions for this game, above all the others we’ve done, is really, really to get back to the book and the movies have been just as pure to them as possible. I know Matt for sure has been through every member of the DA to find their whole back stories, whether there’s three lines written about them in the book, or whether there’s 25, or whole books written about them. It’s just finding anything we can about these guys.

Andrew: Right.

Matt: Trying to make game play out of that rather then and invent something first, then kind of fit the fiction around it. We’re starting with the fiction first and then inventing game play around that.

Andrew: Mhm. I see. Yeah, cool.

Justin: It completely is an approach. I mean, it’s a lot more detail and it does require the art guys, our designers and spending loads of time on the books and movies to get the information we need.

Andrew: Right.

Justin: Just so we can get the things that you guys will suddenly spot in the game as you’re going through and go “Oh, they put that in.”

Andrew: Yeah.

Justin: That’s what we want to get. We want to get that kind of response this year.

Andrew: Yeah.

Matt: Absolutely. That direction for the design theme is been very much, you know? This year we’re not building a game and putting “Harry Potter” on it. It’s about taking Harry Potter and getting a game from it.

Andrew: Mhm.

Matt: Fiction 100% leads the game.

Andrew: All right.

Kevin: That’s great.

Andrew: We saw a preview of the video game on the set back in late September, and it really – the things you guys have done with the game in comparison to other ones, a big step forward.

Justin: You ought to see it, man. You ought to see the Grand Staircase.

Andrew: [laughs] Ah, I can imagine. Well, speaking of…

Justin: Yeah, and, first of all, thanks very much for all the feedback. That’s fantastic because I was so nervous standing in front of the fans.

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]

Justin: Like “Oh my God, what are these guys going to think?”

[Andrew and Kevin laugh]

Justin: You guys are wonderful again, so great feedback on that day and we’ve been getting more as we’ve gone on. But honestly, the new version…

[Andrew and Kevin laugh]

Justin: One of your questions leads into what we’re most proud of. So many things this time around, and the Grand Staircase went in a few days ago and – oh my goodness.

Andrew: Oh wow!

Matt: I hope you’re going to be blown away by it.

Andrew: Yeah, I know we will. Now, a few of our listeners had called in a few weeks ago with some questions for you guys, and we have them ready for you guys now.

Matt: Cool.

Andrew: So, Kevin?

Kevin: Sure. I am just going to read the first question for you guys. How does the release of the Wii-mote, as they are calling it, going to affect the game play aspects of the game, and how are these new Wii specific features going to impact the other consoles?

Justin: So, what we’ve done this year actually, we’ve kind of pre-empted the Wii on all platforms. We’ve gone for a new way of casting and selecting magic this year. I’m not going to talk too much about it in detail, but suffice it to say we don’t want this kind of menu driven selection or the context sensitive selection of Goblet of Fire that we had. We’re really looking to have the player cast magic, and obviously with the Wii we’ve got a real opportunity with the Wii-mote because it can behave just like a wand. So, we really want to pursue putting you, and your game character, with this wand in your hand to be able to cast magic that way. So the game will, you know, be viewed from a different perspective and it will play slightly differently based on the fact that you will be able to use your Wii-mote as a wand. And I say, I’m not going to go into too many details now because we’re still refining those details, but definitely very excited about doing Harry Potter on Wii.

Andrew: Cool. Now, next question we have here: What part of any of the Harry Potter games are you guys, the designers, most proud of?

Matt: I think the way we’ve dealt with this project; the way we’re sort of taking it from the fan’s perspective and working with the fiction first, and putting the design in second is, you know, probably the biggest single thing we could choose as designers to be proud of, because it’s incredibly hard to do it that way round. I mean, looking at something like the Invisibility Cloak, you can imagine, you know, Invisibility Cloak absolutely, as a fan, I want to have a go in the Invisibility Cloak. It’s so awesome!

[Andrew laughs]

Matt: But as a designer, you know, we can put the ability to wander around the castle and have people not be able to see them. It presents a whole bunch of new challenges, so I think the approach is something I’m hugely proud of, but then there’s so many things. I mean, the Gryffindor common room, which you guys saw, I’m so proud of that, because it’s one of the things, that you know, the team worked so hard to get done and taking something like the film set and transforming it into a game, it requires a lot of thought process and we have to approach it quite differently than you would approach a standard game. I think what we’re doing with this year and taking the fiction and how we’re translating that is probably one of the things that I’m most proud of.

Justin: Definitely. We started from, you know, a) the fiction but b) the blue prints of the castle. We’ve been working quite hard with the movie people to try and get the, you know, “de facto Hogwarts” and in the past we’ve designed Hogwarts almost around game play. You know? How our camera system works, how our AI system works, this one was actually built from blueprints. You know, like Matt said, it presents so many design challenges. So, to make a fun game building from a real world set, that’s quite a challenge, and I really think we’ve kind of pulled it off. And I think also, you know, bringing that to life with magic, I mean you guys said you’d seen the demo; there’s sort of various discoverable items, enchanted items in the world that you can discover with magic.

Andrew: Yeah.

Justin: Just having those things in, and the wizard games, and the fictional precedence for all the missions we’re putting in, we’re really trying to bring Hogwarts to life. It’s really what we’re excited about and it’s so different to the games you’ve seen before.

Andrew: Cool.

Kevin: Okay. Now, going back a little to the Wii, how many different console versions will there be, and what are going to be the slight differences between each?

Justin: So, what we’ve done this year…we’ve kind of got a PS2. We’ve got a PC. We’ve got X-Box 360. We’ve got a PS3. We got PSP, GBA, and NDS, sort of Nintendo DS. And what we’ve tried to do is, kind of, take the broad design, the story, the narratives, but give each of those platforms something slightly unique. We’re calling it, perhaps a little bit of a twist for each of those platforms, because what we realized is each of those platforms are in the hands of different people. You know, people playing PSP aren’t necessarily people playing NDS, and so forth.

Andrew: Right.

Matt: So, what we’ve tried to do is kind of skew the game play, just a little bit, so that those people playing those consoles get something that’s designed for that console. So, for the NDS, for example, it’s got the style of – we’re maximizing the two screens, all the game play centered around interactions through the styles of your wand, in this case. But again, the game play might be a bit more puzzle oriented for the Wii, the DS, because those kind of people prefer, you know, puzzle oriented gaming and sorts of games that are coming out in the DS are more in that fashion. Whereas you might go with the PSP, it’s a bit more hardcore for all the boys. It might be something slightly different. And again with the Wii-mote and the Wii, it’s all about the controller. We’re trying to make it so that you’re casting spells, so you feel that you’re really, kind of, using the wand with the Wii-mote. So, we’re just trying to skew them individually, but the core game stays the same in terms of telling the same story, you know, doing the same things. It’s still all about Hogwarts and the enchanted Hogwarts, but we’re just trying to do one or two little things on each platform that’s unique.

Andrew: Right. I was actually using a Wii up in New York City last week, and I was playing a tennis game and all I could think about when I was playing that was how cool it’s going to be to use that Wii-mote with a – as a wand. So…

Justin: Yeah. We saw it, as well, and I’ve played the same tennis game and, you know, as soon as you pick it up you’re like, “Oh my god!” That was awesome.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah.

[Andrew and Kevin laugh]

Justin: This controller, you know, is like Nintendo sort of went, “How would we make the ultimate Harry Potter game? We put a wand in your hand!”

Andrew: Exactly. [laughs]

Kevin: Yeah.

Justin: [laughs] It’s fantastic. I was blown away by it.

Andrew: Yeah.

Justin: It’s a great console.

Interview: Order of the Phoenix Video Game (continued)

Andrew: It’s really cool. Could you give us a brief description about what we can expect from Order of the Phoenix? For example: is it a free roamer like Sorcerer’s Stone, Chamber of Secrets, and Prisoner of Azkaban, or will it have defined levels, and how are the objectives laid out, and also, should we expect any new game play elements that weren’t previously available in other games?

Matt: I would say that this game is probably taking the best bits of the games you mentioned, but it’s more open if anything.

Kevin: Oh.

Matt: So, we kind of have an open, roamable Hogwarts, but we’re filling it with side quests, portrait quests, mini-games, enchanted items for you to discover, as well as the narrative mission. I mean, what we’ve really learned is people have been really wanting Hogwarts. It’s the biggest source of feedback we’ve had for the last couple of years. You know, they really want to explore Hogwarts and sort of see the characters they know and love and kind of do the things that the guys do in the books and in the films. So, we’ve put that really at the center of what we’re trying to do this year. And part of that is magic. We’ve kind of done spell casting in the past, but what we’re trying to do is really bring the world to life with magic. We’ve been watching the films and sort of looking at things like, when you see the chairs stack themselves in the Leaky Cauldron. You know, that’s magic in the Harry Potter world; it’s not necessarily big kind of spell casting. So, for us, I guess the difference this year is we’ve got this open-roaming Hogwarts that you can either choose to do the narrative missions – and even with that there’s probably several narrative missions open at any one time, particularly when you’re sort of trying to recruit the DA and you’re exploring Hogwarts, but we’ve also given you side missions you can pick up, doing stuff for the portraits and the ghosts, really bringing those kind of lively elements in. And then there’s this discovery element. You can go around Hogwarts and you can find all the little enchanted items that you can interact with, with your magic.

Justin: Yeah. I mean, it’s really – this time around, we’ve kept the sort of big moments from fiction, and with things like Grimmauld Place will be there for you to go in, meet Sirius and spend some time with him, and we’ll have the Ministry of Magic at the end, and of course, there’s the whole set of events in Hogwarts with Umbridge, and we really want to sort of…

Andrew: Awesome.

Justin: …make sure that that’s – all fiction is covered in that, but we want to go beyond that, as well. So, we’ve really got to expand Hogwarts out a lot more. And so I mean, we showed you guys the common room and in there we have things like the snitch, which is from one of the references in the book with Harry when he gets so angry after Umbridge has banned him from Quidditch that he goes up there and he realizes he’s still got the snitch in his hand and he’s sulking around the common room with Crookshanks trying to grab it. We’ve tried to grab all of that and also put that in there for you to discover, so going around Hogwarts you’ve kind of got the main narrative game, but you’ve got all of this extra stuff in there, which is all about finding bits of the fiction; talking to the portraits, seeing what they know and, you know, you might come across McGonagall shouting at Umbridge in a corridor and hopefully, as fans, we can all go, “Oh, man, I remember that bit! That’s so awesome! And now I’ve experienced that myself!”

Andrew: Right. [laughs]

Justin: So, it really is sort of about making that Hogwarts experience really, really rich. I mean, I think you’ll be able to spend as much time, if not more time just walking around Hogwarts trying to find everything as you do just going down the main mission path, which is quite huge, as well, because we’ve got all of the DA members in there and then you’ve got to spend time trying to undermine Umbridge. So, with a couple of extra characters in there to play, you get a moment with Fred and George, who rock. [laughs]

Andrew: Oh, cool! [laughs]

Justin: Very cool, very cool. [laughs] I’m sorry, I couldn’t help myself. Fred and George are awesome!

[Kevin laughs]

Andrew: You know what? I can see that big smile of yours from across this Atlantic Ocean. I can picture it in my head.

[Everyone laughs]

Justin: I must admit, I keep seeing some of the stuff coming through, and we’ve just been working on the character models for Fred and George and I’m so excited! I can’t wait!

Andrew: [laugh] Cool.

[Kevin laughs]

Justin: So, I’ve been controlling these guys and wandering around with them. Obviously, everybody’s got favorite characters, and we’re trying to put loads of them in there, so we’re trying to do almost all the DA and we’ve covered a lot of the extra characters and you get your moment with Sirius – awesome.

Andrew: Oh, cool.

Justin: So, I’m very excited about it. The game should be much more open and, as fans, we should be able to spend as much time just – if not directed time, if I want to go off and just spend time looking around the castle and finding all the students, having a game of wizard chess with people, I’ll be able to do that. So…

Matt: And join in.

Justin: And join in. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you get to play wizard chess. So…

Andrew: Oh, wow.

Justin: …and gobstones and wizardsnap, so we’ve got all of these things in there and these little tournaments and things to find out, and hopefully all these little things that are touched on in the fiction, we get to expand out and, as fans get to experience that.

Matt: There’s classes, as well. We forgot to mention the classes! You can go in and do classes. You can make your own potions, and go to Charms and Transfiguration…

Andrew: Wow.

Matt: …and Herbology.

Kevin: Well…

Andrew: That’s really amazing.

Kevin: Yeah, I have to say, I’m pretty glad to find out that it’s a free-roaming game because we must have gotten that question about 100 times.

[Justin and Matt laugh]

Kevin: You don’t understand how many voicemails asked that specific question.

[Andrew laughs]

Matt: It’s funny because, I mean, so many kids are playing open-world games now. It’s just – you have to do that.

Andrew: Yeah.

Matt: It’s what people expect, so it would be silly not to. And I think Hogwarts lends itself to being open. It’s such a great world. We’d love to build more. We’re just sort of [laughs] limited into what we can build, and I think we’re doing Hogwarts a great degree of justice. It’s a real focus just on it.

Andrew: Cool.

Kevin: Yeah, that’s cool. Now, is there going to be anything in the games concerning Occlumency?

Matt: Oh, of course there is!

[Everyone laughs]

Matt: It’s just fantastic. The electricity between Harry and Snape is just – you know, I’ve read all that stuff and my heart’s in my mouth all the time.

[Andrew laughs]

Matt: But, yes, Occlumency is going to be in there, and you’re going to be able to go back to it a number of times, like many of the other lessons. And so, yeah, Occlumency’s definitely going to be part of the experience, and all that, obviously, is kind of an abstract concept, so we’re spending a little bit of time at the moment experimenting with various ways Occlumency could be done.

Andrew: Cool. Next question we have here: Have you guys ever considered making an online version of any of the Harry Potter games or possibly any in the future?

Justin: I think we’ve considered making lots of games. [laughs] Ultimately, we’d love to make more than we do, but…

Andrew: Uh huh.

Justin: …the movie games are taking up all our time and effort right now and we’ve still got two more after this one to go, so…

Andrew: Right.

Justin: …I think we’ll be making movie games for a little while yet. So, yes, we’d love to. I’m sure we’ve had the ideas, but we’re not doing it right now.

Andrew: Okay.

Kevin: Okay. Our next question is: Will Jim Dale be narrating the game?

Justin: We don’t actually have a narrator this year. One of the things we’ve really, really, really tried to do from the outset of this game, is design it so that the implementation of the stories is integral to the game play. And we want you to have this kind of seamless presentation of
the game that’s immersing into the fiction from the minute you sort of start the game to the final credits, really. And so, all the story is done through characters or through in game characters. It’s not really that we come up against these narrative cut scenes once in a while that try to fill in the story. We’re hoping to tell the story throughout your character and interactions throughout Hogwarts, and just throughout the game from start to finish. So, we’re not using any narrators this year.

Andrew: Okay.

Justin: For the story.

Andrew: Go ahead, Kevin.

Kevin: Okay, the next question: Are you going to be – let me check, one second. Are you going to be put… I’m trying to read this question off this thing. [laughs] Okay, are you going to be putting anything into the game that has been edited out of the movie?

Justin: Ummm, well…

Kevin: Such as things…

Justin: Not specifically what has been left out of the movie, but obviously the movie can only cover a certain amount of the actual book and the story, so we’re picking up some aspects of that and we’re spending a lot of time trying to take the text and find ways of putting it into the game. So, we’ve got you going and finding all the DA members, and we’ve gone through all the texts and found all these little details about them and tried to make missions from them, so you’re doing something that’s relevant to the fiction with everybody. So, we’re not just going to make something up and have you do that. It’s going to be taking something from the fiction, something that we’ve found, we all know…

Andrew: Mhm.

Kevin: Mhm.

Justin: …and making you be a part of that. So, hopefully we’re going to be able to bring a lot more of the fiction into the video game experience, sort of expand on it as you get to play it. And so I’m expecting there’s going to be various things that you’re only going to be able to solve if you’re a real hardcore fan. I’m looking forward to seeing what everybody makes of it.

Andrew: Okay, cool.

Kevin: Cool.

Andrew: And will there be any connectivity to any other Nintendo video game systems? The WII version could possibly be paired up with the DS, like there was for Chamber of Secrets?

Justin: Actually, the only thing more I can say, is that we actually haven’t got any plans to support this currently.

Andrew: Okay.

Justin: We’ve kind of done this sort of thing in the past, but we’re not planning to do it this year, unfortunately. I think the Wii will stand alone and I think the DS will
stand alone as really good games in their own right, but we’re not planning any connectivity.

Andrew: Okay.

Kevin: Okay.

Justin: Sorry about that. [laughs]

Andrew: It’s fine. [laughs]

Kevin: Yeah, it is fine. Now, this is a pretty important question: What is the game going to be rated and why?

Lisa: Well, I guess that’s where I come in. [laughs]

[Kevin laughs]

Andrew: Let’s introduce you, Lisa.

Lisa: Thanks.

Andrew: Lisa, what is your exact title at Electronic Arts?

Lisa: I’m Marketing Manager for Harry Potter.

Andrew: Okay.

Lisa: So, I work very closely with Justin and Matt and to make sure we send out all the right messages out to all the right people. And so, in answer to your question about the ratings; we’re not entirely sure what the rating is going to be yet. The last product, Goblet of Fire, was the highest rating that we’ve done to date. And the other thing is that the films are getting darker and, obviously, the games are following suit. So, we’re expecting to have the same ESRB in the US, Peggy in Europe, and the USK and Germany, so it’s safe to say it’s the same as the Goblet of Fire, but it is yet to be confirmed.

Kevin: Okay.

Justin: That was an E10 in ESRB, Peggy was 7+ and USK and Germany was 12+.

Andrew: Okay.

Kevin: Okay, that’s good.

Andrew: Well, Lisa, Justin, and Matt, that concludes all of our questions from our listeners. It definitely looks like an excellent Harry Potter video game and we’re looking forward to it. Are you guys allowed to talk about release date? Do you have one yet?

Lisa: We can, actually. Yes, because I think by the time this is broadcast, actually…

Andrew: Yeah.

Lisa: …we’re going to have made an announcement.

Andrew: Okay.

Kevin: Okay.

Lisa: So, the plan at the moment is that – the plan is, is that we’ll be releasing the game on the same day as the movie release…

Kevin: Oh, that’s cool.

Lisa: …in America and in the UK. And then what we’re going to do is do a stack of the release across all the other countries, as well, so we’ll make sure that the game is in the shops the same day as the movie comes out.

Andrew: Cool. So, after we all see the movie, we can run out and buy the video games and then relive the whole thing again.

Justin: [laughs] We hope so.

Andrew: Yeah.

[Everyone laughs]

Justin: I mean I think Matt and I would really like to thank you guys and certainly all the fans that have been asking the questions and feeding back, and I think we’ve found it really invaluable. And the more sort of feedback we get, the better. It really helps us work out whether we’re making the right game and we’re putting the right things in. As you can appreciate, we’ve got only so much time and only so many people working on the game, and we have to make some decisions some time where things don’t go in or they do go in. If we’ve got some feedback of people telling us something’s really, really important, we can make better decisions about what goes in the game and hopefully please people and make the game that they want. So really, definitely thanks for you and any continuing feedback you give us.

Andrew: Okay, well, no problem. And I know I’ll be purchasing the Wii copy of the video game when it comes out, so I’m definitely looking forward to using the Wii-mode as a wand. [laughs]

Justin: I can’t wait.

[Everyone laughs]

Kevin: I think everyone is.

Andrew: Yeah. Okay.

Justin: Thank you so much, guys. Really.

Lisa: Thank you so much.

Kevin: Yeah, thanks.

Andrew: So, once again, the video game will be in stores on July 13th. Eric, I know you’re a big video game player.

Eric: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah, I’ll do a review on it like I did on Goblet of Fire video game, if you want.

Andrew: Oh, excellent.

Eric: I think it’s cool, though, that we’ve had the early teens, I think it was, or the late teens, we got our first sneak peak of Goblet of Fire. You know, the first trailer, the first pictures, the first everything, and then we were going into it and introducing it and talking about it. We’re doing the same thing now with Order of the Phoenix. I think that’s great. I think that’s really cool how we got to do this for two movies so far.

Andrew: Yeah, good point.

Eric: On this show.

Dumbledore/Norris Facts

Andrew: Well, we’ve been around for over a year now. We’re getting old. We have some Dumbledore/Norris facts, now. We haven’t had these in a while, and I know people have been really looking forward to these, Jamie.

Jamie: Well, I’ve got a special list of them this week, since it’s been so long.

Andrew: Oh, oh awesome.

Jamie: Now, there are a couple that have been ripped straight off Chuck Norris, and a couple that haven’t, so here goes a couple: When Dumbledore jumps into water, he doesn’t get wet, the water gets “Dumbledored.”

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Jamie: Dumbledore maintains that his only weakness is giant trolls with several large clubs, but this is, in fact, a lie designed to lure more giant trolls to Dumbledore.

[Eric laughs]

Jamie: Dumbledore destroyed the periodic table because he only recognizes the element of surprise.

Andrew: Ohhh! [laughs]

[Eric laughs]

Micah: Ohhh!

Jamie: The mirror of Erised is actually enchanted to show you the second deepest desire of your heart; otherwise, everyone would see Dumbledore.

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Jamie: These three, these three, these three… Oh, yeah, these next three and that last one are from Mike, who sent his e-mail quite a while ago, and I just found it in my inbox, and they’re awesome, so thank you very much, Mike. Albus Dumbledore made them change the title to Head Man while he was at Hogwarts; Albus Dumbledore is no one’s boy.

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Jamie: When he was young, Albus Dumbledore entered the Triwizard tournament on behalf of all three schools. Each school finished first that year, because Albus Dumbledore is second to no one, including himself. I like that one.

[Andrew laughs]

Jamie: Albus Dumbledore does not speak Parseltongue; he forces snakes to speak English out of fear.

[Eric laughs]

Jamie: Thank you very much, Mike.

[Micah laughs]

Jamie: And I’ll be back with some more next week as well. Keep sending them in.

Ben: I must admit, I’m pretty impressed with those.

Jamie: Really?

Ben: Usually I’m a disser of this segment. Those are pretty good.

Jamie: Well, I’m glad you like them. Thank Mike. So, yeah, please keep sending them in, especially the original Dumbledore ones. You know, fashioned on stuff from Harry Potter.

Listener Rebuttal: Snape’s Boggart

Andrew: We have another rebuttal now from Narcissa Snape.

Jamie: Andrew, you need…

Andrew: I didn’t know she was a listener, 36, from Spinner’s End, as everyone knows. She wrote to us about Snape and the boggart. She writes:

I think it is more likely that Snape left the room as he didn’t want anyone to see what his boggart was.

Good point. Good point.

Jamie: Very good point. Interestingly, what would Snape’s boggart be? People calling him a coward? People losing faith in him? Stuff like that? People not trusting him?

Andrew: Shampoo?

[Everyone laughs]

Ben: Ohhh!

Eric: Oh, okay, Moony. Okay, Prongs. Just go on making fun of the Snape.

Andrew: Ah, yeah, I don’t know. People – how can you – the boggart can morph into people making fun of him, I guess?

Jamie: Yeah, that could be it. Yeah.

Eric: Or his father.

Andrew: There’s got to be something else. That just seems like his teenage…

Eric: Probably his father, guys. His family.

Ben: Guys, guys, I have a question. What would your boggart be?

Jamie: You, Ben.

Ben: I bet. Eric, I really want to know what your boggart is.

Eric: I’m trying to think. Nothing, because I’m scared of nothing.

Jamie: [laughs] No, Dumbledore is scared of nothing.

Eric: [laughs] No, I don’t know. I’ll think about it.

Andrew: All right.

Eric: I’ll text-message you.

Listener Rebuttal: Mature Listeners

Andrew: Robin, 45, of Santa Rosa California writes in about mature listeners. Older listeners in the show, and she has a challenge for them, and she has one herself.

“Hi MuggleCasters. I’ve been listening to your podcast for over a year now, and I thought it was time I wrote you a real live fan letter, and made a challenge to a very special subset of your listeners. First, the fan part. I am 45 years old, and I have been a Harry Potter fan for years, right from the time of the first book. When I got an iPod last year, one of the first things I did was search for Harry Potter on iTunes, and up popped MuggleCast. I subscribed and have enjoyed every minute since. Now, I hate to go all “mom” on you guys, [laughs] but I just have to say that one of the things I enjoy most about the show is just listening to young people speaking articulately and enthusiastically about something they enjoy and have fun with. You do a great job, and set a great example. I have a ten-year old, and a seven-year old, both huge Harry Potter fans, of course, and I hope they turn out as well as you have.”

Eric: Awww.

Andrew: Thank you Robin.

“Now, for the challenge. I have to admit it…I have to admit I took some…”


[Jamie laughs]

Andrew: “I have to admit it took some courage to admit to you all that I’m forty five and I listen to MuggleCast, BUT I KNOW I’M NOT ALONE!”

In all caps.

“I’d like to challenge all your mature listeners to come out from hiding and reveal themselves. Come on, people of a certain age, I know you’re out there. Get out from under your invisibility cloaks and show yourselves. Yours in fandom. Robin.”

Eric: Awww.

Andrew: So, that’s Robin’s challenge, so I guess she wants people to write into us and say I’m a mature listener and I listen to this show.

Eric: We’ve heard from a small fraction of our audience, and that has influenced the show. What I’m saying is there’s a large portion of people who – I’ll just call them non-participants, who enjoy the show, but don’t really say anything about it. So, Robin’s challenge is just to hear from some more of these people.

Listener Rebuttal: Dumbledore’s Letters

Andrew: We do get e-mails sometimes from the more mature listeners with rebuttals and such, and of course, we appreciate it. And so that’s Robin’s challenge. E-mail us. Let us know you’re a listener. We have another rebuttal now from Melissa Wah…Wine…kah…schroer [has a difficult time pronouncing name] Way…hen…schroer.

Jamie: Wiehenstroer.

Andrew: I can’t do it. I’m not good with my German.

Jamie: Wiehenstroer.

Andrew: Wiehenstroer?

Jamie: Wiehenstroer, I think.

Andrew: Fifteen, of Syracuse, New York.

“Hi, MuggleCasters. I was rereading Book 6 when I noticed how Dumbledore always used a different person to give Harry a note about their Voldemort meetings. First was Jack Sloper, then Ginny, then Hermione, Luna, and lastly, Jimmy Peakes. I was just wondering why Dumbledore didn’t send Harry these notes directly and what, if any, significance this has?”


Jamie: Isn’t it just because he trusts people and he doesn’t think about these things because he thinks, he sees someone walking by and he thinks well, he can give it to Harry, since, you know?

Eric: And that’s a good answer. [Laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, he’s sort of trying to avoid them anyway. So…

Jamie: Yeah. Exactly. Yeah, especially, yeah.

Eric: So that’s why he didn’t give them in person, because if Dumbledore had been seen with Harry, you know, but…

Andrew: Anything to add to this, Micah?

Micah: No. I think that you guys pretty much covered it in saying that he probably just didn’t want the same person carrying it to Harry all the time, like…

Jamie: It gets suspicious, yeah.

Micah: He didn’t want anybody seen directly…

Jamie: Favoritism and stuff.

Micah: Yeah. Maybe there’s somebody there he doesn’t trust.

Andrew: Jamie, you had success this past week.

Listener Rebuttal: Structural Architects

Jamie: I did, yeah. I asked in 64 about structural architects, and somebody sent in this rebuttal. This is from Joanne, 36, from San Francisco, California. She says,

“Jamie, you said in Episode 64 that the cast would have to ‘ask a structural architect – we’ve got plenty of those as listeners’ when discussing the columns in the Room of Requirement. I sensed sarcasm and disbelief in your end statement, so let me reassure you that you have at least one listener who is a structural engineer. I don’t know what a structural architect is. I’m assuming that’s a UK term. Maybe that’s like a structural…”


“Maybe that’s like an architectural engineer over here. So, the technical answer to the question ‘What’s holding the ceiling up in the Room of Requirement?’ is this: it’s magic. Actually, when I saw the DA group photo in the Room of Requirement, I thought those weird hanging column things were ventilation, especially since the group is standing on a giant grate. It looks like the room is set up for some serious high-volume air exchange. I love the show! Joanne.”

Well, perhaps that’s like wind stuff to create for the Expelliarmus spell. But, I think she’s saying that the ceiling – that ceiling would fall down if it was a real ceiling, so it must be real magic. So, thank you, Joanne, for writing in.

Andrew: The grates are – lighting comes out of those.

Jamie: Oh, okay.

Andrew: It’s for lighting.

Jamie: But the next week’s challenge is: if you’re an astronaut, can you write in?

[Everyone laughs]

Ben: Yeah NASA.

[Eric and Micah laughs]

Jamie: I can see it next week – from, Neil Armstrong, age, however old he is…

[Andrew laughs]

Jamie: …from the moon. Thank you, Joanne, for that.

Andrew’s Listener Challenge Update

Andrew: I have a McDonald’s update now. We’ve been getting lots of submissions. You have until the end of the month to send in your Listener Challenge entries. Once again, you take a photo of yourself and a little promotional sign for MuggleCast, whether it’s in McDonalds, or Subway, or any place out in public to help spread the word. Send those in to mugglecast at staff dot mugglenet dot com, and put in the subject line, please, “Listener Challenge” so it’s easy for me to find all these, and then we’ll post them, I guess in early December. And the contest winner will be winning a t-shirt, and a copy of the new MuggleNet book. Can we do that, Ben?

Ben: Yes. We can do that.

British Joke of the Day

Andrew: Jamie, you want to wrap things up today with a little – with a British Joke of the Day?

Jamie: Yes. Somebody sent this in. I’m sorry, I accidentally got rid of the email, so I can’t remember who it’s from. But…

Andrew: [laughs] We’re all…

Jamie: [laughs] Yeah, I know. We’re so useful. Okay. “A young man named John received a parrot as a gift. The parrot had a bad attitude and an even worse vocabulary. Every word out of the bird’s mouth was rude, obnoxious, and laced with profanity. John tried and tried to change the bird’s attitude by consistently saying only polite words, playing soft music, and anything else he could think of to clean up the bird’s vocab. Finally, John was extremely fed up, and he yelled at the parrot. The parrot yelled back. John shook the parrot. The parrot got angrier and even ruder. John, in desperation, threw up his hand, grabbed the bird, and put him in the freezer. For a few minutes, the parrot squawked and kicked and screamed, then suddenly, there was total quiet. Not a peep was heard for over a minute. Fearing that he’d hurt the parrot, John quickly opened the door to the freezer. The parrot calmly stepped out onto John’s outstretched arms and said, ‘I believe I may have offended you with my rude language and actions. I’m sincerely remorseful for my inappropriate transgressions, and I fully intend to do everything I can to correct my rude and unforgivable behavior.’ John was stunned at the change in the bird’s attitude. As he was about to ask the parrot what had made such a dramatic change in his behavior, the bird continued, ‘May I ask what the turkey did?'”

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: That’s my favorite joke!

Micah: That was good.

Jamie: I’m glad you like it.

Show Close

Andrew [Show Close with the music in the background]: If you would like to contact us, you can use the phone number 1-218-20-MAGIC (62442), in the United States. If you’re in the United Kingdom, you can dial 020-8144-0677. If you’re in Australia, you can dial 02-8003-5668. What’s the PO Box, Ben?

Ben: PO Box 223, Moundridge, KS 67107.

Andrew: You can also Skype the name MuggleCast to leave us a voicemail. And we’d like to remind everyone that next week is our voicemail show, so we’re going to have ten or 15 voicemail questions to answer. It’s just going to be – oh gosh, it’s going to be crazy. And you can also use the MuggleCast website to contact us via email or the feedback form. You could just do any of our names at staff dot mugglenet dot com, or mugglecast at staff dot mugglenet dot com. And don’t forget to become our friend on MySpace because we love MySpace! And join our Facebook group, YouTube group, Frappr group, Last.FM group, Fanlisting Forums – it’s all there on So that’s it! Next week – I’m Andrew Sims.

Ben: I’m Ben Schoen.

Jamie: I’m Jamie Lawrence.

Eric: I’m Eric Scull.

Micah: And I’m Micah Tannenbaum.

Andrew: We’ll see everyone next week for Episode 66. Bye bye!

Ben: Bye bye.

Eric: Bye bye.

[Music ends]


Micah: The Guardian is currently running a competition where entrants must… [farting noise interrupts Micah] Oh, Ben, that was nasty!


Written by: Micah, Adrienne, Briana, Eloise, Jessica, Judy, Mandie, Martina, Matt, Megan, Roni, Samantha, Sarah, Shannon and Shelly

Transcript 064

MuggleCast 64 Transcript

Show Intro

Andrew: If you want to make an impact online, has what you need. Dot com names as low as $1.99, plus world class hosting, fast and easy website builders, and much more. Plus, as a MuggleCast listener enter code “Muggle” when you check out, and receive and additional ten percent on any order. Some restrictions apply, see site for details. Get your piece of the internet today at

[Intro music]

Andrew: Because this is MuggleCast, Episode 64 for November 20, 2006: The Good Side of Voldemort.

[Music continues to play]

Andrew: I… Guys… I hate weeks like this.

Laura: Me, too.

Andrew: I… Yeah, I do not like them.

Kevin: Yeah.

Andrew: Nothing to talk about…

Kevin: So boring.

Andrew: …this week.

Laura: Depressing.

Andrew: See any stories that stuck out, Jamie? Ben? Laura? Kevin? Any stories stuck out?

Jamie: No.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: I mean, I guess there’s the birthday of MuggleNet Fan Fiction.

Laura: Yeah that’s nice.

Kevin: Oh, yeah that’s pretty cool.

Andrew: I guess that’s a big one.

Jamie: Oh, yeah…

Laura: Two years.

Jamie: …people all over the world were celebrating that one.

Andrew: Congrats to them.

Jamie: They had release parties…

Andrew: Yeah, that’s good.

Jamie: …everywhere.

Andrew: Oh, bookstores. They’re getting Harry Potter Seven ads now. That’s a good sign.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: That’s right.

Laura: There’s no title, no art.

Jamie: No book.

Laura: No [laughs] – no nothing. But, you know…

Kevin: It’s a poster they could have printed themselves.

Andrew: I’m going to guess that this is going to be a short show this week.

Laura: Oh, there was another poster wasn’t there?

Andrew: What?

Laura: That came out this week.

Andrew: No – what? I…

Laura: Something with Voldemort.

Andrew: I think I missed that. What are you talking about?

Ben: [whispering] “You will lose everything!”

Laura: New Order of the Phoenix promotional [laughs].

Andrew: Oh, oh…

Laura: Yeah, the…

Andrew: The teaser poster.

Laura: I think Ben phrased it the best.

Andrew: What’d he say?

Ben: “You will lose everything.”

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Oh, yeah. Well, we’ll talk about that in a minute. But… I don’t know. I guess it will be a short show this week. Not much to talk about.

Jamie: Under ten minutes, maybe.

Andrew: Ummm, yeah – so, I’m Andrew Sims.

Ben: I’m Ben Schoen.

Jamie: I’m Jamie Lawrence.

Kevin: I’m Kevin Steck.

Laura: And I’m Laura Thompson.

Ben: We’ll see you all next week.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, goodbye. [laughs]

Kevin: Goodbye.

Andrew: Micah Tannenbaum has got a short news piece on the flip side of this hot beat.

[Music continues to play]


Micah: The Order of the Phoenix teaser trailer is now officially out. So, everyone, stop going to YouTube. MTV’s Total Request Live today aired a video which featured clips from Order of the Phoenix. They are the same as those in the trailer, and interviews with some of the cast members, including Daniel Radcliffe and Rupert Grint.

An Order of the Phoenix preview will come as part of ABC family’s Harry Potter weekend, which will air the weekend of December 1st through 3rd.

As we reported earlier this month, HBO will begin to show a sneak peek of the fifth Harry Potter movie, starting today, November 20th, and ending on December 17th.

The official website for Order of the Phoenix is now open. Be sure to head over there and check it out.

Last week, Warner Brothers revealed the first official promotional poster for the Order of the Phoenix movie. It depicts Voldemort brandishing his wand with the caption: “You will lose everything.”

And USA Today published four brand-new photos from the Order of the Phoenix movie, in an article which also contained a new interview with Daniel Radcliffe. The photos depict Voldemort, Sirius, Umbridge, and, of course, Harry and Cho kissing. Shortly after this, Warner Brothers released ten brand new pictures from the fifth film, including a few that didn’t make USA today.

Moving away from the fifth film, Barnes and Noble is beginning to receive posters with information on pre-ordering the seventh Harry Potter book. You can see a photo over on However, JK Rowling’s spokesperson has informed us that Book 7 writing is going well, but stores taking pre-orders means absolutely nothing at this time.

Finally, last week Emma Watson gave an enlightening speech at Oxford University, detailing what she’s learned from playing Hermione, how she really enjoys the Potter sets, how Evanna Lynch humbles her and a number of other interesting matters. Emma also spoke a little about her future, explaining how she wishes to continue her schooling and acting career.

That’s all the news for this November 20th, 2006 edition of MuggleCast. Happy Thanksgiving to all our US listeners. Back to the show.

News Discussion: Order of the Phoenix Trailer

Andrew: All right thank you, Micah. I was just kidding, guys.

Jamie: You were really kidding, Andrew?

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: Order of the Phoenix. What’s that?

Jamie: What’s that?

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Oh, it’s a new Harry Potter movie coming out next year.

Kevin: Oh, really?

Ben: Oooh.

Laura: Really?

Andrew: O-M-G, guys. Where do we start? This week was a big week for Order of the Phoenix.

Kevin: But not for MuggleNet.

Andrew: And everyone looking forward to it. Yes, not for MuggleNet.

Laura: No.

Andrew: We had record low visitors. No, in all seriousness, there’s a lot to talk about this week. Probably the biggest thing: the Order of the Phoenix trailer was released.

Jamie: Woohoo.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: Teaser trailer. A mere 54 seconds, but I thought it was very good.

Jamie: I thought it was very good.

Ben: How long was that…?

Laura: Yeah, it was very good.

Ben: How long was that online? You know what I mean?

Jamie: No.

Andrew: Up on YouTube?

Ben: Yeah.

Jamie: No, you…

Andrew: Can I make a confession?

Jamie: You shouldn’t say that, really.

Andrew: …as everyone else will, too? Yeah.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: We all watched it on YouTube.

Jamie: No, we didn’t. We went to Happy Feet. Didn’t we, Andrew?

Ben: Who actually went to see Happy Feet?

Jamie: Every single one of us went to see Happy Feet.

Kevin: It was a very high quality version.

Laura: Well, you know what? Whenever I was pulling down voicemails, there were several unhappy people because the trailer didn’t run with Happy Feet everywhere.

Ben: Really?

Andrew: Well, that had me a bit confused.

Jamie: Well it did for us, didn’t it? Thankfully. That’s lucky.

Andrew: Yeah, luckily.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: People were not happy to see Happy Feet, they were “Sad Feet.” [laughs]

Ben: Oh my God, Andrew.

Jamie: Good one, Andrew. Good one.

Andrew: Yeah, thank you.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: [laughs] So, the Order of the Phoenix trailer came out. I would have to say my favorite scene from that trailer was the one with Snape.

Jamie: Yeah, it was awesome.

Andrew: What does…

Laura: That was awesome.

Kevin: It was awesome.

Ben: [imitates Snape] “Prove it!”

Andrew: What does Harry say? Yeah, [also imitates Snape] “So, prove it!” I loved it, Alan Rickman…

Jamie: The problem is – the problem with that is…

Laura: That was very good.

Andrew: Perfect Snape.

Jamie: … that’s such a tough…

Ben: Yeah, a bit fat, though, according to everybody.

Jamie: What?

Ben: People keep saying he got fat.

Jamie: Who?

Andrew: He did?

Ben: Alan Rickman.

Laura: No, he didn’t.

Andrew: [laughs] It was just the picture.

Laura: It could have been the lighting.

Andrew: Yeah.

Jamie: The thing is it’s such a tough emotional scene to do. They’re either going to do that so-so well, or so-so badly.

Laura: Or it’s going to be really bad. [laughs]

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: Snape… I really… That was definitely the best part of that trailer.

Jamie: I agree. That was very good.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: I’m looking forward to that scene, I think, the most; just watching Snape trying to get into Harry’s mind.

Laura: What you mean…

Ben: I’m definitely looking forward to…

Laura: You mean your favorite scene…

Ben: …the Voldemort-Dumbledore…

Laura: …wasn’t Harry and Cho?

Jamie: Oh, you’re joking?

Ben: Oh. Oh, that was definitely hotness.

Kevin: Oooh!

Ben: Pure hotness!

Jamie: It was the most forced thing I’ve ever seen in my life.

Kevin: [laughs] Yeah. No kidding.

Laura: What?

Andrew: Ah, yeah. There’s a little debate over the pictures, too.

Jamie: It’s so, so, so, so forced. They’re like…

Ben: So, Jamie, do you think Dan would be a good kisser though, based off that picture?

Jamie: Ummm…

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: [sarcastically] Yeah, well, it’s a pretty big stack of evidence Ben, that one photo. It’s a…

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah…

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Well, I don’t know. I don’t know…

Jamie: I think I can pass a very, very inclusive judgment from that. I’d have to say I don’t know. To be honest, I’ve no idea. I’m sure he would, I’m sure he would. Ask Katie. Ask Katie.

Andrew: Well, didn’t she say “Yes”? [laughs]

Laura: Didn’t she say he was? Yeah.

Ben: Yeah.

Laura: Well, what’s she going to say? [laughs]

Jamie: Well she’s not going to say, “No, it was awful.”

Andrew: Another picture – basically all the pictures that came out were what we saw in the trailer. I don’t they’ve ever done that before, have they? Well, hold on. Let me do a mini “Give Me a Butterbeer” here.

Ben: I think they have, actually.

Andrew: What gets me – yeah, what gets me is that Warner Brothers releases the trailer just in front of Happy Feet, and then they see that all the fans are upset that it’s not going to be online. So they make a compromise; they put ten seconds of it online, Friday night. Now is it just me, or is that really lame of Warner Brothers?

Kevin: Yeah, it’s lame.

Laura: Yeah. [laughs]

Andrew: I mean – and it’s going to come online in its entirety on Monday on the Happy Feet website. They can’t just throw it on QuickTime or Apple…

Kevin: Well, they’re trying to promote Happy Feet

Laura: Well – Happy Feet.

Andrew: I know, but…

Kevin: …because no one wants to see it without the trailer.

Laura: Yeah, no one cares about dancing penguins…

Jamie: The thing is, they could put it…

Andrew: No…

Laura: Basically [laughs]

Andrew: No, see a lot of people – well, we got a lot of flack about that too. We upset some people who were looking forward to go see Happy Feet.

Ben: Oh. [laughs] Sorry.

Andrew: Let me clear something up…

Laura: Guys…

Andrew: …early on in the show.

Laura: Yeah, really.

Andrew: When we’re talking about stuff here on the show, most of the time we’re just trying to be funny. The Gilmore Girls thing; I was trying to be funny. Happy Feet; I was just trying to be funny. We were all just trying to be funny. So, don’t take it seriously.

Laura: Yeah, and just because we think some thing is bad, doesn’t…

Jamie: Well I think…

Laura: …mean it is.

Jamie: What are you trying to say that the…

Laura: I mean, it’s just our opinions.

Jamie: …views of the MuggleCasters don’t necessarily reflect the views of the site.

Laura: Yeah, they don’t necessarily reflect the views of the site or the listeners, or, frankly, the other hosts.

Andrew: With that said though, I hate The OC. What a terrible show.

[Jamie and Kevin laugh]

Ben: Okay, shut your mouth.

Andrew: No, I’m just kidding.

Jamie: You’d think, though – you’d think that they’d put the trailer in front of a more mainstream film. I’d have thought it…

Kevin: Yeah, you’d think so.

Jamie: …would have gone in front of Bond over Happy Feet, to be honest.

Andrew: It is in front of Bond in Australia, I think.

Jamie: Well, that ruins my theory.

Kevin: Yeah, but what…

[Ben laughs]

Kevin: Like I said, I mean, all they’re trying to do is draw more people to see that movie. Maybe they…

Jamie: Or they’re just expecting it to flop.

Ben: Was Bond even produced by Warner Brothers?

Jamie: Everything is produced by Warner Brothers, Ben, nowadays.

Andrew: Well if it was in front of Bond in Australia, then it might be.

Jamie: Lord of the Rings produced Warner Brothers.

Andrew: I don’t know. We’re going to get a lot of e–mails about this, so someone better check it.

Jamie: Sorry, Warner Brothers produced Lord of the Rings.

Andrew: Kevin, can you check that?

Kevin: Check what? Oh, yeah. Sure.

Ben: They did?

Jamie: Yeah. They have a – the company that produced Lord of the Rings, I can’t remember their name, but it’s a small company under Time Warner.

Laura: New Line Cinema, wasn’t it?

Jamie: Yeah, New Line. That’s it. Time Warner own them.

Andrew: Oh. Hmmm.

Jamie: They own everything, seriously.

Laura: I think Time Warner owns everything. [laughs]

Jamie: Laura…

Andrew: Yeah.

Jamie: Laura…

Kevin: Yeah.

Jamie: Laura, Laura…they own you.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

News Discussion: Poster

Andrew: Well, then the beginning of this week the Order of the Phoenix teaser poster came out. Anyone impressed by that? If you ask me…

Laura: I thought it looked cool.

Ben: Well, check out the new MuggleNet layout.

Andrew: The caption…

Kevin: It looks okay.

Laura: Yeah, the caption was kind of…

Andrew: “You will lose everything”?

Laura: …kind of weak.

Jamie: What’s it referring to, precisely?

Ben: I don’t even know what that’s even about.

Laura: Well, see, that’s not even a line from the book, so…

Andrew: Yeah. I…

Ben: Well, neither was, “Something wicked this way comes,” but…

Laura: Yeah, but…

Laura and


…that was cool, though.

Andrew: Yeah.

Jamie: Let’s have a ten-pointer question.

Ben: What’s that?

Jamie: What was that from?

Ben: Macbeth. Macbeth.

Laura: Macbeth. [laughs]

Jamie: And what’s the one line before it?

Ben: “Double, double, toil and trouble…”

Laura: “Double, double…”

Andrew: “Double…”

Ben: “Fire burn and cauldron bubble.”

Jamie: It’s not going to go, “Double, double, toil and trouble, something wicked this way comes,” is it?

[Ben laughs]

Jamie: That sounds stupid.

[Ben sings “Double, Double”]

Andrew: Unless it was written that way.

Jamie: It’s, uh – no, it isn’t. It’s, “By the pricking of the thumbs.”

Ben: Yeah.

Laura: “Something wicked this way comes.”

Ben: At least I read Macbeth, so… [trails off, mumbling]

Laura: I used to have that whole thing memorized, because I liked Macbeth in ninth grade. But, yeah. Anyway…

Andrew: For one, I don’t think that was cool little caption to stick in front of Voldemort: “You will lose everything.”

Laura: No, but I think Voldemort looked good, though; the poster.

Andrew: He did look good, but…

Ben: He’s so hot.

[Andrew and Laura laughs]

Andrew: But, I don’t know. Is that a good way to start promoting the movie?

Laura: I don’t know. I think it’s cool.

Andrew: Making some scary guy on the posters, for…

Laura: No, I think it’s good, because it’s showing…

Andrew: That it’s getting darker.

Laura: Yeah, a real darkness to the series. I think they’re trying to draw in adult viewers, too. It’s a good way to do it.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah. Especially with the “PG–13” rating. Obviously it’s going to be another “PG-13” rating.

Laura: Mhm.

Jamie: Yeah, it can’t be – yeah. And, ummm…

Ben: Rated “R.”

Laura: I though it was going to be “G,” actually

Ben: Actually, “NC–17.”

Andrew: “R”? [laughs]

Jamie: Yeah. No. No, Ben, they keep getting worse and worse. Book Seven…

Ben: “X”.

Jamie: …is going to be “NC–17.” Yeah, it’s going to be “X” rated.

[Laura laughs]

Kevin: I just looked it up. OO7 is actually Sony Pictures.

Ben: See, what’d I tell you? That’s the reason they didn’t put it in front of Bond: because they want to promote their own kind.

Andrew: Yeah.

Jamie: Well, that explains it then, doesn’t it?

Kevin: Their own kind?

Ben: Their own Warner Brothers movies.

News Discussion: Pictures

Andrew: Yeah, that’s true. That’s true. Another – back to the pictures – we’re sort of going all over the place here. But, back to the pictures, you can tell some special effects weren’t in place yet. I personally did not like the picture of Umbridge in the Great Hall with the – what was that behind her? The Pendulum?

Ben: Decree thing?

Andrew: No, the pendulum. Swinging behind her. I think it was a pendulum, at least.

Laura: What was wrong with it? I didn’t pay attention…

Andrew: Well, if you look at the picture it looks really fake. They obviously…

Jamie: Well…

Lara: Well…

Andrew: …stuck her in front of it.

Jamie: It’s a movie set, Andrew, to be fair. It’s not a real castle

Laura: We were also watching it…

Andrew: No, but it was a digital effect – well, no, the Great Hall is real. What I’m saying is they stuck the pendulum behind it. It was a cheap job, that’s what I’m saying.

Laura: Andrew, we were also watching it off of a cheap pirate job. [laughs] So…

Andrew: No, no, no. The high-res pictures…

Kevin: No, the picture.

Laura: Oh, the pictures?

Andrew: Yes. The high–res pictures.

Laura: Oh, I don’t know. I didn’t pay that much attention.

Andrew: I could’ve done a better job PhotoShopping her in. But anything else stick out for anyone?

Ben: Oh, I don’t know. I like the kissing picture. Oh my God; Dan and Cho!

Laura: Did you see some people were kind of not happy that Warner Brothers showed that? Because they wanted to wait until the movie came out.

Andrew: Well, they’re going to have to, eventually.

Ben: Well, don’t check MuggleNet, if you don’t want to be spoiled.

Laura: Yeah, well they wanted to be surprised. I’m like, “You already know what happens.”

Ben: Voldemort look sweet when he’s walking through the fog, or whatever that is.

Laura: Yeah.

Kevin: Oh, yeah.

Jamie: Andrew, going back to the Umbridge one, I completely agree with you. The pendulum’s too big for the place, basically, and she just…

Andrew: Why would they put it in the Great Hall?

Laura: It’s too big for Hogwarts. [laughs]

Jamie: But, I just… She doesn’t… She isn’t Umbridge for me, really, I must admit.

Laura: Really? I think she looks good.

Ben: I thought that was Aunt Petunia…

Andrew: If her acting is good…

Ben: …at first.

Jamie: Yeah, she does. She looks a bit like Aunt Petunia. She needs the actual – the different…

Ben: She needs to be fatter, to be honest.

Jamie: Yeah. Yeah, she does need to be fatter.

Laura: Okay, it’s Hollywood, though…

Andrew: I think she needs to be shorter.

Jamie: Huh?

Andrew: It doesn’t matter.

Ben: Look at…

Laura: No, but see, even – it’s Hollywood. I mean, even Dudley isn’t… [laughs] I mean – I think it said…

Ben: Okay, it doesn’t matter. Don’t even go there, because there are fat actors.

Laura: No, I’m just – I know, but see, there aren’t as many of them as there are thin actors.

Kevin: I think if her acting is good, I think it will compensate for the lack of meeting our…

Jamie: Laura, you can – you don’t actually have to have a fat person to play a fat person, now, anyway. They have…

Laura: No, I know. They have…

Jamie: …they have like, special fats suits and…

Laura: Yeah, they have fat suits.

Jamie: …digital effects, and stuff like that. Do you think you could just go into a… [laughs]

Laura: But they won’t – okay.

Jamie: …into like, a specialist shop and ask for a fat suit?

[Kevin and Laura laugh]

Ben: Hey, isn’t Dumbledore, isn’t he a bit like – he looks sentimental in this picture.

Andrew: Oh, I love Dumbledore in the teaser.

Ben: Is this the Wizen…

Jamie: Oh, yeah, that’s awesome.

Ben: In this picture… In this picture, is this the Wiz – not the Wizengamot. This is Dumbledore at the trial, isn’t it?

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: Is that Mrs. Figg behind him?

Jamie: It is a very, very, very good job, there.

Andrew: Probably. I’ll take a look at it…

Ben: This looks similar to like, the pictures we saw of the Wizengamot – not the Wizengamot, but the trials in Goblet of Fire, doesn’t it?

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: Because it’s the same set.

Ben: Oh, is it really?

Jamie: No, Ben…

[Kevin laughs]

Jamie: …Ben, it’s the same dungeon. He says, when he walks in, in Order of the Phoenix, he gasps, because he remembers…

Ben: He’s been there before.

Kevin: He remembers it, yeah.

Jamie: …the place where, yeah, the Lestranges were sentenced to life imprisonment.

Ben: Oh.

Andrew: They’re using, for the Room of Requirement set, they are using – ah, I forget now. It was a classroom, but they’re using…

Jamie: Oh, really?

Andrew: …it for the Room of Requirement now. Yeah, they just took out like the…

Jamie: The chairs and stuff.

Andrew: They took out the – well, no. They cut the… [laughs] I’m such a bad reporter.

[Jamie laughs]

Andrew: They took out the – what are those things in the middle of the room?

Jamie: Tables?

Ben: Pillars?

Andrew: The pillars!

Laura: Desks?

Andrew: Yeah, they cut the pillars in half.

Laura: Oh.

Andrew: It looks kind of goofy, but that’s what they did. So…

Jamie: Cool.

Andrew: At any rate…

Ben: Then how’s the ceiling standing up?

Jamie: [laughs] Yeah.

Andrew: Well, because the…

Ben: Why hasn’t it fallen in on them?

Andrew: …sides. I don’t know. Why don’t you – I guess you’ll have to ask a…

Jamie: A structural architect, which…

Andrew: Yeah.

Jamie: …we’ve got plenty of those as listeners.


Andrew: Moving along, we have a few announcements for everyone, as usual. Purchase your MuggleCast t-shirts because there is a pandemic that’s about to happen, and it’s called, “No More MuggleCast T-Shirts For Sale.”

Ben: No more.

Andrew: So, it’s very important that you order your t-shirts before January 1st. Again, we’re not doing this to – it’s not some…

Ben: Trick.

Andrew: … “get rich quick” scheme. Yeah. Once we stop, we have to stop. People have been asking us, “Why do we have to stop?” It’s in accordance with WB’s new merchandising policy. And our shirt printer, Sam, wanted us to tell everyone that you do not need a PayPal account to order t-shirts, all you need to do is click the button that says, “click here if you don’t have a PayPal account,” and then you can use your credit card and I think you can also pay by eCheck, I think it’s called. So you don’t just need PayPal when you order it, and when you see “PayPal,” don’t be afraid and, you know, close it out. T-shirts are selling out fast, though, and we’re trying to keep up with everyone’s orders. Guys, seriously, if you’re thinking about buying a t-shirt, you better do it now, because they’re either going to run out quick, or they are going to – January 1st is going to roll around. So, that is that.

Don’t forget to vote for us on Podcast Alley. I think it’s a fun new game here to start making fun of Keith and the Girl.

[Ben laughs]

Andrew: Just to get their listeners angry at us.

Jamie: Yep.

Andrew: Their show’s a joke, seriously.

Laura: What is Keith and the Girl?

Jamie: It’s a joke. It’s actually a joke.

Andrew: It’s a show where they talk about – yeah, I listened to one or two. I mean, they’re kind of funny, but [laughs] they – the show’s, you know, they just talk about nonsense. Regularly.

Ben: Sounds like ours. [laughs]

Jamie: What’s going on with us, though?

Andrew: Yeah, basically, how we’re going today. [laughs] And, Ben, you have a little announcement? Something new this week?

Ben: Everybody, everybody! Now shipping,’s What Will Happen in Harry Potter Seven: Who Lives, Who Dies, and How the Adventure Finally Ends. I forgot “Who Falls in Love”…

Jamie: You forgot – yeah. [laughs]

Ben: …but there’s that in there, too.

[Andrew laughs]

Ben: Yeah, sale’s been good so far. You can purchase it at your local retail stores. All the books have been shipped out, so go out and buy it now. It has information on who we think is going to live, who we think is going to die, all that stuff.

Jamie: And how the adventure’s going to finally end. [laughs]

Ben: [laughs] Yeah, how the adventure’s going to finally end, so go buy it.

Andrew: Wait, you guys know?

Ben: We don’t know…

Jamie: Yeah, she told us. Yeah, she told us, didn’t she, Ben?

Ben: …but we have a good idea, we think.

Andrew: I’ve been seeing some e-mails. You guys have been getting some good reviews.

Jamie: Really?

Andrew: Congrats on that.

Jamie: Awesome.

Andrew: Well, congrats to myself, too. Andy Gordon is my penname, after all.

Jamie: Yep.

Ben: [laughs] Oh, shut up. It is not, for the millionth time.

Andrew: But, I’ve got a question for you guys. If I am an environmentalist…

Ben: Mhm.

Andrew: …the first question that comes to my mind about this book is…

Ben: It’s printed on recycled paper.

Andrew: …what percentage – okay, good.

Ben: [laughs] I just made that up, I don’t know if it is.

Andrew: Just wanted to clear that up. Oh.

[Jamie laughs]

Andrew: Well then, let me finish what I was saying. What – what’s the percentage of recycled paper? Because usually it says on the back of a book, like, you know, “This was 37 percent recycled paper.”

Jamie: It was 110 percent, wasn’t it, Ben? Something like that.

Andrew: Oh, wow.

Ben: Actually, I have a copy of it right here.

Kevin: It’s zero percent.

Ben: Let me see.

Andrew: Does it say?

Kevin: They’re killing the rainforest.

Andrew: Oh.

Ben: Let me see. On the back…

Kevin: Yep. You’re killing the rainforest.

Andrew: It might not actually say it. Some books do. [laughs]

Ben: No, it says, “This book is an independent and unauthorized fan publication. No endorsement or sponsorship by or affiliation with JK Rowling, [starts speaking quickly] her publishers, or other copyrighted trademarks…. [mumbles and laughs] It’s very nice. It is very nice, though. I have a copy of it right here.

[Kevin laughs]

Ben: Jamie, Jamie, they misspelled your name.

Kevin: Get to the paper part.

Jamie: Sorry?

Ben: They misspelled your name on the cover.

Jamie: No, they didn’t, Ben. No, they didn’t. I know, I’ve seen it.

[Andrew and Ben laugh]

Jamie: They have not, because now I know.

[Andrew and Ben continue to laugh]

Listener Rebuttal: Forbidden Forest

Andrew: Before we get into our main discussion this week, we have a rebuttal from everyone. And I want to remind everyone that we’re doing weekly wrap-ups on with some more of your listener rebuttals, so we can get more of them out there. We get a good – what? 200 e-mails a day, now? Rebuttals and stuff.

Laura: Yeah, something like that.

Andrew: That’s a lot! And we love reading all of them, and we’re trying to get as many of them out onto the site, and onto the podcast. But, anyway, this one comes from Zoë – there’s two dots over her “e,” so what the hell does that mean?

Ben: Zo-eh?

Andrew: Long e?

Laura: That means it Zoë [zoh-ee].

Andrew: Zo-eh?

Laura: No, Zoë [zoh-ee].

Jamie: That just means it’s not Zoh.

Laura: Zoë [zoh-ee].

Andrew: Zoë [zoh-ee].

Ben: It’s Zoë [zoh-ee], instead of zoh.

Jamie: Okay, I’ll probably get a million e-mails in telling me that I don’t know my name etymology, but it…

Ben: German.

Jamie: If it didn’t have those two words – which are umlauts, I think that’s what they’re called – it would be zoh, and it turns it into Zoë [zoh-ee].

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: All right, well Zoë…

Laura: That’s what I was saying.

Andrew: …18, from New York, writes about the Forbidden Forest. She just wanted to point out that JKR said in an interview, that Fluffy resides in the Forbidden Forest because, “Anything that is dangerous is released to the forest.” That was back in 2001. So, there’s another creature that lives in the forest for us.

Jamie: It must be very dense then, and it must be hard to get out of it then, because otherwise Fluffy could just escape and wander out.

Kevin: [laughs] Wander on to the school grounds and maul someone.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Yeah.

Kevin: Yeah.

Andrew: Unless it is just like instinct that they stay in there. Because they have got to find – they could find their way out. It’s not like there is a wall of trees that you can’t get through.

Ben: Well, it’s home.

Jamie: Yeah, but it could be magic though.

Andrew: It’s home, yeah.

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: Well, it wouldn’t matter, Andrew, for Dumbledore. This is a weird one [laughs] – it wouldn’t matter for Dumbledore because he gets every MuggleCast episode on his iPod before it is even recorded. [laughs] I like that one.

[Andrew does a fake laugh]

Ben: No. I don’t.

Andrew: How is that possible? Because I edit them.

Jamie: No, Andrew, no. It’s Dumbledore.

Andrew: And then put them up right away.

Laura: It’s a joke! [laughs]

Andrew: I know, Laura, and I’m countering the joke with my joke.

[Laura laughs]

Kevin: Which no one liked.

Laura: Yeah, really.

Main Discussion: Voldemort and Evil

Andrew: Let’s get into the main discussion this week. [does a Dr. Evil impression] Evil. Dr. Evil.

Ben: [Dr. Evil impression] Be evil.

Andrew: Everyone like my Austin Powers quote there? [Dr. Evil impression] Evil.

Laura: Not really. [laughs]

Andrew: I have my pinky to my mouth. [Dr. Evil impression] Evil.

Ben: [Dr. Evil impression] Be evil, but I have feelings too, change my life with Oprah and Maya Angelou.

Andrew: [Dr. Evil impression] Fire the laser.

Jamie: That’s very good, Andrew, very good. I almost feel like I’m in the room with Dr. Evil.

Ben: [Dr. Evil impression] Laser.

Are Voldemort’s Goals Worthwhile?

Jamie: Okay, so today I thought we would discuss: is evil a matter of opinion? We all consider Voldemort to be evil and Harry good, but does it depend on where you are looking at them from? Because Voldemort’s Death Eaters, I’m sure that some follow him out of fear and because they are scared of what will happen, but there have got to be some who actually agree with what he is doing. Sirius said that his mom agreed with what Voldemort was doing and only got cold feet when she realized exactly what lengths he would go to, to achieve his goal, and it kind of follows the phrase “One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter”. So, ignoring all morals and ethics, is Voldemort’s goal worthwhile as Harry’s and does it depend on how you are looking at him to decide whether he is good or evil – basically.

Andrew: How do you think that Voldemort’s goals could be worthwhile?

Laura: I don’t think so.

Jamie: Not the killing and stuff, but his ultimate goal is to run the magical world.

Laura: Is to kill all the Muggleborns. [laughs]

Kevin: Yeah.

Jamie: No, no. Okay, I knew I’d get ripped for this…

[Kevin laughs]

Jamie: …for this main discussion. That is not what I’m saying.

[Kevin and Laura laugh]

Ben: It wasn’t even me, man.

Jamie: Yeah I know, Ben, it wasn’t you. I’m very impressed.

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: I’ll buy you something nice for that. No, what I’m saying is that his ultimate goal is to achieve power. Okay? It doesn’t have anything to do… Killing people is his method, it isn’t his – I know it’s terrible; but as I said, ignoring all morals, is he just somebody who has a goal. And we have been – we think he is evil because all the books are called Harry Potter and the Whatever. We’ve sympathized with him – we’ve only ever heard words saying Voldemort is bad and stuff like that. Isn’t there any – you know, is that possible?

Ben: Well, the only thing would is if you honestly believe anyone that is Muggle-born or those things are actually detrimental to society.

Jamie: No, it’s not that. It’s just…

Ben: You know what I mean?

Laura: Yeah. [laughs]

Jamie: No, but…

Ben: What are you trying to say then? Is Voldemort just a – is he really a nice guy who is just [laughs] trying to achieve power?

Looking at Voldemort in a Different Light

Jamie: Okay, here’s one. Can we present him in a different light? Say a lonely, frightened soul killing because it’s the only thing he can do…

Laura: No.

Kevin [laughs] No.

Jamie: …and punishing those he is jealous of, shunning possible friends out of fear, and living a depraved half life, a cursed life, one in which he is feared when he wishes to be loved.

Laura: But that is what he lives.

Ben: No. He made those choices.

Laura: I don’t think so because Dumbledore said to Harry in Half-Blood Prince. He said, “Do you feel sorry for Voldemort? You shouldn’t because he was born evil.” And he had the choice, and he had the time to change that and he didn’t.

Jamie: Okay, well, loads of people have chances to change things and make things right. But they don’t, out of fear, out of, you know – I’m completely playing devil’s advocate here. Okay?

Laura: What did he have to fear though? He was more powerful than anyone around him.

Jamie: I’m completely playing devil’s advocate here.

Laura: He was more powerful than anyone around him.

Jamie: Fear of rejection.

Laura: Well, then play devil’s advocate but you have to defend it.

Jamie: I am! What do you think I’m doing? Fear of rejection…

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: …fear of losing his power. All people who gain power are scared of losing it. There is a way of presenting him in a better light. I know… I’m not saying… I know I’m going to get e-mails saying “Oh, how could you ever think that killing Muggles is good?” I’m not saying that. I’m just saying that it is possible to present him in a different light. We’ve ever seen the bad side of him. I know all through the books from his childhood to where he is now he has been presented as bad, but don’t you kind of feel sorry for that small boy Tom Riddle? Completely alone in that orphanage, scaring people because it was the only thing he knew.

Laura: Yeah. Don’t you feel sorry for that small boy Harry Potter who was locked up in a closet for all those years of his life?

Ben: Because of Tom Riddle.

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: Yes, of course. But…

Ben: But still, but still. The thing is…

Laura: No, Harry didn’t allow that to bring him down and Tom Riddle did.

Ben: But see, Tom Riddle is just a victim of the circumstances, I think. It was just one decision led to another, and next thing you know, he is this big evil lord.

Jamie: Killing people.

Ben: He took the initial step down the wrong path, and it became too late for him to redeem himself.

Jamie: And then it was a slippery slope, yeah.

Ben: Yeah, so.

Jamie: But, I don’t…

Laura: Yeah, well. It’s one thing to make a mistake, it’s quite another to torture children in a cave.

Jamie: But, yeah, I know. It is and it’s terrible, but…

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: …you can’t… I know it’s his fault there and then, but you can’t – loads of people, serial killers, people who are sociopaths, clinically diagnosed as sociopaths loads of them, most of them have terrible, terrible childhoods. You know, that can…

Laura: Yeah, but there comes a time when you have to stop blaming your childhood when you grow up.

Jamie: Yes, you do, of course you do, but you can’t say it isn’t a factor. Some people don’t know whether to not blame their childhood.

Laura: Well, sure it’s a factor.

Jamie: That is the thing. If it turns you into something that you don’t know is wrong, then you don’t think it needs to be fixed. And that is Voldemort.

Ben: For me, it’s like – in a way it’s like saying the child who grew up in poverty, it’s his fault. You know what I mean?

Jamie: Yeah.

Ben: If that makes any sense?

Andrew: How is it his fault?

Laura: It’s not. I know. It’s not saying that that is his fault.

Ben: It’s not. It’s not for Voldemort. Voldemort is just a victim of his circumstances.

Jamie: In some regards, yeah, he could be seen as that.

Laura: It is his fault that he didn’t get over it.

Jamie: No, it’s not. I cannot be his fault.

Ben: How is he supposed to?

Andrew: Not really. Because if you grow up with it, you’re kind of stuck.

Jamie: Laura, if there is no path to get over it, than you just can’t do it. You need to have a step up.

Laura: That’s not true, that is absolutely not true. My best friend, one of my best friends, you guys, is the daughter of an extremely racist woman, and she herself is not racist. She has gotten over that. So, you can get over stuff like that. You can’t just say that because you were brought up a certain way you can’t get beyond it.

Ben: But, no, no. If she was born racist, I mean, how can you blame her? You know what I mean?

Laura: Yeah.

Ben: If she was born that way, but she wasn’t.

Laura: No, she was…

Ben: It’s a difference. She chose not to take the influencing of her mother. It wasn’t like…

Laura: Yeah, but it takes a long time to get over stuff like that. I mean, the same way with Voldemort. You can be born with deranged… He’s just – I just think that he is really messed up.

Jamie: But some people are so firmly indoctrinated with it, that they don’t know that it’s a bad thing. If you’ve been told your entire life…

Laura: And that makes them wrong. [laughs]

Jamie: …that stealing is right. Yes, of course it does, it doesn’t make them bad because of it though. If they don’t know anything else.

Laura: You can’t say – yes it does!

Jamie: No it doesn’t!

Andrew: Jamie, are you saying that Voldemort knows no consequences, basically?

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: No, I’m not saying that. What I’m saying is, if you are taught, if you are brought up and you are told and told again that stealing is okay, then society – it is not your fault. Yes, you are wrong. You are entirely incorrect. However, it is not entirely your fault because of that. You can’t be expected to question everything that your parents tell you, especially at that early age. It is impossible to do that.

Kevin: It’s not your fault but upon society informing you that it is wrong, then, it’s your fault if you do it again. Because you have made the choice to ignore what is commonly accepted…

Laura: That it’s wrong.

Kevin: …as a standard in society and listen to your parents over that society and therefore you’re wrong.

Ben: Not necessarily, because if you were younger, this is continually basically pounded into your mind that stealing is okay…

Jamie: Precisely. It’s indoctrination.

Ben: …when you get older and then someone tells you…

Laura: But stealing is a…

Ben: Well, stealing isn’t commonly accepted. You’re going to say, “Well, that’s a bunch of crap. This is the way I was brought up. There’s no way my parents were…”

Jamie: Precisely, that’s exactly it. Exactly it.

Laura: Okay, but then, even if you didn’t believe that person, why the heck would you go into a store and think that stealing is okay?

Ben: Because you’re taught that way!

Laura: And they have these lovely things called cash registers where people are giving them money.

Ben: Okay, Laura, you’re missing the point.

[Laura and Andrew laugh]

Ben: You’re taught that stealing was okay. It isn’t like you go in there and you say, “Oh, cash registers.”

Laura: No.

Kevin: At a certain point, you get to think for yourself.

Laura: Yeah.

Kevin: And at that point, when you make the choice to continue stealing, then you’ve made that choice and you’re wrong.

Laura: And see, that’s the thing though. Voldemort wasn’t brought up believing anything. He always thought for himself, which makes him wrong.

Jamie: You’re saying “wrong” because you think that that’s wrong.

Laura: No, no. No one ever…

Jamie: You have you’re own opinions there.

Laura: No one ever brought him up saying it’s okay to go and hang bunny rabbits and torture children in a cave. So, he’s wrong.

Jamie: You’re saying he’s wrong from your own opinion. Why is what you think right?

Laura: No! It’s not an opinion!

Jamie: Of course it is.

[Laura laughs]

Ben: It’s like some ethical issues in society like stem cell research. Just because I think it’s okay…

Jamie: It doesn’t mean Ben’s right. No.

Ben: …doesn’t mean everyone does.

Jamie: And it doesn’t mean that’s right, either.

Laura: But the torture of a human being [laughs] is a little different.

Ben: What if they deserved it?

Jamie: Yeah.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: What if the bunny peed on the carpet?

Ben: Yeah.

Jamie: Yeah.

Ben: Then he deserves to get his little head chopped off.

Andrew: I think Jamie…

Laura: Well then, you know what? Then you guys should have killed me when I spilled that coffee all over the floor in LA.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: I was ready to. You spilled two things that…

Jamie: Well yeah, yeah exactly. We were planning to until John talked us out of it

Ben: Yeah, you started kicking everything over. You klutz.

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: I can’t help it that you guys had stuff all over that room.

Andrew: It was coffee. [laughs] Why do you have to call it “stuff?” I think Jamie and Ben are sticking up for it for discussion sake, Laura.

Jamie: No.

Andrew: I don’t think that…

Jamie: No, I’m not. I’m saying I agree wholeheartedly that somebody cannot say on ethical and moral issues that “you are wrong.” Because, that’s why you don’t use the word “correct” and “incorrect,” you use “right” and “wrong.” Murder is “wrong.” It’s not “incorrect.” It’s morally wrong.

Ben: He’s right.

Jamie: It’s not morally incorrect, it’s – that’s how it is. You cannot use – you can’t express your moral opinions as fact. It’s impossible.

Ben: So, things like the death penalty, abortion, etc. They are…

Jamie: Yeah, it’s wrong…

Ben: If there was a correct answer, it would be obvious. But, it’s all a matter of opinion what your perspective on it is.

Jamie: And taking it back to Harry Potter.

Ben: Harry Potter?

Jamie: Yeah, sorry I couldn’t remember the name of that book series we sometimes talk about.

[Everyone laughs]

Voldemort’s Upbringing Compared to Real-Life Situations

Jamie: I just… You just can’t say that because… I just think that if he had to have a different upbringing, things could be different. That’s what I’m saying. It’s… You can’t, you can’t deny that he had a bad life. And, I’m not saying that it’s not his fault that he didn’t try to change it, but it’s not his fault either that he didn’t know his mother, you know? All those kind of things. It’s just stuff like that.

Kevin: See, the argument against that is this. There are quite a few people living in poverty today, right? You’re raised in the gang area. Now, you join a gang and kill someone.

Andrew: Oooh.

Kevin: Many would argue you had to join the gang because it’s survival, but the…

Jamie: Yeah.

Kevin: …counter-argument is what about that kid down the street that went to Harvard? Just because you had a bad life, doesn’t mean you don’t have the moral basis to make a choice for yourself and try to change it.

Jamie: But, it doesn’t mean you do either. It doesn’t mean you do either. I know what you’re saying, but that would be taking into account…

Kevin: Taking into account what? They’re two people coming from the same place.

Jamie: Okay, if that went to trial – that murder case you were talking about – the fact that they lived where they did and joined the gang and that they joined the gang out of necessity. There’s a legal defense of necessity. Okay? Now that is the kind of thing that would come into play. They’d say, “I had to join this gang.” That’s why that case of murder is different from somebody who walks out onto the street and kills somebody just walking across the road. It is different.

Kevin: Either way, it’s tried as murder because you’ve killed someone.

Jamie: Of course it’s tried as murder, but that doesn’t mean that the outcome is…

Kevin: The only thing that will make it so that it’s not tried as murder is if you had an insanity defense which you could – you would have to prove that you didn’t know the difference between right and wrong.

Jamie: Well, there’s… Perhaps…

Kevin: Because you are a human being, you have the choice to pull the trigger or not. You have the moral basis for it.

Jamie: Yes, of course. Okay, Kevin, if somebody put a gun to… Okay, if somebody put a gun to, say, your mother’s head, okay? And said to you, said to…

Andrew: [laughs] That’s good to think about.

Jamie: No, no. Said to you, “Go out and kill the first person you see.” Okay?

Kevin: Right.

Jamie: Yeah? There are so many complications in that case that it would not go down as straight-out murder immediately. Okay? There are so many things to consider. If you went out and killed that person, yes, you have killed that person, but the question that would be asked is, were you so provoked that any rational, normal human being equally provoked would have committed the same crime that you committed?

Laura: But Voldemort wasn’t provoked. [laughs]

Ben: Hold on. Here’s the difference though. It’s a question of are people really victims of the circumstances?

Voldemort: Nature vs. Nurture

Jamie: Yes, nature versus nurture.

Ben: And to what extent are they? And is it… See, I think the difference was that Harry was born with the instinct, the fighter instinct that Voldemort wasn’t blessed with. You see what I’m saying?

Jamie: Yes, exactly.

Ben: So, it isn’t Voldemort’s fault. He fell victim to the circumstances when Harry was able to fight.

Jamie: The choice that he has made is to go out and kill people, not that he isn’t bad.

Kevin: But he made a choice.

Jamie: Yes, that is one choice. He could still be bad, but stop himself from killing people. He could have terrible thoughts about killing people you’d still think he was evil if he had those thoughts, even if he didn’t follow up and act on them. The fact that his choice is killing them, yes, he’s bad because of that, but the fact that he is able to do these things. There are people today that could not kill somebody. You know, who could just not do it even when so provoked they could never ever bring themselves to do that whereas Voldemort can and his choice is to do it. His choice is not to be able to do it, which is a product of his circumstance.

Laura: But what circumstance influenced that? He grew up in an orphanage.

Jamie: Yeah, he grew up orphaned.

Laura: It’s not like…

Ben: No parents.

Jamie: No parents, no friends.

Laura: Okay. Harry had no parents. Harry had no friends.

Jamie: Yes.

Laura: Not to mention I think he would have been more screwed up growing up with the Gaunt family than growing up in that orphanage.

Andrew: No, but you’ve got to think…

Laura: So, he’s probably lucky that his mom died. [laughs] Not to sound mean or anything.

Ben: Now, that’s just rude.

Jamie: That’s ridiculous.

Ben: No, because his mom was different than the rest of them, the rest of the Gaunts.

Laura: No, yeah but his mom submissed to everybody, and they were inbred and they were abusive. He could have grown up in a life of abuse…

Jamie: Laura. Laura.

Laura: …which is a lot worse than growing up in an orphanage.

Ben: No. You can’t make that determination.

Jamie: I know, you can’t always go – I know Dumbledore says it’s our choices that make us who we are. Yes, but you can’t start choosing from as soon as you’re born and that’s the thing.

Kevin: Yeah, but he was put in a circumstance that other people have been in and turned out completely normal.

Laura: Were in, yeah.

Jamie: He has. He did.

Kevin: But because of his choices, the choices that he made at that stage in his life, he’s evil.

Ben: Why did he make those choices though?

Kevin: He’s completely responsible.

Laura: Because he’s evil.

Kevin: Exactly. He’s completely responsible for himself.

Jamie: He made the choices because he didn’t know. No, that’s absolutely not true.

Ben: [laughs] That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. You’re trying to tell me if when I’m two years old, I take a butcher knife and I chop my mom’s head off that I made the conscience decision to do that?

[Andrew and Jamie laugh]

Andrew: Well, it depends on if you were living in a well-rounded family, everything was happy-go-lucky and then you just decided to go cut your mom’s head off, well, I’d think there’s something wrong with you.

[Andrew, Ben, and Laura laugh]

Laura: Yeah, but the thing is when you’re that young you don’t have any…

Andrew: Right. You don’t…

Laura: You don’t really know.

Ben: Yeah. That’s the point Jamie’s trying to make. You can’t make the choices when you’re that young and so it eventually leads up to the point when you can make the choice. Like it comes to the point when you can make the choice, but your background influences that choice.

Jamie: Exactly.

Laura: Okay, but if a five-year old kid doesn’t know that it’s wrong to chop off their mom’s head with a butcher knife, there’s something wrong. [laughs]

Jamie: They don’t see it like that though, Laura. It’s not seen like that when they do that.

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: You know, you’ve got to take into account their background as well. You can’t just say if two people…

Laura: I’m not saying there’s something wrong with them necessarily. I’m saying there’s something wrong.

Jamie: If two identical people, one with a terrible background, one with idyllic childhood, both kill someone, you’re saying that their cases are absolutely identical because there’s a choice.

Laura: No, I’m not.

Jamie: Well, there you go then. Then Voldemort…

Laura: I’m not saying they’re identical, but I’m saying that Voldemort grew up in an orphanage full of kids and none of them grew up to be murderers.

Jamie: How do you know?

Kevin: That’s exactly what my idea is.

Laura: They all received the same treatment.

Kevin: Exactly.

Jamie: Yes, you’re right and their correctness lies in the choices after a bad childhood. Voldemort is wrong to choose what he did. It doesn’t mean his childhood didn’t influence what he did. He just didn’t choose the same path as the other ones. You know, it could be a flaw that causes him to do that.

Andrew: Plus he could do magic.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: So, he sort of went a different way once he realized he could start doing magic.

Jamie: It’s a flaw that caused that. It’s not – you could say it’s a flaw in his character.

Ben: It’s not his fault.

Jamie: Exactly. You can’t just say that…

Laura: Yeah, a flaw in his character that he’s evil.

Jamie: No.

Ben: Right, but did he choose to be evil? Did he choose to be evil?

Laura: No, I don’t think so. I think he was born evil.

Andrew: I don’t think you can choose to be evil.

Ben: Then how can you blame him?

Jamie: Yeah, if he was born evil it’s not his fault.

Laura: What I’m saying is that – no, it’s not someone’s fault if they’re born evil, but, you can’t sit there and say, “Oh well, you know, we should look at them in a good light or any of that. We should look at them in a different light.” We should look at them in a different light.

Jamie: I’m not saying we should look at them in a good way.

Ben: Good and bad is all relative. Voldemort’s followers think he’s doing the greatest thing ever, you know.

Jamie: Yeah.

Ben: It’s all relative.

Jamie: One man’s terrorist…

Ben: He said, “One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.”

Jamie: One man’s Harry Potter…no, actually not.

Kevin: This sounds like a philosophy class.

Jamie: It is a philosophy class.

Laura: Yeah. [laughs]

Tangent: Spells, Curses, Jinxes and Hexes

Jamie: That’s exactly what it is. Okay, moving on from this then, digressing slightly; aren’t the names of the spells, curses, jinxes, hexes just a matter of opinion too? As Hermione… As Hermione insinuates in Order of the Phoenix when she says that what Slinkhard calls counter curses or something like that, aren’t really. They’re sort of anti-jinxes or something like that. Isn’t that true?

Andrew: What does Hermione say?

Jamie: Okay. Curses, jinxes, hexes have really negative connotations, yeah? Whereas a spell and a…

Ben: A charm.

Jamie: …have good connotations. Yeah, charm. Aren’t they relative? Sorry, aren’t they subjective terms? Couldn’t one man’s hex be another man’s charm?

[Andrew, Kevin, and Laura laugh]

Kevin: Wow.

Andrew: I guess so.

Ben: I know, but you have a Charms class that’s the only thing.

Andrew: Well, one man’s hex can be another man’s charm. Well, wouldn’t that be like Voldemort’s – no. Yeah, if Voldemort’s using a hex it’s a charm to him. Is that what you’re saying?

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: It’s a subjective term calling it that. It is, though. I’m not saying that Avada Kedavra is a nice, nice charm. But…

[Andrew and Ben laugh]

Laura: Well, it is to use on some people.

Jamie: Yes, well perhaps it is. Perhaps…

Ben: We’ll have a value debate.

[Laura laughs]

Back to Voldemort

Jamie: Okay, back to… Ben don’t worry. Okay. We don’t blame Harry for having thoughts like in Order of the Phoenix when he, you know, scoffs and laughs at Ron at becoming a Prefect. You just don’t see the thoughts of everyone else’s world. You just see the evilness of Voldemort. There is – we’re so engrained with thinking that Harry’s the hero, which he is, the hero, of course he’s the hero, and that that side is good that we just… There’s like, a barrier between us. I’m not – as I’m going to keep saying, as I know I’m going to get e-mails about this, I’m not saying that Voldemort is a nice, nice person. He’s a horrible, horrible person, but as Mr. Ollivander says in Book One, “He did great things. Terrible things, absolutely terrible things, but great things.” You’ve got to, you’ve got to…

Andrew: Commend him for that? [laughs]

Jamie: He’s a…

Andrew: Give him a plaque? [laughs]

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: You’ve got to commend him for that! Yes. I’m going to give him a badge next time I see him. And a slice of cake. Okay.

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: What I’m saying is, he did – he is a clever, clever, clever guy, as well. This is… Okay, this is…

Laura: Oh yeah.

Jamie: …this is moving slightly from the good versus evil…

Kevin: Well…

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: …but he’s clever in how he…

Andrew: That’s what he’s doing. [laughs]

Jamie: …in how he… Yeah, in how he does things. He cheats, jinxes.

Kevin: He kills. [laughs]

Jamie: I know, I’m not saying it’s good, but that’s – stuff like that. He’s… But you’ve got, we’ve got to look at it from his side, as well. His childhood, where he is now. You just can’t look at him and say, “He’s evil and it’s his fault.” Basically.

Andrew: Well, he’s got big you-know-whats come to think of it.

Laura: Well, it’s not his fault that he’s evil… Okay, it’s not his fault that he’s evil, but it’s his fault that he didn’t work to change that. [laughs] That’s what I’m saying.

Kevin: Yeah, I…

Jamie: But what you’re saying. You’re saying…

Ben: But there’s a psychological mindset. How can you go against it?

Andrew: Yeah.

Jamie: Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Andrew: This, this relates. In my health class, we were learning about fetal alcohol syndrome. Everyone know about this? And…

Laura: Yes.

Jamie: No.

Andrew: [laughs] What we learned, what the teacher was telling us was that the – when you have fetal alcohol syndrome, you see no consequences. Like, if you – and we watched this video where there were stories of these kids. If you, there was this one kid who, he turned on the bath and then left the water running and it overflowed, but that’s what his dad told him to do – to keep the water running when he’s getting in the shower. He just kept it running and there was no consequence and he completely ruined the house. But, what I’m saying is, there are psychological cases where it isn’t your fault, like that.

Jamie: No, yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s… See, I think you’ve…

Laura: Yeah, but…[sighs]

Jamie: …completely missed my point, though. I’m not saying that he’s good, but…

Kevin: You’re saying from his perspective, from his perspective things…

Andrew: We know that.

Jamie: You just can’t…

Andrew: Yeah, it’s not his choice.

Laura: Yeah, and it is all subjective, but…

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: …that’s point of the discussion. [laughs] So, I don’t why… [laughs]

Andrew: On the other hand, there’s no real proof that it was his choice. We’re just doing this for discussion’s sake, aren’t we?

Laura: Well, didn’t Dumbledore say that he was pretty much born evil? I thought that’s what he said.

Ben: Or JK Rowling said that, too.

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: If you’re born evil, then surely that solves the discussion that if you’re… I mean, you say that other people are faced with a similar childhood and that they make choices to get out of their depravity, but how many people do you know who have been born evil? I’m sure he’s like, one in a million who have been born evil.

Kevin: Well, I mean, I’m sure there’s people out there who are psychos, but they do not act on their tendencies because they know it’s not accepted by society.

Ben: No, that – but then they’re not psychos. If they can make the choice.

Jamie: Yeah. So, that concludes our main discussion for the week. A poll will be put up asking if you agree that Voldemort can be considered in a different light or if he is innately, completely, manifestly, majestically, uncontrollably evil. So, thank you.

Dueling Club: Lily vs. Bellatrix

Andrew: We’re going to have another dueling club right now. This one comes from Tom, 14, of – eh, what’s this called? This town here? [mispronounces] Hertfordshire? That’s kind of a weird name.

Jamie: Huh? Where’s that? Where’s that?

Andrew: [mispronounces] Hertfordshire? Is that how you say it?

Jamie: Hertfordshire. [laughs]

Andrew: [mispronounces] Hertfordshire?

Ben: [laughs] It’s in England, isn’t it?

Jamie: Hertfordshire.

Andrew: Whatever. Hertfordshire. That’s what I said.

Jamie: Why do Americans have such trouble pronouncing English cities?

Andrew: Because it’s like three words mashed into one. Tom writes:

“Hey, I was on your site looking in the encyclopedia and I came across the characters Bellatrix and Lily. I was wondering who would you think would win in a duel if both of them ever fought?”

Obviously, before Lily died. And I thought that’s a kind of an interesting duel.

[Jamie groans]

Ben: [laughs] No, after she died.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Well, what if… What if Bellatrix – they fought after she died?

Ben: [laughs] Bella’s, Bella’s a nasty witch, that’s for sure.

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, I would, I would happen to agree.

Jamie: But she’s a very powerful nasty person, as well. Even though she’s horrible, she’s very, very powerful. But Lily, you know…

Andrew: And I mean, Lily was good at spells and not much else. So, well, I don’t know that, but…

Laura: That’s not true! She was good at potions! [laughs]

Andrew: What? That’s what I just said! She was good at potions.

Laura: You said spells.

Andrew: I meant potions.

Kevin: You said spells.

Andrew: I meant potions. Laura, what do you think? Who would win in a duel, Bellatrix or Lily?

Laura: I don’t know. I think, I’m trying to decide. It’s really hard because obviously we’ve seen a lot more of Bellatrix in a fighting arena. Well, we haven’t actually seen Lily fight at all, so it’s kind of hard to say. I think that Bellatrix is – I don’t know. I guess a cheater would be the best way to put it. Like, she’s kind of… She’ll go out of her way to trip someone up. She won’t properly duel. Whereas I might see Lily being a bit more…

Andrew: Proper?

Laura: You know what I’m saying? Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah. But if it was a – if it was a formal duel, I would still think Bellatrix would win because, like I just said, Lily is a potions girl, sort of like we were talking about.

Ben: Right, but she’s pretty clever.

Laura: Yeah, but didn’t Ollivander say that her wand was good for charms?

Ben: Well, or hexes. I mean, depends on your interpretation.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Kevin, what do you think?

Kevin: No, I don’t know. I would say I don’t know. We haven’t seen enough of Lily to actually make a judgment on it.

Jamie: Well, we haven’t seen anything of Lily. [laughs]

[Andrew laughs]

Kevin: [laughs} Yeah.

Jamie: She died, remember?

Kevin: Hey, she’s good at jumping in front of things.

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: Yeah.

Listener Rebuttal: Proof Snape is NOT Evil

Andrew: Olivia, 17, of Wellington, New Zealand has another rebuttal for us. She writes:

“I was just re-reading Prisoner of Azkaban and something stuck out to me that I had never thought was significant until just now. When Lupin leads his class into the staff room to vanquish the boggart, Snape is the only other person in the room. He says, “Leave the door open, Lupin. I’d rather not witness this.” He goes on to berate Neville, and then leaves the room. Is it possible that Snape doesn’t want to know what Harry’s worst fear is, lest Voldemort somehow extract this knowledge from him? If so, this puts considerable weight behind the ‘Snape is Good’ theory. What Death Eater wouldn’t want to know the chosen one’s worst fear? And I know that Voldy has not returned yet in this part of the story, but Snape knows that he’s still out there and likely to come back sometime. Just wanted to know what you thought.”

Laura: That’s very good.

Jamie: I think, I think it’s an awesome, it’s an awesome sort of bit at the beginning, but I think she’s gone… I mean, this kind of provoked me to think, and I think that instead of it being that Snape doesn’t what to know what Harry’s worst fear is, he doesn’t want to see himself dressed as…

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: …you know, in the clothes.

[Kevin laughs]

Jamie: So, perhaps he’s performing Occlumency on Neville. Sorry, he’s performing Legilimency.

Laura: Well, it’s a good theory…

Jamie: Yes.

Laura: …to support the ‘Snape is Good’ camp.

Jamie: Yes, it is. So…

Andrew: I don’t know because…

Jamie: I wouldn’t call it the most solid theory ever, but it’s very good. Yeah

Andrew: It just seems like Snape wouldn’t really care for this sort of thing.

Laura: Yeah, I mean it could be that too.

Andrew: “I’d rather not witness this, I’ve got better things to do.” That’s sort of his attitude all the time, anyway.

Jamie: Yeah, that’s true. That’s true actually, yeah.

Laura: It could go either way.

Kevin: Yeah, it sort of sounds like he’s trying to make it out to be pathetic.

Andrew: Yeah.

Kevin: You know? Like “Oh, this is pathetic.”

Andrew: Yeah.

Kevin: “I don’t want to see these kids’ fears.”

Andrew: Thank you Olivia, for sending that in.

Interview: Potter Puppet Pals

Andrew: We have an interview now with the folks who produce Potter Puppet Pals, which is a
funny flash website that produces different Harry Potter skits. Most notably, “Sexy Snape,” which is a flash version of Snape…

Ben: Oh, yeah.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: …”I’m too sexy for my body.” It’s actually really funny. They just released a new video, and we have an interview with them now.

I am now joined by Neil’s Cicierega who is the creator of Potter Puppet Pals. Neil?

Neil: Hey.

Andrew: Thanks for coming on the show today with us. We just had a couple questions for you because you guys just released a new Potter Puppet Pals short. But before I ask you about that, could you tell us a little bit about Potter Puppet Pals and how you originally came up with the idea for it?

Neil: I guess the idea of Harry Potter characters as puppets, something about that stuck out. My sister and some of her friends, I guess, liked to draw comics featuring puppet versions of the Harry Potter characters and it was funny. So I’m like, “I’m going to record their voices and animate them.”

Andrew: Oh, okay.

Neil: I did not – mhm?

Andrew: Did you have experience with doing flash animations beforehand? Or did you learn it just for this?

Neil: I had had some, yeah. Not like really animating. My sister’s the artist – my sister Emmy. She does animations a lot better, but I decided to try my hand at more traditional animation. But I definitely did a lot of stuff in flash before then, but it was a lot more random and less cute.

Andrew: Right. So, are you guys both pretty big Harry Potter fans?

Neil: Yeah, since, I don’t know, 2000 or so. Yeah, for quite a while.

Andrew: Oh, okay. How long does it take you to produce one of these?

Neil: Well, the animations were a lot harder. I actually get them done pretty quick, considering how hard it is to animate.

Andrew: Yeah.

Neil: But by the time… But after I’d made the first two animations, for some reason it got a lot harder to see it all through, so that’s why I never created a third animation. But the puppets, the real puppets? Well, it took a long time to actually make the puppets.

Andrew: Was that your sister, Emmy or who came up with these?

Emmy: Our mom did.

Neil: Oh, yeah, our mom actually made the puppets.

Andrew: Oh, okay. [laughs]

Neil: She’s just the only person who can sew.

Emmy: There’s no way we could have made them.

[Andrew laughs]

Andrew: You guys are just the computer people?

Emmy: Yeah, we’re computer people, not crafty people.

Andrew: Yeah.

Neil: Mhm.

Andrew: Now, one of your bigger, one of your more successful videos – well, I would think – is “Sexy Snape,” as it’s called.

Neil: Yeah, that one’s kind of a runaway hit, I guess.

Andrew: Yeah. How’d you come up with the idea for that?

Emmy: I told him to do it.

Andrew: Oh, did you? [laughs] Did you?

Neil: Yeah, the idea was of Snape dancing to that song.

Emmy: On a runway.

Neil: On a runway.

Andrew: Right.

Neil: I never finished it because I didn’t expect it to be a serious animation, it was just was purely self-amusement. But we stuck it up on the website anyway and some people found it and it spread around on its own.

Andrew: Right. Was that one of your first Potter Puppet Pals?

Neil: Well, I guess it’s not really a puppet video.

Andrew: Well, right, but I mean just one of your first videos.

Neil: I think that came after the Puppet Pals.

Emmy: Yeah.

Neil: I know it looks a lot cruder.

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs] Yeah, because the animation of that one is pretty – sort of cheesy, and I think that’s what makes it so funny.

Emmy: Yeah.

Andrew: Is that his mouth is just opening up and down, it’s pretty funny.

Neil: Yeah, I wasn’t trying to go for anything too fancy with that one.

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]

Emmy: It was just different.

Neil: Yeah.

Andrew: Which one are you most proud of, would you say?

Neil: Which one are we most proud of?

Andrew: Yeah.

Neil: Oh, I don’t know. I usually like the latest stuff. I love the live action puppets because they’re really fun to play around with and film and they’re so much easier than animating.

Andrew: Right.

Emmy: What are you talking about? It’s hard holding the puppets.

[Andrew laughs]

Neil: Well, in the last animation I didn’t actually have to hold the puppets up. I got Emmy and our friend Laura – because I wanted to be behind the camera.

Andrew: Uh huh. How long does it take for you guys, usually, to come up with a script for one of these?

Emmy: We just sit down and we write it, like, at three in the morning. It’ll take a couple hours and we’ll find it a couple days after that.

Neil: Yeah.

Emmy: But we’ll mostly just sit down and do whatever makes us laugh the most.

Andrew: Oh, okay. Now, how big – how many views do you get on these videos?

Neil: I’m not sure. I haven’t checked. [laughs] I know the original few animations have probably gotten a lot by now, because – I don’t know.

Emmy: Millions.

Neil: Yeah, I don’t know. I’m not sure of the numbers. I know on New Ground they got several thousand views.

Andrew: Wow.

Neil: A lot of them – yeah. A lot of views came from MuggleNet, actually. Originally.

Andrew: Oh, okay. Yeah. I remember when we posted about that, and still, frequently, we’re always getting e-mails from people telling us to check it out. We’ve been getting a lot of emails lately about your new video called “Wizard Angst.”

Neil: Mhm.

Andrew: Is that what it’s called? Could you tell us about that one? That’s a puppet style video, right?

Neil: I think it’s – technically it’s the third video we’ve made with the puppets. The first was just a little teaser animation with just puppet Snape, sort of staring into the camera while a Cure song played. That was just to get people’s interest.

Andrew: Yeah.

Neil: And let them know that we’re going to make some stuff with real puppets. And then I made a sort of test video, which we didn’t have a stage yet so we filmed it from behind the couch.

[Emmy laughs]

Andrew: Oh, okay.

Neil: That one is called “Potions Class,” and that still gets a lot of views anyways even though it’s…

Emmy: Crappy.

Neil: Yeah. Well, it’s not crappy, it’s still pretty funny. But it’s not full quality. And “Wizard Angst” is the first official episode, and we filmed it with pretty much the completed puppets and a nice stage with curtains and everything, and changing camera shots. It looks really nice.

Andrew: Yeah, I’m looking at it now. It’s… [laughs] It looks very good. Now, you said this is the first of a series of episodes you’re doing?

Neil: Yeah, hopefully. We’re going…

Andrew: Is it – go ahead.

Neil: We’re going to. Every once in a while, we’re just going to be like, “Hey, let’s make a new puppet video.” and we’ll be like okay, and we will write a script, and we’ll go down to the stage and film it.

Andrew: Oh, okay. Now are these – is it going to stretch out across an entire storyline, or are they all different themes to them.

Emmy: They’re just random.

Neil: They’re just random.

Andrew: [laughs] Okay. Now you guys are going to be performing, I guess I could say, at Yule Ball in Massachusetts come December.

Neil: Mhm. Yeah, December 10th at the Middle East in Cambridge. Harry and the Potters are putting on a Yule Ball show. They’re doing two shows on that day, an early one, and a late one, and we’re doing the earlier one, which is around noon. And we’re doing to be opening for them with a whole bunch of Wizard Rock bands.

Emmy: Draco and the Malfoys.

Neil: Yeah, and all those kids.

Andrew: Cool.

Neil: We’ll do an actual skit in front of the audience with the puppets, right there in front of everybody.

Andrew: Very cool. Did you guys come to them with this idea, or did they come to you?

Neil: We came to them, pretty much. After a show when they were all tired and sweaty.

Andrew: Okay [laughs]

Neil: We went up and were like, “Hey. We made Potter Puppet Pals. We’re going to be in your show, okay?”

Andrew: Uh huh.

Neil: They had heard of us. I don’t know if – I’m pretty sure they had seen the videos before, but they told us that they see a lot of people wearing Potter Puppet Pals shirts at their shows, and they said it was a really cool idea for us to open for them at some point, so they got us this gig.

Andrew: Ah, cool.

Neil: There will be more in the future, hopefully.

Andrew: Cool. Is this going to be a new skit, or are you guys going to do one that you’ve already created?

Emmy: It’s going to be new.

Neil: I think we might try – we’ll incorporate a little of old stuff into it, just because it will get big fan reactions, I think.

Andrew: Right.

Neil: But we’re going to try and make it a new skit, and we’re thinking of having little musical segments since it’s a rock show.

Emmy: Yeah.

Neil: And we’re going to have a mini musical, basically.

Andrew: Oh, very cool. Now tell me, who does the voice of Snape? Because it’s probably the…

Neil: That’s me.

Andrew: Is it you? Because it’s probably the funniest voice I’ve ever heard. [laughs]

Emmy: He does all the voices of all the puppets, even Hermione.

Andrew: Oh, you do?

Neil: It’s funny. Usually I pitch Hermione’s voice up just a little bit, but they’re all mine.

Andrew: [laughs] Okay. Can you do a little Snape for us right now?

Neil: [in Snape voice] I suppose I can.

Andrew: [laughs] Can you say, “This is MuggleCast.”

Neil: [in Snape voice] This is MuggleCast.

Andrew: [laughs] Very nice.

Neil: [in Snape voice] The greatest programming on the Internet.

Andrew: [laughs] It’s a very boring tone, I really like it. What’s next for Puppet Pals outside of this little live gig that you guys are doing?

Neil: Oh, I don’t know. I guess we’ll just keep making the videos, trying to spread them out to the world…

Emmy: Keep topping ourselves.

Neil: Keep topping ourselves.

Andrew: Uh huh. Well, you guys are doing a great job, and I know everyone is really enjoying them, and if anyone wants to know more about Potter Puppet Pals, or watch more videos, you can go to Neil and Emily, thanks for – er, Neil and Emmy, thanks for joining us today.

Neil: Thanks.

Dumbledore/Norris Update

Jamie: Okay, Dumbledore/Norris facts will return. I had a few e-mails telling me you want them back, and I had a few good ones being sent in as well. I’m a bit under-prepared, so I’m not going to do any this week, but I’m going to come back next week with an ultra-load of Dumbledore/Norris facts.

Listener Rebuttal: Centaurs

Andrew: We have a final rebuttal now for everyone. Susan, sixteen of Wisconsin. She writes:

“Hey MuggleCasters! I was listening to Episode 63 and I wanted to add something to your Forbidden Forest discussion. When you were talking about the centaurs, you mentioned how they might help Harry in the next book. I don’t think they would help even if they wanted the ‘good’ side to win or vice versa. They don’t believe fate should be tampered with and that’s why they were angry with Firenze for helping Harry in the first book, not because they wanted Harry to die. Of course, you’ll always get the odd one like him that isn’t against affecting the outside world, so there may be a group of them that we see in the seventh book (obviously Firenze can’t go back now), but I think the majority will just want to let time take its course. To them, it’s not right or wrong, it’s fate.

Good point, Susan.

Jamie: Can I point out that she put the word “good” in speech marks to show that even though Harry’s…

Andrew: It’s not…

Jamie: ..side is considered good, it is not…

Andrew: Yeah.

Jamie: And no, it’s not right or wrong, it’s fate. Thank you Susan, I like you.

Andrew’s McDonald’s Update

Andrew: I have an update on our new McDonald’s listener challenge. It’s going very well. McDonald’s across the world are getting promotional ads for MuggleCast placed in their fine restaurants, and I want to remind everyone that you have until the end of the month to go in there, take a picture of yourself with a MuggleCast promotional sign, whether it’s on the soda fountain or it can be anywhere in McDonald’s, and we got a lot of e-mail complaints about this, because we were limiting it to McDonald’s. You can put it anywhere. I don’t really care.

Jamie: Anywhere.

Andrew: Just promote us. That’s what I’m trying to say.

Ben: Wendy’s?

Andrew: Sure. Yeah. Wendy’s, yeah.

Kevin: Be creative.

Andrew: [laughs] Not your own house. It had to be somewhere out in public where people can see it, because we like getting word out about the show. No harm in that. So you have until the end of the month.

Laura: Yeah, people were complaining because they thought that we were [laughs] being endorsed by McDonald’s or something. It was kind of ridiculous. [laughs]

Andrew: No, of course not. We are.

[Laura laughs]

Ben: Seriously, McDonalds has much higher promotional campaigns like TV, than to use our podcast.

Kevin: They’ve been… Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah. By the way, everyone, I’d like to announce that we are now sponsored by McDonald’s, that’s

[Ben, Kevin and Laura laugh]

Andrew: So anyway, you do have until the end of the month to send in your pictures, and we’ll post them for everyone to see. We’re going to give away something. We don’t know what yet. I guess a t-shirt and a free coupon to McDonald’s.

Laura: And a Big Mac.

Andrew: A free cookie fun pack.

Jamie’s British Jokes of the Day

Andrew: Jamie, you want to wrap things up today with a British joke?

Jamie: I do. I’ve got two today.

[Laura and Andrew laugh]

Jamie: First one: There is a family sat in a restaurant when several people burst in riding huge, massive eggs. They ride around the room, but then the eggs smash and the people fall and die. The father says to his kids, “See kids, that’s why you should never mount your chickens before they hatch.”

[Andrew and Laura laughs]

Jamie: That was from…

Andrew: I’m dying here.

Jamie: Richard from London. Well, that was from Richard from London, who, for age, has put 742, so I’m assuming he’s made a typo there, but he could be our oldest listener yet. I would really like that.

Jamie: This is quite hard to get, but see if you like it. A frog walks – you have to listen carefully. A frog walks into a bank and walks up to the clerk. He looks at her name-tag and says, “Hello, Patty Whack. My name is Mr. Jagger, and I’d like a loan.” Patty Whack says, “All right, Mr. Jagger. And what will your collateral be?” The frog puts his hand into his pocket and pulls out a small pink elephant. Patty Whack looks at it for a second, then says, “I’m not sure if we can take that. Will you excuse me for a minute? I’m going to ask the boss.” She tells the boss about the frog and shows him the pink elephant. Her boss looks at her and says, “It’s a knick-knack, Patty Whack, give the frog a loan. His old man’s a Rolling Stone.”

[Everyone laughs]

Ben: That actually – I actually like that one.

Andrew: That’s funny!

Laura: Yeah, that was actually cool. [laughs]

Jamie: Good, I’m glad you do, Ben.

Andrew: Ah, for once.

PO Box Update

Andrew: Ben, you’re going to wrap things up today with a PO Box update I hear?

Ben: [makes a shivering noise] Sorry, I ran outside barefoot and it’s like two degrees, and… Yeah.

Jamie: It’s not, Ben, it’s always warm in America.

Ben: See what I do, what I do for MuggleCast.

[Andrew laughs]

Ben: Okay.

Andrew: That must have been really hard. [laughs]

Kevin: He’s like shivering!

Ben: From Lisa and

Laura: they said they want to thank me for my good work and everyone on the show for their excellent work, and this letter was addressed to me. It says, “You’re my friend Laura’s favorite.” Hey! Coincidentally enough, I’m this Laura’s favorite too! MuggleCast Laura, I’m her favorite too.

[Andrew and Kevin laugh]

Laura: Oh, yeah! Absolutely.

Ben: It says… And then she says, Lisa says, “I think Andrew’s the best. Sorry, but I love you all.”

Andrew: Thank you, Lisa.

Ben: But something interesting is Laura and Lisa, Lisa and Laura, Lisa and Laura, Laura and Lisa sent me an autographed Yellowcard poster! Now how cool is that?

Andrew: Awww!

Jamie: Awww, that’s very nice.

Ben: It’s personalized! It says – I don’t know if they wrote the “To Ben” on that, but regardless, it’s awesome. It is signed by all the band members, and it says Lights and Sounds. I love you guys. I love you all!

Andrew: Was it really signed by them?

Ben: This is awesome. Yeah! I’m serious! It is!

Kevin: It’s probably forged.

Jamie: Ben…

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: What’s your e-Bay user name?

Andrew: Way to rain on the parade.

Ben: What’s that, Jamie?

Jamie: What’s your e-Bay username? I’ll be checking it closely in the next few days. [laughs]

Ben: [laughs] No, it’s probably personalized. It has my name on it, so…

Jamie: Yeah, but think about it.

Ben: So, thank you.

Andrew: If anyone wants to…

Ben: Just hope another Ben wants a Yellowcard poster or something?

Jamie: Yeah, exactly! Yeah.

[Andrew laughs]

[Show Close music begins]

Ben: Thank you all, though. Seriously. Thank you for everything. Continue sending anything, letters and stuff – I’ll read some letters on the show next week. Those were in my trunk underneath a bunch of boxes. So I – and it was too cold out there for me to get them. So, next week, I’ll read letters.

Andrew: Cool!

Jamie: Awesome.

Andrew: And if anyone wants to send me a poster of U2 with all of their signed autographs…

Jamie: Of U2? [laughs]

Andrew: It doesn’t have to be personally addressed. You don’t have to put my name on it.

Ben: Send it to:
PO Box 223
Moundridge, Kansas 67107

Andrew: You can call us: 1-218-20-MAGIC (62442). I just renewed our phone number, so you guys better use it.

Kevin: Oh, that’s good.

Andrew: It cost us like – what, forty-three dollars? That’s breaking the bank. Everyone use it! [laughs] And if you’re in the United Kingdom, you can call 020-8144-0677. If you’re in Australia, you can dial 02-8003-5668. You can also Skype the username MuggleCast and leave a voicemail question. Speaking of voicemails, Episode 66 we will be doing an entire voicemail show. We’re not going to have a main discussion or anything. We might have little segments still, but it’s just going to be focused on voicemails. We’re going to have a good 10-15 voicemail questions answered to attempt to break ice on the amount of voicemail questions that we do get. So, keep them coming, and make them good questions! [laughs] Please. Also, you can listen at and use our feedback form to get in touch with anyone of us. You can also complain about the show, you can make a suggestion, you can give us a submission; tell us if you have trouble downloading MuggleCast. It’s all there on the site. And don’t forget to visit our MySpace! We want 5,000 friends. That’s our goal. We’re going to do something.

Ben: By tomorrow.

Kevin: Well, I…

Andrew: That’s doable.

[Ben laughs]

Andrew: There’s how many people on MySpace? 54 million? [laughs] So once again, I’m Andrew Sims.

Ben: I am Ben Schoen.

Jamie: I’m Jamie Lawrence.

Kevin: I’m Kevin Steck.

Laura: And I’m Laura Thompson.

Andrew: We’ll see everyone next week for MuggleCast Episode 65, with a special interview with the creators of the Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix video game. So it’ll be a show you don’t want to miss. Buh-bye!

[Show music ends]


Kevin: No, all I’m saying is that if you are addicted to something, like alcohol in Laura’s case, and you…

[Everyone laughs]

Kevin: No, no, I’m sorry, not – in Laura’s example, I should say. In her example!

Andrew: Oh, okay.

Jamie: [laughs] That was funny. Put that in.

Micah: USA Today published four brand new photos from the Order of the Phoenix movie in an article which also contains a new interview with Dan Radcliffe. The photos show Voldemort, Sirius, Umbridge, and Harry and Cho kissing.

Now I’m going to share a story with you about USA Today, and you have no choice but to listen. I was at work on Friday. I went to Not that I ever condone going to non-related sites when you’re at work, but nonetheless, I did. And I saw that these pictures were in the paper that day, and so I decided, “On the way home, I’m going to pick up USA Today and I’m going to take a look at these pictures.” And I leave early from work, get to the train, and completely forget to pick up the paper! Now, as luck would have it, what do you think happened? The whole reason behind telling this story – not to waste your time – I get into the train, I go to sit down, and what is sitting on my seat, but USA Today. If that’s not fate, I don’t know what is!


Written by: Micah, Allison, Briana, Jessica, Judy, Mandie, Martina, Matt, Megan, Roni, Samantha, Sarah, Shannon and Shelly

Transcript 063

MuggleCast 63 Transcript

Show Intro

Andrew: Get $96.00 in free extras from your domain name from Each domain includes free hosting with a website builder, a free blog, complete email and much more. Plus, as a MuggleCast listener just enter code “Muggle” when you checkout and save an additional ten percent on any order. Some restrictions apply, see site for details. Get your own piece of the internet today at

[Show Intro music]

Andrew: Because Tuesday is an important day for all fans of the show, this is MuggleCast Episode 63 for November 12, 2006.

[More show intro music]

Pickle Appreciation Day

Andrew: Did you guys know Tuesday, November 14th is National Pickle Day?

Laura: I did not.

Jamie: Can’t say I did.

Andrew: Really? Why not? It’s like a big national holiday.

Jamie Yeah.

Andrew: Actually, it’s – sorry it’s Pickle Appreciation Day.

Jamie: Sorry, who created this? Who created…

Laura: We don’t eat pickles in Georgia.

Andrew: I don’t know, Jamie, I don’t know. I tried to look it up and I couldn’t find any information on it.

Jamie: The American Pickle Society.

Andrew: Someone emailed in and then I went on – they gave me a link to a greeting card website, you know where you can send greeting cards for like holidays?

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: And there is one for Pickle Appreciation Day. So, we’ll provide the link in the show notes and everyone can go send each other Pickle Appreciation Day e-cards via e-mail.

Jamie: Which you’ll all want to do, definitely.

Andrew: Yeah, and please send some to mugglecast at staff dot mugglenet dot com. So I hope everyone is going to be celebrating, I know I am.

Jamie: Oh yeah.

Ben: And eating a lot of pickles.

Andrew: I will be eating various assortments of pickles that day and…

Laura: Well, you know…

Ben: Raise your hand if you like pickles.

Andrew: I’m raising my hand, Ben, over here.

Jamie: I’m half raising my hand. It’s a love-hate thing.

Ben: I hate them.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Actually, no, I’m kidding I really hate the taste of them, they’re bad.

Ben: Like, when I get a hamburger, I just have it plain – just cheese.

Andrew: Yeah, me too. Ketchup only.

Ben: Yeah, ketchup – ketchup only.

Laura: Oh, no, I love pickles on my hamburgers. They’re good.

Eric: No, yeah – pickles on a cheeseburger. I only eat pickles if they…

Jamie: Ben, are you the kind of person who goes to McDonald’s and is like, “Yeah, please can I have a Big Mac, but please can I not have cheese…”

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: “…but please can I have extra mayonnaise, but please can I have no pickles.”

Ben: No, no, no, I say, “can I…”

[Jamie laughs]

Ben: I think I’m going to say, “Can I get a cheeseburger plain?”

Jamie: Ben?

Ben: Then I apply my own ketchup later.

Eric: It takes them significantly longer though…

Jamie: Of course it does, of course it does.

Eric: …Ben, I just pull off the pickles.

Andrew: Speaking of McDonald’s, we have a special new listener challenge later in the show that is going to change the way we all visit McDonalds. I’m Andrew Sims.

Ben: I’m Ben Schoen.

Jamie: I’m Jamie Lawrence.

Eric: I am Eric Scull.

Laura: I’m Laura Thompson.

[More show intro Music]

Jamie: Hey Ben, can you walk into Subway and just say “Yeah, I’ll have my usual?”

Ben: I used to be able to, but I haven’t been to Subway in months.

Jamie: Really?

Ben: Because I told people to stop sending me cards because I felt so bad.

Laura: I went to Subway in New York City.

Jamie: I love Subway.

Ben: Well, yeah, you traveled 3,000 miles to go to Subway.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Speaking of New York City [laughs], that was the only seg-way I could think of, Micah Tannenbaum is in our imaginary MuggleCast News Center with the past week’s top Harry Potter news stories.


Micah: Earlier this week we reported that Michael Hoffman was slated to direct the sixth Potter film. WB has now confirmed that this is not true, however Production Weekly’s latest issue contains information concerning Half Blood Prince, including that David Yates is set to direct the film. While everyone should consider this a rumor for now, we heard that David has been in talks with WB.

Emma Thompson, who plays Professor Sibyl Trelawney, was interviewed on Jonathan Ross where she mainly discussed her new film Stranger Than Fiction while speaking a little about Harry Potter. A video of this appearance can be seen over at and Emma also did interviews with Newsweek, USA Today, and made an appearance on The Ellen Show.

Jason Isaacs, the Lucius Malfoy actor, appeared on the UK chat show This Morning, where he discussed the Potter films, mentioned that he finished filming his scenes for Order of the Phoenix last week.

In a recent interview Daniel Radcliffe was asked if he would be playing a death in Movie Seven, and he suggested that Harry might die in the final book. He was quoted as saying, “That’s the only way JK Rowling could ever halt any call for her to keep writing the Potter books, because I mean if Harry survives she’ll just be getting plagued by requests to write an eighth book for the rest of her life.”

In celebration of their 60th publication anniversary Time Europe reflected on the heroes that have immerged in the past six decades. Jo Rowling made the list, along with dozens of other inspirational figures.

And according to a poll by hotel company Travelodge, Jo has the fifth biggest fan base in the United Kingdom. The Harry Potter author ranks behind Manchester United, pop star Robbie Williams, and the Liverpool Football Club. I hear Andrew is crying U2 didn’t make the list, but Andrew, don’t worry this is after all poll by a hotel company.

As we reported last month the American Library Association asked teen readers to vote for their favorite book as part of Teen Read Week. The Association has announced the winners and, no doubt due to MuggleNetters voting, Half Blood Prince topped the list.

Leslie Phillips, voice of the Sorting Hat, joins the guest line-up for Collector Mania G-Mex, scheduled to take place in Manchester, England, between the 18th and 19th of November. Jamie Waylett, who plays Vincent Crabbe and James and Oliver Phelps, who play the Weasley twins, are also set to attend.

Finally, there is no more waiting: the first copies of the book written entirely by MuggleNet staff are now being shipped by our partner Alivan’s.’s What Will Happen in Harry Potter 7? can be ordered for just $15.84 (shipping included). That’s all the news for this November 12th, 2006 edition of MuggleCast. Back to the show.

Andrew: All right, thanks Micah. And anyone who’s wondering about that chipmunk voice was real, that he did on the show last week? It is legit because Eric and I had him do it in New York City when they were hanging out with him…

Ben: [laughs] Did you really?

Andrew: …earlier this week. Yeah and he did it.

Ben: That’s awesome.

Andrew: I couldn’t believe him at first because I thought he might have just done a little effect, you know to accent or something, but no, it’s legit.

News Discussion: U.K. Fan Bases

Andrew: Not much news to discuss this week. There were a lot news stories but none of them are really discussion worthy. Here’s something I found interesting. J.K. Rowling ranked #5 in the Top Ten, I think it was, U.K. Fan bases. Now, what…

Ben: Oh, what a load.

Andrew: What immediately struck me about this was that wouldn’t you think that Jo probably has one of the bigger fan bases. Jamie, did you see this list? Because I wanted to ask you about it.

Jamie: No, I didn’t. No.

Ben: Who’s number one? Lord of the Rings?

Andrew: No

Jamie: No

Andrew: No, these are like people…

Ben: Star Trek? Oh, these are people’s fan bases.

Andrew: The Top U.K. Fan bases: #1 was Manchester United.

Laura: What?

Eric: What is Manchester United?

Ben: That’s a team.

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: It’s a football team.

Laura: That’s stupid.

Jamie: It’s a huge, huge, huge football team.

Ben: Football? What are you talking about they’re a soccer team.

Andrew: Foosball

Jamie: Oh, I’m sorry Ben. Yes, it’s a soccer team. It is massive. It is absolutely massive.

Andrew: #2: Robbie Williams. Who’s a pop star?

Jamie: Yeah, he is. I don’t know if I’d call what he has as a massive fan base…

Ben: Isn’t that the guy who plays Hagrid?

Jamie: No…

Laura: No, [laugh]

Jamie: That’s Robbie Coltrane, Ben.

Ben: Oh, [laughs] woops.

Jamie: This guy does have a great deal of fans and all of his concerts are sold out very, very, very early on. But I don’t know. Who came third?

Andrew: How about Liverpool – Liverpool F.C.

Jamie: Soccer Club, again.

Andrew: Football club.

Eric: Where is Sir Elton John’s fan base?

Ben: The Beatles.

Jamie: Soccer Club again. There… Yeah, they all have huge – the football clubs do have huge fan bases.

Andrew: Now, what about, something called Arsenal? What’s that?

Jamie: One more football club. Sorry, soccer club.

Eric: Oh my God!

Andrew: Geez, that’s stupid.

Eric: These crazy sports fans. You can’t even compare them.

Jamie: Footballs massive. It’s massive. Absolutely massive.

Andrew: Well, soccer in the U.S. is not very big at all.

Jamie: No, I know its not.

Ben: No, we hate it here.

Andrew: We don’t hate it. Some people do.

Ben: No, I hate it. It’s too much running. I can’t do it.

[Ben and Eric laughs]

Andrew: And then there’s J.K. Rowling and #6, really disappointed me, U2.

Laura: Awww…

Andrew: Come on.

Eric: Well, No. I don’t even understand why they’re comparing that to kids and…

Andrew: To soccer clubs?

Eric: The people that actually read, you know, and don’t just drink and watch sports channel.

Andrew: Yeah.

Jamie: Well, I think it’s a bit of a stereotype to make, you know? You can’t say that all football fans drink and watch it.

Eric: Oh, yes it is and forgive me for making the stereotype…

Jamie: Never, never.

Eric…if it’s possible, but…

Jamie: Never, never.

[Eric and Ben laughs]

Eric: But I’m saying sports fans are quite a bit different from these kinds of fans and I don’t know, you know? It’s not exactly like they don’t like the same exact things. I think it’s like they should have done a list of something different. I don’t know.

Andrew: This poll was conducted by a hotel over in England.

Jamie: What’s the… Oh, well they’re experts so…

Ben: A little hotel.

Andrew: Yeah, I mean, I know.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: I know. Well, it made the BBC, so it’s somewhat newsworthy.

Order of the Phoenix Teaser Trailer

Andrew: I got another question for everyone. Who is going to see Happy Feet this Friday?

Eric: I am going to see Casino Royale.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: Okay, but my question is who is going to see Happy Feet.

Ben: Well,

[Andrew, Jamie and Ben laughs]

Jamie: Back to the original question.

Ben: What’s that movie going to be about? It sounds dumb.

Andrew: It’s about penguins dancing on ice glaciers.

Laura: Oh, that will be…

Jamie: Classic.

Laura: …That’ll be my number one stop this weekend, I’m telling you that now.

Jamie: Absolute classic.

Andrew: No, okay. You know why I’m asking this…

Laura: Yes.

Andrew: Order of the Phoenix teaser trailer.

Laura: Yes, I know.

Eric: I’ll catch the trailer Andrew.

Andrew: Attached to the front of this. Eric, you work at Happy Feet – you work at the movie theater.

Ben: [laughing] He works at Happy Feet.

Jamie: He works on a glacier.

Andrew: Yeah, what were you going to say, Ben?

Ben: How long do you think it is until we got a version of it online? Someone sends in…

Andrew: I’m going to guess two minutes after Happy Feet is released.

Laura: Yeah.

Ben: Okay, I’m going to go to the movie theater. I’m going to buy a ticket to a movie I actually want to see, then I’m going to go to the previews of Happy Feet and then [laughs].

Andrew: Then switch, yeah.

Ben: Yeah.

Andrew: That’s a good idea

Eric: I could stop you. I could kick you out, Ben.

Ben: Oh, could you?

Eric: If you came to my theater.

Ben: If we go to Philadelphia’s theater.

Eric: No, if you come to Redding, Pennsylvania.

Ben: Redding.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: If you came to my theater.

Andrew: The trailer has been seen by a few people and there have been some descriptions online and from what we can gather they’re pretty accurate. Have you guys read them?

Ben: No

Laura: I’ve read one.

Andrew: Looks pretty good.

Laura: Yeah

Andrew: Starts with Sirius…

Eric: Don’t tell me. Spoiler policy – spoiler.

Jamie: Yeah, you shouldn’t say it, to be honest.

Andrew: All right, all right, I won’t, I won’t – never mind. It starts with Sirius talking and that’s all I’ll say. And, so I guess I’ll be going to… I don’t know it doesn’t seem like – it doesn’t seem worth it since it’s going to be online.

Ben: Is it worth the drive?

Jamie: But we don’t…

Andrew: Yeah, with the gas prices these days.

Jamie: …But we don’t condone seeing it online, if it’s been leaked do we Andrew?

Ben: Yeah.

Andrew: Well, I do. Because…

Jamie: Yeah, right.

Andrew: …if it’s on YouTube, it’s not a problem.

Eric: Allegedly. Allegedly

Jamie: Allegedly, it’s on YouTube.

Andrew: But yeah, it wouldn’t surprise me if it shows up on Apple officially. Maybe the same day…

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: Because t just seems…

Jamie: It’s easier to put it out online

Andrew: …kind of hard for WB.

Jamie: Instead of like risking piracy. If they actually put it online. Then they’re beating the pirates. [laughs] Do…

Andrew: Right, right.

Jamie: Do you call people who pirate stuff pirates?

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: Internet Pirates.

Ben: Well, duh. Yeah.

Jamie: Well, that doesn’t sound right.

Ben: Argh….

Jamie: I can imagine…

Eric: Well neither does pirate [pronounced “pi-rate”].

Jamie: Pi-rate.

Ben: Yeah [laughs].

Jamie: Yeah, true.

Eric: What is the etymology of pirate [pronounced “pi-rate”]. I mean, it’s just…

Ben: [laughs] Pirate [pronounced “pi-rate”].

Jamie: It’s from the Latin “pir,” meaning…

[Eric laughs]

Jamie: …steal, and “rate,” meaning…videos?

[Eric laughs]

Jamie: Actually, I have no idea.

Eric: [still laughing] Rate.

MuggleCast T-Shirts

Andrew: Folks, we haven’t been kidding. MuggleCast t-shirts will no longer be sold after – well, beginning January 1st, 2007.

Ben: They’re going out of style.

Andrew: So – not, oh, no. They’ll always be in style, but the shirts, we’ll have to take them off the website January 1st, so if you are thinking about buying a shirt, we urge you purchase one now because they are going to be selling out fast [clears throat] and we hope to sell out our entire inventory. Of course, they help to support the show and… So thank you very much.

Eric: You know what we need? We need hoodies and then we need to say, you know, “Keep yourself warm, this will be the last winter you’ll have an opportunity to keep yourself warm,” or something.

Andrew: And, of course, you all need to buy one for National MuggleCast Day, coming this…May?

Laura: June.

Eric: You mean MuggleCast T-Shirt Day?

[Ben laughs]

Podcast Alley

Andrew: June. I always forget. [laughs] And then, also, don’t forget to vote for us on Podcast Alley. We really need everyone’s votes over there because we want to beat a little podcast called Keith and The Girl.

Ben: Oh, yeah.

Eric: Who’s the girl?

Andrew: They’re these two – these two big dorks who…

Eric: [laughs] I don’t think…

Andrew: …podcast about nothing.

Eric: …we can call anybody dorks.

Jamie: Yeah. Like us, really, isn’t it? [laughs]

Laura: Yeah, we are.

Andrew: [laughs] No, we’re not dorks.

Eric: We podcast about nothing.

Andrew: We’re cool.’s Book

Ben: Hey, also, now is the time to order’s What Will Happen in Harry Potter Seven: Who Lives, Who Dies, Who Falls in Love, and How the Adventure Finally Ends, by Ben Schoen, Emerson Spartz, Jamie Lawrence, Andy Gordon…

Andrew: That’s me.

Ben: …and Gretchen Stull. So, go pick it up.

Andrew: Andy Gordon is my penname.

Ben: [laughs] Shut up.

[Laura laughs]

Ben: It is not. For the tenth time, it’s not.

Andrew: If you would like me to sign it, just please send your copies to the PO Box.

Ben: Yes, remember, this is going to be in your retail stores very soon. It’s going to be in your local Barnes and Noble and Borders. However, if you want to pre-order it online, you can visit MuggleNet, there’s a link on the right side of the page. Yeah. Go ahead and pre-order it.

Jamie: If you guys had pen names…

Andrew: Well, I would have Andy Gordon because that’s my…

Jamie: No, really, what would you have, Andrew? If you didn’t – okay, if you weren’t Andy Gordon.

Andrew: Bono! I would be Bono. [laughs]

Jamie: Hey, hasn’t someone used that before? I can’t – I can’t remember who.

[Andrew coughs]

Jamie: I’m sure I’ve heard that.

Ben: Paul?

Jamie: Ben, what would you be?

Andrew: Bono. Paul Houston.

Jamie: Yeah. [laughs]

Andrew: Now, let me ask you something. If I go to my bookstore, do I have to say to these people, “I want’s What Will Happen in Harry Potter Seven: Who Lives, Who Dies, Who Falls in Love and How Will the Adventure Finally End?“?

Jamie: Yes, you have to.

Ben: You have to say the full title.

Andrew: Can I just say…

Jamie: If you get one word wrong…

Andrew: Can I just say, “What Will Happen in Harry Potter Seven?”?

Ben: You can say, “What Will Happen in Harry Potter Book Seven?”.

Jamie: Andrew, if you get one word wrong, then they tell you…

Ben: They don’t have it.

Jamie: …they don’t have it.

Ben: Yeah.

Jamie: You have to get it precisely right, with exactly the right pitch, intonation, and tone in your voice. If you get it wrong…

Eric: It sounds like a sell out book.

Andrew: I should hope so.

Jamie: I should hope so, too.

MuggleCast Variety Show

Ben: [in a goofy voice] The MuggleCast Variety Hour. [laughs]

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah. And a little announcement here. The week of New Year’s, it should be like, New Year’s Eve, I think? I don’t know, I would have to consult a calendar, but that last week of the year, we will be having a special MuggleCast variety show that is going to be made up of segments and musical stuff made entirely by the audience. And everyone might remember that we had a segment contest where listeners would create their own MuggleCast segments, and we used about five of them, we ran them for five weeks, but we didn’t – we have like, 20 to 30 more that we never used, so we’re going to use a few of those. And we’ve been getting different submissions lately, like little songs, like little MuggleCast remixes of discussions we’ve had, so I’m going to save all of them for this variety show. So, what I’m asking – what we’re asking here, is for everyone to send in any remixes or segments that you’ve ever had an idea for, for MuggleCast, and we will try to include them on that variety show coming later this year, and it should be a fun show. And the reason we’re going to be doing that is because we won’t be around. Send your entries to mugglecast at staff dot mugglenet dot com. Maybe we’ll give away t-shirts, too, to everyone who airs – who has their segment aired, I don’t know.

Ben: Well, hopefully we won’t have any extras left.

Jamie: Because you’ve all been buying…

Andrew: Yes. Yes.

Jamie: …your MuggleCast t-shirts.

Blog Updates

Andrew: Yes. True that. Oh, and one final reminder on – the all new now…

Ben: Well, only… Okay, it’s been new for about two months, So… [laughs]

[Jamie laughs]

Andrew: It’s still new to me. It’s not two months, it’s been like a month. Yeah.

[Ben laughs]

Andrew: We have weekly roundups now, to cover some of your listener rebuttals that we do not air on the show. And we’ll post them on the website, so we encourage everyone to check the website about midweekly. They’ll be released by one of the co-hosts who were on the past week’s show.

Main Discussion: The Forbidden Forest

Andrew: This week, we are going to have a discussion about the Forbidden Forest. It’s one aspect of Hogwarts that we really haven’t talked about much.

Eric: Maybe at all.

Andrew: Maybe at all. I don’t think we’ve talked about it much at all.

Eric: Wait, not too much, seriously. Maybe two or three episodes we might have mentioned it.

Andrew: No. But there are a few questions about it that we wanted to discuss today.

Eric: I have one before the first one.

Andrew: Oh, okay.

Eric: If that’s okay.

Andrew: Go for it.

Forbidden Forest vs. Dark Forest

Eric: Do you guys know that sometimes Dumbledore refers to the Forbidden Forest as the Dark Forest? Several other characters, like…

Laura: I thought that was just a movie-ism.

Eric: In addition to a movie-ism, I think it appears once or twice in the books, actually. Like, where…

Laura: I don’t think so.

Eric: Yeah. I’m dead serious! It’s not just, you know…

Andrew: Well, do you have evidence to back this up? Or…?

Eric: I don’t, but I’m just saying is it likely that the forest is – the actual name is Forbidden Forest or is it Dark Forest? Or… There seems to be some kind of confusion.

Andrew: I think it is the Forbidden Forest, but – because that is probably the way it was originally described in the books, right?

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah.

Andrew: It’s like the first reference to it was Dark Forest, and then …

Laura: Yep.

Andrew: Although, well, I don’t know.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: You make a good point, because why would they call it the Forbidden Forest? Just because…

Eric: If it’s only forbidden to students…

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: …on one side of it. On one side of one of the edges of it.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: Because…

Andrew: That could be the name just for Hogwarts students.

Jamie: Yeah. I think so.

Why is it Forbidden?

Laura: Well, that’s not necessarily true. It’s forbidden because it’s dangerous.

Andrew: Yes.

Laura: And there are things in it that are forbidden, like illegal creatures, like Aragog and his children.

Eric: Well, centaurs wouldn’t be too appreciative to know that they are in…

Jamie: Illegal, yeah.

Eric: …in a forest that is… Well, actually, I think they would.

Laura: Well, that’s not true, though, because…

Eric: I think they would, because…

Laura: They would consider their domain forbidden to…

Eric: Yeah, that’s true.

Laura: …outside people.

Back to Forbidden Forest vs. Dark Forest

Eric: Well, in Movie One Dumbledore – Richard Harris – says, “Please note that the Dark Forest is forbidden.” You’re right, that could be a movie-ism. But I was sure then around Book Five or Book Six, maybe even Book Four when they were doing the tasks kind of near there, I was under the impression that they used Dark Forest once or twice more, so I thought I would ask.

Laura: Well, I could be wrong, but I really don’t think so.

Ben: I don’t think so either.

[Laura and Eric laugh]

Ben: I think they either refer to it as the Forest or the Forbidden Forest. The chapter in the book is called, “The Forbidden Forest.”

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: And they use the word… And they use the word “dark” a lot in the movies, too. If you’ll notice the tower where Sirius was, was the Dark Tower in the Prisoner of Azkaban movie.

Eric: Dark Tower?

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: What are they trying to do? Just set a dark tone to it, make it sound even more eerie?

Laura: Yeah.

Adventures in the Forbidden Forest

Andrew: I mean, it seems like one of those places that is lacking a major adventure. They’ve always gone in there to, you know, in Book Five, check up on…

Eric: I disagree.

Andrew: You don’t think so?

Eric: The first year Harry goes in there with, you know, and almost gets killed by this Voldemort slither thingy, and then centaurs have to save him, but they get mad at each other. Second year, a giant spider sends all of his thousand younglings all over it – all over after Harry and Ron. And the Ford Anglia has been living there for four or five years.

Laura: Ummm, no, Eric. [laughs]

Eric: Third year at the edge of it the Whomping Willow nearly kills everybody, and everybody sub-passes it. Fourth year, there’s dragons being trained. What do you mean lacking in big adventure? The fourth year there were dragons being hidden there. The fifth year… [laughs]

Jamie: How would you hide a dragon? Just go into that quickly.

[Eric continues to laugh]

Jamie: It must be hard to hide a dragon.

[Ben laughs]

Jamie: The forest must be extremely dense and sort of dark. And, you know? Well…

Andrew: Yeah, exactly. So, it’s very easy to hide a dragon.

Jamie: Yeah. Well, no, I don’t think it’s easy. I don’t think it’s ever easy to hide a dragon. But I think it’s helpful, the fact that…

Ben: Unless it’s baby dragon.

Jamie: It could be. That could be it.

Andrew: Well…

Jamie: Or it could be mute so it can’t speak or breath fire. So, it’s easy.

Andrew: Hagrid held Grawp in there pretty easily.

Ben: Well, last time I checked, Grawp wasn’t a dragon.

[Jamie laughs]

Andrew: Well, no, I know that, but he was making a big scene in the forest and no one really ever noticed.

Eric: It was far enough off. See, that’s why I don’t want to see a big adventure in the forest. It’s always like – Jo writes in this long paragraph, long section of paragraphs, where they’re walking into the woods, and the scenery is changing. Then there’s always a clearing. So, so far in it gets silent. I’m not saying it’s boring to read about it, because it’s not, but we’ve had several adventures in the Forbidden Forest. I don’t think it needs any bit more exposure than it’s already had.

Jamie: But it needs to be explained.

Eric: It’s supposed to remain mysterious.

Jamie: Perhaps, or it needs to be explained. Because we don’t know anything actually about it. Apart from… It’s been used as a plot point, but it’s been used as a secondary plot point. There’s never been a story-line involving the Forbidden Forest.

Andrew: Right.

Dumbledore’s Relationship with the Centaurs

Jamie: Things have taken place there, and things have happened in there, and revolving around it, but they need to talk about who created it, who can go in there safely. I wonder if Dumbledore can go in there safely. Obviously, he can protect himself, but do – will the centaurs welcome him with open arms?

Andrew: Well, he’s dead now…

[Ben laughs]

Andrew: …so I don’t think it’s a good question. [laughs]

Jamie: Yeah, he probably couldn’t go walking in, could he?

Eric: [laughs] The centaurs attended his funeral, so I would say they respect him enough, at least as a headmaster…

Jamie: Perhaps, yeah.

Eric: … to maybe… Well, he had to go in there and rescue Umbridge from the centaurs. So, not only did he [laughs] have to be on good terms with the centaurs, maybe speaking, but he had to convince them to let Umbridge go.

Andrew: I think they were upset with him because he took Firenze from them.

Eric: Well, yeah, they could…

Laura: Well, he didn’t… No, I don’t think they were – I don’t think he took Firenze. Firenze kind of…

Eric: Yeah, I think they’re more upset with Firenze.

Andrew: Well, I mean…

Laura: Firenze.

Andrew: But Dumbledore asked him to go. So…

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: …Dumbledore doesn’t really – I guess. Hmmm, well, I don’t know.

Eric: No, it makes sense…

Andrew: You could say that Dumbledore…

Eric: …because he did take him in.

Andrew: That shows that Dumbledore doesn’t really have any respect for the rest of the them if he’s asking Firenze to go. Unless he just didn’t know the fellow centaurs would be upset by that.

Eric: Hmmm.

Jamie: I agree. I think that’s a good point, actually.

Who Can Go Into the Forbidden Forest?

Andrew: What about Hagrid? Do you think he’s the only one who really goes in there?

Ben: Probably.

Andrew: We know Fred and George have…

Jamie: No, yeah, he did…

Andrew: …taken multiple trips in there, which we’ll talk about in a minute.

Jamie: I think he does, but it’s like he seems to be at home in that type of environment, you know? I think he can handle himself very well, even…

Ben: It seems to be a place of outcasts, too, sort of. You know?

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: Like Aragog, you tell him that he can’t be…

Jamie: Yeah.

Ben: You can’t live… If that makes any sense.

Eric: That’s a good point. You can’t live in a cupboard, so…

Jamie: But…

Andrew: Who else might go in there to possibly use the Forbidden Forest, maybe? Hide something of their own? Could there really be anyone else who has the courage or the…

How Big is the Forbidden Forest?

Jamie: How big is it? Is it a huge forest or is it just a small one?

Laura: That’s always the impression I’ve gotten, that it was…

Jamie: What, huge?

Andrew: Huge, yeah.

Laura: It was very vast.

Jamie: Well, there must be other things in there. It’s like we kind of expect to be the only people alive in this universe.

Andrew: Speaking of that…

Jamie: We shouldn’t expect that spiders and centaurs are the only people who live in the forest. What? And unicorns.

Tangent: Andrew’s Nightmare

Andrew: I had a nightmare last night.

Jamie: Yeah?

Andrew: So, I went to Vegas to help my dad with something, and the sixth war had begun, and these people from outside of our world started bombing Vegas…

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: No, that really happened.

Andrew: …with these giant laser things. I’m not – I’m really not making this up.

Jamie: That really happened. It really happened.

Eric: Somebody read this kid a book.

Andrew: It was very scary and I woke up almost crying.

Jamie: Awww.

[Eric laughs]

Jamie: And then you realized you were safe in your bed.

Andrew: But anyway, so that was my dream, so I think that does mean that there are other creatures in outside space.

Who is Using the Forbidden Forest?

Andrew: But back to the Forbidden Forest. Yes, like Jamie said, it is very vast. Can anyone else be possibly using it? [laughs]

Jamie: Yeah, basically.

Ben: Of course.

Andrew: Anyone at Hogwarts?

Ben: They could, but I don’t know if we have anything in the books that would lead us to believe that.

Eric: As far as Hogwarts goes, like, certain teachers may go in there to get some materials.

Andrew: Well, what about Snape?

Eric: Oh, maybe.

Andrew: Eric, what do you think about Snape?

Eric: When he has to go refill his potion ingredients, maybe some of that would only be collectible in the Forest.

Andrew: Ah yes, yes.

Eric: And Snape’s been – Snape’s gone in there before to visit Quirrell, actually, or to scare Quirrell off or whatever. Snape seemed to know a place in the Forest where…

Jamie: But, Eric, there’s a difference between going in and going in, if that makes sense. You can go onto the outskirts and talk, but…

Eric: Yes, I understand that, but at least Snape was comfortable enough with what was inside. Or he didn’t fear what was inside the Forest enough to go on the outskirts and not fear either being overheard or…He just wanted to take Quirrell into a secluded place.

Jamie: I guess so.

Eric: And it was in the Forest. So, I could see Snape going into the Forest to get potion ingredients and things. And for that, I would imagine you would need to go in pretty far. If you needed, like, Wormwood or something.

Jamie: Unicorn stuff.

Eric: Yeah, unicorn something.

Fred and George in the Forbidden Forest

Andrew: So, what about Fred and George? Because, as I said earlier, I think…

Eric: Where don’t – honestly, I’m sorry to cut you off – where don’t Fred and George go?

Andrew: Well, that’s a good point, but why do you think they’re going in there, Eric?

Eric: Why do you think? Why do you think?

Ben: They’re just mischievous.

Eric: Didn’t you say they go in there?

Jamie: Ingredients for their Skiving Snackboxes.

Andrew: Yeah. Well, that’s the only thing I can think of. They’re going in there to collect stuff for their business.

Eric: They must know where to collect it.

Ben: Well, I doubt they’d go in there anymore.

Andrew: Well, they left the school…

Jamie: But it seems like the kind of place they’d be intrigued by. I doubt they haven’t been in there. I mean, I doubt they…

Eric: Oh, yeah.

Jamie: And didn’t Hagrid say in Book One that he spent half his life chasing the Weasley brothers out of there?

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: That’s very clever, yeah.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: That’s true, and it’s something with the name. [laughs] It’s named, “Forbidden.” [laughs]

Jamie: Which means they want to do it, yeah.

Eric: [laughs] How can they not go in it?

Is There a Horcrux in the Forbidden Forest?

Andrew: What about the possibility of there being a Horcrux in there? Do you guys… Does anyone think there’s any truth to that?

Jamie: No.

Andrew: Since Voldemort has made trips into there – in there for Unicorn’s blood?

Jamie: It’s too much of an open place. Everyone can go in there.

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: I mean, even though he can protect it, there could – I mean, there could just be things walking past, whereas the Cave you aren’t going to go in there and find a queue of people waiting to get in. It’s like, it is a secluded place.

Eric: Right, you can’t even get down those rocks, according to Dumbledore, without magic…

Andrew: Well, but…

Eric: …anymore. Anymore, you can’t really get down.

Andrew: …since the Forest is such a big place, don’t you think it would be
easy to hide a Horcrux? Nobody would ever find that.

Laura: Well yeah, but it’s still open to all the elements, not to mention the
numerous creatures walking around in there.

Tangent: Could Voldemort Have Attached Himself to a Horcrux?

Eric: I wonder why Voldemort, when he was in his little spectral form, didn’t try and go attach himself to one of his Horcruxes, or the soul inside his Horcrux, or something along those lines.

Jamie: I don’t think you can, can you?

Laura: Yeah.

Ben: No, he was. That little spectral form was the Horcrux.

Eric: Was a part of his – was a Horcrux, right.

Jamie: Eric, Eric, it’s just your soul, though. Even if he got all of his Horcruxes when he was in a spectral form together and put them together with his current soul, he would still only be a soul.

Laura: Yeah, he didn’t have a body.

Jamie: He can’t store his body in a cupboard.

Eric: He would still only be a soul, but slightly more of one. He would be
slightly more powerful, he would slightly be more…

Jamie: No, that’s not true. As Dumbledore says, his magical ability and power is still intact even without a soul. I’d say that a soul has more metaphysical, moral, ethical properties. It teaches you right and wrong, stuff like that. It’s a violation of nature to get rid of it, but you can still be magically powerful without it, which is why when Harry comes to fight Voldemort, he will still need absolute mastery of magic to defeat him.

Eric: Right. Right, right, right.

Jamie: In fact, even more, really, because Voldemort is completely malicious in his goals. He doesn’t care about any type of morals at all, whereas Harry, since he has a soul, does. So, you know?

The Forbidden Forest in Book Seven

Andrew: What about come Book Seven? Who could be left in the Forest to help
Harry? Do you think the centaurs could?

Eric: I don’t think it’s likely.

Laura: Well, why not, though, Eric? Because they’ve really stressed that
magical unity is one of the only ways they’re going to be able to defeat

Eric: Yeah, but who listens to that crap?

Ben: Right, I just don’t foresee them – I don’t understand why we have to have
everything involved, like, what’s Dobby’s role going to be?

Laura: Well, not everything involved. No, not every magical creature, every
magical person is going to unite in the war against Voldemort, but I think
some will.

Eric: Right, but is it… But what it comes down to, with centaurs joining humans, is
whether or not… According to the centaurs humans are very ignorant, they
think they’re animals, the sky’s the limit with the complaints that they
have. It’s just a matter… The centaurs have read the stars, and they’re
very content. We’ve seen them. They’re very content in knowing that there’s
going to be not just another war, but that humans are going to die. I don’t
even think they concern themselves with this war unless something really big happens. Or, or you can believe that they will say, “Okay, we are the insightful people, the humans need us, let’s go help.”

Tangent: The Ford Anglia’s Appearance

Eric: But I don’t personally see that as likely, and I think that the only thing that’s going to help Harry in the Forbidden Forest is probably Mr. Weasley’s car, because JKR said it would.

Laura: Well, she didn’t say it would help.

Ben: Speaking of which…

Laura: She said it would make an appearance.

Eric: And if it’s not to help, then it’s certainly not to break down in front of their eyes. [laughs]

Laura: Well, that doesn’t mean that it couldn’t be comic relief or something.

Andrew: Yeah, it probably will end up being something like that. “Harry was
walking along the Hogwarts grounds…”

Jamie: “And the Ford Anglia waved, ‘Hello,’ and then went back into the

Andrew: Yeah, it beeped, “Hello!”

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: “It disappeared and…” [laughs]

Andrew: And said, “Go buy the movie Cars out now on DVD.”

Jamie: Yeah. [laughs]

Eric: Oh, god. [laughs]

Will the Centaurs Help?

Laura: Well, I think with any other group of creatures or people,
you’re going to have the few that want to help, and the few that don’t. And that’s what I think it is.

Andrew: Well, what can they really provide?

Laura: Well, if they can see into the future…

Eric: Well, they can’t, though.

Ben: They don’t want to tell anybody, though.

Laura: Firenze is the only one that we’ve seen.

Ben: And look what happened to him.

Eric: Even then Firenze admits defeat. He says centaurs have read the
stars wrong before.

Laura: Well, yeah, but it doesn’t mean that they couldn’t at least be
somewhat beneficial.

Eric: That’s true.

Andrew: Maybe help a little bit. Wasn’t it them that predicted that the second war was going to begin?

Laura: It was them that predicted that Harry was supposed to die in the
Forest. [laughs]

Ben: That “Mars is bright tonight.”

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah, Harry was supposed to die that night in the Forest, and they were all like, “Hello, Harry Potter.” [laughs] “That way to Voldemort.” [laughs] “Just keep going.”

Why is the Forest Forbidden?

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. Why do you think – now, this might just be a stupid question, but why do you think the Forest became forbidden in the first place? Do you think it was because of Aragog that it became forbidden?

Laura: No.

Eric: No, not just because – I’m sure it’s no one reason. It’s a forest and there’s all sorts of creatures. Well, most of all, I think the most reason is that kids would be unsupervised. It’s so close to the school grounds and there’s nobody really to keep watch over them there. They can’t even get a Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher. Well, I’m not saying it’s that difficult to people to watch kids, but it’s a long, dark forest, there’s animals that clearly do not want human beings, not only in their homes, but even to exist or to interfere with things. Kids are ignorant. They’d be stomping around, shooting spells.

Laura: Why do you think they built the school so close to the forest?

Jamie: But do you think it pre-dated Hogwarts?

Laura: Oh yeah. I think the forest…

Jamie: Perhaps it didn’t pre-date it.

Laura: I think the forest must have. I mean…

Jamie: It’s a nice forest though.

Laura: …it’s a forest. I mean, it’s old.

Jamie: But, but perhaps it was a really…

Ben: No, they planted the forest.

Jamie: Yeah. Every single tree. It took them a 1,000 years.

Eric: Johnny Appleseed was a Ravenclaw with a very bright idea.

Jamie: But perhaps this is a case of…

[Ben laughs]

Eric: Or Hufflepuff.

Jamie: Do you think it’s a case of, sort of keeping your friends close, but your enemies closer whereas, you know, they have the spiders there. It can’t only be Hagrid who knows that the spiders are in there, you know? They need him.

Laura: Well, the spiders are only there because of Hagrid, though. Aren’t they?

Eric: Yeah. That’s true.

Jamie: Oh, I know, but there’s other – there are werewolves in there obviously, you know?

Laura: Mhm.

Eric: Apparently.

Jamie: No, there are. Well, yeah. I mean according to Hagrid, there are. And there are unicorns and everything, thestrals as well. Hagrid also needs a place to keep all his Care of Magical Creatures Creatures.

Andrew: But Eric, do you think that this forest, there was any one point where maybe the forest was safe and then maybe Aragog started living in there and then…?

Eric: No.

Andrew: And then other creatures…

Eric: No, I think…

Andrew: …began living in there because it was forbidden. So, it was sort of like a…

Laura: Because Aragog invited them?

Andrew: No, because it was just abandoned…

Ben: Yeah. [Ben laughs]

Eric: Dangerous creatures lend me your, whatever you have.

Laura: No. I think it was always dangerous. I mean…

Eric: It’s always dangerous. Its just a – I don’t want to say occupational hazard – but if you’re a student going to Hogwarts and there’s a giant forest, there’s a risk of danger. I think it was, eventually, probably enough students died in there or enough students got injured or were coming back, you know, with scary stories that the Headmaster at that time of Hogwarts said…

Ben: With no legs.

Eric: Yeah, exactly. [laughs] You know? And eventually, at one point, the Headmaster would have to say, “Okay, we’re going to forbid this.” I hope it wasn’t Dumbledore. I hope it was Headmasters eons before Dumbledore, because Dumbledore can’t be the only one with sense.

Laura: Do you think there was any specific reason they built the school so close to a forest that’s obviously dangerous? Or…?

Ben: I don’t think it was… I don’t know. I mean maybe the forest holds some educational value for the students.

Eric: I think so.

Jamie: Oh, yeah.

Eric: Ben, that was very clever.

Andrew: It sort of does, but they don’t really take much advantage of it if there is educational value.

Laura: Yeah.

Ben: Well, you don’t know that. Just because JK Rowling doesn’t include it doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen.

Jamie: It’s pretty important.

Eric: That’s true.

Andrew: [laughs] Well.

Eric: I mean, things with Care of Magical Creatures wouldn’t really be possible if you just ship all of your creatures, you know, however far a distance just to study them. I mean, that’s one thing that it does benefit, and I guess plant life would definitely be the other one if you were to ask if Snape or if Sprout were to go into the forest to get things. It definitely does add a lot of the other things that you would need to teach a school, just not the direct things not like students going in there. That’s like saying, why is there a giant squid in the lake? You know? Why would you put it on a lake next to a giant squid?

[Andrew, Eric, and Laura laugh]

Eric: It’s there for educational value and that squid, I guess, is friendly. So…

Hagrid’s Hiding Place

Andrew: Well, yeah. We do know that. So, Hagrid has ended up hiding a lot of things in there: Aragog, Grawp, the thestrals. Well, did Hagrid hide those things?

Laura: No, the thestrals weren’t hidden.

Eric: Yeah. I think it’s because…

Jamie: They’re a natural…

Eric: Not the thestrals.

Jamie: I was going to say natural plantation.

Andrew: Okay, right.

Eric: It’s their natural habitat.

Jamie: Yes, it’s natural, it’s natural.

Eric: Hogwarts just borrows a few to pull the carriages.

Andrew: Do you think Hagrid could use the forest for anything else, like the motorcycle?

Eric: I don’t think Hagrid didn’t – Hagrid doesn’t have Sirius’ motorcycle. Sirius has Sirius’ motorcycle.

Laura: How do we know?

Eric: Because he went to return it to Sirius Black.

Ben: What did he do, did he drop it through the Veil to him?

[Andrew, Ben, and Eric laugh]

Eric: He drove through the Veil and jumped off just before going through it.

Jamie: Yeah, Evil Knievel.

[Eric laughs]

Eric: Exactly my thoughts, Jamie. Exactly my thoughts.

Laura: I don’t really think we’d have more than one motorized vehicle in the forest.

Jamie: Why, is there a rule against that?

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Ben: So, why would the motorcycle be out there? That’s what I want to know.

Laura: Well, it just… I don’t know, just because.

Jamie: But Laura, the Ford Anglia must get lonely so it needs a, sort of, motorized companion.

Andrew: …it needs a Love Bug.

Jamie: Exactly.

[Laura laughs]

Aragog’s Kids

Andrew: To wrap things up, Aragog’s kids. What do you think they’re doing these days? I mean, I guess it really doesn’t matter. They probably are just making a mess of the forest.

Jamie: Yeah, they are.

Andrew: They have no guidance, no nothing unless they’ve died.

Laura: I don’t think so.

Eric: Hagrid had to…

Ben: He had a lot of kids.

Eric: Hagrid had to put… I suppose they’re eating each other, aren’t they? Because he had to pull Aragog out so that they wouldn’t eat him.

Laura: Oh, yeah, that’s right.

Jamie: Oh, yeah.

Andrew: Why don’t they just rebel, go up to the school and cause trouble?

Ben: Knock on the doors.

Eric: [laughs] They could probably take it by storm.

Andrew: Knock on the doors, drink some soup. And…

Eric: Up until now, Dumbledore probably would’ve kept them out.

Jamie: If spiders ate soup, what soup would they eat?

Andrew: Oh, I’d say chicken.

Jamie: No way! It would be like – it would be like…

Andrew: Yeah, way.

Jamie: …Scottish vegetable and leek or something like that. It would be…

Andrew: No, no. I completely disagree.

Laura: I was going to say alphabet soup.

Andrew: Alphabet soup…

Jamie: What about legs? [laughs]

Ben: Dude, I could so go for some Spaghettios and meatballs right now. [laughs]

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Spaghettio? Spaghettios?

If anyone out there has a disagreement about the discussion we just had on the Forbidden Forest, you can always e-mail mugglecast at staff dot mugglenet dot com or use the handy feedback form to submit a listener rebuttal that will either be posted on the site, be read on the show, or we’ll just read it and…

Ben: Or delete it. [laughs]

Last Week’s Show

Andrew: …we’ll just read it. [laughs] Yeah. Speaking of rebuttals, we got one concerning last week’s episode. Oh! You know? [laughs] Okay, that’s why I wanted to bring up “allegedly.” Did you guys realize there was not one complaint about the show last week?

Ben: Because…

Jamie: Really?

Andrew: Usually we get complaints about the show, and I think it’s because…

Ben: …of “allegedly.”

Jamie: Wait, Andrew, you weren’t on it, were you?

Andrew: …you guys said “allegedly.” Yeah.

Jamie: Andrew, you weren’t on it, I don’t think.

Ben: Yeah. [laughs]

Andrew: Okay, well… [laughs]

Laura: Yeah, me and Andrew weren’t there. [laughs]

Eric: [laughs] A lot of the problem causers.

Jamie: Oh, yeah, we need to fix all of the problems in this, then.

Andrew: I think it might [laughs] have to do with the fact that you guys said “allegedly” so much. I don’t know.

[Jamie laughs]

Andrew: Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe the show was just perfect last week, actually.

Ben: Well, I say the host last week was pretty darn good.

Eric: Yeah, I…

Andrew: You know?

Eric: Sorry.

Andrew: I felt so important when I was – when I heard Micah read my statement that I asked him to read.

Jamie: [laughs] Really? Yeah.

Andrew: I felt really important.

Ben: Like you’re the president or something.

Andrew: Some of that… Yeah, I’m going to have him read more statements for me when I don’t want to comment on some controversial topic.

Jamie: [laughs] Yeah. Your spokesman. [laughs] Your spokesperson.

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, exactly.

Jamie: A spoke…

[Eric laughs]

Jamie: A spokesman for Andrew Sims refused to comment.

Listener Rebuttal – Luna

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs] We have a rebuttal now, concerning last week’s show, as I brought up already. This is from Britney. She writes:

“When you were talking about Luna dropping off the radar after Book Five, I immediately thought of the fact that Fleur had also dropped off the radar after Book Four, and then came back fairly strong in Book Six. I just highly doubt that JK would not tell the outcome of such a mysterious character.”

Laura: Yeah. I agree.

Eric: Well, yeah.

Ben: Well, I think -I don’t forcefully know the outcome, but I don’t know how much of a role she’ll actually play in the book. We may hear, “Luna died” or something like that, but I don’t think it will be like a… Well, I just don’t think she’ll play that much of a role. We’ll see, we’ll see.

Eric: Guys, do you remember what Viktor Krum is doing? Because I think they mention – didn’t they mention him, as well, in Book Six? Like, just Hermione said she’s…

Jamie: She’s writing him. Yeah.

Eric: …she’s writing to him or something? Yeah. So that – that’s cool. I was just wondering. But yeah, she didn’t even have to really bring Fleur back, but I guess it’s just a case of – she shelves some characters…

Ben: Offers some closure.

Eric: …and then pulls them – pulls them back out. So…

Ben: Yeah.

Andrew: What do you think – what do you think is going to happen if some aspects of the book don’t get any closure? Like, a certain character. Is it just going to be fan fiction up the wazoo about…

Eric: Easy, we’ll…

Ben: Yeah.

Jamie: But there will be fan fiction anyway.

Laura: And people are going to complain like they did after Book Six.

Jamie: But there will be fan fiction…

Ben: Martin Miggs the Mad Muggle. Ha ha ha.

Eric: [Fake-laughs] Yeah, what if he doesn’t get closure? How does that series end?

Andrew: Speaking of – speaking of news, Dan brought up a good point this week. Dan Radcliffe. He said that the only way Jo’s going to get people to stop bugging her to write an eighth book is that if she kills off Harry. [laughs] So…

Jamie: No, but…

Laura: Oh, people will be bugging her to write some sort of eighth book anyway.

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric: [laughs]Yeah, they’ll be writing her to write anything anyway.

Andrew: She’s not going to write it.

Laura: No, she’s not.

Ben: Like Jamie, people will stop bugging her to write an eighth book if she writes one.

Jamie: Yeah. [laughs] Exactly. That’ll solve it.

Eric: I think if she doesn’t, if she doesn’t specifically add closure to something, I think it’ll be a case where the whole world is over, [laughs] so she doesn’t need to or something like that. Like where the gist of most of what we’d be concerned about would be covered and – didn’t she say she might – she’s seriously considering just writing like appendices…

Jamie: She did.

Eric: …like extra, extra stuff.

Jamie: She did.

Eric: And I would be satisfied with that.

Jamie: But the thing is, there are different types of closure. There’s closure for each character or there’s “and they lived happily ever after,” which solves everyone’s fate, really, instead of…

Eric: That’s true, too. Well, they shouldn’t end happily ever after because Disney does not own the rights to it. [laughs]

Jamie: Yeah, that’s very true. [laughs] Yeah.

Dueling Club – Snape vs. Hermione

Andrew: We are going to bring back a segment that we have not done in a long while. A long while. [starts to sing] It’s been a long time coming.

Ben: Which I invented.

Andrew: You did invent this?

Ben: Mhm.

Andrew: The dueling club.

Eric: Oh, wow.

Andrew: Ben, then I think it’s only right that you…

Jamie: Read it out then, Ben. [laughs]

Andrew: Read it out.

Ben: I’ll read it. Let me hit an F10 here. Snape versus Hermione. Ryan, 20, from Pennsylvania writes:

“I don’t know if you guys are doing this anymore but I had an interesting one. It’s not much of a duel, technically, but here you go. Snape’s intelligence versus Hermione’s intelligence. A battle of the smarts.”

Jamie: See, I think Snape is a very, very, very, very clever guy. I know, he really is, though. His magical ability, first of all, but also, he knows… Being a potions master, I don’t think it’s easy to brew potions. And also, he knows Occlumency, Legilimency, he knows all these things. If you’re talking now, then easily, Snape would win. Easily. Well, in terms of if they actually dueled…

Andrew: Intelligence.

Laura: Yeah…

Jamie: No, if they actually dueled. Snape would…

Ben: Oh, I don’t know. I think it’d be a case where Hermione would be making fun of Snape. You got outsmarted by a little girl. That type of thing.

Jamie: Ben, do you honestly think that if they had a magical duel, Hermione would win? She wouldn’t have a chance against Snape.

Ben: No, we’re talking about intellectually.

Andrew: Maybe – we’re talking about, yeah.

Jamie: Have them play chess or something.

Eric: Yeah, right, exactly. We don’t know the way it’s applied.

Jamie: How are we suppose to compare them?

Andrew: Maybe it’s a….

Jamie: Have them both take an SAT?

Andrew: Battle of wits.

Eric: Jamie…

Ben: Who gets the higher SAT scores. [laughs]

Eric: No, if it’s wits, I still think Snape would win.

Laura: Yeah, I agree.

Eric: Jamie illustrates a brilliant point. Intelligence. Hermione’s intelligence goes a lot with book smarts, reciting something. If you would ask her what Chapter 17 or what a certain author’s opinion on something was, she would tell you. But, intelligence otherwise, as in cleverness, wit, mind-reading, Occlumency, all that other stuff that actually applies – even a game of chess – is not book smarts, and therefore I think Snape would have the upper hand.

Ben: It’s just because he’s older. He’s older. That’s the only reason.

Andrew: Well, yeah, true. In Half-Blood Prince, the book – the stuff in there. I mean…

Jamie: [laughs] Look at it like that.

Andrew: No, I mean his…

Jamie: The poem.

Andrew: His book in Half-Blood Prince.

Ben: Oh okay. The Potions Book.

Andrew: Yes, the Potions Book. That was – that shows how comfortable he is with potions.

Eric: Anybody know the exact title?

Ben: Advanced Potions Making.

Eric: Oh, very good.

Laura: Yeah, I agree. It really – it showed that Snape was a lot more innovative.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: Because Hermione tended to follow directions and Snape would find his own

Andrew: Right. Right. Did Hermione screw up a potion in Book Five?

Jamie: Yeah, yeah she did. No, she screwed it up…

Eric: I think everyone was screwing up potions except for Harry.

Ben: It was in Book Six.

Jamie: Yeah, it was in Book Six.

Andrew: Oh. Okay. Well, yeah. So, and in a duel too, you guys think … I guess he would.

Ben: I think just the age thing.

Laura: Yeah.

Ben: By the time Hermione is at that age, like her 30s or however old Snape is…

Eric: Guys, do you have any idea how much Snape has survived? Snape has battled Voldemort. I mean, every single time he’s been in Voldemort’s presence, that’s kind of like battling Voldemort. So…

Jamie: Yeah. It’s like, I do not think…

Laura: It’s pretty easy. If you think about it, Jo said that Harry would defeat Hermione in a duel. So, I think if Harry could defeat Hermione, Snape certainly could. .

Eric: Well, duel or in Occlumency too.

Jamie: Harry could not beat Snape in a million years, as demonstrated in the end of Half-Blood Prince, when he was blocking his spells easily.

Eric: Oh, yeah. He couldn’t even say the spells. That was awesome, though. I really, really applaud that.

Jamie: That was an awesome scene. Awesome.

Eric: It showed how Harry was.

Jamie: “You’ll fail again and again until you learn to keep your mind shut and your mouth shut.” Or something like that.

Eric: Even then, he’s teaching him.

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric: Even then, he’s teaching him. God.

Ben: [Imitating Eric] Oh, god. Oh, god. Oh, god.

Andrew: Thank you for that Dueling Club.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: And if anyone else has any other Dueling Club match-ups that you would like to submit to us, just sent them to mugglecast at staff dot mugglenet dot com. It can be creative ones like this one, Snape versus Hermione in a battle of wits, or it could just be a tradition.

Eric: It was good.

Andrew: Traditional duel. Yeah. Now, before I read this, I just want to make a quick disclaimer. My fellow co-hosts are going to complain to me that I included this rebuttal just because…

Jamie: Oh, yeah.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: It involves me. I do want to say that I chose this rebuttal…

Jamie: They come from New Jersey as well.

Laura: Mhm.

Andrew: No, no, it didn’t.

Jamie: It so did.

Eric: You read them every time it includes you.

Listener Rebuttals – Elections

Andrew: I chose this rebuttal before I realized it included me. I’m sorry, okay? If it said Eric Scull, I would have included it too. Anyway. Stephanie, 19 of Washington writes:

“Hey MuggleCasters. I just voted yesterday in the midterm elections and found myself quite unsure of who to give my vote to in more than a few races. There were positions that I had absolutely no clue about. So, I did the logical thing. I filled in the ‘Write-In Candidate’ box with Harry Potter characters. Included among them were Harry, James and Lily Potter, Ron Weasley and Dumbledore. In the last box I had available a thought occurred to me: ‘Hey, Stephanie, how could you make this a situation through which your name might be read on MuggleCast?'”

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Andrew: Well, she got that part right.

“That’s right: I voted for Andrew Sims for County Treasurer. I hope you win, buddy. Those other guys don’t stand a chance.”

Ben: Hold on a second, hold on a second. Why is this a listener rebuttal?

Andrew: It’s not.

Ben: It’s not, it’s just an excuse for you to read it.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: No, it’s not a rebuttal, it’s a… Well, there weren’t many rebuttals this week. So… I just thought, there is the question, why don’t we campaign to get people to vote for…

Laura: Us?

Andrew: Us. Or Harry Potter characters.

Laura: I’d have to think about it.

Andrew’s Listener Challenge

Andrew: It would have been fun. As I promised in the beginning of the show, I have a listener challenge for everyone. I don’t know, maybe you guys have heard about this already, I don’t know if you’ve checked your calendars, or something like that. This month, November, is actually National MuggleCast at McDonald’s Month. Did you guys hear about this?

Jamie: What is it?

Laura: No.

Jamie: National…

Andrew: National MuggleCast at McDonald’s Month.

Jamie: I can’t say, I haven’t yet.

Andrew: You didn’t know? It’s been posted at McDonald’s across the world.

Laura: Okay, what happened to the fight against childhood obesity?

Andrew: Uh… I don’t know what you’re talking about.

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: No, we do that too, Laura, because you listen to the show on your iPod when you’re going for a jog, so you’re getting exercise. There you go. So, you’re helping that cause too.

Laura: Yeah, now you can listen to it while you’re picking up your McDonald’s after your jog.

Jamie: What, you’re Big Mac? Yeah.

Ben: While you’re stuffing your face.

Jamie: Exactly.

Andrew: And in honor of National MuggleCast at McDonald’s Month, we have a little contest for everyone here. Don’t ask me what the prize is yet, maybe a gift certificate to McDonald’s or something.

Eric: Maybe a t-shirt.

Andrew: But, here’s what you do. There’s two ways to go about this. The first step, visit your local McDonald’s. Now, here’s where it gets tricky. You can either go in the store, and purchase a delicious McDonald’s meal, then after you purchase your meal [laughs] visit to the refreshments area and post a sign on the vending machine with a small promotional ad for MuggleCast. Take a picture of the sign on the soda fountain machine and enjoy your meal. Now for bonus points, have an McDonald’s employees standing next to the sign in the picture, and for extra bonus points – this is going to be tricky, I don’t think many people are going to be able to pull this off – have Ronald McDonald standing next to the picture – standing next to the sign.

Jamie: And for extra, extra bonus points…

[Eric laughs]

Jamie: …extra, extra bonus points, have Elvis standing next to you when you take the photo.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Andrew: And for extra, extra, extra bonus points, have Jamie standing in your picture.

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah.

Jamie: But, I’m alive.

Eric: Or just put a MuggleCast – Elvis stand-up in front of it.

[Eric and Andrew laugh]

Andrew: Yeah, that’s true. There’s a second way you can go about doing this. You can go through the McDonald’s drive-thru and order a delicious McDonald’s meal, but post a sign on the ordering kiosk – the thing that you talk into that displays your order and stuff. Post a sign on that…

Eric: [laughs] “Can I get a MuggleCast?”

Andrew: …with a small promotional ad for MuggleCast. Take a picture, and pull up to the first window to pick up your meal. Now for bonus points, you can do this one…

Eric: With Elvis.

Andrew: …but make the ad look like it’s a meal order. So for example maybe you could do, maybe, a number nine MuggleCast with extra funny, and hold the boring. Price: Free.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Something like that. Ummm, so [Laughs] we’re looking forward to seeing what you guys can do.

Jamie: Andrew, I’m getting kind of worried about your listener challenges. They’re getting more and more sort of scandalous. It’s going to be like Fight Club.

Ben: Daring.

Jamie: It’s going to be, “Right, my challenge this month is to rob a coffee shop and destroy an ornamental fountain, and rob a bank, and bring me the posters…”

[Ben laughs]

Andrew: Actually, that’s March’s challenge.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: March’s challenge.

Eric: I don’t know. I think the hardest part of that entire task is going to be acquiring a “delicious” McDonald’s meal.

Jamie: Yeah. [Laughs]

Andrew: I beg to differ. I think they are delicious.

Eric: Eh, Burger King rules.

Andrew: Yeah, you’re right, Burger King is better. So, we’re going to set a deadline on this. We’re going to make it November 30th. So, you have through the end of November to take the National MuggleCast McDonald’s Month Listener Challenge.

Ben: You get extra points if you’re wearing your MuggleCast t-shirt in the picture.

Andrew: Yes. In the picture.

Eric: Or if you put it on Ronald McDonald.

Jamie: Or Elvis.

Andrew: Don’t ask us how you’re playing for points. Or…

Eric: Or the Burger Goblin where he says, “You must be this tall to go on rides.” [laughs[Just put an extra large t-shirt on him.

British Joke of the Day

Andrew: Yeah. Jamie, can you please enlighten us with a British joke today? I like it when you come up – I like when you come up with original jokes, like the kettle one.

Jamie: I did actually come up with one, Andrew, while we were recording today, okay?

Andrew: Ohhh.

Jamie: Okay, okay, so these people, okay, are on this ship, okay? And they’re all inside the sort of main controlling bin where all the controls are, and there’s one cat sitting on the instrumentation panel, okay? Yeah?

Andrew: Mhm. Yeah.

Jamie: And he’s sitting there. He’s always sitting there. You know? Whenever they walk in, he’s always there. One day they walk in to find he isn’t sitting on the instrumentation panel, so the captain turns to the first mate and says, “Hey have you seen the cat?” and he says, “No, I haven’t. He must have fell off the radar.”

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Andrew: Oh, gee. That was pun-believable.

Jamie: Pun-believable? Good.


Eric: I have an announcement.

Andrew: You do? What, Eric, what is your announcement?

Eric: Well. This is what? Today is the twelfth of November? Okay, this [deep, dramatic sigh] day, four years ago…

Andrew: Oh, gee.

Eric: Four years ago. Oh, gee.

Andrew: I’m going to start crying!

Eric: Oh, gee. Here it is! Here it is! Here it is!

Andrew: I’m going to cry!

Eric: I have been at MuggleNet four years today.

Laura: Awww.

Jamie: That’s very, very, very nice.

Andrew: Round of applause for Mr. Eric Scull, ladies and gentlemen.

Eric: And… And, four years ago today I took up the Caption Contest. On this four year anniversary of the Caption Contest being taken over by me, I’ve started it up again, so that’s it. Just go to mugglenet dot com slash cc, or you can look in the left margin panel under “Fun,” because it is fun, and Caption Contest. So, there you go.

Andrew: Well, cool.

Ben: Well, also, I have an announcement.

Andrew: I’m not even done yet. What?

Ben: Sometime during November, I don’t remember the exact date, is when I joined MuggleNet. So, it’s been three years for me.

Eric: I can’t believe it.

Andrew: Awww.

Laura: Awww.

Ben: I know, I can hardly believe it.

Andrew: And, like that isn’t enough, today is the three… [laughs] three-year. Today
is the one year anniversary of when we did our first live podcast in New York City for the Goblet of Fire premiere.

Laura: Oh!

Eric: That’s right! And I got Emerson to buy me a hat last year. [laughs]

Andrew: I know, because you were like…

Ben: Three-year…

Andrew: …”It’s my three-year anniversary! Buy me a hat!” [laughs]

Chicken Soup For The MuggleCast Soul

Andrew: We’re going to wrap things up this week with a Chicken Soup, the segment everyone loves to hate.

[Ben and Laura laugh]

Andrew: From Pike, twenty eight of Denver, Colorado. This is another election-themed Chicken Soup:

Yesterday I had the joy of waiting in line for three hours to cast a vote in the Colorado election. Luckily, I knew what was ahead of me and I ran home to pick up my iPod and Book Five to pass the time. Listening to old MuggleCast episodes kept me sane standing in line and kept my mind off my stomach growling for three hours. Plus, I was able to avoid talking…

Ben: Why didn’t they run home and get food?

Andrew: …to the disgruntled man in front of me the whole time.

Good point, Ben! Good point. I don’t know.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: But thanks, Pike. We’re glad MuggleCast can help you relieve those election lines.

Listener Rebuttal – Jamie’s Too American

Andrew: Jamie, before we wrap up the show. We got this e-mail this week, and I thought you might want to address it.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: Because, I don’t know. Maybe she’s right. Maybe she’s right.

Jamie: …I thought.

Andrew: Katie of Glasgow, Scotland. She writes:

I’ve tried in vain to ignore this issue, but I’m afraid that it just exasperates me so much that it has forced me into sending an irate e-mail. I’m concerned…


I’m writing concerning Jamie’s frequent use of words such as “trash can,” “kindergarten,” and, most annoyingly, “candy.” Frankly, I’m surprised he has not yet developed an American twang to his accent and does not add “like” into every available pause in his speech (sorry for the stereotype).

Girl, like, you’re so up on that.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Not only is this a betrayal of his own culture, he is insulting the intelligence of the American public by suggesting that they will not be able to understand phrases such as “bin” and “sweets.” Singing “Proud To Be An American” is one thing, but adopting another country’s idiom is another matter altogether.

Whoa snap, Jamie!

Jamie: Katie, I was wondering if you could act like the sky at about 6AM and lighten up, please.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Allegedly!

Jamie: I’m sorry, allegedly. I’m sorry, that was a bit mean. But no, in fact I have met – it isn’t insulting intelligence at all, but I have met some Americans who don’t know what “bin” is. It’s not because they’re stupid, it’s because they’re don’t hear that word. I didn’t know what, you know?

Andrew: Yeah.

Jamie: I – the only reason I knew what a “trash can” was, was because it sounds like what it is. I didn’t know what “kindergarten” was the first time I heard it. When I was in America and Micah talked about how many blocks something was away, I had absolutely no idea what he was talking about because I hadn’t heard it before. It’s just – we’re catering for a mostly American…

Ben: What do you guys say instead of blocks?

Jamie: It’s “streets.” It’s a street. You know? We’re catering for a mostly American audience. I try to Americanize it so, you know, because that’s the majority of the audience.

Eric: That makes sense.

Jamie: I’m sure. And, you know, it takes thinking about it. It’s quite hard to remember to say “kindergarten” and “candy” and stuff like that. But, it certainly isn’t insulting intelligence I just do it because, you know? I mean, we try to do it on the site as well so I thought we should bring it over to this. And I’m not – I’m not betraying my own culture.

Andrew: Traitor. [laughs]

[Laura laughs]

Eric: So, yeah.

Jamie: No. Katie, I wasn’t trying to be mean at all. I was just saying that it really isn’t the case at all. I’m just trying to cater to the biggest audience around. So, yeah. Thank you for writing.

Show Close

Andrew: On that happy, British note, I’m Andrew Sims.

Ben: No, you’re not. [music begins in background] Contact us, email us, at…

Andrew: Oh, yeah.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Andrew: [after brief pause] No?

Ben: Email mugglecast at staff dot mugglenet dot com. Or go to where you can see our contact information, etcetera, etcetera. There’s a feedback form. Click the link that says “Contact”. If you want to send something via mail, send it to PO Box 223 Moundridge, Kansas 67107. Maybe, I think maybe next week we’ll do a PO Box update because we haven’t for a while. Andrew, what are the phone numbers?

Andrew: The numbers; if you’re in the United States, you can dial 1-218-20-MAGIC. If you’re in the United Kingdom, you can dial 020-8144-0677. If you’re in Australia, you can dial 02-8003-5668. We will get back to voicemails next week. When you’re submitting voicemail questions, keep them general questions about the Harry Potter series. Or you know, or they can be some off-beat questions. Also, we want to encourage everyone to get involved in the MuggleCast community such as the MySpace that we have at Become our friend because we are almost at three thousand friends. Probably by later tonight we’ll be at three thousand friends. That’s a lot of people. You can also join theFacebookgroup, MuggleCast. And also be sure to vote for us at Podcast Alley. Join the YouTube group for MuggleCast, join the MuggleCast Frappr, rate and review us on Yahoo! Podcasts, it’s all there. You can also go to for all the community links. But, most importantly, become our MySpace friends.

Ben: Most importantly.

Andrew: We like MySpace friends. So, on that note, I’m Andrew Sims.

Ben: I’m Ben Schoen.

Jamie: I’m Jamie Lawrence.

Laura: I’m Laura Thompson.

Eric: And I’m Eric Scull.

Andrew: Thank you, everyone, for listening, and we’ll see you next week for Episode 63.

Ben: No, 64. Sixty-four, right?

Andrew: Oh, and as a final note – 64, 64. Yeah, 64. And just a final note, [laughs]before I forget. The interview with the creators of the Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix video game will be on our show the week of the 26th, which should be Episode 65.

Ben:: Turkey. Turkey Day.

Andrew: Yeah. The Thanksgiving show.

Eric: Turkey, turkey, turkey, turkey.

Andrew: See everyone then. Or actually, next week. Buh-bye.

Eric: Buh-bye.

Ben: Bye.


Jamie: Oh, meatballs are so nice. Ben, Ben.

Ben: Yeah?

Jamie: The other night I cooked a sort of like, meatballs – beef meatballs in, sort of, curry powder and some garlic and lemon juice and it was so good. And then I made a stir-fry out of it. Oh my God, it was good. It was so good.

Eric: You’re a cook, Jamie.

Andrew: The recipe will be available at

Jamie: Well, yeah. [laughs] Yeah.

Eric: And the Show Notes. [laughs]

Jamie: Do you know what gets me on these cooking programs? It’s so annoying; when instead of saying “pour it in,” they sort of “drizzle it in.” Or instead of, instead of, you know, “sprinkle it in,” it’s “take a pinch and slap it in.” They use…

Ben: Bam.

Eric: Bam.

Jamie: They just use stupid words.

Ben: Bam.

Jamie: It’s so annoying.

Eric: Dash. Just a dash. Just…

Jamie: Yeah. A dash.

Eric: Well, no, it’s just to make it seem so much more exciting and elegant that it actually…

Jamie: Yeah, it would be pretty boring if they put “put it in the bowl and put in it the oven.”

Eric: Not that it is, but if they said, “Okay, put it in the bowl, put it in the oven.”

Jamie: Actually.

Ben: Slam it in the oven.

Eric: You know, it’s just – it’s theatrics.

Laura: That’s nice.

[Andrew, Ben, and Eric laugh]

Laura: But anyway…

Jamie: Do it at 360 degrees and slam it in the oven.

Eric: Jamie, have you finished – have you finished. your Lucky Charms yet?

Jamie: No, I haven’t. I’ve still got like, a box left or something. I have been eating them for breakfast, though.


Written by: Micah, Adrienne, Allison, Amanda, Briana, Jessica, Judy, Mandie, Margaret, Martina, Matt, Megan, Roni, Samantha, Sarah, Shannon and Shelly

Transcript 062

MuggleCast 62 Transcript

Show Intro

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[Show intro music]

Because life takes MuggleCast, this is MuggleCast Episode 62 for November 5th, 2006…allegedly.

Eric: Remember, remember, the fifth of November. The Gunpowder Treason and plot. I know of no reason why the Gunpowder Treason should ever be forgot.

Ben: What is that – what is that from?

Eric and Jamie: V for Vendetta.

[Jamie laughs]

Eric: The quote is V, with the Guy Fawkes mask on, because, Jamie?

Jamie: Well, because a few years ago – quite a few now – Guy Fawkes tried to blow up the Houses of Parliament just like V did in the film, and he didn’t succeed, unlike V in the film, and he got caught, tortured, sentenced to death along with his fellow conspirators. And so we celebrate – I don’t know why we [laughs] celebrate it, actually.

[Eric laughs]

Jamie: But yeah, we do, every single November 5th, by setting off loads and loads of fireworks, basically. That’s it in a nutshell.

Ben: Because he tried to blow a building up?

Jamie: Yeah, I know.

[Ben laughs]

Eric: Well, he’s not…

Jamie: It isn’t just a building, to be fair. That’s like, you know, it’s quite an important building. But, yeah, basically, because he did that.

Eric: It was like – they were against the Catholics, were they? The – there was like oppression.

Jamie: Yeah, I can’t remember the King’s name. I can’t believe, this is so bad, I don’t know this.

Ben: Was that – was that the start of the show, or what?

Jamie: Yes.

Eric: That’s why it’s MuggleCast now. So, it’s 62.

Ben: Oh, so it’s MuggleCast now..

Eric: For November 5th, 2006.

Ben: [laughs] Oh, well, welcome back, everybody. I’m Ben Schoen.

Kevin: I’m Kevin Steck.

Jamie: I’m Jamie Lawrence.

Eric: I’m Eric Scull.

Micah: And I’m Micah Tannenbaum.

[Intro music continues to play]

Halloween Recap

Ben: This is the show where we bring you Harry Potter news, theories, discussion, you know, all that good stuff. This is the first episode after Halloween.

Jamie: Actually…

Ben: How is everybody? What did you end up doing, Jamie?

Jamie: What did I end up doing? I stayed at home, waiting by the door, with my steel-toed shoes on so I could dropkick pumpkins…

[Ben laughs]

Jamie: …and not break my toes, but it turns out that no one…

Ben: And kick little kids in the side of the head, right?

Jamie: Exactly. Specifically that.

Ben: Yeah. [laughs]

Jamie: But no one turned up, no one knocked, so I think they must have heard the show and got worried and not turned up. So, yeah, I had a boring evening in.

Ben: Aw, that’s too bad. What about – what about you, Micah?

Micah: Actually, very similar. Nobody came to my door at all for trick-or-treating. I was kind of disappointed.

Ben: [laughs] We hope that everyone else had a good holiday, too. Without further ado, let’s go to Micah Tannenbaum for a look at this past week’s Harry Potter news stories.


Micah: [in chipmunk voice] At 5:30 PM on November 16th, Bonnie Wright will switch on London’s Marylebone High Street Christmas lights as part of the seasonal festivities. The event will include various live music acts, food and drink, shopping stalls, an appearance by Santa, and a fireworks display.

The team at MuggleNet Fan Fiction has posted the winners of their first annual Quill Awards, which recognizes excellence in fan fiction writing. Congrats to all the winners, and we hope everyone enjoys the stories!

Access Hollywood via Dark Horizons is reporting that Michael Hoffman is in talks with Warner Brothers to direct Half-Blood Prince, which is due for release in November 2008.

An official announcement is expected by the end of the year, and we’ll let you know of updates as we hear them!

HBO on Demand will start airing “a sneak preview” of Order of the Phoenix on November 20th. Right now there are no other details concerning what will be included in HBO’s preview, but our guess is that it might include clips from the trailer, which will be released on November 17th before Happy Feet.

As we reported in October, Goblet of Fire will make its television premiere on November 19th. In association with the movie, HBO is holding a contest to win tickets to the Order of the Phoenix premiere.

Finally, be sure to check out a brand-new interview with David Thewlis (who plays Professor Lupin) where he discusses the fifth Harry Potter film.

[changes to normal voice] And just so you know that that was legit, that’s all the news [changes to chipmunk voice] for this November 5th, [changes to normal voice] 2006 edition of MuggleCast. [changes to chipmunk voice] Back to the show.

Ben: [laughs] Thanks for that, Micah. See…

Eric: [laughs] Micah Tannenbaum!

Ben: See, for those of you who don’t remember, Micah made a bet that if she did not release the title on Halloween, that he would have to say the news in a chipmunk voice and so [laughs] there you have it.

Eric: What?

Jamie: Nice one.

Micah: I kept up my end of the deal, though. So…

Title of Book Seven

Ben: So, Micah, why didn’t she release the title? Do you think she’s not ready? I mean, she did talk about the title, right?

Micah: She did talk about the title.

Kevin: I think she did that just to taunt you.

Ben: Yeah.

Jamie: Yeah. I agree.

Ben: [laughs] Just to taunt Micah.

Micah: I didn’t pay her enough, actually.

[Kevin laughs]

Ben: Well, speaking of which, that’s something we want to discuss, is she said she has a third title for Book Seven. We were all there at Radio City Music Hall the second night – well, some of us were. And she said how that morning, or that day during the – while she was in the shower, she thought of a second title for Book Seven, and now she has a third one and she said that it is ahead by a short nose, or “perhaps that should be a vowel and two consonants.” So, what do you guys think about the whole title stuff?

Eric: I think she added three letters.

Kevin: I think she’s teasing us.

Micah: Yeah, I mean, now there’s not just two, now there’s three. She just
likes messing around with us.

Jamie: Oh, I feel…

Ben: I know. Hopefully, hopefully we’ll get to know what the other two
titles are.

Jamie: I know what it is. It’s…

Ben: What?

Jamie: She’s just added the word “the” to it. That’s two consonants and a

[Eric and Kevin laugh]

Jamie: I bet it’s something, something, and something, and then… Oh, sorry, Harry Potter and something, and then she’s added “the” into it. I bet that’s it. In fact, I will eat…

Eric: You know what that…

Jamie: Actually, no I won’t.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: You stop right there.

Ben: [laughs] “I will eat.” I love those bets.

Eric: Yeah.

Jamie: Yeah. Although, I just think it means that she favors this title above the other two and that it’s just got a few more letters than the other two, as well.

Time on Book Seven Title

Ben: Right, but if she didn’t release the title this – on Halloween,
when do you think we can see it? I mean, when do you think we will see it?

Jamie: Christmas, maybe?

Eric: I don’t want to wait that long.

Ben: I don’t know.

Jamie: It’s like a month.

Eric: I think maybe something like this. Guy Fawkes Day.

Jamie: Huh?

Ben: Yeah, but what about…

Eric: It’s Guy Fawkes Day today.

Ben: Today?

Eric: Maybe by the end of the night she’ll release the title.

Ben: I doubt it.

Kevin: Maybe Christmas?

Ben: So, what do you think this means for the timing of Book Seven? I still
think it’s going to be 2008.

Jamie: Yeah, I agree.

Kevin: Yeah, I do, too.

Jamie: Of course, all the way, 2008.

Ben: But don’t you agree that’s kind of cool because we get to do this for a whole other year?
Isn’t that awesome?

Eric: I don’t know, why don’t we ask the audience? Do you guys want to sit
through this for another year?

Ben: Yeah. [laughs]

Jamie: I can’t hear them right now, I must admit.

Ben: More cities. More cities, more…

Jamie: More continents.

Ben: Yeah, more continents, more…

Jamie: More planets.

Ben: Yeah, for you it’s continents, yeah.

Jamie: More planets. We’ll go to Mars next, Ben.

Ben: Yeah, we’re going to podcast – we’re going to podcast…

Kevin: More planets.

Ben: We’re going to podcast from the moon.

Jamie: Yeah.

[Jamie and Kevin laugh]

Ben: Certainly, I don’t think, the fact that she didn’t release it probably means that she’s still working on it and probably has quite a bit left to go. So…

Jamie: Oh, yeah.

Ben: Sorry for those of you who were counting on 2007. I don’t think it’s
going to happen.

Eric: But something that Ben said about us knowing the other two potential
titles, too. I don’t know if we will or not, because there’s definitely
people who are like, “Oh, I prefer that title better.” You know? And I…

Ben: Well, maybe, maybe they give away too much, like…

Jamie: Yeah, they probably do.

Ben: Besides the title, maybe the other two would add – give us more information.

Jamie: Harry Potter and the Death of Harry Potter.

Ben: She definitely wouldn’t release… Yeah, The Death of Harry Potter. [laughs]

[Jamie laughs]

Ben: She definitely wouldn’t release the other two until after Book Seven is already done.

Eric: Yeah, I would think so.

Jamie: Yeah. And people have read it.

Eric: And after everybody is used to it.

Ben: I just don’t think it’s possible.

Eric: And it could be like an alternate title. Like, did you guys know – no, I’m not going to make the comparison, well, I guess I am. Star Wars: Episode VI was actually, preliminarily, Revenge of the Jedi. And there were actually posters you can get on EBay, Revenge of the Jedi, Episode VI: Revenge of the Jedi, and George Lucas, then halfway through the ad campaign, decided that Jedi weren’t vengeful necessarily in their character, so he turned it to Return of the Jedi.

Ben: Oh.

Eric: And then of course Episode III became Revenge of the Sith.

Jamie: Return of the Sith.

Eric: [laughs] Return of the Sith. Well, they were there.

Kevin: Return of the Sith. [laughs]

Ben: Yeah. [laughs]

Eric: But, yeah. So, that was interesting.


Ben: But anyways, one way you can – one way you can demonstrate your support for our show, if you want us to keep doing this for years, is by voting for us on Podcast Alley. com. I have no idea, no idea where we are right now on [laughs] on Podcast Alley. Sorry, I just looked at the picture there, again.

Eric: Because truth be told we don’t even check it. We just, you know, vote for us.

Ben: Yeah, well see, it’s actually not loading right now. Oh, here we go. Oh, geez, we are number four and we are getting – we’re not even the number one Harry Potter podcast on Podcast Alley.

Eric: Great. Gee, which one?

Ben: So, go out show your support for us, vote for MuggleCast.

Jamie: Please, please.

MuggleNet Book Update

Ben: A little update on the book. We have received quite a few pre-orders
and we’re very pleased with the amount of people, the feedback on it, the
amount of people who are purchasing it, and once again,’s, What Will Happen in Harry Potter 7: Who Lives, Who Dies, Who Falls in Love, And How Will The Adventure Finally End? You can purchase it – pre-order it through Amazon. I think the book’s actually going to be at retailers by the end of this month. So, you can go pick it up at your Barnes and Noble if you don’t want to pre-order it. Yeah, but if you do pre-order, it helps support the show, the site, everything, so go ahead and do that.

Eric: Ben, do you think we might be able to grace ourselves with an
interview with the authors of that novel?

Jamie: No, no, they’re untouchable, Ben, I hear.

Ben: I don’t know, they’re pretty busy.

Jamie: They are very busy.

Kevin: Yeah.

[Ben laughs]

Kevin: Very arrogant.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Well, I figure they had a show…

Jamie: And rather good-looking I hear, as well, from an unknown source.

Ben: Yeah, especially the one…

Eric: We may need to offer them a great portion of our money. You know, we
could broadcast from zero gravity if we pulled the funds enough, because
they are selling zero gravity trips now for what, $3,000?

Kevin: Where did his come from?

Eric: Because…

Jamie: Where did this come from?

Kevin: Yeah, but I think it’s coming from the topic about broadcasting from

Eric: Because we could podcast from the moon.

Kevin: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah.

Kevin: But the thing is, we said that like ten minutes ago. [laughs]

Jamie: Ten light years ago.

MuggleCast T-Shirts

Ben: Another reminder: MuggleCast t-shirts. We will end sale on them on
January 1st. So, this is pretty much your last chance to buy them, as sort
of like the big going out of business sale, but, however, you must remember
this is not like those bands that do this for sympathy.

[Eric laughs]

Ben: And then three months later they come back, you know? [laughs] We all heard of, like, I think KISS – they’re the band during the ’70s, ’80s, ands the ’90s even. They had
three different farewell tours, where they would disappear and then they
would, all of a sudden, they would come back.

[Jamie laughs]

Ben: They wouldn’t have their makeup on or they would have their makeup on, but we’re not doing that. This is seriously it. We are no longer allowed to sell them after January 1st.

Jamie: Yeah. We always record with out makeup on, don’t we, Ben?

[Micah laughs]

Ben: [laughs] Yeah, yes. But, yes, after January 1st we will no longer be allowed to sell the t-shirts, so go out and pick yours up.

Gilmore Girls

And one final thing we need to mention in the announcements this week is, last week Andrew, who is unfortunately not here to defend himself – he bashed the Gilmore Girls, the show that’s on the WB or…

Eric: He didn’t! He didn’t!

Ben: Well, he said what his opinion was.

Eric: [sarcastically] Oh my god!

Ben: And it was not very kind.

Jamie: And he didn’t prefix it with the word, “allegedly,” or, “my opinion is,” or…

Ben: Yeah. Didn’t he say that he thought it was the stupidest show he’s ever seen? [laughs]

Jamie: Apparently. [laughs]

Ben: Apparently.

Eric: Allegedly, “this is the stupidest show ever.” No. I have no problem, I’ve seen a few episodes. I have no problem.

Micah: Well, actually…

Ben: Micah, didn’t Andrew want you to say something about that?

Micah: He did. He actually sent me an official statement by him.

Jamie: From the heart, Micah, from the heart. From the heart.

Micah: [laughs] It is definitely from the heart! He wanted to communicate to the fans that he was just joking and he didn’t want to upset anybody, because we did get a bunch of e-mails from fans. Some of them were a little bit more passionate than others, I guess this is the right way to put it.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: And he also wanted to say that he’s watched a grand total of two minutes of The Gilmore Girls

[Ben and Jamie laugh]

Micah: …so his opinion obviously was not that well-thought out. So, he does apologize to all the fans who like Gilmore Girls and…

Ben: Speaking of Andrew…

Eric: He’s hospitalized right now from passionate…

Ben: Yeah, because The Gilmore Girls fan girls came and abducted him. [laughs] No, he’s – yeah, he’s not here this week. He’s off doing a college visit. You know, he’s preparing for the next level. I don’t know. [laughs]

[Jamie laughs]

Ben: Yup. So, sorry about that.

Eric: What college?

Ben: We’ll make sure that – just realize that it’s our personal opinions.

Kevin: We’ll have to keep him in line.

Ben: We’re sorry that we offended anybody about The Gilmore Girls. We got an email from someone saying that they were deeply offended that we talked smack on The Gilmore Girls.

Eric: This is, after all, a Harry Potter podcast.

Ben: [laughs] Yeah, this is a Harry Potter podcast, not a Gilmore Girls podcast.

Micah: But we were joking, I think, and it was just taken a little bit out of context.

Jamie: Hey, I’m really, really glad it’s not a Gilmore Girls [laughs] podcast, because that show sucks!

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Allegedly! Allegedly!

Jamie: Oh, yeah, sorry. I forgot to mention it.

Eric: So, allegedly you’re really glad.

Jamie: Allegedly glad.

Eric: We’re following in the same pattern here.

Ben: See, we always make these mistakes.

Listener Rebuttal – Peeves

Ben: According to – who sent this rebuttal in? No name. They said:

“Hey, MuggleCasters! I have a comment about your discussion on the ghosts that live in Hogwarts. Laura is right. You can’t get them out of the school, at least in the case of Peeves. Here’s what I hope counts as proof. It’s from the interview between Emerson, Melissa, and Jo. Emerson says, ‘Why does Dumbledore allow Peeves to stay in the castle?’ Jo says, ‘You can’t get him out.’ Emerson says, (and this is the opinion that Jamie and I had), ‘He’s Dumbledore, he can do anything!'”

Jamie: Yeah!

Ben: “JKR says, ‘No, no, no, no, no. Peeves is like dry rot. You can try and eradicate it. It comes with the building. If you’ve got Peeves, you’re stuck.’ And then Emerson replied, ‘But Peeves answers to Dumbledore.'”

[Eric laughs]

Ben: “JKR said, ‘Allegedly.’ Melissa said, ‘Allegedly?’ JKR said, ‘Yeah. I see Peeves as like a severe plumbing problem in an old building, and Dumbledore is slightly better with the spanner than most people. So, he can maybe make it function better for a few weeks, then it’s going to leak again.'”

Jamie: Well, I’m sorry, Jo. You’re wrong. She’s wrong!

Ben: There you have it. We were wrong. Jo, she proved us wrong in this interview.

Jamie: No, she’s wrong, Ben! She’s wrong.

[Eric laughs]

Ben: Yeah, she didn’t know what she was talking about.

Micah: You know what this is?

Ben: What’s up, Micah?

Micah: I was actually reading the interview, and I sent this to Laura. So I think Laura just made up a fake Listener Rebuttal to prove that she was right and the rest of us were wrong.

[Jamie laughs]

Ben: Yeah.

[Kevin laughs]

Listener Rebuttal – More on Peeves

Ben: Alyssa, 16, from Fairfax, California, has a related message for us.

“I was thinking about Peeves as the subject was brought up in Episode 61, and it seems logical to me that Peeves is a shape taken from all of the energy from the teenagers as they run around the school. He must have appeared sometime when the first students arrived at Hogwarts, and will only go away when there are no more students with poltergeist energy left. This is why no one has ever gotten rid of him.”

Jamie: That’s a very interesting point.

Eric: That’s the best.

Kevin: It’s very interesting.

Ben: It would kind of make sense…

Jamie: Yeah.

Ben: …because he’s mischievous, and every kid – even the goody-goody kids in schools – there’s part of them that wants to rebel, even thought they may not do it all the time.

Jamie: Allegedly.

Eric: Allegedly. Yeah.

Jamie: Allegedly.

Eric: I think Alyssa has definitely struck gold as far as – because poltergeist activity to begin with is energy; usually a child’s energy, actually. And I definitely like the idea that it’s feeding off the mischievous sides of all the students. I think teachers, too. Peeves could be using some or taking some that the teachers can’t do. I don’t know. Because if you look at Book Five, they were kind of glad he was creating mischief. So, I think Peeves could feed off of everybody in the castle. Even Dumbledore.

Ben: Mhm. But I don’t think it’s the – I don’t think it’s the same way that he’s feeding like a Dementor feeds off.

Eric: Oh, no, no, no. Not at all.

Ben: It’s actually just – it doesn’t take away from the energy, it just…

Eric: But he is there because it’s there.

Ben: Of the energy, yeah. Hmmm. That’s interesting. I never really thought of that, but yeah. I think Peeves is what… He’s still good-natured, even though he does some pretty mean things sometimes.

Jamie: Yeah, he wouldn’t drown anyone or kill anyone. He’s just going to drop stuff on their heads. He’s mischievous rather than malevolent.

Ben: Right. Definitely.

Eric: I think he’s malevolent too. Just not murderous.

Character Discussion: Luna Lovegood

Ben: Pale eyes, radish earrings – Luna Lovegood. That’s what this week’s main discussion. Micah, did you want to make a few points?

Micah: Sure. Let’s see.

Kevin: Points as to what?

Eric: By the way, this is the main discussion.

Micah: Sure.

Ben: Well, points as to – like, a little bit of information about her.

Kevin: Just to introduce this?

Ben: Yeah, this is the main discussion, by the way.

Micah: Yeah. Okay. Luna Lovegood is a Ravenclaw. She’s a witch in Ginny’s year who’s considered a bit weird by her classmates. She comes by this reputation honestly; Luna simply isn’t like all the other kids. She dresses unusually, she proclaims her strange beliefs to anyone who will listen, and in some ways she seems to be completely out of touch with what’s going on around her. That was from the HP Lexicon.

Luna’s Name Connection

Jamie: Why don’t we start off with her name? Her name, Luna, obviously has…

Ben: Etymology?

Jamie: …etymology with the moon. And that begs the question, is she related to Lupin?

Ben: I don’t think she’s related in the terms of her bloodline, maybe. Not that way. But maybe JK Rowling is trying to say that there’s some kind of connection between these two.

Jamie: Yeah.

Kevin: Maybe in just their personalities.

Ben: Yeah.

Jamie: Well, it could just be that – the moon could just be to perpetuate the Loony Lovegood teasing she receives. It’s all moon, moon-like.

Eric: Well, yeah. Peeves called Lupin “Loony, loony Lupin” or whatever in…

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric: …in Movie Three. And that was obviously, I guess, because he was a werewolf and Peeves knew it or because of his moon significance. I think Luna has different moon significances as in she’s always visiting the moon as in she’s always in space.

Jamie: Oh, that’s very good! Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Eric: Yeah, so they are both loony – they are both related to the moon for different reasons.

Ben: Right. But they’re not related, right?

Eric: Right, right, right. I don’t think the Lovegoods…

Ben: Yeah.

Jamie: No, no. I agree. Yeah.

Is She Really That Loony?

Ben: But yeah, you brought up how they’re always calling her Loony Lovegood, but is she really as loony as everyone makes her out to be? What do you guys think?

Eric: Yeah. She, she actually is…

[Ben laughs]

Eric: …because… Well no, no. She’s not as – it’s not a bad thing, though. Having a little bit of…

Ben: Well, you know how she’s always believing in like the Ministry conspiracy?

Eric: Well…

Ben: Like Fudge making goblins into pies, having an army of heliopaths, [laughs] and all these – all these things.

Eric: [laughs] Being different is not a crime, necessarily.

Jamie: But it’s not being… Yeah, but it’s – there’s a difference between being different and being crazy.

Ben: But is she crazy, though? That’s the question.

Jamie: Yeah.

Kevin: Yeah, I don’t think she’s crazy.

Eric: She, she has a habit, a tendency…

Kevin: I just think she, she has – well, she has some far-out ideas.

Eric: Certain ones.

Kevin: And because of that, she’s ostracized.

Eric: But if she were…

Micah: But I don’t think she needs to be locked up in a straightjacket or anything like that.

Kevin: Exactly, yeah.

Jamie: I think she does. I’d put her in there.

[Ben and Eric laugh]

Ben: No, no, yeah. It’s definitely the – like you said, it’s more of the… Like, she’s eccentric? Is the word I’m looking for…

Kevin: Yes.

Ben: She’s kind of – she’s a little bit out there. She’s kind of like how some people perceive Dumbledore. It’s the same thing, but…

Jamie: Yeah, but it’s different, though…

Ben: Yeah.

Jamie: …because it’s… It is the same, but he is…

Ben: Well, she’s not brilliant like Dumbledore.

Jamie: But yeah, he’s brilliant.

Micah: She’s very open-minded.

Eric: Well, she’s pretty smart, too. Loony has an ability – sorry, Luna has an ability to speak uncomfortable truths and things. She gets past a lot more than other people. Other people would stop short almost and fall short of expressing their mind. Luna, however, knows exactly how she feels and even if it’s crazy or a little outlandish, she is, like, an open person about it but she just gets insulted for having so many different ideas.

The Quibbler

Ben: Right. Well, you know her dad’s newspaper, The Quibbler?

Eric: Yeah. Which doesn’t help being raised by that man.

Ben: Yeah. [laughs] He’s kind of a cook, too, from the way it sounds. [laughs] But the only reliable story that we’ve actually seen The Quibbler produce was in Book Five – at the end of Book Five where they used it to publicize that, you know, Harry did all the interviews.

Jamie: Isn’t it, isn’t it just a plot device, though? It was introduced to provide a method of publishing that isn’t The Daily Prophet that allows Harry to get his story out.

Eric: Well, I think it’s – I think it’s good to know. I think it’s good to know there’s another version of publishing next to The Daily Prophet, because…

Jamie: That doesn’t have the…

Ben: Because The Daily Prophet would sort of…

Eric: Because The Daily Prophet, the Ministry is leaning on the Prophet. And it’s great to see – even if it was a plot device…

Kevin: Yeah, it’s pretty corrupt.

Eric: It’s why I’m not against the idea of The Quibbler. Because people are saying, “Okay, so the Rotfang conspiracy – and Fudge has an army of heliopaths.” Even if, even if he doesn’t, I don’t think that’s the point. The point is to question. You know? “How likely is this?” Could Fudge potentially either have an army of heliopaths or could he just be not doing his job in the other sense of the word? Could he not – could he be hiding something? Is really what that question asks. You know? And…

Micah: So, you think the stories tell something different? Is that what you’re saying?

Eric: Well, I don’t think they’re intended to. I think they’re intended. Somebody actually believes that Fudge has an army of heliopaths, just like somebody believes Sirius Black was Stubby Boardman. They actually believe that stuff, but I’m saying, what you take from it is the minor concepts. You know? Okay, we aren’t supposed to, you know?

Jamie: Some satire is like, I’m sure that The Onion realizes it’s satire. It doesn’t write it believing it. Like The Quibbler probably writes it for entertainment. It’s like, it’s like The Sun over here. It sensationalizes, it exaggerates, it puts questionable facts in, but it doesn’t pretend it’s a broadsheet. It knows it’s a tabloid and so it acts accordingly. The Quibbler probably writes because that’s what their audience wants, so even though it’s not true, they write it knowing it’s not true and write it knowing it’s just for entertainment.

Eric: I don’t know about that. I got the distinct impression that Luna actually believes in nargles and things. So, I don’t know. Like you compare it to The Onion, I would compare it to what’s our main tabloid here? The pointless one.

Micah: The National Enquirer?

Ben: Yeah, National Enquirer.

Eric: National Enquirer. About monkeys from Mars and all sorts of stuff and it’s like…

Ben: [laughs] Yeah.

Eric: In that case, I completely agree with you.

Ben: And then there was…

Eric: They can’t possibly…

Ben: No, no. There was an article in there that said the world’s fattest man has disappeared. It had like, a man that was…

[Everyone laughs]

Ben: …3,000 pounds [laughs] and he disappeared. I don’t know how that happened.

[Jamie laughs]

Eric: Anyway, people, yeah. Definitely those publications I don’t think take themselves seriously, but The Quibbler, that’s why The Quibbler struck me. Because Luna actually purports these kinds of theories, and her father apparently does, too. So, when book sales or rather, magazine sales – issue sales of The Quibbler went up due to Harry’s thing, her father was overjoyed because he could share all his other conspiracies of the government with everybody because he actually believed it.

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric: So, I think this is an instance where people do actually believe what they write for it.

Jamie: Mhm.

Micah: But do you think that that hurt Harry’s credibility at all?

Eric: Mmmm.

Jamie: No, no.

Micah: Having his story published in The Quibbler?

Jamie: No, no.

Micah: No?

Eric: Mmmm. No, because the way, the way it is, is once it’s published there, everybody knows, why didn’t he do it in The Daily Prophet? Oh, because The Daily Prophet

Jamie: Right, yeah.

Eric: You know? So they can immediately justify it. It doesn’t matter where it’s published. It was actually…

Kevin: And it was very important for The Quibbler because now they have the support of Harry Potter. Harry Potter has just said…

Jamie: Yeah.

Kevin: … “Hey, I’m giving my story to The Quibbler over The Daily Prophet.”

Jamie: Yeah, and it’s just a confidence in the publication, as well. So, I assume…

Kevin: Exactly.

Jamie: …you know?

Kevin. Right.

Eric: Don’t you just love how Rita Skeeter wrote that article? [laughs]

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric: Poetic justice.

Luna and Ollivander

Ben: Yeah. [laughs] Yeah. Luna also is described as having “pale eyes,” and another character in the series who has a similar description is Ollivander, the wand maker in Diagon Alley. So, do you guys think there could be any connection between them two?

Jamie: [laughs] Well, I know we…

Ben: Those two?

Jamie: …over-analyze here, but…

Eric: I love the idea.

Jamie: …isn’t that kind of like saying that Harry has got black hair. [laughs] So…

Kevin: I have green eyes, so…

Ben: [laughs] Two people with blue eyes have…

Jamie: Yeah, yeah.

[Micah laughs]

Eric: Right.

Jamie: They have got to be sisters. Seriously, definitely.

Ben: Yeah. [laughs] They both have blue eyes.

Eric: No, but, guys…

Ben: No, I don’t really know if it’s really that, I’m just saying that JK Rowling – it’s different in a series like this when she’ll use certain descriptive words. You know what I mean?

Micah: Right, right.

Ben: I mean, it’s probably a stretch, but it’s still worth discussing.

Eric: Yeah, pale eyes…

Micah: Well, I was reading…

Eric: Yeah.

Micah:Prisoner of Azkaban last night, and the number of times they said Lupin had pale eyes, and Hermione had pale eyes from studying so much. I mean, do you want to start making connections there, too?

Jamie: Yes, I do.

Eric: Oh, really, Micah? So…

Jamie: He’s her daughter.

Micah: You do?

Jamie: So, she’s his daughter. Oops.

Micah: She’s Hermione’s sister? Ummm…

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric: Did you…

[Kevin laughs]

Ben: Yeah, that’s true.

Jamie: They’re one big happy family.

Eric: Did they actually say “pale eyes,” though, Micah? Because I was under the – I believe you, but I was under the impression that was a not widely used term like “pale eyes.” I don’t recall seeing it except for Ollivander and Luna. Did they actually say that for studying?

Micah: I don’t know. Maybe they just said…

Ben: Yeah, I don’t really recall that, but I haven’t…

Micah: …bags under their eyes, or something.

Ben: …read Book Three for a while, and it wasn’t like I was looking for it when I did read it. [laughs]

[Jamie laughs]

Ben: Well, let’s just entertain it for a second here. Luna’s mother was described as being a talented witch who enjoyed experimenting with spells, and it would make sense for Ollivander to be Luna’s grandfather in this case, since he creates wands. I’m not sure if… I’m just reading this from the Writely, but [laughs] I’m not actually sure if that makes much sense. It doesn’t really make logical sense to me. What about you guys? What about you, Kevin Steck? What do you think?

Kevin: I think it’s a far stretch, like we said before. I mean…

Ben: Yeah, I guess we’re going to start making really, really out there predictions.

Kevin: I mean, that’s like grasping at air. [laughs]

Ben: Yeah.

Kevin: There’s – it’s just a single description of a person. I mean, I’d think we would have to have…

Jamie: It’s like grasping at straws with no hands.

Kevin: Exactly. [laughs]

Jamie: At all. So, it’s impossible.

Ben: Yeah.

[Micah laughs]

Ben: Well, okay we’ve established that that is a little bit far out there, but…

Jamie: No, Ben, I think we should reinforce that point. Allegedly.

Ben: [laughs] Allegedly. No. Not only – okay, we’ve established that that is a little bit of a far stretch.

Kevin: Out there.

Jamie: It’s allegedly a bit far-fetched.

Luna’s Connection With Death

Ben: But, but something that isn’t far-fetched is the fact that she does have a strong connection with death. Which is what we saw throughout Order Of The Phoenix, because she can see the Thestrals.

Jamie: Why can she see them, again?

Ben: All those things.

Jamie: Do we know, or do we not know?

Ben: She saw her – who’d she see die?

Jamie: I can’t remember.

Ben: Do you guys know? We need to get this right.

Jamie: Did she see?

Micah: I think her mother, isn’t it?

Ben: Yeah, it was her mother. That’s what I thought, too.

Eric: Yeah, okay. I think it’s unlikely, though, that if Luna’s grandfather is Ollivander, I don’t like to think that Ollivander’s own daughter would be out there in the world testing things to make for her father’s wands. He wouldn’t send her off to go test things.

Jamie: We’ve moved on.

Eric: Blow stuff up.

Jamie: Okay. There’s…

Eric: No, that was just going into the death thing.

Jamie: Oh, sorry. Okay, go on then. Sorry.

Eric: Because her mother died.

Jamie: Okay, yeah, fair enough, fair enough.

Eric: Apparently testing things. So, if it would have been wands for her father, that would have been a little sad. Maybe that’s why Ollivander reserved himself to just phoenix tail and unicorn tail. Phoenix feather, whatever.

Ben: When Harry realizes that Luna can see the Thestrals, too, it makes him feel – it sort of establishes a bond with her, because he doesn’t feel as alone as before. So… [whispers] Yeah. [returns to normal volume] Another thing that Harry and Luna can both do, one of their special talents, I guess. It’s not really a talent, but you know what I mean; how something that they can do, their, what would you call it, Jamie?

Jamie: Uhhh…

Ben: That they’re qualified to do.

Jamie: Their similarities.

Ben: Yeah. Another one of their similarities is with the voices behind the Veil, and she makes a point of reminding him about it. But what’s the difference? I mean the fact that Ginny can hear the voices beyond the Veil, but she can’t see the Thestrals, tells us that they’re two different things.

Jamie: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, definitely.

Ben: Like, two different things qualify you for that. So, what do you think? Do you think it could be you’ve had a near death experience? Because Ginny with…

Jamie: Luna hasn’t though, has she?

Ben: …Book Two. Well, we don’t know.

Eric: Yeah, Ginny has. Well, oh, yeah, I don’t know about Luna.

Jamie: She accidentally choked…

Ben: And Harry, of course, all the time.

Jamie: …on one of her radish earrings, and had to get rushed to hospital. [laughs]

[Everyone laughs]

Ben: So, what else about her connection to death?

Jamie: It’s definitely something. That thing about the Veil, there is clearly something, some type of criteria they’ve got to meet to be able to hear the things. And perhaps, unlike the Thestrals, there are varying degrees of this. So, some people can hear them, some people can hear them and understand them, or whatever. I don’t know.

The Veil is a Lethifold?

Micah: This is sort of going off-track slightly, but we like to do that. So, I’ve gotten a number of e-mails about the Veil actually being a Lethifold. Do you guys…?

Eric: No.

Jamie: Ummm, yeah. It’s the thing – for people who don’t know, it is the creature in tropical climates that sneaks into people’s dwellings and wraps itself around their mouths and suffocates them.

Eric: Right.

Jamie: And then swallows them, leaving no trace of them, whatsoever. So, yeah.

Micah: So, that would be a far stretch?

Ben: That would be a bad way to die…

Eric: There is nothing about whispers, and there’s – if it was a Lethifold it would completely destroy the mythological…

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric: …art of the Veil.

Ben: Why would the Lethifold be there for…?

Jamie: It would move as well, probably.

Ben: Yeah, hundreds of years.

Eric: Yeah, they just grabbed one Lethifold and strung it up for studying at the Ministry of Magic. It just doesn’t…

Back to Luna

Ben: [laughs] Right. It doesn’t make sense. Anyways, back to Luna’s connection to death. She has a conversation with Harry at the end of Order of the Phoenix about Sirius. She seems to be the only person who “understands” Harry, and she listens to him and then lets him be – she’s very accepting. Because, she’s probably used to having everybody make fun of her ideas and thoughts, so she kind of seems like the person that you could confide in. Do you know what I mean? Without her criticizing you. It’d just sort of be like, you say it, and she’s…

Kevin: Well that’s because she’s so open-minded.

Ben: She accepts it.

Eric: Well, and she’s been made fun of, herself.

Ben: Yeah, that’s what I said. She’s…

Kevin: Yeah.

Ben: She knows how it feels.

Eric: So she’s not going to openly criticize.

The Social Outcast

Ben: But the thing is, if she’s so understanding of all these people, why is she a social outcast? Do you think it’s because that she has all these loony thoughts?

Eric: Oh, what do you mean? No…

Ben: Or is it the fact that she’s different? It’s because she’s different, right?

Eric: It’s because she’s different, yeah. I mean, she understands people, and stuff, but who says that makes you popular or worth talking to? Usually, it’s the people who are the outcasts, who do get made fun of, who start understanding how people’s minds work. So…

Ben: Yeah, that’s true because they have a lot more time to think about it.

Eric: Well, they have a lot more…

Ben: They’re not caught up.

Eric: Yeah.

Ben: Yeah, they’re not caught up in the social scenes, and all that.

Eric: Right. Exactly.

Luna in Book Seven

Ben: You know, when we do these character discussions, our favorite thing to talk about, of course, is always their connection to Book Seven. Because a lot of the characters we talk about, it just doesn’t seem like there would be much of a connection to the last book, but what about Luna? Do you think that there’s something that she’s going to have a connection to in Book Seven?

Kevin: Well, they introduced her and they really have – JK Rowling really hasn’t told us much about her, so it tends to lead you to believe that we will see more of her, and at least she’ll play some sort of smaller-medium role in the next book.

Eric: Why smaller-medium?

Ben: Well, doesn’t it… Well…

Kevin: Because… Because…

Ben: Okay. What’s the purpose of Luna? Each character that she introduced has to have some sort of purpose, and what do you think that Luna’s purpose is? Is her purpose served already or…?

Micah: Her purpose was to call the last Quidditch match.

Ben: Oh, yeah. [laughs]

Micah: No, I think she has such a strong connection to death, and she’s not afraid of it. And Voldemort, we all know, has a great fear of death. So, I think having somebody like that on his side, Harry is sort of in a position of just having a good ally, maybe.

Ben: Yeah, because it’s like the opposite ends of the spectrum. Because deep down, I think, everyone fears death. You know? It’s like…

Eric: But some more than most. Some more than others.

Ben: Yeah, some more than most. And Harry – Dumbledore thinks death is the next greatest adventure, but maybe Harry hasn’t realized that in his mind, yet. He hasn’t come to terms with well, death is just essentially what – all it is, is just a part of life. And, he hasn’t really come to terms with that, and Luna’s helping him realize…

Micah: Right.

Ben: “Okay, if I do die, it’s going to be for a greater cause, so it’s really not that bad,” and it’s – it will be interesting. So…

Micah: Well, I think the most important thing that she said was that, at the end of Book Five, when she was talking to Harry, that she was going to see her mother again, and that’s what provided her the greatest comfort. And that was what was so important to Harry, because he said to himself, “Well, I’ll see Sirius again, and then I’ll see my parents again.” Sorry, Eric, I didn’t mean to cut.

Eric: No, when was this? I missed… That was… When Luna said she…

Micah: At the end of Book Five.

Eric: She said she’d be seeing her mother again? I forgot about that.

Micah: Right.

Ben: Yeah. [laughs]

Eric: No, I was going to say Luna, as far as, do you guys think she’s that far in the background? I mean, I was under the impression that…

Ben: Oh, no. After Order of the Phoenix she kind of dropped off the radar. Do you think that…

Kevin: Yeah, she did, yeah.

Ben: Does that kind of prove that…

Eric: I think that…

Ben: …she’s already served her purpose? Or could she come back in Book Seven?

Eric: I think she’ll come back. I think Book Six, why everybody seemed to have fallen off, tapered off, even Tonks and most of the Order was because it was Harry and Dumbledore about Voldemort.

Micah: Yeah, I agree with that.

Eric: It’s my impression still that Luna and Neville, who fought the ending battle in Book Six, would therefore become like a semi – there’s the trio; there’s Harry, Ron, and Hermione. But then I think immediately after is Neville and Luna. Like, immediately after. Like, very close circle. I still see them as very close friends that are going to band together in Book Seven.

Ben: Right, they’re still part of the group, but they’re just not the main members.

Eric: Well, I think a significantly big part.

Ben: Right.

Eric: Well, I think they are main members. I think if there were a main five or a main six, including Ginny, it would be…

Ben: Oh yeah, they would be included.

Eric: Neville, Luna, Ginny, Harry, Ron, Hermione. In reverse order, but yeah.

Micah: I think everyone took a backseat in Book Six to Tom Riddle, because that’s who I really think the book was about. Even more so than Snape being the Half-Blood Prince, so I think a lot of characters…

Eric: Mhm.

Micah: …just got pushed to the back burner.

Ben: Yeah, Book Six was more about us learning about who Voldemort is – that type of thing. So, because Harry has to learn those things in order to have a shot at taking him out in Book Seven, so that’s why we learned those things. That’s why it seemed like everyone else sort of became second tier or behind, like less of a priority in JK Rowling’s mind…

Micah: Right.

Ben: …and in the series.

Micah: And I think that Book Seven will start off where a lot of people wanted Book Six to.

Ben: And where is that?

Micah: Well, sort of after Harry learns everything about the prophecy, you’re sort of expecting him to want to learn more about Sirius and what exactly happened to him. And I just felt that there was a lot of stuff, sort of coming off the end of Book Five, that we thought we were going to get in Book Six and it didn’t happen.

Ben: Yeah, that was a lot of people’s main disappointment with Book Six was, you know? It wasn’t all like they wanted it to be. It was the preparing for the war, I mean there still wasn’t…

Jamie: Yeah, but it was done for a reason.

Ben: …all right.

Jamie: Which we’ll probably find out. It’s like… I mean, she could have just gone straight into the…

Eric: Yeah, and people are dying, and they had that great first chapter, “The Other Minister,: which was great.

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric: Which was amazing.

Ben: Yeah. That was probably one of my favorite chapters of the series.

Jamie: Yeah, it was very good.

Eric: Honestly, it’s really good.

Ben: Just because the way it starts out is so, like, mysterious, you know? It kind of reminded me of the opening chapter of Book One, when it’s like, you know, that really sucks you in because its like, “Whoa. What’s this all about?”

Eric: Well, yeah and that’s what she said, that she was trying to do a chapter like that for quite a few books, but now we finally got the view, you know? What would it be like to be the British Prime Minister and be told about this magical world and have to keep it a secret and all that stuff.

Jamie: Oh, yeah.

Ben: Yeah.

Eric: I just love the scene where he says, you know, “All my workers are really good.” And then Fudge turns to him and says, “Well, yes they’re ours. They’re wizards; of course, they’re good.” Kingsley Shacklebolt and everything.

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric: And the Ministry is taking them back. He’s like, “He’s a plant.” Yeah.

Ben: [laughs] Well, we’re digressing a bit here.

Eric: But. No. Yeah, but the inner circle of Luna and stuff, I still think that’s really good. I think it’s safe to say that Luna will play a bigger role in Book Seven and I don’t think she’s tapering off.

Ben: Yeah. I think everyone will. I don’t really think we’re really going to see the disappearance of, especially since Luna was established in Book Five as you said, you know, the next person in line to be, you know, like the main five or six that you brought up.

Eric: Yeah.

Ben: As part of their little group.

Eric: And its been said, you know JKR said that Book Six really felt like Book Seven: Part One.

Jamie: Yeah.

Ben: Yeah. The novel’s in two halves so…

Eric: Yeah. She was leading, you know, she introduced Slughorn, who was, I guess, one of the final players in this whole plot of what’s going to happen in the final chapter of the book.

Listener Rebuttals – Missing Day

Ben: Okay. Well, you guys, we keep making mistakes. I don’t know how we keep doing it. They were probably a few in that Luna discussion. Yeah, keep sending your e-mails in and tell us what we did wrong. Emery, this is from MySpace, I don’t know how Andrew got a hold of this, but last week we discussed a missing day in the series. How, between Harry’s parents being killed and him being delivered to the Dursley’s, apparently, there was a missing day, and according to Emery:

“October 31st, near midnight, Voldemort attempts to kill Harry Potter after murdering his parents, but his spell rebounds. Voldemort is defeated. November 1st, late evening, Hagrid delivers baby Harry to Dumbledore, who’s waiting at Privet Drive to leave the baby with the Dursleys. There is no missing day. After midnight is November 1st. It is just the next day.”

Jamie: How could we have possibly got that wrong? That’s so obvious. How could we have got that wrong?

Kevin: When did you say this? Last episode?

Ben: This was last week.

Kevin: I could have told you that.

Ben: I don’t know. We just don’t think logically sometimes, I guess. I don’t know.

Jamie: No, we’re just stupid. That is ridiculous. How could we have got that wrong? How could we have thought that between October 31st and November 1st there’s a…

Eric: But there is a missing day theory. There is still a missing day theory.

Jamie: No, there’s not!

Kevin: How is there a missing day?

Eric: I said there’s a theory.

Ben: Do we know when Voldemort killed Harry’s parents though?

Kevin: Yes, the 31st. It was Halloween.

Jamie: Oh yeah. We missed…

Ben: Right, it was Halloween but could it have been, like, 2 AM on Halloween? That’s the thing, because then there still could be a missing day, right?

Jamie: No, there’s not. No.

Kevin: No, because I think…

Jamie: You mean like what, October 32nd, Ben?

Ben: No, like October 31st at 2 AM. You know what I’m saying?

Jamie: I guess.

Kevin: He means it’s like, late, late at night on the 30th into the 31st?

Ben: Yeah.

Jamie: I guess, but stuff must have been happening then, like, you know, Order of the Phoenix members contacting each other, stuff going around, you know? It takes a while to get everything sorted out. I don’t think we can say that they’ve missed out a day.

Ben: Yeah.

Jamie: Just that we don’t know what happened during that time.

Eric: It’s interesting because…

Micah: Well, actually, there’s a whole editorial, a five-part editorial, that’s written on the lost day by Brandon Ford.

Kevin: Whew.

Micah: And I think that there is actually a day that’s missing. I don’t think he would’ve wrote an entire five-part series if…

Kevin: No, but that’s what…

Micah: in fact… Sorry.

Ben: Unless he’s as dumb as we are.

Jamie: Yeah.

[Ben and Jamie laugh]

Kevin: No. I think that’s what Ben was saying, like the only explanation for if there was a day missing is that if the murder happened at 2 AM on the 31st, meaning you had the whole day of the 31st plus the next day too.

Jamie: Yeah, yeah.

Eric: Yeah. The only thing that gets me, people say, you know, that Dumbledore would have needed a day to put all those spells on Privet Drive and definitely all that preparation and all the ancient magic Dumbledore had to invoke. But the problem is, right before Hagrid comes and delivers baby Harry, Jo writes that nothing like this man, nothing like Dumbledore had been seen on Privet Drive before, which kind of implies that he never had never even been there hours before putting up spells.

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric: Or if he did, he was doing it invisibly. I don’t know.

Kevin: You see the thing is though, do you think it’s plausible that someone, that JK Rowling put in a missing day? I mean…

Jamie: Well, perhaps, and we find out in Book Seven.

Kevin: I think she…

Jamie: It doesn’t sound…

Ben: I think it’s just an oversight.

Jamie: Yeah. It probably is.

Kevin: That’s what I’m saying. I think it’s just, you know, exactly what it seems. It doesn’t…

Jamie: But Eric, going back to what you were saying putting spells on the house, I don’t think it’s the kind of magic where you put spells on it, you invoke this kind of magic so there’s sort of, perhaps, certain conditions that have to be met or, you know, certain conditions and a couple of words have to be spoken, or certain ingredients. I don’t think it’s a normal, normal spell.

Eric: Well, no. It’s just like when Dumbledore and Harry were flying back to the lightning-struck tower and Dumbledore was muttering, you know, different language…

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric:…to clear the shield for them to go in. I think it’s something like that.

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric: It’s definitely not a matter of [mutters magical language] and he goes in the backyard [mutters magical language]

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric: It’s more complicated.

Ben: Hmmm. There may be a quote in terms of the timeline, it may seem that there’s a day that’s missing, but I doubt anything that went on during that day is really pivotal to the series. I may be wrong, I may be eating 50 jumbo sausages with Jamie.

Jamie: [laughs] A bit like me.

[Ben laughs]

Eric: It’s just so elaborate though, and the specific stipulations and conditions under which Harry is protected from Voldemort. “As long as he can call it home?”

Jamie: Oh yeah, it’s very specific though.

Eric: “As long as they give him room space, the Dursleys?” It’s incredibly specific.

Jamie: Shouldn’t we clarify that we don’t actually mean a day missing, we mean a sort of extended period of time.

Eric: A period of time that we don’t know about.

Jamie: We don’t mean October 32nd, we just mean an extended period of time that we don’t know. Nothing’s happening. We haven’t heard anything that’s happening in it.

Ben: Right, right.

Jamie: Okay, cool.

Listener Rebuttal – Jo’s Birthday Updates Telling Us Something?

Ben: Our last listener rebuttal comes from Katie, 14, from the Czech Republic. We have listeners all over. That’s crazy. The subject is, “Who lives, who dies theory.”

“Hey MuggleCasters, I thought of this theory before but I haven’t written in until now. As I’m sure you’re well aware, Jo updates her site with birthdays. We’ve seen Harry, Hermione, Ron, the twins, Molly and many more. However, we have never seen the birthdays for the characters that are already dead in the books. Never once have we seen a birthday announcement for James, Lily, Sirius or Dumbledore. Now, if she’s going to update about Molly or Percy or someone else who isn’t exactly pivotal in the series, you’d think she’d update about these important characters, right? At first, I thought that maybe she was giving us birthdays of characters whose birthday we knew from the book or her site, but then I realized that we have never seen Molly’s birthday in the books. And we know Voldemort’s birthday, but she never updates about him. Do you think she might be giving us a clue as to who lives and who dies? I’d love to hear your thoughts.”

Hmmm. Katie.

Jamie: That’s interesting.

Ben: That’s very interesting, yeah. I mean, I don’t know if it’s really a clue, per se. Maybe she just chooses her favorite character. But she likes Dumbledore though. Hmmm. Has she ever updated for Hagrid?

Jamie: Yeah.

Micah: Yeah, she has. But not for Dumbledore. That’s what I think is pretty interesting. And the site was up before Half-Blood Prince was released, and she never once wished Dumbledore a “Happy Birthday.”

Jamie: Well, that could be why.

Ben: Well, I don’t know if this is intentional, though. I don’t know if it’s intentional that she does that because he’s going to die, you know what I mean?

Jamie: Well, it’s kind of like…

Ben: What about Ginny? What about Ginny? Have we ever seen a Ginny birthday? We have, haven’t we?

Jamie: I think we have, yeah. We’ve never seen, but it’s interesting, though, you’re right, we haven’t seen a Voldemort birthday. But if – I don’t think he’d celebrate it. I can’t see his Death Eaters waking him up with a breakfast in bed.

Ben: And a cake.

Jamie: Bringing in a cake, oh yeah.

Micah: [laughs] But she has wished a “Happy Birthday” to Draco.

Jamie: Yeah.

Micah: So… And we consider him to be…

Eric: And that’s just it. Because now we have to – that’s why I like this so much. We can go back and see whose birthdays did she put up, and does that – you guys were all there at “Harry, Carrie and Garp,” when somebody asked her – this is when she gave the Harry thing away. Somebody asked her who she’d invite to a dinner table, and she said, “Oh, wait, I know who dies,” and stuff. She judges things and she judges her own actions…

Jamie: Yeah, she does.

Eric: …and how she can answer questions and how she would do things, based on who lives. So, birthdays could be this fascinating idea from Katie, 14, of Czech Republic, who said…

[Ben laughs]

Eric: …that this is cool.

Ben: Yeah.

Eric: Now we can go back and see if it – I think it makes sense. It makes sense to me.

Jamie: Oh, it is. It’s very clever.

Ben: Yeah, very clever. I never would have thought of it.

British Jokes of the Day

Ben: Now it’s time for everybody’s favorite segment: Jamie’s British Joke of the Day. We haven’t done one of these in a while.

Jamie: English, English. English Joke of the Day.

Ben: English Joke of the Day.

Jamie: Apparently, sorry, allegedly English Joke of the Day. I have – I got an e-mail today, well, actually a while ago now, from Skylar Warren. Actually, let me do that again. I won’t say her last name. I actually got an e-mail a while ago from Skylar, which had the subject, “All puns intended.” It’s like a kind of…

[Kevin laughs]

Jamie: It’s a load of jokes disguised as puns, and I thought these were so funny. I was literally on the floor when I read some of these. Here are a few of them. “Two antennas met on a roof, fell in love, and got married. The ceremony wasn’t up to scratch, but the reception was excellent.” [laughs]

[Everyone laughs weakly]

Micah: Ha, ha.

[Jamie laughs]

Eric: God, Jamie.

Jamie: “A jumper cable walks into a bar. The bartender says, ‘I’ll serve you, but don’t start anything.'” Come on, that’s brilliant.

[Kevin laughs]

Jamie: How can you not laugh at these? These are so good.

Ben: No. I didn’t quite get it at first.

Jamie: These are – okay. [laughs] Okay, okay, okay. “Two Eskimos, sitting in a kayak were cold, so they lit a fire in the craft. Unsurprisingly, it sank, proving once again that you can’t have your kayak and heat it.”

Ben: Ha, ha, ha.

Eric: I don’t get that.

Jamie: Okay, there’s a phrase, “You can’t have your cake and eat it.”

Eric: Oh, okay.

Jamie: So, it’s basically. Okay.

Eric: Yeah, I just hadn’t heard that, okay.

Jamie: Okay. Okay. This is my personal favorite. “A group of chess enthusiasts checked into a hotel and were standing in the lobby discussing their recent tournament victories. After about an hour, the front manager came out of his office and asked them to disperse. Angrily, they said, ‘Why?’ as they moved off. ‘Because,’ he said. ‘I can’t stand chess nuts boasting in an open foyer.'”

[Everyone laughs]

Ben: That’s funny.

Jamie: Okay, and a couple more. Finally, there was this one person, who sent twenty different puns to his friends with the hope that at least ten of them would make them laugh, no pun intended.

Ben: No pun intended, oh, that’s funny. [laughs]

Jamie: Thank you, Skylar.

Kevin: Took me awhile there.

Jamie: I thought they were awesome, so thank you.

Ben: Those were great British jokes, Jamie, or English jokes.

Kevin: Yeah.

Ben: Or allegedly English jokes.

Jamie: Allegedly English. Thank you. Okay.

Voicemails – Reader’s Perspective

Ben: Well, since Kevin finally got his stuff together, the voice mails are back this week. Woo!

Kevin: Oh yeah. The voice mails we’re using this week are the ones we were supposed to be using last week, but you guys never used them. So…

Ben: Here is our first voice mail.

[Audio]: Hey guys. This is Daniel here from Edinburgh, Scotland, and I was reading the Philosopher’s Stone again, and I was noticing that on the first page it says, and I quote, “When Mr. and Mrs. Dursley woke up on a dull, gray Tuesday, our story starts.” Now this makes me think that the Harry Potter novels are just being told by a character in the book. Now J.K. does not use this style anywhere else in the books. It seems to be hinting at the fact that a character in the novels is telling Harry Potter’s life, and we’ll find out who this is in the end. I don’t know if it has any significance, but it’s really been bugging me, and I’d like to know what you think. Okay, I love the show, and by the way, I was in the United States over the last couple weeks and I bought Lucky Charms cereal for the first time, and I can tell you, Jamie, I quite agree with you. They are an amazing cereal. I brought three boxes home with me. Thanks, very much. Cheers! Bye!

Jamie: [laughs] I have to say, Daniel, back to you, your accent’s awesome, and I’m glad you enjoy Lucky Charms.

[Ben laughs]

Eric: Well, it is in third person to begin with, but he asks if we’ll find out who the narrator is and stuff. Based on that, and how she sometimes says, “you wouldn’t think this” or comparisons. Like I said, when we were doing chapter-by-chapter, we called them “Rowlingisms” or something. Just something where she inflected herself to tell the story.

Jamie: Rowlingism, yeah.

Kevin: Yeah, it’s sort of out of context, kind of.

Eric: It’s not like an entity, you’re just supposed to, you know? Sometimes Stephen King sometimes writes like, “I think that you would have known that this person did that…” Something like that.

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric: It’s not like he’s really a character, it’s like, an omniscient, is it? An ever present kind of thing that keeps a story going. I don’t think it’s like an entity we’re going to find out who is telling…

Ben: Right. I think it’s just a narrator or a main…

Eric: It is an all knowing narrator, which is what the actual tense of the books is; third person omnipresent or something.

Micah: Doesn’t that happen in the beginning of Book Six, too?

Eric: I think so. There’s all these – there are moments where she just will say, “I think he did this,” or you know, and compare things. It just keeps the story going, but it’s not necessarily like Lemony Snicket where, you know, Lemony Snicket is…

Kevin: There’s a single, yep.

Eric: …a character narrator.

Ben: And see, the way that the book begins is that’s actually where the story – like, the story is already taking place, Harry’s already 11-years old. That’s just telling you the back story of what happened. There has to be some way to explain that without having, you know, like a page that says “eleven years later,” you know? [laughs] They can’t do that, so they have to, you know?

Kevin: Yep.

Micah: Right. Harry’s not going to be able to tell what happened at that point.

Ben: Thanks for your question.

Eric: So, we don’t think she’s actually an entity that’s going to be revealed in the books, like “Oh my god, it’s Snape!” You know, telling the story.

Kevin: Right.

Ben: Thanks for your question.

Voicemail – Time-Turners

Ben: Here’s our next voice mail.

[Audio]: Hey MuggleCasters, this is Kaitlin, 15, from Maryland. This is in response to the everlasting time discussion that has been going on for the past two episodes. You said something about how technically you could go very far into the past, but then you wouldn’t live long enough to go back to your own time period. My question is, couldn’t you also go forward in time? It’s called a Time-Turner, not a “Time-Back-Turner,” so one could technically go forward in time if they were so far in the past that they would die of old age before returning to their own place. All they would need to do is turn it forward instead of turning it backwards. Just wondering what you guys thought of this? Thanks so much! You guys brighten up my day! Oh, and also, in Hercules the Fates don’t sing and dance. You probably got them mixed up with the Muses. Thanks again!

Eric: [laughs] It’s like the “Time-Back-Turners.” That’s the next band to come out; Dumbledore and the Time Back Turners. They’re going to start, the lights are going to shine, their backs will be turned, and the audience is “turn back, turn back.”

Jamie: [laughs] Funny.

Eric: She says… Her question is can you turn forward in time with a Time-Turner?

Jamie: No, you can’t.

Eric: But it’s called a Time-Turner, not a “Time-Back-Turner.”

Jamie: Kevin, you’ll probably know more about this than me, but isn’t it, it’s impossible to – oh no, wait. Sorry, I’m thinking about something else. It’s impossible to go back in time, only forward, but then we’re talking about Harry Potter here, so that theory’s completely gone.

Kevin: Right.

Eric: Well, if you look at the H.G. Wells, The Time Machine, I think how he went forward in time, he… It was just a matter of…. What happened was the capsule that he was in was protected from all things that would go on, and he was actually in some kind of hyper-space time. In other words, he actually was there for thousands of years while the buildings around him crumbled, and he actually ended up in the future underneath tons of rock.

Ben: Another correlation to time travel in the book comes in Book Four when we see Fred and George accurately predict a score. It’s really obscure. They say, “We think Ireland is going to win, but Krum is going to get the Snitch.” so we think they had a Time-Turner there to travel, too.

Eric: Allegedly.

Ben: I’m pretty sure they did. It makes a lot of sense.

Eric: But the question is did they go…

Ben: But they would have to go forward in time, wouldn’t they?

Eric: Oh, that’s true. Yeah.

Kevin: Right. So, I think it’s plausible.

Eric: Yeah, that’s true.

Kevin: There’s no real way to tell without…

Ben: Or wait, wait. Could Fred and George have gone back in time to make the bet?

Kevin: Have gone back in time to replace their bets? Yeah, replacing the bet.

Eric: Oh, that’s right.

Ben: See, it’s all confusing.

Jamie: They couldn’t have actually known unless they knew, so…

Kevin: I think we’re going to give people a headache again.

Ben: Yeah, sorry about that.

Ben: Fred and George could’ve gone back in time. I don’t know.

Eric: That’s really… But, yeah. So, once you’re back in time you have to live because we’ve only seen it on such a small scale, so would you actually have to live the time you’re in, or could you actually go back in the future again?

Ben: I don’t know.

Eric: Like say they went down a couple days…

Micah: I think you have to live through it.

Eric: Are you sure? Because “Time-Turner,” she said, it’s not the “Time Back-Turner.” I love that.

Micah: But we don’t know that it’s the “Time Forward-Turner” either. We’ve never been shown an example where it says “So-and-So went forward in time.”

Kevin: Okay, let’s go to the next voicemail.

Ben: Before I get a… Yeah. [laughs] That’s probably a good idea.

Kevin: I think we’re going to give people headaches.

Voicemail – Vernon Doesn’t Recognize It’s Not Halloween

[Audio]: Hey, MuggleCast people. I was just thinking about something, and it bugged me, so I so I decided I would call you, because I love the show. So, Voldemort was taken down on October 31st, right, and then Vernon Dursley goes about his day and we learn about his whole day on November first. He sees all these people in weird outfits, and I just realized that never once does he say anything like “Halloween was yesterday! These people are crazy!” There’s never any mention of, you know, Halloween. Which, I don’t know, maybe this is? Thanks a lot! Love the show! Bye!

Eric: Dursley – Vernon should’ve thought that it was absurd, not that they were dressed up in cloaks walking the streets. “The get-ups you saw on young people these days,” but the fact that they were late for Halloween. That should have been brought up. It definitely should have been, and especially on the news. If Dursley – Vernon didn’t say it, the news people should say. You know, people got a little after, post-Halloween kind of cheer. Jamie, they do celebrate Halloween, right, in Britain? I mean, yeah.

Jamie: Of course, yeah.

Kevin: No, they don’t celebrate Halloween.

Eric: Well, they said Burning Day, because they were even talking about Burning Day being November the 5th, and so…

Ben: Hmmm.

Eric: What the heck?

Ben: Well, maybe he doesn’t like to talk about… Maybe, like if they are the kind of people that don’t want to acknowledge the existence of these weird people called wizards, they don’t want to acknowledge anything that’s abnormal or different from them. So…

Jamie: Exactly. And Halloween…

Ben: It could make sense for them to go “Oh, Halloween is a bunch of stupid!” You know?

Eric: Yeah, but you should still recognize that it happened. Like the people like Scrooge, who knows it’s Christmas even though he hates it. He sits in the house. You have to recognize the fact that Halloween was just a few days ago, so it definitely should’ve been mentioned.

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric: Because later JKR says… Do you think it was an afterthought that they were killed on Halloween, or how was that done? Because, well, they say that in Book One that it was Halloween night, don’t they? Because Hagrid tells…

Micah: But my question is, in relation to that, when did Harry show up?

Eric: Oh.

Micah: Was it the following day?

Kevin: Well, yes, because it was November 1st. It was the night of November first, right?

Eric: Well, Hagrid…

Kevin: Hagrid dropped Harry off.

Eric: Yeah. In the book version, he tells Harry the whole story in the cabin of Voldemort and stuff. I think then he says “Halloween night you were…” It just seems so strange that Vernon didn’t say…

Kevin: That he didn’t mention it, exactly.

Ben: I know. I can’t think of any logical explanation of why he wouldn’t mention it.

Eric: Interesting.

Kevin: Well…

Eric: Nobody did. You know? The owls flying everywhere.

Kevin: That’s the thing. Yeah.

Eric: They could have turned it into this big “Oh, it’s a day late, Halloween.

Ben: Yeah.

Eric: Maybe we should propose the whole holiday changes a day off due to these new events.” Nobody was saying that, that we know of. That we heard.

Ben: Yeah.

Eric: But, it’s a really big thing that Halloween was a bad thing for Harry. So…

Kevin: It seems a little strange.

Eric: It seems surreal. It’s… Yes.

Kevin: But I don’t know why – I don’t know. There’s no real reason to – no real explanation to it without hearing it from Jo.

Ben: Yeah. Hmmm, hmmm, hmmm.

Kevin: Good point.

Ben: Yeah, thank you for sending that in. And we have one last voicemail.

Voicemail – Reading Book Seven

[Audio]: Hey guys, I had a question for you. I know that when all the previous books all came out, we all read them that night at midnight, and we didn’t put the book down until we finished it. But I’m thinking that when Book Seven comes out I might not want to do that. I know it would be hard for you guys because of the site and everything, but wouldn’t you want to savor the last book or would you still rush through it because it’s so hard to stop and put it down anyway? Love to hear your thoughts. Thanks, bye!

Ben: Jamie, didn’t BBC do an interview with you?

Jamie: Yeah. For anyone that’s listening and doesn’t understand this, I did an interview awhile back and they asked me how long it would take me…

Eric: We heard this story.

Ben: Yeah. Actually, Andrew put the audio in a previous show.

Jamie: Oh, right.

Ben: Anyway, anyway, they asked him – in case there’s some of you who aren’t up-to-speed with the shows.

Jamie: Okay, I had an interview with the BBC awhile back, and they asked me how long do I think it’s going take me to read Order of the Phoenix. And I couldn’t say, “Well, I might spend a couple of hours reading it, and then go to McDonald’s, then have a rest, then have a cup of coffee then take my time.” So, I just said “About four hours, maybe,” which of course was a complete overestimate. Sorry, underestimate.

[Kevin laughs]

Jamie: It took me a lot, lot longer, but yeah. Basically.

Kevin: Completely impossible. Yeah.

Jamie: And now Ben brings that up whenever he can to humiliate me.

Kevin: Of course.

Ben: Mhm.

Eric: But I don’t think anyone can – can you guys seriously, the first time you’re though it, can you speed-read the Harry Potter books?

Jamie: No.

Ben: I just can’t do it. I mean, I’d rather enjoy it and savor it.

Eric: When there’s a new book out, yeah, I’m trapped. I’m forced to go through in the pace that my mind creates the images for me. I can’t…

Jamie: But Eric, don’t forget, some media sources have to get reviews out within six hours, so they employ people who read at a million words a second.

Eric: Yeah, I get that, but it’s just complete lack of grasping any of the things she’s saying.

Jamie: Not if you – mo, if you can’t read that fast, then fair enough.

Eric: If you skim it, you get plot.

Jamie: There’s a difference between skimming and speed-reading.

Kevin: Yeah, but the question is, guys, the question is; are you going to be rushing through Book Seven when it gets released?

Eric: No.

Jamie: No, we’re going be taking out time.

Micah: No.

Kevin: Well, I’m not. I’m sure we’ll know half the book like two weeks before it’s released, but… [laughs]

Ben: I don’t know, I’d say…

Kevin: I would take my time.

Ben: Yeah, I’m probably going to…

Kevin: I took my time with Book Six. So, I mean…

Ben: I’m going to take my time a little bit more than I did with previous books. Book Five I stayed up all night. Book Six I spent…

Kevin: It will probably take me two days.

Ben: Yeah, Book Six I spent about two, two-and-a-half days. But I’ll probably, probably something familiar with Book Seven.

Kevin: Yeah.

Jamie: I usually do it in like…

Ben: What about you, Jamie?

Jamie: Just like, I remember I got Half-Blood Prince at like – it was in the evening. It was like at 8 P.M. or something like that. Then we got back and I finished it at midday, without a break.

Ben: Yeah, that wraps up this week’s voicemails. Thanks to everyone who sent something in.

Show Close

Ben: Remember you can dial 1-218-20MAGIC for you U.S. listeners and I have the UK numbers here somewhere. I’m used to Andrew just rattling them off.

Jamie: Yeah.

Ben: If you live in the United States you dial 1-218-20MAGIC. If you live in the United Kingdom you can dial 020-8144-0677. If you live in Australia [repeats in Australian accent] Australia, please dial 0280025668. And also you can SKYPE a voicemail question to us to the username “MuggleCast” you can hear Andrew’s lovely voice on there. You can e-mail us at MuggleCast dot com. There’s a contact form on there and also if you want to send us anything please dial – no don’t dial anything. Send something to…

[Eric Laughs]

Ben: …MuggleCast PO Box 223 Moundridge, Kansas 67107. I got a package this past week, from – I got another box of Lucky Charms.

Jamie: Awww, thank you.

Ben: And someone else sent in Christmas ornaments for us to put up on our trees which I will get sent out.

Kevin: Awww, nice.

Ben: So…

Jamie: What for Christmas 2015?

Eric: Next Christmas.

Ben: Well actually, actually they made that joke in the letter. It said…

[Jamie laughs]

Ben: “I’m hoping that you’ll have these by Christmas 2008.” So…

Jamie: Well, Ben…

[Kevin laughs]

Jamie: …somebody sent in a message. I can’t remember who it was, it said that when I was complaining last show that I couldn’t grow any facial hair, they said they would mail a beard for me to the PO Box but, also said that…

Micah: [sighs] Geez.

[Show music begins]

Jamie: …by the time you sent it to me I’ll be able to grow real…

Ben: Be able to grow a real beard.

Jamie: Yeah, yeah in about two days.

[Kevin laughs]

Jamie: So, yeah, it’s a pointless plan.

Ben: No, but no, Jamie, you’re still going to look like a baby forever. For life.

Jamie: Well, that can’t be bad. That can’t be bad. I won’t complain.

Ben: [laughs] Okay, well, that wraps up MuggleCast Episode… What is this now, 62?

Eric: 62.

Kevin: 2.

Eric: What are we going to call this episode? We really haven’t found…

Ben: 62? I don’t… I don’t know.

Kevin: “Allegedly.”

Jamie: “Allegedly.”

Eric: “Allegedly.” “Allegedly MuggleCast.”

Ben: “Allegedly MuggleCast” there you have it.

Kevin: Alright.

Ben: So yeah, for everyone here at the MuggleCast Central, I’m Ben Schoen.

Kevin: I’m Kevin Steck.

Jamie: I’m Jamie Lawrence.

Eric: I’m Eric Scull.

Micah: And I’m Micah Tannenbaum.

Ben: Yeah, Micah. Join us next week for Episode 63. Andrew might be back. With any luck he won’t. No, I’m just kidding. [laughs] Yeah.

[Kevin laughs]

Eric: Is this first episode he’s missed?

Ben: No, no this is like, the fourth.

Kevin: No

Micah: No.

Eric: Yeah.

Jamie: Okay.

Eric: Fourth. Got in the last five

Kevin: All right.

Ben: Yep, bye.

Kevin: Goodbye.

Jamie: Bye

Micah: Bye

Eric: Bye, everybody.


Jamie: I remember I got Half-Blood Prince at like – it was in the evening, it was like at 8 P.M. or something like that. Then we got back and then I finished it a midday without a break. So…

Ben: Geez. Did you think you were some bad*** or something?

Jamie: Yes, Ben that was precisely what I was thinking when I was reading it. I wasn’t concentrating on the…

[Ben laughs]

Jamie: …huge fights at the end or…

[Micah laughs]

Jamie: …the death of one of my favorite characters. I was just thinking of how much of a bad*** I was.

Ben: [laughs] How cool you were…

Jamie: Yeah, exactly.

Ben: …because you read the book.

Jamie: Exactly, because I stayed up all night. Ooh, yeah.

Ben: Yeah.

Jamie: That’s exactly it. No, no, wait, in all seriousness. Yeah, yeah I thought I was a bad***.

Ben: ***

Jamie: I felt bad***.

Eric: Bad***, butt holes.

Jamie: No, no I just, you see, Emerson was up as well, so I thought well I can’t have everyone else reading it, so then they can’t talk about it. So I thought well, you know, I’ll stay up and do it as well. It was enjoyable actually.

Ben: Imagine how mad people would have been if they didn’t finish the book before they interviewed her.

Jamie: Well, exactly. They had to. They had to finish it. I thought I would as well then.


Written by: Micah, Adrienne, Allison, Amanda, Briana, Jessica, Judy, Mandie, Margaret, Martina, Matt, Megan, Roni, Samantha, Sarah, Shannon and Shelly

Transcript 061

MuggleCast 61 Transcript

New Show Intro

Andrew: Domain names from are up to 70% less than the competition. Plus, each domain includes free hosting with a website builder, a free blog, complete email, and much more. Plus, as a MuggleCast listener, enter code “MUGGLE” when you check out, and save an additional 10% on any order. Some restrictions apply. See site for details. Get your piece of the Internet today, at

Andrew [Show Intro with new music in background]: Because we all got some candy in our bellies, this is MuggleCast Episode 61 for October 31st, 2006 – Halloween edition.

[New music continues]

Andrew: [in a spooky voice] Oooooooh! Welcome to MuggleCast Halloweeeen edition! Ooooooooh! Hey, guys, what’s with this new music?

Ben: It’s sweet.

Jamie: Ooooooh! I like it. I like it very much.

Laura: I like it a lot. I think it’s great stuff.

Andrew: I like it, too.

Jamie: Laura, I like it more than you.

Andrew: I have to try the bass line.

[Ben laughs]

Jamie: Yeah. Hey, Andrew.

Andrew: Yeah?

Jamie: Did you use your half an amp – half a watt amplifier…

[Ben laughs]

Jamie: …to record that? [laughs]

Andrew: [laughs] Yes, yes. I used my small little amp to produce this bass.

Jamie: For all people listening: Andrew, in his room, has an amp that
it literally the size of a sort of cell phone. It’s absolutely tiny.

[Everyone laughs]

Jamie: Well, it’s a bit bigger.

Andrew: A cell phone? All right, I think you’re exaggerating. [laughs]

Jamie: I’m exaggerating very, very slightly. Very slightly.

Ben: What did I say about it? I said something.

Andrew: I don’t know.

Jamie: You said that it was a one-watt amp, which is a bit of a high estimate I think, Ben, really.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: [laughs] Guys, come on. It’s like ten. Give me a break. I’m going to buy a new one.

Jamie: Yeah, exactly.

Andrew: Sorry, it came with the guitar. It’s a practice amp.

Laura: That’s pretty hardcore stuff, Andrew.

Andrew: Anyway, we have a special Halloween show for everyone today,
including some hot gossip on Laura Mallory that’s going to get everyone!

Jamie: Yeah. This is steaming hot gossip.

Andrew: Yeah. Ooo! Ooo! Everyone’s going to be like, “Tehe! Gossip! I love gossip!” We also hope you’re enjoying our new Intro music. [pause while music plays in background] I’ll take that as a, “no.”

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

[Jamie hums the theme music]

[Music continues playing]

Andrew: I’m Andrew Sims.

Ben: I’m Ben Schoen.

Jamie: I’m Jamie Lawrence.

Laura: I’m Laura Thompson.

Micah: And I’m Micah Tannenbaum.

Andrew: And now over to Micah Tannenbaum for the past week’s top Harry Potter news stories.


[Audio excerpt from Sorcerer’s Stone]: Troll in the dungeon!

Micah: Oh, really? Good thing I’m not working down there today. But the rest of the transcribers are. Well, good luck!

Goblet of Fire has received two nominations: Best Feature Film and Bafta
Kids’ Vote, in this year’s children’s Bafta Awards. The awards ceremony will take place on November 26th in London.

HBO has opened a contest where you could win tickets to the Order of the
Phoenix US premiere next July, including 500 dollars in spending money and
transport plus accommodation. This contest is only open to US residents. To enter, head over to

And while you’re over there be sure to check out for all your HP merchandise needs. With thousands of products to choose from, if you can’t find a Harry Potter product there, either it doesn’t exist, it’s a dumb product idea, or we’re just not allowed to sell it. I’m glad I get paid by the advertisement.

Speaking of, we’re proud to announce that the first-ever book written by MuggleNet
staff is now available for pre-order for only $11.85 through partner
Alivan’s. The book is titled, What will happen in Harry Potter 7? Who lives? Who dies? Who falls in love? And how will the adventure finally end?

Our fully-customizable Order of the Phoenix countdown is now available.
You can change the countdown to your country’s release date. More countries
and dates will be added as they become available.

Speaking of the fifth movie, Empire magazine’s latest edition included a
three-page spread, where director David Yates spoke about the length of the
film. He said: “The book’s huge, but it actually distills quite easily. That said, I’ve shot a movie that’s probably over three hours, so I’ll have to lose 45 minutes in the edit.” Blasphemy! Yates also discusses Imelda Staunton and Evanna Lynch.

Finally, “We Love The Royle Family Sun,” a special program about the The
Royle Family sitcom, aired this past week on BBC 1, and Jo Rowling made a
guest appearance. We have a video available for you online.

That’s all the news for this October 31, 2006, Halloween edition of
MuggleCast – be sure to check out the Halloween layout on – back to the show!

Andrew: All right, thank you, Micah.

Micah: You’re welcome.

News Discussion: Movie Length

Andrew: We’re going to try something new this week. We are going to talk
about the news a little bit because it’s a good way to keep the show a
little fresh week to week, and this way we can have a chance to gossip about [switches to girly voice] the latest Harry Potter stories, guys!

Jamie: Yeah! Yeah!

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: So, one of the big stories this week was a new interview with
David Yates, where he said that there was going to be a good 45 minutes of
film that they shot that is going to have to be cut!

Laura: What?!

Jamie: He was talking specifically about his length, which I always like
it when men talk about length, because, really, you know, you can’t really
talk about a film, review a film if it’s too long or too short. I think you better keep them into certain categories. There’s more that can be packed into a four or five hour film, so it’s impossible to compare it with a one hour film, because it’s completely different. The plot’s different. You can have a beginning, a middle, and an end and then more in a four hour film, whereas you can’t really in a one hour film.

Andrew: Right, right. That could be said about a lot of things.

Jamie: Yeah, definitely.

Andrew: But, I mean, with this – with the movie – why is WB so concerned about keeping it at about a two-and-a-half hour range? Because that really seems…

Ben: It encourages more people to go out and watch it.

Jamie: Yeah, and it’s continuity, as well.

Ben: Parents don’t want to take their kids to a film that’s going to be
over three hours long.

Jamie: Yeah, exactly.

Laura: Yeah. Kids get squirmy.

Ben: Because it’s going to be like, “Oh, geez. There’s no way he’s going to
sit through this,” and, “Oh, geez. I don’t want to put up with him this long.” So… [laughs]

Andrew: I guess, but then look at Titanic. And how long was

Laura: Yeah, but Titanic wasn’t geared – they weren’t trying to
gear that towards children.

Andrew: No, but adults sat through the whole thing.

Laura: Adults, not kids. [laughs]

Ben: Yeah.

Andrew: Well, don’t you think kids would sit through the Harry Potter
film? I thought the concern was the parents would not want to sit through

Laura: No, I think that…

Andrew: Granted, they probably wouldn’t.

Laura: Well, I mean think about it. A five-year-old? I mean…

Jamie: Yeah, exactly.

Andrew: Yeah, that’s… That’s…

Laura: Sitting through a three-and-a-half, four hour movie.

Jamie: And also it’s like when it goes into a four or five hour movie,
it turns into a new thing.

Laura: Mhm.

Jamie: Like the third Lord of the Rings is known for
being a long film. Or, there’s one film, I can’t remember what it is, it’s like, six hours, and then people – it becomes known for being so long instead of as a film.

Ben: Gone With the Wind.

Jamie: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Laura: Mhm.

Jamie: For an example, Gone With the Wind is
like, three hours, 50 minutes or something. And then – that isn’t a film; it’s a marathon film.

Laura: Not to mention, the longer the movie is, the more people are
going to expect for it to contain, you know, from the books.

Jamie: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah.

Laura: Little facts that would’ve normally be left out. And we know that
directors, especially – I can’t believe I forgot his name – the Goblet of
director. [laughs]

Andrew: David Yates?

Ben: Oh, Mike Newell.

Andrew: Mike Newell.

Laura: Mike Newell.

Jamie: Oh, Laura, you call yourself a fan?

Laura: It totally slipped my mind, but for instance, you know, he said
that the big theme in this one was the boarding school kind of element to

Jamie: Yeah, yeah.

Laura: So, he took those pieces, and Alfonso Cuaron said that the big theme in Prisoner of Azkaban was Harry…

Jamie: Was shrunken heads.

Micah: Was the Whomping Willow?

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: [laughs] No! Harry transforming from a child into a teenager. So, they’re just picking out the main story element that they want the movie to focus around.

Jamie: Do you know, I think it’s funny when people like, speak like, “And I do think this movie is incredibly important for the character development and how the plot progresses.” When I watch a film, I just watch it. I don’t think about these things.

Andrew: Right, right. You want entertainment. [laughs]

Jamie: I’ve never… Exactly. I’ve never ever thought about the development of the character as a whole, and their personal struggle against the forces of evil. I just watch it.

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]

Laura: Yeah, But the thing is…

Jamie: Maybe I’m just dumb, yeah?

Laura: …if the character – Jamie, though, if development is good, that makes the movie entertaining.

Jamie: So, back to what David Yates was saying about that he’s recorded a three hour film, so he’s going to have to cut 45 minutes of it, which, for the non-mathematically inclined among you, means that it should be two hour, fifteen minute film.

Ben: Now that’s stupid. Throw in that extra fifteen.

Andrew: Yeah, I think they would go for two-and-a-half. I mean and granted, maybe WB will finally pull the stick out of their butt and say, “Hey, let’s just go for three hours.”

Jamie: Yeah. Three hours would be okay.

Laura: I think they’re going to have to eventually. I mean…

Ben: No, why would they? Why would they?

Andrew: Especially with…

Ben: Order of the Phoenix is the longest book…

Andrew: With the final book?

Jamie: Yeah, but Book Seven, Ben, is going to be huge, and there’s going to be, like, an epilogue at the start…

Laura: Well, I mean, Ben’s right…

Andrew: It’s not going to be the biggest book; she already said that herself.

Laura: Just because it’s not the biggest book doesn’t mean the content wouldn’t take up a lot of screen time.

Andrew: You have to send it off properly.

Jamie: Yeah, exactly.

Andrew: You have to send it off properly. Just imagine the ending.

Ben: Well, no. They’re going to make as many cuts as possible to make it two-and-a-half hours. That’s what I think.

Jamie: Yeah, but if you’re going to sit through a two-and-a-half hour film, wouldn’t you sit through a three hour film? It isn’t like you’re going to…

Ben: Not necessarily. There’s a rating. With anything there’s a standard. For example, with the radio the amount of time is like, three minutes and thirty seconds. That’s like the average length for a radio song. Anything past that is considered too long.

Jamie: Yeah.

Ben: So, even if it’s just four minutes. So, if you have a movie that’s three hours, some people aren’t going to like sitting through that last 30 minutes.

Jamie: Well, I guess. Yeah.

Micah: But I think we all agreed, though, with, Goblet of Fire, it was very fast paced through that entire time.

Laura: Yeah.

Micah: It wasn’t like you felt like you were really sitting there.

Andrew: It was. Especially the opening. They rushed through all that. I mean the Quidditch World Cup mainly. That was the biggest thing, but there were a lot of cuts in that. They were kind of obvious, too.

Laura: Yeah.

Micah: Yeah, I agree with Jamie. I think, what’s the real difference? If you’re there for two-and-a-half hours, who cares if you’re there for 25 more minutes?

Laura: Well, that’s also coming from our point of view. We’re Harry Potter dorks. It’s sad to say, but I don’t think that they’re only thinking about appealing to the book fans; they’re thinking about general audiences, too.

Andrew: They can’t think about the book fans because of…

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: If you think about just the fans in general, what do they want? A longer movie.

Laura: Yeah, exactly.

Andrew: They’ll sit through, well…

Ben: Well, what’s it about? What’s it about, okay? Is it about pleasing the fans, or is it about boosting the bottom line?

Laura: Or making money?

Andrew: Yeah, yeah. Well, that’s true.

Jamie: It’s about both. It’s a combination of both.

Andrew: It is, but you know WB does not give priority to the fans.

Laura: No, no, of course not. [laughs]

Andrew: Like, you look at Lord of the Rings. There’s extended versions of the movie on the special two disk DVD and you get the whole thing. They really – Peter – or what was the director’s name?

Laura: Peter Jackson.

Ben: Peter Jackson.

Andrew: Peter Jackson. He really did care about the fans.

Jamie: Oh yeah.

Andrew: And that’s why a lot of people did love his work on the films, but then again, there’s a different director for each of these films, and it’s up, really, to WB how much goes in.

News Discussion: Extra Order Scenes on DVD?

Andrew: So, with that said, can we expect to see this all on the DVD? Because that would really be the way to pay the fans back.

Ben: I doubt it.

Laura: No, I don’t think so.

Andrew: Yeah. 45 minutes of content. That’s a lot for extra deleted scenes.

Ben: Well, how much – do we know how much extra footage there was for…

Andrew: Goblet of Fire?

Ben: Yeah, Goblet of Fire or Prisoner of Azkaban?

Andrew: What, 20 minutes worth, maybe?

Laura: I think the DVD that had the most extra footage was the Chamber of Secrets one; there were a lot of extra scenes included on the Chamber of Secrets DVD, but it doesn’t amount to 45 minutes, and none of the other DVDs did.

Jamie: None of them nearly.

Andrew: Yeah. I was pretty happy with the Goblet of Fire DVD. That had a lot of extra bonus features. A lot of behind the scenes stuff.

Ben: But seriously, though. I think I heard somewhere that any extra footage they film that was originally going to go in the movie – they cut out – actually does make it to the DVD.

Prisoner of Azkaban on ABC

Andrew: Hmmm. Okay. In other news, Prisoner of… – I wanted to bring up this story because I really want to know the answer to my question. Prisoner of Azkaban aired on ABC the other day, and you know how some people… Does anyone care? Does anyone watch it? Like, the fans? Because it seems like…

Laura: Well, why? You’ve got the DVD. [laughs]

Jamie: People have it on DVD.

Micah: I actually watched it last night.

Andrew: Really?

Micah: I did.

Andrew: Well, you’re a dork.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: People, some people, I just don’t see, like…

Ben: What about people who can’t afford the DVD?

[Ben and Micah laugh]

Andrew: What? It’s true.

Micah: Well, I tend to watch it more when it’s on HBO just because no commercials and things like that, but a lot of times ABC puts on deleted scenes, and I don’t have any of the DVDs with deleted scenes. So…

Andrew: Oh, okay.

Micah: I’ll watch for that more than anything else.

Andrew: It doesn’t seem like it’s worth posting on MuggleNet because all of the people on the site are hardcore fans, and chances are they watched it a few days prior to when it’s airing anyway.

Jamie: Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew: And, you know, and you look in the comments in the news post and people are like, “Ah, who cares?”

Jamie: Well, exactly. That’s the thing.

Andrew: I don’t know. We should look up the ratings and see what…

Micah: Yeah, that’s a good idea. Last night was a big deal because it was sponsored by Eragon.

Andrew: Oh, was there Eragon stuff? I’m sure is going all out.

Laura: I have a question, and I don’t want to make any of our friends over at Shurtugal angry, but who thinks that the Eragon poster is kind of a big rip-off of the Goblet of Fire one? [laughs]

Andrew: What is it?

Laura: Well, haven’t you seen it?

Andrew: I might have. I forget. Is it just a big “E”?

Laura: No. No, no, no. It’s all of them standing around, and it looks…

Andrew: Oh, yeah.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Andrew: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’ve seen that.

Laura: It looks exactly like the Goblet of Fire poster.

Andrew: Well, of course. They want all the Harry Potter dorks to come out and see it. It’s “the next great adventure film!” That’s not what they’re calling it, but I’m sure that’s what they’re trying to market it to be.

News Discussion: MuggleNet Book

Andrew: Other than that it was a pretty slow news week, but there was one news item that got posted on MuggleNet and nowhere else, Ben.

Ben: Oh! Which one?

Jamie: Yeah, it’s a book. Have you heard of it? We wrote it a few months ago.

Ben: Oh, yeah. [laughs] That one.

[Andrew laughs]

Ben: Go out and buy it.’s What will happen in Harry Potter 7: Who lives? Who dies? Who falls in love? And how the adventure finally ends. The book is written by myself, Jamie, Emerson, Gretchen, and Andy, so go check it out. I mean, you can preorder it from Alivan’s. The book won’t actually be on shelves in your local Barnes and Noble and/or Borders store until late November or early December, so you can pick up a copy now.

Andrew: Is there some sort of money back guarantee I can get if you guys are way off on your predictions?

Ben: Uhhh…

Jamie: We will, uhhh…

[Ben laughs]

Jamie: Yeah. Just yeah.

Andrew: Yeah? Okay. [laughs]

Ben: But also, something else…

Laura: You might need it. [laughs]

Jamie: Yeah. [laughs]

Order Countdown, Visit MuggleShop, Check out Halloween Layout

Ben: Check out MuggleNet now. Speaking of “Order of the Phoenix,” we added Order of the Phoenix countdown.

Andrew: Wooo!

Jamie: Wee.

Ben: So, go ahead and download that.

Andrew: I’m pumped.

Jamie: And MuggleShop.

Ben: We also have a Halloween layout. And, with the holiday season approaching, you can use’s new Harry Potter store called MuggleShop. It has every Harry Potter item. For each purchase you make, we earn a commission. It goes towards supporting the podcast, the site, everything, so go purchase your Harry Potter related Christmas items there.

MuggleCast T-Shirt Update

Andrew: Speaking of purchasing, if you do want to help support MuggleCast, you can also purchase a MuggleCast t-shirt. We’ve also learned, guys, that we will only be able to sell the MuggleCast t-shirts until January 1st.

Ben: So now is the time to buy.

Andrew: If you’re thinking about it, yeah, now is the time to buy. And we’re not kidding. We have to be finished selling them.

Ben: Sales will be discontinued!

Jamie: Yeah, we aren’t kidding.

Andrew: Also, don’t forget to vote for us on Podcast Alley. We appreciate everyone’s vote over there to keep everyone in the podcast community reminded that we PWN! [Pronounces it ‘pawn’] at life.

Tangent: PWN!

Ben: [Mocking Andrew] PWN? [pronounces it ‘pawn’]

Andrew: And at podcasting. Yes, we PWN. [Pronounces it ‘pawn’] P-w-n?

Laura: That’s not how you say it.

Andrew: Do you not speak Leet?

Ben: It’s PWN, [Pronounces it ‘pone’]

Laura: It’s PWN. [Pronounces it ‘pone’]

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: No, we here in New Jersey say “PWN.” [Pronounces it ‘pawn’]

Ben: It’s PQN. [Pronounces it ‘pone’]

Jamie: No, no, no, you mean just you, Andrew?

Laura: A pawn is a chess piece, Andrew.

Andrew: No crap!

Jamie: We ‘queen and castle’ at everything.

[Everyone laughs]

Ben: No, seriously, you just made another flub, now you’re embarrassed again.

Andrew: No, no, I’m serious. We… No, everyone says “PWN.” [Pronounces it ‘pawn’]

Ben: No they don’t, you’re lying.

Andrew. PWN. [pronounces it ‘pone’] Dork. Whatever.

Ben: I’ve been there. Nobody pronounces it ‘pawn.’

Prophecy 2007

Andrew: Moving on. As we announced last week, we will probably be at Prophecy. We can’t officially announce anything yet. They’ve asked us to not start going at it just yet. But we’ve been getting a lot of emails about it asking if we’re going to be there, and it looks like we will go. Maybe not a live podcast, but we will be there.

Jamie: Aren’t we doing a podcast?

Andrew: Probably. I’m not sure yet. But we can’t guarantee anything yet.

Listener Rebuttal – MuggleCast T-Shirt Update

Andrew: We have a rebuttal for everyone now, and then we’ll get into some fun Halloween discussion on ghosts this week, created by Micah. This rebuttal comes from Miranda of Idaho.

“I wholeheartedly agree with Laura that the Department of Mysteries will play a big role in Book Seven. As a matter of fact [laughs] I think the Department of Mysteries and the Love Room will play a huge role as the setting of the final battle between Harry and Voldemort, with Harry utilizing the power within the room to overcome Voldemort. Even though Harry wasn’t able to open the door in Order of the Phoenix, he has to be one of the few people than could actually enter the Love Room, full of what Dumbledore described as the ‘most beautiful and terrifying power’ because of his mother’s love and his ability to love. It makes sense for the one thing that saved Harry in the first place, love, to once again save him, and it being the first thing that brought Voldemort’s downfall also be his final demise. Truly, the only thing that Voldemort doesn’t understand, obviously, is the ancient magic of love, and since Lily’s unprecedented love for Harry was only enough to save her child and rip Voldemort from his body, it will take even stronger love, such as that in the room, in order to actually kill him. Love the show, and Ben, you’re my favorite.”

Ben: Awww.

Andrew: Clearly this girl is nuts.

[Ben, Micah, and Laura laugh]

Andrew: [laughs]Shut up. Good point brought up by Miranda of Idaho. Very nice.

Laura: Thank you, Miranda.

Micah: I don’t know if I agree with the final battle taking place there, though.

Laura: Well, I don’t if that’ll happen, but…

Andrew: I do think that’s a bit of a stretch.

Laura: But, nut, I think that Harry’s going to be there, for some reason.

Andrew: Mhm.

Micah: You think he’s going to study there, don’t you? That’s your big thing, Laura.

Laura: Yes! I don’t think he’s going to go and like, open up a notebook [laughs] and start taking notes, but…

Micah: But he’s going to go there at some point.

Laura: He’s going to go there, yeah. Of course, he has to.

Where Will Final Battle Take Place?

Andrew: Where do you guys think the final battle will take place?

Ben: Hogwarts.

Laura: Not at Hogwarts! Not at Hogwarts. Oh my god.

Andrew: I think it should.

Laura: No!

Ben: Why not, Laura? Why not?

Laura: Every bad fan fiction I’ve ever read in my whole life, they have the final battle take place at Hogwarts, and then…

Micah: No, no, nit

Laura: First years are out fighting Death Eaters. It’s ridiculous. No.

Micah: I think it should be at Godric’s Hollow.

Andrew: Yeah, oh, that would be good. Yeah.

Azkaban in Order of the Phoenix

Andrew: You guys want a cool Azkaban fact?

Laura: Sure.

Andrew: In the movie Order of Phoenix, it’s on a waterfall cliff. Did we say that at the live podcast?

Ben: No.

Micah: No.

Laura: It is, is it?

Andrew: It’s on a waterfall cliff in the shape of a “V.” No, an “A,” but it looks like a “V.” It’s really cool.

MuggleCasters’ Past Halloween Experiences

Andrew: So, since it is our Halloween show, we’re going have a little talk about Halloween in the past. Right, Jamie?

Jamie: Yeah, we are. We’re going to talk about what we did for Halloween as children or what we do now if we still like trick-or-treating and enjoy it. Let’s do it. Andrew, what did you do?

Andrew: Does anyone still trick-or-treat right now?

Laura: No.

Andrew: Okay.

Micah: I do.

Ben: Micah does.

Andrew: [laughs] Micah. I was just wondering.

Laura: My mom won’t let me.

Andrew: [Laughs and imitates Laura] I can’t be out past eight.

Ben: Out of curiosity, when did you guys stop trick-or-treating? For me it was sixth – fifth grade.

Andrew: Oh, geez. I stopped two or three – no. When was it? Eighth grade, I think I stopped.

Laura: I don’t…

Andrew: I don’t know, I just woke up one morning and was like, “I’m not going trick-or-treating this year. It’s lame.”

[Ben laughs]

Laura: I don’t – I think it was probably eighth grade.

Jamie: How do you guys remember?

Laura: [laughs] It’s kind of sad.

Andrew: Well, we know Micah’s answer.

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: Jamie, do you still trick-or-treat? Do they even have Halloween over there?

Jamie: No yes they do, but I have a confession to make. I haven’t ever trick-or-treated, ever, in my life. Nor have I dressed up for Halloween.

Andrew: What?

Jamie: I just I’ve just never ever seen the attraction, to be honest, of going out.

Andrew: Even when you were in third grade, you were like, “This isn’t cool?”

Jamie: Oh, yeah, yeah. I was only interested in, sort of, nuclear physics and maths back then. I didn’t…

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: No, seriously. You never dressed up?

Jamie: No, yeah, I just didn’t see the attraction of it. I just thought, you know, in the freezing cold going out and asking for candy, and most people are mean and they don’t give you good candy, they just give you something.

Andrew: How do you know if you’ve never done it? [laughs]

Jamie: Well, yeah, because I have a very pessimistic view of the world, Andrew. Everybody’s mean.

[Everyone laughs]

Jamie: Everyone only cares about themselves. That stuff.

Laura: Do you guys know that they don’t really have Halloween in Australia?

Ben: Hmm.

Andrew: Really?

Laura: Yeah.

Ben: That’s interesting to know.

Jamie: So, yeah. Yeah, just never done it. Maybe I should. Maybe I’ll find it the most thrilling thing in the world, ever. Perhaps.

Micah’s Goofiest Costume

Andrew: I mean, I know I used to. What was the goofiest Halloween costume anyone has dressed up as? How about you, Micah?

Micah: Goofiest was probably in college, dressing up as a Royal Tenenbaums.

Andrew: Oooh, do you have a picture of that?

Micah: I do, actually.

Jamie: Yeah!

Andrew: Any chance we could use it as our album art for this week’s show?

Jamie: For this week?

Micah: Sure.

Jamie: So you can appear on millions of iPods around the world.

Micah: You want to see me dressed up as Gene Hackman.

Andrew: Yeah.

Jamie: Oh, yeah, that’s my biggest fantasy. I dream that every night.

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: A white-haired old man.

Andrew’s Goofiest Costume – M&M or Eminem?

Andrew: I would have to say, I was an M&M one year, and that was kind of weird.

Ben: Okay, you were Eminem or an M&M?

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: An M&M, I said.

Jamie: Oh, I thought you said…

Ben: Oh, I thought you said you were Eminem one year.

Andrew: No! [laughs] I said an M&M.

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: That’s why I asked you if you carried a chainsaw around with you.

Andrew: No!

Jamie: Because he carries a chainsaw. I didn’t realize – oh my god, that must have sounded so weird.

Ben: I thought you were a rapper.

Andrew: No, I wasn’t the rapper! Why would I be Eminem the rapper?

[Laura Laughs}

Ben: Because [laughs] that’s an actual Halloween costume!

Jamie: Andrew…

Andrew: It is? I’ve never seen someone dress up as Eminem. [laughs]

Jamie: What did you think I meant when I…

Andrew: Eminem isn’t a costume.

Ben: How old were you when you were an M&M?

Andrew: Third grade. [laughs]

Ben: Oh, I was going to say. If you were any older than that, that would be funny.

Jamie: How old is third grade?

Micah: You realize the avatars now, right? Are going to be Andrew’s head on an M&M.

Laura: [laughs] Yeah.

Andrew: Whatever. If someone does that I’ll just put the picture up of me dressed up as an M&M. I don’t care.

Jamie: How old is third grade?

Andrew: Seven or eight.

Jamie: Andrew, what do you think I meant when I said, “Did you bring a chainsaw with you?”

[Laura and Micah laugh]

Andrew: I thought you were joking because it would be a candy M&M and a chainsaw, so it would be kind of funny.

Jamie: Oh my god!

Laura: Yeah, I honestly didn’t get it either yesterday. I was like, what is he talking about?

Jamie: I thought you meant Eminem.

Andrew: Eminem does not carry around a chainsaw!

Jamie: Eminem does though. Eminem.

Andrew: No, he doesn’t!

Jamie: Yes, he does. There’s a picture of him with like, a mask on holding a chainsaw.

Andrew: A picture.

Jamie: Yeah. That means he has done it. Hence, he has done it before. Therefore…

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Andrew: All right. I guess so.

Jamie’s Negative View of Halloween

Micah: Jamie, do you still plan to steal candy?

Jamie: Yes, I’m not going to be nice to anyone. I think my pessimistic view of the world is true, that everyone’s mean. I’m not going to completely disappoint myself. I’m going to be mean as well.

[Ben laughs]

Jamie: I’m going to steal everything. I’m going to dropkick pumpkins. I’m going to – I’m going to take off costumes and throw them in the garbage can.

Main Discussion: Ghosts at Hogwarts

Andrew: So, continuing with our cute little Halloween theme here, we’re going to ghosts at Hogwarts because there are quite a few of them and we’ve never really talked about them much at all. We’ve talked about Peeves once or twice, we’ve probably had a little discussion about Nearly Headless Nick and Moaning Myrtle, but never really had a full discussion on all the ghosts. Isn’t that right, Micah?

House Ghosts

Micah: That is right, Andrew. Ghosts at Hogwarts. You know, each House has a ghost, so what characteristics do you guys think that a House ghost has that links them to a particular House?

Laura: I think it was…

Micah: Based on what we’ve seen.

Laura: …the house they were in when they went to school.

Andrew: Is that always the house that they were…

Jamie: I think it probably is.

Andrew: …that they represent?

Laura: Well, why would… Okay, if Nearly Headless Nick were a Ravenclaw, why would he be the Gryffindor ghost?

Andrew: What I, I… Yeah.

Laura: That makes no sense.

Jamie: That is very true. [laughs] So, yeah.

Laura: I think The Bloody Baron was a Hufflepuff, in that case.

Jamie: Yeah. Yeah.

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Andrew: No, so Nearly Headless Nick was a…

Ben: Obviously.

Andrew: …brave young lad.

Micah: Yep.

Andrew: That’s – that could explain why he is nearly headless, folks.

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: And the Fat Friar was…

Andrew: Maybe Harry’s going the same way.

Becoming a House Ghost

Micah: How do they become House ghosts? Is there a selection process?

Jamie: Yeah, you apply.

[Ben laughs]

Jamie: Fill in a form and send it off, and then…

Ben: No, see, I hate these…

Laura: No, I don’t think so.

Ben: …questions that you can’t even answer.

Jamie: Yeah.

Ben: I mean, there’s like [laughs] it’s all just conjecture, there’s nothing to back it up.

Jamie: The entire show’s conjecture. Jo’s going to answer it in Book Seven, so we should…

Andrew: How do you know?

Jamie: Because she said she will.

Ben: Did she?

Andrew: Oh.

Jamie: Yeah, she did. She said, “There will be more information on why people become ghosts, and why they choose that path.” Because as Nearly Headless Nick says in Book Five…

Ben: But not why they become House ghosts.

Jamie: No, but ghosts in general.

Ben: That’s different.

Jamie: Ghosts in general.

Ben: Oh.

Andrew: Maybe they become house ghosts because they do some sort of service to the school…

Jamie: Yes, that could be it.

Andrew: …that the headmaster wanted to recognize.

Laura: Maybe because they chose to stay at the school. [laughs]

Andrew: Well, right, but if…

Laura: So, if they’re going to stay at the school, then…

Andrew: No, but if I want to turn into a ghost… If I want to be a ghost and I want to stay at the school, that automatically makes me a House ghost? We’re talking about the House ghosts here, just the one. [clears throat]

Laura: Okay, well if they have to do some kind of special service, I doubt The Bloody Baron is exactly considered a…

Ben: No.

Andrew: You don’t, you don’t know that.

Laura: …genuinely nice guy. [laughs]

Ben: Tom Riddle. Tom Riddle did a special service to the school.

Jamie: Yeah, but it’s not everyone who does a special service. It’s just..> Do you think… See, I was planning on saying, “Do you think, when the House ghost dies, he gets replaced by another one?” But can they retire or not?

[Ben, Micah and Laura laugh]

Jamie: Can they say, “Well, screw this. I don’t want to do this anymore,” and then go, or are they tied down…

Laura: No, they…

Jamie: …by a contract?

Laura: I don’t think they can.

Andrew: Well, what else, what else, Laura, do you think could possibly…

Laura: Could possibly what?

Andrew: You know, what lets them become a House ghost? There’s only one per House. That was…

Laura: Well…

Andrew: …the point.

Laura: I just…

Andrew: And then they – they’re probably there forever.

Laura: Yeah, but…

Andrew: I would think.

Laura: …I don’t think they’re specified as “the House ghost.” I think that’s just how they’re known to the students. There’s probably more than one ghost per House.

Jamie: I doubt… There are loads of ghosts…

Laura: It’s just the ones we see.

Jamie: Yeah, but, but that’s – actually, that’s a point, Andrew, you know.

Dumbledore’s Control Over Ghosts

Laura: It’s not like – it’s not like Dumbledore runs around saying, “They’re your ghost prefects,” or whatever, they’re just ghosts that happen to live in the houses.

Andrew: I guess so.

Jamie: Yeah, yeah. It’s like, there have got to be more than five, six ghosts in the entire school that just float.

Andrew: But even so, wanting to stay at Hogwarts, that has to be…

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: …a decision that’s up to the headmaster. I mean, I would think you would really had to have been a great student…

Micah: Yeah.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: …at the school, in order, you know, for Dumbledore or whoever to say, “You can stay in my school.”

Laura: Is it up to Dumbledore, though? Do you really think he has that much control over…

Andrew: Well…

Laura: …the school?

Andrew: …the current, current headmaster?

Laura: Peeves is in the school, and it doesn’t seem like it’s too easy to get rid of him.

Jamie: No, no.

Ben: Well, that’s because Dumbledore wants him around.

Jamie: Exactly. There’s a reason.

Laura: No, I think…

Ben: No, no, no. Dumbledore won’t oust him. They’ve said that before.

Jamie: Of course, that’s true, yeah.

Laura: I know, but I mean, I don’t think that Dumbledore can say – tell a ghost to get out of his school.

Jamie: Of course he can! He’s so powerful, it’s ridiculous.

Ben: Yes, he could.

Laura: Well, he…

Andrew: He could.

Laura: He can say it, but he can’t make it happen.

Jamie: Of course he can! He can… Laura, he can do anything. He can do absolutely anything.

Laura: I’m not saying I know it for sure. I’m saying, yeah, he can do absolutely everything except stop himself from getting killed.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Ben: Ohhh!

Jamie: But he wanted to die, so it’s fine.

Nearly Headless Nick

Micah: Looking at some of the House ghosts, specifically, Nearly Headless Nick, Gryffindor, he died on Halloween, October 31, 1492, and this is something interesting I found out and I didn’t know this, but his day that he died is actually the basis for the entire timeline in the Harry Potter series. Did you guys know that?

Ben: What do you mean?

Jamie: He means that 19 – 1492 is, is when he died, okay? And in – and he celebrates his 500th death, death day in Chamber of Secrets at Halloween, which means that Chamber of Secrets takes place in 1992. Which also means that Philosopher’s Stone

Andrew: Oooh.

Jamie: …took place in 1991, and Harry’s parents were attacked by Voldemort in 1981, and that forms the basis for the entire timeline of the films. Sorry, of the books.

Ben: Hey, I’m not a big fan of…

Andrew: I see.

Ben: …doing that.

Andrew: The timeline thing?

Ben: Yeah, if it makes any sense.

Andrew: Yeah. Some people put a lot of speculation on, like, the timelines. Like there’s a lot of – there’s that one theory about the missing day in between when Harry’s parents were killed and when Dumbledore took Harry to the Dursley’s.

Laura: Well, timeline, timeline or not, I – that day was missing. I mean, if you think about it, the Potters were killed Halloween night, and Harry didn’t show up at the Dursley’s until the next night.

Andrew: I mean, that could just be that he had him at Hogwarts for a day to figure out what the heck they were going to do with Harry.

Laura: But, but Dumbledore didn’t take Harry, Hagrid did.

Andrew: I don’t think they have to make a big deal out of it. All right, so Hagrid took him back to the school, and then Dumbledore, you know, tried to figure out what to do. I mean, that’s a big decision; where you’re going to leave that kid, and…

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: …didn’t Dumbledore say that he was trying to get in contact with relatives, and that’s the only one he could find?

Laura: I don’t think so. I think that they knew that those were his only living relatives, but…

Andrew: Yeah, well, I mean…

Laura: And it’s not like he exactly warned them before he left Harry on their doorstep. [laughs]

Andrew: Right, yeah. I mean, so that’s a big decision. I think people need to stop going crazy over that. [in a mock worried voice] “Oh, what’s happening in the one day? It’s all wrong.” It just doesn’t…

Laura: I don’t think it’s wrong.

Andrew: There’s plenty of explanation.

Laura: I think that if there’s an extra day in there for a reason, it’s not anything she did wrong. [laughs]

Andrew: Well…

Laura: It’s something else that…

Andrew: Well, that’s what I mean. I mean, people are like, “Explain it.” But there’s no explanation.

Laura: Yeah. I don’t think it’s a screw up, essentially.

Andrew: I don’t think so either.

Nick and Harry Discuss Sirius

Micah: Well, Halloween does seem to play a big role in the series in all the different books, for the most part. Do we want to talk a little bit about some of the other events that have occurred?

Jamie: Why don’t we…why don’t we just…

Andrew: Sure.

Laura: Sure.

Jamie: …finish talking about Nearly Headless Nick.

Andrew: Nearly Headless… Yeah.

Jamie: …and talking about when Harry went to speak to him at the end of Order of the Phoenix. What do we think of that, if we can remember? He went to ask him if Sirius could come back, and, well, one of the things that happened was he asked him if Sirius could come back and he said, “He will not choose that path,” and Harry said, “Why? Of course he will. He wants to see me again. Of course he will,” and then he said, “No, he won’t,” which makes me think that perhaps there’s a huge price to pay when you choose to become a ghost. If it means you can come back, there’s got to be something else you can’t do. You know? Like, love or something like that, maybe, and that’s why Sirius…

Ben: Eat. [laughs]

Jamie: …won’t come back. [laughs] Yeah, eat, that’s the big thing.

[Andrew, Ben, and Micah laugh]

Jamie: So, yeah.

Andrew: Maybe he just, maybe he just wouldn’t want to see Harry…

Jamie: Through the eyes of a ghost?

Andrew: Yeah, like, the relationship would never be the same, I don’t think.

Ben: Well, maybe…

Andrew: It’s not like…

Ben: Maybe it has something to do with like, once you become a ghost, you can never, like, you’re always going to exist, you know what I mean?

Laura: Well…

Ben: Like, that makes sense for that to be a sacrifice.

Laura: Well, that’s pretty much what Nick said. He said that it was just kind of a pale existence, that it was basically mimicking the existence they once had. They just sort of got to watch from the sidelines.

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: If you get what I’m saying?

Jamie: Yeah. No, yeah, I think that’s true.

Micah: Also, you limit – and let’s not react in a bad way to this – you limit the physical interaction there can be, and I don’t think that Sirius…

Laura: Well, yeah…

Ben: Can ghosts interact with other ghosts?

Jamie: Yeah, yeah. They…Peeves…

Laura: [laughs] They do all the time.

Jamie: Yeah.

Ben: No, I mean like physically.

Jamie: Yep.

[Everyone laughs]

Ben: In their own physical sense.

Andrew: Like shake hands?

Ben: Yeah, or can they touch each other? Not in a bad way.

[Jamie laughs]

Ben: But like, you know what I’m talking about how like Nearly Headless Nick – this may be a movie thing – but his head falls off and then he reaches up and he pulls it back.

Laura: Well, of course he can…

Andrew: Well, he’s got to be able to…

Laura: …you can touch yourself.

Andrew: Well, I guess if you can touch yourself and you’re a ghost…

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: …then you can probably touch other ghosts.

The Bloody Baron

Micah: All right, the Bloody Baron. How do you guys think the Bloody Baron died?

Jamie: [laughs] He got hacked to pieces, considering all the blood on him.

Laura: Yeah. [laughs] That’s what I was going to say.

Jamie: Or he slipped over a blood factory and banged his head on the ground and died and then that’s why all the…

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: Well, whose or what’s blood do you guys think is on him? It’s described as being “silvery.” Do you think it belongs to unicorns?

Jamie: Yeah but he…unicorns…

Laura: I think it’s silvery just because he’s a ghost.

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: I mean, they’re white and transparent, I think the blood is just silvery because of the composition of a ghost’s body.

Micah: All right, Laura, so how can he keep Peeves under control?

Jamie: Because he’s scary as *bleep*.

Laura: Yeah, obviously there’s something about him that scares Peeves.

Micah: Just like Dumbledore.

Laura: Yeah.

Micah: Meaning Dumbledore can also keep… Well, then what do you think it is about him that scares him?

Andrew: Yeah, what can the Bloody Baron do to Peeves?

Jamie: No, he can, I mean, if it goes back to what we were talking about how ghosts can touch, then clearly, it could be something physical he can do to Peeves.

The Fat Friar

Micah: So, the Fat Friar. How do you guys think he died?

Jamie: He doesn’t seem particularly interesting, the Fat Friar, does he? He just…

Andrew: No.

Laura: No.

Jamie: He, yeah, but as it says here. Sorry, I mean, what I mean is, I have a point. He tries to get Peeves invited to the opening feast in Sorcerer’s Stone and so he seems to be extremely forgiving and he doesn’t care. He’s just happy-go-lucky. Why is he like that? Do you think it represents the house?

Laura: Well, he’s a Hufflepuff.

Jamie: Well, yeah.

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: What? So, [laughs] yeah.

Andrew: Yeah, it sounds like he represents the house.

Ben: Maybe he was too trusting in his life and that’s why he got killed.

Jamie: In his previous life. A bit like Dumbledore.

Andrew: Oh, yeah. Good speculation, Ben.

Micah: So you’re saying Dumbledore’s a Hufflepuff?

Andrew: No. [laughs]

The Grey Lady

Micah: All right, the final house ghost, the Grey Lady from Ravenclaw. We really don’t know a whole lot about her. We don’t really see her that much in the books, but Jamie maybe you know something about this, there are various Grey Lady ghost stories that exist in London. Is that true?

Jamie: Ummm, I have heard a few, yeah. Lady Jane Grey was the great-granddaughter of Henry VII and she reigned as Queen, but she was actually uncrowned and she only reigned for nine days, which, you know, is absolutely nothing. And then I think she was beheaded at the Tower of London. So, yeah, that’s why her ghost is reported to haunt it. But, she’s supposed to haunt other castles as well in different places – haunted places. So, I mean, is there anything there? Like, maybe the Grey Lady was only at Hogwarts for nine days and then she got killed?

Andrew: Yeah, I was going to say maybe… Yeah. [laughs]

Jamie: A bit unlike…

Andrew: Maybe Dumbledore felt bad for her, so he was like, “Come be a house ghost.”

Jamie: Yeah, yeah, well, don’t worry you can become a House ghost.

Ben: How about Professor Binns? How did he…

Andrew: Can we stay on top of Grey Lady for a second?

Jamie: Yeah, Ben, yeah, Ben.

Andrew: Not literally on top of her, I mean…

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Yeah.

Jamie: We’d just fall through and hit the ground.

Micah: So, it’s possible that Jo took the name from there?

Jamie: Oh, I’m sure she did. Yeah.

Laura: Yeah, there’s really no doubt behind that.

Andrew: That would probably the most reasonable explanation for…

Jamie: Yeah, but she’s a very mysterious ghost. I think we hear once that she was floating by or something like that but we didn’t hear anything about her. Perhaps we’ll find something new in Book Seven?

Micah: I think she’s in Half-Blood Prince, if I remember. They said some ghost went by as Harry was talking to Hagrid about overhearing the conversation between Snape and Dumbledore.

Andrew: Oh.

Micah: She seems to be around at kind of interesting times because they said in the movie for Chamber of Secrets and I don’t know if this was in the books too. It was a scene that was cut out where – it’s the first time that Harry goes to open Tom Riddle’s diary.

Andrew: Yeah?

Micah: And he tells the Grey Lady to get lost.

Jamie: No, he doesn’t, does he?

Andrew: Oh?

Jamie: Really?

Andrew: It’s a deleted scene.

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: Oh, sorry. It’s a deleted scene, I see. Sorry.

Micah: But, I don’t know.

Andrew: Why would they cut that? What was in replace of it? Just without the Grey Lady going behind him?

Micah: Yeah, I think so.

Andrew: Do you think Jo could have any involvement in that or they just realized maybe it served no purpose?

Jamie: Oh, she could have had, yeah. If it’s like…

Laura: She could have, but, I mean, I think it was…

Andrew: How do we know it’s the Grey Lady?

Laura: Yeah, I mean, I just think it was another cut they were…


Micah: So, going back to Peeves, why do you guys think he’s allowed to stay at Hogwarts? Why does Dumbledore let him?

Andrew: I think that’s just Dumbledore’s got a soft spot in his heart.

Laura: Yeah, I think Dumbledore is kind of amused by him, to be honest.

Ben: I think there’s some other reason. I don’t know what, but there’s some other reason.

Andrew: Why? Kicking him out would just be mean and that’s not like Dumbledore.

Micah: But, he’s also a poltergeist. He’s not an actual ghost.

Ben: What’s the difference?

Jamie: One’s mean.

Laura: Poltergeists were never alive.

Micah: Well, actually…

Jamie: Oh, is that true?

Laura: Yeah, poltergeists are pure energy, it’s what they are. I mean, poltergeists are actually considered to be real things. Not like the ones you see in the movies, but, especially like young teenagers, like 13 or 14-year old girls exhibit so much electrical energy that they can actually make stuff fall over when they’re really angry.

Jamie: Ahhh.

Laura: And that’s considered a poltergeist.

Ben: Let’s see…

Laura: So, it’s actually, it’s kind of a manifestation of a residence, I think.

Ben: Hold on. Hold on, noisy ghosts…

Micah: It says it’s a jerk. And a noisy ghost… Yeah.

Ben: Poltergeists are invisible masses of spirit or energy that may or may not be connected to a living human agent. Some of the most common poltergeist activities include loud, unexplained noise, levitation, the moving of objects, and electrical problems. It’s from Google.

Andrew: Okay, so there’s no stopping Peeves, so it’s not like Dumbledore can be mad at him for doing what he’s doing.

Jamie: No, I’m sure that Dumbledore could get him out if he wanted to, though. There’s no way he couldn’t find a way. Well, he couldn’t now, he’s dead.

Laura: I think Peeves probably came with Hogwarts, kind of like the way…

Jamie: Maybe it’s Slytherin.

Laura: …house elves come with houses.

Andrew: Hmmm.

Jamie: Could be.

Ben: I don’t know.

Jamie: No, I was just going to say, Laura can’t be right because Hogwarts predates Nearly Headless Nick, so the ghosts of the thing obviously came afterwards.

Laura: But poltergeists aren’t ghosts of people. [laughs] That’s the thing.

Jamie: Yeah, I know.

Ben: They can be though.

Jamie: But, Ben’s just…

Laura: No, no, no, no, no. The definition you read said that it can be connected to a person, meaning it can be caused by a person.

Jamie: But…

Laura: Not that it’s a person’s spirit.

Ben: Right. But it’s the same thing, it means “noisy ghost.”

Laura: No, it’s not.

Professor Binns

Micah: All right, wrapping up the ghost discussion – Professor Binns. He didn’t even notice that he was dead, he just got up from teaching one day and kept on teaching.

Jamie: He must have realized when he tried to sort of put a sausage roll in his mouth and it just fell down and hit the ground.

[Micah laughs]

Jamie: He must know he’s dead now. He’d have to be gormless, very gormless.

Micah: Maybe not.

Ben: So he just fell asleep by the fireplace? Isn’t that what happened?

Jamie: And died and then…

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: …got up, so he must have had unfinished business as well. But you know, is to impart knowledge of goblins into the minds of young, eager students.

Ben: What did he die from? Do you know?

Laura: Old age, I think. I don’t think it was terribly specific.

Jamie: No.

Andrew: He fell into it.

Jamie: Yeah [laughs]

Micah: And this question [laughs], it’s kind of far out there but he taught Tom Riddle. Do you think he can provide any useful information for Harry?

Laura: I think that was what Slughorn was for.

Micah: Yeah, I agree with that.

Jamie: Yeah, that’s true.

Micah: Well, what’s left?

Andrew: I mean, well, he could tell Harry about Tom Riddle. Is that…

Laura: I don’t think so though.

Andrew: …what the question was about?

Laura: Because, you see, he doesn’t pay that much attention to the students anyway.

Andrew: It doesn’t matter, I mean, well…

Laura: He keeps calling Harry “Mr. Perkins” or something…

Jamie: But Laura, he…

Laura: …he doesn’t even call him by his last name.

Jamie: Yeah, but he knows a lot about the Chamber of Secrets. So if he knows about that, he clearly know stuff about Hogwarts’ folklore legend and stuff, although of course, he said it didn’t exist which was incorrect; wrong.

Andrew: I mean. And plus, it was a really long time ago that he taught Tom, so he could possibly, I don’t know. You would know something about your students, like he’s got to know about Harry. After teaching him, he’s got to gather some information about him. Like maybe he knows a weakness or something.

Laura: I guess.

Andrew: I don’t know, you never know, there could be a whole back-story to it.

Laura: Maybe, I just think that the purpose that Slughorn served was to provide insight on Tom Riddle as a student at Hogwarts. I think that’s already been taken care of.

Jamie: Mhm, agreed.

Andrew: Yep, all right, that concludes our discussion on some ghosts at Hogwarts. Was it spooky?

[Laughs comically with Ben].

Listener Rebuttal – Ron and the Brains

Andrew: Before we get into our little Halloween debate, first, we have a rebuttal from Mark from Northern Ireland, age 29. He writes:

“With regards to the idea that Ron may have suffered lasting effects as a result of his attack by a brain. You should remember the quote by Dumbledore where Dumbledore does say:

‘Well, Harry’ said Dumbledore, finally turning away from the baby bird, ‘you will be pleased to hear that none of your fellow students are going to suffer lasting damage from the night’s events’.

Dumbledore made it clear to Harry that none of his friends, including Ron, will suffer no lasting damage, although J.K.R. briefly reminds us about lingering scars on Ron’s arm in Half-Blood Prince. In the chapter “Hermione’s Helping Hand,” there is a passage that reads:

‘You can still see the marks where that awful woman made you write with your own blood, but you stuck to your own story anyway.’

She says to Harry. And then Ron says:

‘You can still see where those brains got a hold on me in the Ministry of Magic, look,’ said Ron shaking back his sleeves.’

‘And it doesn’t hurt that you’ve grown about a foot over the summer either,’ Hermione finished.”

[laughs] Hermione, you’re so funny. So, what do you guys think? I mean, this is interesting because, on the one hand, Dumbledore is saying that there is no lasting damage, but what is he talking about? Physically or mentally?

Jamie: Exactly. I think that Dumbledore would think that, you know, physical damage is absolutely nothing. The complete opposite of what Voldemort would think, who would think that physical damage is terrible…

Micah: Right.

Laura: Mhm.

Jamie: You know. I think that Dumbledore would always consider there’s no lasting mental damage, but he might have a few scars, which is nothing to what Dumbledore would, you know.

Andrew: Right. That’s a good way to look at it.

Laura: I think that it can go either way honestly.

Debate: Halloween

Andrew: Yeah. Moving on to our debate now. Today’s debate topic is: Trick-or-Treating is a morally vapid delinquent activity that exploits the fear of human beings into giving material gifts. Jamie and I are affirming and Micah and Laura are denying, and Ben will make his decision at the end. Jamie, you got two minutes. Go!

Jamie: Okay, while Trick-or-Treating is extremely, you know, important to children and they think it’s quite a bit of fun, it really is very, very morally vapid. And, you know, it’s delinquent activity because people think that dressing up in costumes is fun, it’s scary, but they don’t realize the implications of what they’re doing. You just imagine, you’re 85-years old sitting at home and somebody knocks on your door.

[Ben laughs]

Jamie: You think, “It’s got to be a visitor,” because at that age, you’ve lived in a different generation, and you think that everyone, you know, is being nice. When you open the door, you don’t realize that it’s a joking child. You see a person with a knife and automatically, you think, you know, this could be very bad. It’s dangerous or bad things can happen. The only good thing that can come out of it is free candy, and things that are free aren’t really free. So…

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: …when a child takes that free bit of candy, he thinks it’s free, but really, it could cost a dear, dear old person their, you know…

Ben: Dignity.

Jamie: …enjoyment for that evening. Yeah, their dignity. It could’ve hurt them, you know, mentally to open the door and see somebody there. Also, getting things for free…

Ben: One minute, Andrew.

Jamie: Okay, go, Andrew.

Andrew: Not only that, you will be footing a bill for getting all those cavities taken out of your teeth.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: Because you eat so much candy that night that you won’t have teeth. Not only that, I agree with Jamie; it is dangerous. My T.V. tech teacher told me a story once where his friend would put staples [laughs] into the candy and give it to kids

Jamie: Yeah. Loads of children have died.

Andrew: And these kids would eat it and then hurt themselves really bad because you’re chewing on staples. [laughs] No, wait, were they staples? Or were they nails? Oh, no, they were thumbtacks [laughs] inside the candy and it’s just terrible. It’s very dangerous. You never know what’s going into your candy.

Jamie: Yeah, also, also, things that are free aren’t automatically good. You shouldn’t get things free now-a-days. You should buy your candy. You should work hard, manual labor, buy your candy, that’s the way the world goes around. Go!

Ben: Okay, that concludes [laughs] the affirmative.

[Andrew giggles]

Laura and Micah…

Andrew: We won.

Ben: …tell me, tell me, why is Trick-or-Treating not morally vapid?

Laura: Well, I think first of all, if you want to say that it’s bad to get things for free, then you need to get rid of Christmas, not Halloween.

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: And like any other holiday, it’s just something for people to look forward to. It’s Jo’s favorite holiday; I don’t think she’d endorse something that was morally vapid. It’s a celebration passed down, which originally was honored the dead. Which, you know, isn’t a bad thing. And saying that Halloween causes delinquency is like saying…

[Andrew and Micah laughs]

Laura: …that Harry Potter creates Satanism. So, you’re wrong.

Ben: Mic-er?

Micah: I mean, Halloween brings about a sense of community too, you’re going around and you’re interacting with your neighbors…

Laura: Yeah.

Micah: You know? if you’re getting something free out of it, I don’t see how that’s wrong, and dressing up.

Laura: And see, I don’t know about you, Andrew, but my parents always checked my candy [laughs] to make sure no one put anything in it, maybe…

Micah: And honestly…

Laura: …maybe nobody did that for you.

Andrew: Is it open now?

Micah: That’s sort of…

Jamie: No, not yet.

Micah: …morally vapid on the sense on the person providing the candy, not the kids going out and Trick-or-Treating.

Laura: Exactly.

Jamie: Okay, okay, a community, you say, Laura you say that in… Sorry, Micah, you said that it encourages…

Micah: Yeah, because I sound like Laura.

[Everyone laughs]

Jamie: …a community. How does it encourage community? I’ve never, ever seen dressing up as scary figures encouraging, you know, friendship and stuff like that. Laura, you said…

Laura: Well, Jamie, you wouldn’t…

Jamie: You said… Laura, Laura, Laura…

Laura: …know. You’ve never gone Trick-or-Treating.

Jamie: …Laura, Laura, Trick-or-Treating…

Andrew: I second Jamie’s motion…

Jamie: …teaches people to interrupt…

Andrew: …as an experienced Trick-or-Treater.

Jamie: Yeah, there you go, see? And also, you said that the proper holiday was, you know, brought down from All Hallows Eve, celebrating the dead. I fail to see how going out, engaging in juvenile delinquent and immature activity…

Laura: Okay, people…

Jamie: …encourages a proper holiday.

Laura: Jamie, people are going to participate in delinquent activity whether there’s Halloween or not.

Jamie: No, it’s… They should be at home reading a book.

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: They should be, I don’t know how it increases… It just teaches people that they can get things for free by scaring people.

Laura: So does Christmas and Easter and…

Jamie: Yes, it does.

Laura: …every other holiday.

Jamie: It’s all commercialized.

Andrew: It’s the season of giving.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: This is not the season of giving. We’re not there yet.

[Ben laughs]

Jamie: They should be…

Micah: Jamie, just because you got egged and toilet papered as a kid doesn’t mean that you have to hate Halloween.

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: Okay.

Andrew: I’ve got one word for you all. In the words of Steve Irwin [does Steve impression] “Danger!” It’s dangerous, it’s very dangerous.

Jamie: All the bad things that can happen do not outweigh – sorry, do outweigh all the good things that could happen.

Andrew: You could hurt yourself.

Jamie: It’s just, there are so many things that could go wrong with it. The parents are letting children – and it’s normally children, of course, who go trick or treating. They are letting them out of their sight. In today’s world, you don’t know who is out there.

Micah: They walk around with them! What are you talking about!

Laura: [laughs] Yeah.

Jamie: They could knock on somebody’s door, a very dangerous door, and open it and they could be – there could be people there who…

Laura: Okay, that is not the responsibility of the holiday, that’s the responsibility of the parent.

Jamie: You’re absolutely… Laura, You’re absolutely right.

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: They can go trick or treating and get taken in by a [pronounces it “pee-do-file”] pedophile…

[Micah laughs]

Jamie: And bad things can happen. But it’s fine because All Hollow’s Eve is celebration of the dead. Is it right to encourage it and increase it by [laughs] this? It’s just, it’s just dangerous, it’s a dangerous activity. Everyone will still have fun without it. Children – there are other ways to have fun than going out, on your own or with parents because some people do it on their own, and knocking on doors and getting free candy. It’s…

Micah: It’s one day out of the year, though!

Jamie: There are economic reasons, educational reasons, social reasons.

Laura: What are the economic reasons, Jamie?

[Ben, Andrew, Laura and Jamie laugh]

Laura: What are the economic reasons?

Jamie: The people should be taught the value of money, Laura.

Micah: I’m sure Hershey and Nestle and all those companies don’t have any problem with the economic reasons.

Jamie: You cannot get things free by scaring people. That is not what you should be taught when you are young.

[Ben laughs]

Laura: You don’t scare people! People open up the door and gush about how cute the little kids are in front of them.

[Ben and Andrew laugh]

Jamie: Yeah, because people dressed as Grim Reapers with blood pouring down them. Oh, lovely! I think they’re cute.

[Everyone laughs]

Ben: Okay, Andrew…

[Andrew laughs]

Ben: Laura – Laura and Micah. You have one minute to tell me why you should win.

Laura: I think that… I mean, there’s no question. It’s a holiday that creates community. If you want to say get rid of Halloween, then you have to say get rid of Christmas, because there are tons of dangers that can come up with Christmas. I mean, come on, you’ve got a fat guy coming down your chimney. [laughs]

Micah: [laughs] If that’s not a pedophile, I don’t know what is.

[Everyone laughs]

Ben: Anything else?

Jamie: That is a good argument so far.

[Laura laughs]

Micah: And it’s a holiday. You’re not getting rid of it, you’re not going to change it no matter what happens.

Laura: Yeah, and like I said, you can’t say that Halloween causes people to run out and be delinquents. People are delinquents everyday. [laughs]

Jamie: Okay, can we go now, Ben?

Laura: It’s just an excuse.

Ben: Five seconds.

Jamie: It’s been about five minutes.

Ben: Two, one. Okay, Andrew and Jamie, why, why?

Jamie: Okay. Laura, you have changed this completely saying that we should get rid of the holiday. We shouldn’t get rid of the holiday, the holiday is a celebration of the dead. People should use Halloween to remember love ones past, not go around.

Andrew: Yeah!

Jamie: When you think of Halloween, you think of Trick-or Treating. You think of getting material gain. Material gain is a bad thing, okay.

Andrew: Yeah!

[Ben laughs]

Jamie: But we should be celebrating our –

Micah: So, you don’t want those Lucky Charms?

Laura: Okay, so…

Ben: No, no, no, no! You guys can’t interrupt! You guys can’t interrupt.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Yeah! [laughs]

Ben: Shut up, you can’t interrupt. They didn’t interrupt you, so shut up.

Jamie: It is important to remember the true meaning of holidays. Christmas: the birth of Jesus Christ; Halloween: remembering the dead. We shouldn’t commercialize things. Yes, we have commercialized all these holidays, we shouldn’t do it though. Halloween we should go back and go back to its roots. Remember the dead. Trick-or-Treating is dangerous – it can be very dangerous. It teaches people the wrong things. It encourages them to egg houses – that is not good in today’s world. You can’t go around doing that, but it teaches them that it’s fine because it’s a joke. But it’s not a joke. They then think it’s funny to do it. They do it at other times, it turns into bricks.

Andrew: Yeah.

[Ben laughs]

Jamie: They cause complete stuff – bad things to property. It is not a good idea.

Ben: Okay, okay. That’s it.

Andrew: Hey, let me… I have one last thing. It’s not Trick-or-Treat: it’s trick or DIE!

[Ben laughs]

Jamie: I agree.

Andrew: Thank you.

Ben: Something that was funny about that entire time was the only input Andrew added was [does impression of Andrew] “Yeah”.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Andrew: I know.

Jamie: That was an awesome ending, Andrew. I liked that.

Andrew: Thanks.

Ben: Okay, I’m going to have to vote with Andrew and Jamie.

[Andrew, Ben, and Jamie laugh]

Jamie: Yeah.

Ben: And here’s why. Here’s why, it’s because…

Laura: Here is why: because Ben has a pattern of not voting for the team that Laura is on. I’ve noticed this.

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Ben: No.

[Andrew laughs]

Ben: Not true, not true. I beat you. I debated against you and beat you once. Anyways – no. Here is why, here’s why. Laura and Micah were focusing on saying, “Well, the holiday is not going to be eliminated anyway and it creates community.” But when you look to what we were debating over is that: “Trick-or-Treating is a morally vapid delinquent activity that exploits the fear of human beings into giving material gifts,” and that is what Andrew and Jamie focused on. They focused on the fact that it’s promoting the…

Andrew: Yeah!

Jamie: Yeah!

[Laura laughs]

Ben: …what tangible gifts you get out of the holiday, rather than focusing on the true meaning of Halloween.

Andrew: Death.

Ben: You guys, Laura and Micah, brought up Christmas. “Well, what about Christmas; that encourages it too.” Jamie and Andrew weren’t saying that Christmas is okay, they were saying that it’s all bad. It’s all bad. You guys never actually denied the fact that it’s encouraging kids one night of the year to go out and egg peoples houses and toilet paper them. So, yep.

Laura: Actually, we did, Ben. [laughs]

Ben: Huh?

Laura: That was – our big thing was saying Halloween doesn’t cause delinquency.

Ben: Yes, it does though.

Laura: People are delinquents everyday.

Ben: No, they are. But that’s one night where it’s like everyone goes out and does it.

Jamie: It encourages it, though.

Ben: Yeah.

Laura: Okay.

Jamie: Yes they are everyday, but it still encourages them.

Laura: Okay, people do that at Christmas too. People do that on holidays.

Ben: No, they don’t!

Laura: Yes, they do!

Ben: Not nearly as much, not nearly as much.

Andrew: No, nobody causes trouble on Christmas. [laughs]

Ben: Yeah, who goes out and eggs houses on Christmas?

Laura: Oh, please!

Andrew: I’ve never heard of that to be honest with you.

Laura: People…

Jamie: Laura…

Laura: People use excuses…

Ben: She made it up.

[Jamie laughs]

Laura: No, I didn’t.

Jamie: But, Laura…

Andrew: Alright well, we’ll see what the listeners think.

Ben: Your vote.

Chicken Soup For The MuggleCast Soul

Andrew: Popular… How about we just let the… No. No, we’ll do the same debate rules. While we’re doing some outrageous discussion topics here, we have a Chicken Soup for everyone that is pretty funny and I thought we could read it this week. It comes from Paige, 18, of Massachusetts. She writes:

“The other day I was riding the bus to Harvard Square while listening to MuggleCast and at one of the stops about 97 high schoolers got on the already fairly full bus. Each time we went around a curve in the road or around a corner we were so weighed down that the bottom of the bus would scrape ominously on the road and we would tilt to one side. For the first couple minutes, I was terrified that I was going to die, then I realized that it would not have been so bad to die at that moment because I was listening to MuggleCast. [Andrew laughs] Needless to say I did not die, however thank you for alleviating my fear of dying.”


Micah: That is *bleep*.

Jamie: Wow.

Andrew: You guys didn’t think that was funny? That was funny, I burst out laughing.

Micah: Ben is right, these people just make *bleep* up.

Ben: Yeah.

[Everyone laughs]

Listener Rebuttals – Accio Pronunciation

Andrew: We also have a rebuttal now from – I guess this is a lady named She Who Must Not Be Named, 18, of Absolutely Nowhere. She writes:

“Dear MuggleCast, I’ve been wondering how on Earth you are supposed to pronounce [pronounces it ‘ah-see-oh’] Accio. My friends have several theories on it, on how it’s pronounced, but I figured I’d have the excerpts…experts…”

Ben: [laughs] Excerpts.

Andrew: [laughs]

“…argue about it. So far I’ve heard it about three different ways, but I was wondering what you guys think. Is it Accio [pronounced ‘ak-see-oh’], Accio [pronounced ‘ah-key-oh’], or Accio [pronounced ‘ah-see-oh’]. I personally think it is Accio [pronounced ‘ak-see-oh’] because the word ‘accept’ also begins with ‘acc’ and is pronounced ‘ak-sept.’ However, no theories are safe from you, so I’ll let you handle that.”

I actually went on and used their cool pronunciation guide.

Jamie: Oh.

Ben: Is it [pronounced ‘haw-grid’] Hagrid too?

Jamie: [laughs] Yeah.

Ben: Can you say [pronounced ‘haw-grid’] Hagrid?

Jamie: [pronounced ‘a-las-tor’] Alastor.

Ben: [pronounced ‘ru-bay-us’] Rubeus. Rubeus.

[Micah and Laura laugh]

Andrew: I don’t know, but what do you guys think it is?

Laura: I think it’s [pronounced ‘ah-see-oh’] Accio.

Jamie: Hey Ben, shhh, you know who I mean [pronounced ‘vol-de-more’] Voldemort.

Laura: But in the movie they say [pronounced ‘ak-e-oh’] Accio.

Jamie: I say that. I say [pronounced ‘ak-e-oh’] Accio.

Andrew: Do they? The real, according to the…

Laura: Yeah, they say [pronounced ‘ak-e-oh’] Accio, I think it’s [pronounced ‘ah-see-oh’] Accio though.

Andrew: Yeah, it is.

Ben: I heard Jeff Guillaume from HPANA called it [pronounced ‘ach-e-oh’] Accio.

[Andrew laughs]

Ben: I don’t think that’s right.

Andrew: I think that’s a little off.

Ben: Well, how did you say it, Andrew? How did you used to say it?

Andrew: [pronounced ‘ah-see-oh’] Accio.

Ben: [laughs] No, no.

Andrew: No, I probably used to say [pronounced ‘ak-e-oh’] Accio.

Ben: I say [pronounced ‘ah-see-oh’] Accio.

Andrew: [pronounced ‘ah-see-oh’] Accio.

Jamie: You can’t trust the Scholastic pronunciation guide, because that woman is so softly spoken. Isn’t she, Ben? It’s ridiculous.

Andrew: [laughs] I know.

Jamie: She can’t get more softly spoken.

Ben: [pronounced ‘ru-bay-us’] Rubeus.

Jamie: Yeah, no.

Ben: [pronounced ‘ru-bay-us’] Rubeus. [laughs]

[Andrew laughs]

Jamie: And she says [pronounces it ‘kah-noots’] knuts as well, so anything she says is automatically wrong.

[Andrew, Micah, and Laura laugh]

Andrew: Geez!

Micah: I think you should do it from now on, Jamie.

Jamie: No way.

Micah: Apply for the job!

Micah’s Halloween Prediction

Andrew: Now, Micah…

Ben: Mic-er!

Andrew: …Halloween is coming up, and you did make a little promise a few weeks ago. And now today is Halloween, and we’re recording – so everyone knows – on Sunday. So, even if it’s true, we didn’t know, so don’t be like – if Micah was right, don’t be like, “Well, you didn’t release the show on the day it was announced, sp.” No, this is being recorded on Sunday. So…

Ben: This has been projected for weeks.

Andrew: Micah, you still – yeah. Are you still sticking with your prediction?

Micah: Yeah! I’m sticking with the prediction that on Tuesday, she will reveal the title of Book Seven.

Laura: And what if you’re wrong?

Andrew: Yeah. We need to make a little bet here.

Micah: We can make a bet. You guys…

Andrew: What do you think, Ben?

Micah: …have to come up with the alternative.

Andrew: What do you think, Ben?

Ben: Her bet? For his bet, I mean?

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: I think he should have to do the news like a chipmunk.

Andrew: Ooo! I like that!

Jamie: Yeah, that’s it, yeah.

[Laura laughs]

Micah: All right!

Andrew: That’s what we’ll do.

Jamie: [singing in a chipmunk voice] Watch out, cause here we come!

Andrew: Are you going to do it, Micah?

Micah: The full news or part of the news?

Andrew: The full news.

Jamie: [still singing] It’s been awhile, so we’re back in style. So, get set to have some fun!

Micah: Yeah! That’s fine.

Andrew: All right!

Micah: I’ll accept that.

Ben: Are you that confident it’s going to happen?

Jamie: Whoa.

Micah: Yeah! Yeah.

Jamie: Awesome.

Laura Mallory Update

Andrew: And now, we have – we have a Laura Mallory update for everyone, because you might remember that we tried calling her twice two weeks ago and the show before that. And a guy named Peter wrote in to us. He said he too tried to call her, and he had better results than we did. [laughs] And he writes:

“I decided to call up Laura Mallory, and she picked up. She said that the press has distorted a lot of her story and that she has read most of the books. I said stuff like Harry Potter shows good over evil, but she said you have to fight evil with evil.”

Jamie: Good argument, good argument.

Andrew: “She says heard…”

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: “She says she has heard of MuggleCast, but she doesn’t listen to it.”

Well, no kidding.

“She said she doesn’t have time to talk to you MuggleCasters, though.”

Ben: All right, let’s call her up.

Andrew: I’m sure she’s very busy doing a whole lot of banning right now.

Ben: Complaining.

Jamie: Complaining. Complaining and hating, yeah.

Andrew: Watching Desperate Housewives right now.

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: That is – yeah.

Andrew: “She said she doesn’t answer her phone much either. Also…”

Jamie: Her phone is clearly an indication of evil as well. Aw, it’s terrible, you know? Satan lives in her phone.

Andrew: Also, she…”

[Everyone laughs]

Jamie: I understand.

Andrew: “Also, she talked about kids doing witchcraft and how it’s real and stuff.”

Jamie: Trick or treat, trick or treat, trick or treat.

Andrew: “We talked for a little while and she talked about things she said – things she said on the show. I then said if she had time to talk at all these meetings, how come she doesn’t have time to talk to you guys? She then said that she had to go.”

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: Hey.

Andrew: “She was just avoiding my questions, though. She said it was a blessing that I was talking to her and maybe we will wake up to see the truth about witchcraft and Harry Potter.”

Oh snap.

“I was just going to say that she could not let her kids read it and not stop the whole state, but she had already hung up. Maybe you guys should try calling again and see what happens.”

And then he gave us the number that he used, and we did use that number.

Pickles on Gilmore Girls

Andrew: Moving on – who caught the latest episode of Gilmore Girls?

Jamie: Not me.

Andrew: No one?

Laura: Mmm.

Andrew: I’m the only one who watches?

Ben: Mmm?

Andrew: Oh, okay. Well…

Laura: You watch Gilmore Girls? [laughs]

Andrew: Yes, of course, Laura! No, I wasn’t really watching them. We got a lot of emails, though, today, because the latest episode of Gilmore Girls – which I’m sorry, is the stupidest show I’ve ever seen. I had to download it to get the sound clip.

[Ben laughs]

Andrew: On the latest episode, they had a huge pickle reference, because they kept referring to some sort of illegal substance as crack or…

[Andrew, Micah, and Laura laugh]

Andrew: …as pickles. So, they do a code name. So and they…

Ben: They borrowed it from us.

Andrew: It went something like this:

[Plays audio clip]

Lorelai: Hey, Rory.

Rory: Hey, what’s going on?

Lorelai: Ah, well, Star’s Hollow smells like pickles.

Rory: Pickles?

Lorelai: Pickles?

Rory: Pickles, pickles?

Lorelai: Pickles.

Rory: Why?

Lorelai: Because the pickle train crashed?

Rory: Is this a joke? Is this a long, boring joke that I’m not going to get?

Lorelai: No, it’s no joke. The town smells like pickles because the pickle train was derailed.

Rory: A train full of pickles? Who knew there was such a thing?

Lorelai: Well, pickle train conductors, for one. It sounds so fun. I would have been the greatest pickle train conductor! Can you see me? “All aboard, you pickles!”

Rory: Mmm. Clearly you missed your calling.

Lorelai: Well, luckily there’s you. You’re young, you’re clever, you’re our great pickle-train conductor.

Rory: I can’t believe I’m missing this.

Lorelai: Well, you can celebrate next year on the anniversary. Now what’s going on with you?

[Audio clip ends]

Andrew: So there you go. You know, I hear that the producer of Gilmore Girls actually listens to MuggleCast, and that’s how…

Ben: Probably.

Jamie: I heard that, too.

Andrew: …they had the idea. Because – how many listeners are we up to now?

Jamie: Four million?

Andrew: 25 million?

Jamie: No, it’s a bit less. It’s twenty or something, but…

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah, maybe I’m exaggerating a little bit, but…

Jamie: Sweden dropped out. They banned it, so we went down five million.

[Andrew and Ben laugh]

British Jokes of the Day

Andrew: Yeah. And to wrap things up today, we have a British joke of the day.

Jamie: I have a couple of Halloween ones and then a normal one today.

Ben: Hold on, is this a British joke or just an English joke?

Jamie: Oh yeah, it could just be an English…

Andrew: I guess we should say it’s an English joke.

Jamie: No, no, no! Because I…

Andrew: Just joking.

Jamie: I think I’m talking for Scotland and Wales and Northern Ireland as well, so I think it’s a British joke.

Andrew: [laughs] Okay.

Jamie: Okay. First one: which building in New York does Dracula visit? The Vampire State Building.

[Ben, Jamie, and Laura laugh]

Andrew: Ooo. Figured it had something to do with Empire.

Jamie: [laughs] Okay.

[Andrew imitates Jamie’s laugh]

Jamie: Okay. Okay, one sec. Okay. Who was the most famous French skeleton?

Andrew: I don’t know.

Jamie: Napoleon Bone-aparte.

[Everyone laughs]

Jamie: Okay, this is good. This is good. What happens when the popular goats – sorry, ghost – gets lost in the fog? He is mist.

Andrew: What?

[Jamie laughs]

Andrew: Oh.

[Everyone laughs]

Jamie: This is brilliant.

Andrew: Way to laugh, everyone. Way to add to it.

Jamie: Yeah, excellent.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: You were a ghost.

Jamie: How did the ghost go on holiday? This is terrible, I must admit. [laughs]

Andrew: I don’t know.

Jamie: By scare-plane.

Andrew: That’s just dumb!

Jamie: It is atrocious. Okay. Why don’t skeletons go to parties? Because they have no body to go with.

Andrew: Oh, ho, ho, ho.

[Everyone laughs]

Jamie: Okay, now away from the Halloween theme, this is a joke I made up. Okay?

Ben: No, you didn’t.

Andrew: Oh!

Jamie: I did! I swear I did! I swear I did.

Andrew: Ben stinks.

Jamie: Two kettles are arguing, okay?

Andrew: [laughs] What are you…

Jamie: [laughs] Okay?

Andrew: How did he come up with this?

Jamie: Two kettles are arguing. They keep swearing at each other and shouting. One of them – somebody says, “Why are we arguing?” The other one says, “Oh, we’re just letting off some steam.”

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, that wasn’t bad, actually! Those were pun-believable.

Jamie: Okay, so there we go.

Halloween Delinquency

Ben: So has your house ever been toilet papered or egged, Jamie? Is that why you’re so…

Jamie: No, but I’ve only lived here, in this house in Durham, for about four weeks.

Ben: No, but what about at home, though? Has your house…

Jamie: No, it hasn’t, actually. No, no, it hasn’t. Oh! We once got a plant pot thrown at the front door.

[Andrew, Laura, and Micah laugh]

Andrew: On Halloween, or just some random…

Jamie: No, it’s just normally, I think. Actually don’t think it had anything to do with Halloween.

[Andrew and Ben laugh]

Andrew: Oh geez.

Micah: Oh, so you’re saying there’s delinquent activities on days other than Halloween.

Jamie: Exactly. But Halloween encourages it, which is terrible, Micah!

Ben: Once…

Andrew: We’ll have to listen…

Ben: Once someone took a baseball bat to my mailbox.

[Andrew and Jamie laugh]

Ben: Like they completely…

Andrew: Really?

Ben: They seriously just completely knocked it off, right off the post.

Jamie: That’s not very nice.

[Laura laughs]

MuggleCast Mix-up

Andrew: We want to remind everyone that the MuggleCast Mix #1 was actually released on the feed earlier this week, and for that reason, we got a third of the regular downloads that we do on Episode 60, [laughs] because nobody got their latest show. So if you think – if anyone’s confused and didn’t get Episode 60, it is there. You just have to check your feed for older episodes other than the most recent one.

Show Close

Andrew: So, to contact us the P. O. Box, Ben, is located at?


PO Box 223
Moundridge, Kansas, 67107.

Jamie: But don’t send anything valuable in case his mailbox gets a baseball batted [laughs] in it again.

Ben: Yeah. Again.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew [Show Close with music in background]: We are going to get back to voicemails probably next week, if you have a voicemail question that you want to – that you want us to answer on the show. Remember to keep it under thirty seconds and try to eliminate as much background noise as possible, then call, in the United States, 1-218-20-MAGIC. If you’re in the United Kingdom you can dial 020-8144-0677. If you’re in Australia you can call 02-8003-5668. You can also Skype the username MuggleCast. And you can also email us using mugglecast at staff dot mugglenet dot com or just use the handy feedback form right there at mugglecast dot com. Once again, I’m Andrew Sims.

Ben: I’m Ben Schoen.

Jamie: I’m Jamie Lawrence.

Laura: I’m Laura Thompson.

Micah: And I’m Micah Tannenbaum.

Andrew: We’ll see you next week for Episode 62 of MuggleCast. Oh, and email us and let us know what you thought of the opening of the show. Let us know if you liked it, or not. And peace, out.

Jamie: And be cool on Halloween.

Andrew: And remember be safe.

Jamie: Don’t go Trick-or-Treating.

Andrew: Check your candy, kids.

Ben: Don’t be – don’t be morally vapid.


Jamie: I just don’t think about it.

Laura: No, if the story development is good…

Jamie: What, you mean like…

Laura: Then the movie is probably going to be good.

Jamie: Laura, do you mean like if say movie one, Harry’s 10 and if in movie three he’s 85, the character development wouldn’t be…

Laura: No, no, no,

Jamie: Wouldn’t be true to life.

Laura: I’m saying, for instance…

Jamie: He’s got a beard.

[Andrew laughs]

[Laura sighs]

Jamie: I’d love to have a beard, I would. No actually I wouldn’t.

Laura: Well then, grow one.

Andrew: He can’t.

[Everyone laughs]

Jamie: Laura, are you joking?

[Everyone laughs]

Jamie: I could not shave for a year-and-a-half and look like a baby.

[Laura and Andrew laughing]

Jamie: Actually, that is untrue. That is untrue.

Ben: Well not really.

Jamie: I’m just starting to get stubble on my neck now, that is a serious step.

Andrew: Oh my god.

Jamie: It’s like, it’s like…

Andrew: [laughing] You’re 19 and you’re just starting to get that.

Laura: That’s pretty normal.

Jamie: It’s like-

Andrew: No, it’s not.

Laura: Yeah, it is.

Jamie: Yes, it is.

Andrew: How would you know, Laura?

[Micah laughs]

Laura: Because it’s…

Jamie: Laura, Laura, Laura…

Andrew: Do you have stubble on your neck yet?

Jamie: Laura, when did you first start shaving?

Laura: Okay…

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: No, most… Okay, most guys…

Jamie: Can you wax your face, Laura? Instead of shaving?

Laura: I don’t need to wax my face.

Jamie: I don’t mean you. I don’t mean you, I mean men. Instead of shaving can you wax your face or not?

Laura: Yeah, you can get your face waxed.

Andrew: Ryan Seacrest does.

Jamie: No, I mean can you buy like strips…

Ben: No, it’s not, Laura

Jamie: …and then just put them on your face and rip them off? Can you do that?

Laura: Yeah, yeah you can.

Jamie: Really?

Laura: Yes [laughing].

Jamie: Well there you go it’s sorted then…

Andrew: [sings] You think you’ve got the stuff, telling me and anyone, it’s hard enough…”

Laura: [laughs] Andrew?

Andrew: [sings] “You don’t have to put up a fight.” [speaks] What?

Laura: Guess how many times I’ve listened to the “Saints Are Coming” on my iTunes?

Andrew: [sings] “Don’t have to always be right.” [speaks] Let me look at mine first.

Laura: [laughs] okay.

Andrew: [sings] “Take some of the punches for you tonight. Listen to me now.” [speaks] Hold on. [resumes signing] “Needed to let you know…”

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: 69 [laughs] for me. How many times for you?

Laura: 97.

Andrew: Oh my god! [sings] “And it’s still…”

[U2 plays in the background]

Laura: We should sing that song on here.

Andrew: And it’s you that ought to pick up the phone. Sometimes you can’t make it on your own.

Laura: I love the variation in your voice. How you go from like really bad opera singer to somewhat…

Andrew: Beautiful?

[Micah laughs]

Laura: [laughs] Yeah. Beautiful.

Andrew: [sings]
“All the time…”

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: Can we…

Jamie: I’m going to send children away empty handed.

Andrew: Can we make like a contest?

Laura: To see…

Jamie: What, who can be meanest?

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: No, no, no. I think it would be funny if you took a video of yourself drop-kicking a pumpkin and watching it explode.

[Everyone laughs]

Jamie: Would you also…

Andrew: It could be like a contest prize or something, [laughs] You get to see it or something.

Jamie: Would you…

Micah: But, would it be…

Andrew: So we film it so you can watch it and put it on YouTube.

Jamie: Would you also like a video of my being…

Ben: In a way…

Jamie: …carted of to the police station as well? Well Andrew for-

Andrew: Why because you broke your foot from drop-kicking a pumpkin?

Jamie: Yes, because when…

Laura: You get arrested in Britain…

Jamie: Because, because…

Laura: For breaking pumpkins?

Jamie: Because when… Yes, Andrew, because when you break your foot you get taken to the police station not the hospital.

Ben: Yeah [laughs]

[Everyone laughs]

Ben: I was going to say that.

Andrew: I meant hospital. No, seriously why would you get in trouble for drop-kicking a pumpkin?

Jamie: Because, it’s a breach of the peace. Okay, let me do a bit of history here okay?

Andrew: What?

Jamie: Let me do a bit of history okay?

Andrew: No, we don’t care for your British history.

Ben: No seriously, I want to hear this.

Andrew: It’s clearly flawed.

Jamie: It’s interesting – okay.

Andrew: Okay.

Jamie: There is – everything in England is to do with the Queen basically, okay. There is a thing called the Queen’s Peace, okay. The Queen’s Peace is being nice to everyone, there’s no war going on, there’s no trouble in the streets, okay. There is a crime – it isn’t actually on the record books as a crime, but it’s… There’s a thing called Breach of the Peace, which is a Breach of the Queen’s Peace. And you can be arrested for this thing, Breach of the Peace. So if you’re caught brawling in the streets, or if you’re caught throwing stuff or shouting at someone you’re in violation of a Breach of the Peace, so I can get arrested for that. Or, I can get arrested for harassment.

Andrew: Huh?

Jamie: All manner of things you can get arrested for.

Ben: For harassing a pumpkin?

Jamie: Yes, yes.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Harassment!

Jamie: They’re very, very sensitive pumpkins.

[Ben and Laura laugh]

Micah: But…

Laura: Would you get arrested for belting out “Proud to be an American” in the streets?

Jamie: No, no, I wouldn’t, but that’s a good idea. I’ll try it if you don’t hear from me in a few weeks, I probably….

Ben: Jamie, Jamie. Someone emailed in saying that you don’t know your own Britishness because, like you said there’s no such thing as a British accent it’s an English accent and that you should have corrected us long ago for saying British accent.

Jamie: Yeah it’s true, it’s true. Of course.

Andrew: Oh yeah, I saw that. What are you doing to us?

Laura: What? How is there no such thing as a British accent? What?

Andrew: Because apparently it’s an English accent is what they call it.

Jamie: It’s like calling it an American accent.

Jamie: It’s all dialects, you know. It’s like…

Andrew: It’s like people say you have a Jersey accent.

Jamie: Yeah, no, it’s like a…

Andrew: And that’s not a real accent.

Jamie: I don’t have an accent.

Andrew: Yes, you do.

Jamie: If you came here – no, okay fine, but if you came here and said to somebody what type of accent do you have, they’d say I didn’t have one, I just have a normal English accent.

Ben: Because, that’s because they’ve got like Cockney.

Jamie: Very good Benjamin, there is Cockney. There’s Cockney, sort of Birmingham, Welsh accents, Scottish accents, Northern accents, Geordie accents, all types of accents. It’s just like America. Yeah.

Micah: But Jamie, I’m curious though, wouldn’t the Queen be proud of you for teaching these kids a life lesson by stealing their pumpkins.

Jamie: Yes, she would. And if she isn’t, I’ll go down to the palace and…

Laura: [laughs] And drop-kick the queen?

Jamie: And drop-kick her, yeah.

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: She can land right in the river Thames and swim back and see how she likes it.

[Everyone laughs]

Jamie: Not that I have been dropped in the river Thames.

Ben: You know, I thought it was the River Thames [pronounces it ‘Thaymes’] River Thames.

Jamie: Everyone calls it the Thames [pronounces it ‘Thaymes’], first of all.

Laura: You would.

Ben: [imitating Laura] You would.

Andrew: I wouldn’t.

Ben: Andrew would probably call it the Thames [pronounces it ‘Tha-mays’].

Andrew: No, Ben, I actually – I thought it was Thames [pronounces it ‘Thaymes’] too. Okay, all right. So, what else is there to talk about.

Jamie: But yeah. Micah the Queen would be in serious trouble if she didn’t approve. Actually, should I say that? Yeah, go on then, yeah.

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: You can put that in. Put it in.

Laura: Do you think the Queen listens?

Jamie: Oh, she does, she does.

Andrew: Am I the only one…

Jamie: The Royal Podcast.

Andrew: Am I the only one…

[Micah laughs]


Written by: Micah, Adrienne, Allison, Amanda, Briana, Jessica, Judy, Margaret, Martina, Matt, Megan, Samantha, Sarah, Shannon and Shelly

Transcript 060

MuggleCast 60 Transcript

Show Intro

Andrew [Show Intro with music in background]: Because we all could use a little more love, this is MuggleCast Episode 60 for October 22nd, 2006.

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Eric’s Crackpot Theory of the Week

Andrew: Eric Scull, your crackpot theory of the week is: Dumbledore was a hairless Demiguise.

Eric: Realistically, whose beard is that long? It’s got to be – it’s got to be fake. It’s got to be a wig or maybe magically enhanced or something, but nobody’s beard is that long. Really, what you don’t know about Albus Dumbledore is that he’s been bald since birth. It’s just a character trait.

Laura: You’re supposed to be proving it, Eric.

[Kevin laughs]

Andrew: Yeah.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Did I ever prove them?

Laura: Yeah, you’re supposed to use, like, evidence to support the theory…

Andrew: Yes.

Eric: Oh!

Laura: …no matter how outrageous it is.

Eric: Right. Well, aren’t Demiguises the things that can go invisible?

Laura: Yeah…

Andrew: Yes.

Eric: Yes, well, easily without wearing an invisibility cloak. Even though they’re cut up…

Laura: Uh huh…

Eric: …and made into… They’re – they’re made into
invisibility cloaks. So I don’t know if that counts as not wearing one
if you’re wearing your own skin.

Andrew: So is that your answer? Is that the best you can do?

Eric: Well, I don’t know. What does…

Andrew: For the fans, for the listeners.

Eric: What does Chad, 15, from, you know, Arkansas think of that, who sent it in?

Andrew: It was actually Miranda, 17, of Idaho, and her points include:
Dumbledore can turn invisible without a cloak…

Eric: Yay! Hey!

Andrew: Another point; this would be a reason it’s weird that he had James’s cloak, even though he can turn invisible himself.

Eric: Ah, I didn’t think of that one.

Ben: Well, let’s get, let’s get her on the show. She can do…

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: She can do…

Andrew: Forget Eric.

Ben: …Eric’s Crackpot Theory better than Eric can. [laughs]

Andrew: Eric’s fired. [laughs]

Eric: Uh.

Andrew: He seems to be able to see through the invisibility cloaks.

Eric: Andrew, why does that make him a hairless Demiguise?

Andrew: I don’t know. [laughs]

Eric: I…

Andrew: She said, “I know, crazy, I almost had myself convinced before I realized just what I was saying.”

Welcome Back